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Geisladisk posted:They're from 1994. Them and the couple of other Eldar holdouts from that same release are literally the second oldest models sold by GW. Ya, that's about as perfect of a Skaven as you can get. Does anyone know who the sculptor was?
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Sep 6, 2023 23:02
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i wish GW credited their artists like MTG does
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Sep 6, 2023 23:24
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They used to, just flip through older WD issues and you'll see designer credits for new releases constantly. The change came around the time there was a huge backlash against Mat Ward if I remember right, after that point they stripped all out of credits. To the point of absurdum almost if you look at the recent number of interviews for the Nid codex where they insist on calling people by their first name only. GW has acquired this bizarre fright of making the people behind things recognizable. It's become really obvious with how much they've stripped down the painting videos these days. Possibly for the fear it might supersede the brand or something. Even if it's probably also to diminish the backlash they might receive, although by this point that feels a bit moot. With lots of GW figureheads having social media accounts and such. Cooked Auto fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 23:31
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Whats up with mat ward?
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Sep 6, 2023 23:32
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He was one of the writers for GW during 5th edition, who usually got a lot of flak for shoddy rules and sketchy lore. So he became a bit of a pariah and figurehead for what was wrong at GW at the time.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:35
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I can see why GW would be nervous about creating celebrities after Duncan became super popular, left, then created his own paint brand based on his reputation Edit: I think it’s dumb, myself, and that adjacent model is cool as heck
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Sep 6, 2023 23:42
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He's why everyone hates Ultramarines and is responsible for the whole Grey Knights sororitas hats incident. He was also behind the Necron reboot. His real crime was the 7e WHFB Daemons book though.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:43
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Speaking as someone who liked the unfeeling, omnicidal Necrons of Old, the new ones are a lot more fun, So every dark could has a silver lining, I guess. Even if that codex was broken as gently caress.
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Sep 7, 2023 00:31
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I prefer the formerly-new (it’s been 12 years people) necrons bc we already have one omnicidal mindless faction in nids. Plus chaos and orks are also kinda omnicidal no-negotiation types. It’s more interesting when the majority of factions have interests and can at least attempt diplomacy. Similarly the imperium is better when you have some bits of its bureaucracy that will tolerate collaboration with xenos if it’s in their best interests instead of literally everyone being a fanatic
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Sep 7, 2023 00:38
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Al-Saqr, you were not around for this, but Ward was responsible for two things that generated a lot of extremely negative reaction: 1) a lot of fluff that was extremely annoying and amateurish, including grey knights murdering sisters of battle to bathe in their holy blood as an anti-daemon measure or all space marines everywhere thinking the Ultramarines are the Best Marines Ever and saying “wow that guilliman is the best, even better than our dumb primarch” 2) a few gruesomely overpowered codexes, including a codex for Daemons of Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy (technically an “army book”) that was so insanely broken that it meaningfully contributed to the death of the game, because it was incredibly horrible to play against and because it put pressure on GW to push out 8th Edition warhammer fantasy- an edition that launched totally half-baked and was so unpopular that it led to GW deciding to axe the whole line.
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Sep 7, 2023 00:42
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Dude was also subject to death threats, so I dunno, probably a good thing GW doesn't want to put peoples names in Codex's and the like anymore.
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Sep 7, 2023 00:47
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:grey knights murdering sisters of battle to bathe in their holy blood as an anti-daemon measure This sounds extremely awesome and grimdark
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Sep 7, 2023 01:14
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It's extremely bad actually
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Sep 7, 2023 01:17
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AndyElusive posted:Ya, that's about as perfect of a Skaven as you can get. Does anyone know who the sculptor was? Jes Goodwin, reasonably sure. He did most of those second-generation Skaven Der Waffle Mous posted:He's why everyone hates Ultramarines and is responsible for the whole Grey Knights sororitas hats incident. He was also behind the Necron reboot. people get real weird about him though
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Sep 7, 2023 01:17
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Eej posted:It's extremely bad actually I mean... morally yes
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Sep 7, 2023 01:19
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No I mean it's just terrible writing in general. The Grey Knights are already incorruptible to Chaos. So to prevent Chaos from corrupting them and turning on their allies they turn on their allies to wear their blood. Couple this with his massive boner for making GKs the elitist superest marines and taking Inquisition elements from all the other Imperial factions and making them GK only, kneecapping Sisters as an army for like 10 years. It's just bad.
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Sep 7, 2023 01:27
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Sherbert Hoover posted:I mean... morally yes It was dumb from a lore perspective as well. The men of the Grey Knights could use the purity of the Sisters' blood better than they could. Also the obvious overtone that sisters were more valuable as a temporary buff than as combatants. Or as people.
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Sep 7, 2023 01:29
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Sherbert Hoover posted:This sounds extremely awesome and grimdark The entire thing was written like the Grey Knights were murdering innocent virgins to bathe in their blood in order to protect themselves from demons and it was extremely gross and weird in-universe and meta textually
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Sep 7, 2023 01:46
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It's dumb, yes. But I have a suspicion that players have come up with much dumber reasons for why a GK army would fight a Sisters army on the table top. Cease to Hope posted:Jes Goodwin, reasonably sure. He did most of those second-generation Skaven His sculpts stand the test of time and I can see why GW wouldn't immediately rush to replace every single one of them, especially that lovely stinker.
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Sep 7, 2023 01:51
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moths posted:It was dumb from a lore perspective as well. The men of the Grey Knights could use the purity of the Sisters' blood better than they could. S.J. posted:The entire thing was written like the Grey Knights were murdering innocent virgins to bathe in their blood in order to protect themselves from demons and it was extremely gross and weird in-universe and meta textually Agreed on both counts, I'm just partial to the Imperium being extremely hosed up and representing hopeless fanaticism and patriarchy.
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Sep 7, 2023 01:57
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That's all cool and good if you're part of the audience that isn't affected by the real patriarchy but as you can see it limits your potential customer base
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Sep 7, 2023 02:09
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Also only works if you explicitly write it as the fanatics and patriarchs being wrong and evil, which is not the case here. That plus it’s almost impossible to write a story about fascists where they are so hosed up that actual fascists don’t like them, you just end up writing porn for real fascists. The only real option is to make them clearly identifiable but also incredibly comically stupid and incompetent so it’s just a bunch of clowns shooting their dicks off.
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Sep 7, 2023 02:12
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Yeah I'm torn on the issue because on one hand I can separate fiction from reality in the same way that I enjoy horror movies, but it's gross to think that disgusting people are getting kicks from genuinely aligning with the worst aspects of it. It just so happens that, like horror, I find the most hosed up aspects to be fascinating parts of the setting. 
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Sep 7, 2023 02:20
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There was, arguably, a time when "killing women because they're useless non-entities with lootable purity" was a palatable concept for horror. But that was before the incel movement targeted Warhammer-aged boys and men with uncannily similar messaging. And Elliot Rogers.
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Sep 7, 2023 02:52
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You can see GW thread this needle with the Sisters reboot. They're badass humans who can wear power armour and fire Bolters without being genetically mutated like Space Marines. Their conviction and faith in the Emperor is so strong they can warp reality in their favour. They fight to protect the innocent citizens of the Imperium against the witch, heretic and mutant (they care more than the Marines do for sure). However Whoever they deem to be a heretic they strap into various torture devices that allow them to fight "for" the Imperium. They're recruited as orphans by the Inquisition so they can be molded into perfect little soldiers. They also martyr themselves constantly. So there's your fascist theocratic horror. What they did change was pull back from the titillating elements. Repentia wear shorts and a shirt now instead of leather bondage gear. Sexy impractical stilletos are out and regular boots are in. The voluptuous punished sister wearing nothing but a form fitting threadbare white robe in the penitent engine has been replaced with a screaming dude. These were all elements that existed to give dudes boners and were not actually contributing to the setting in any way.
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Sep 7, 2023 03:20
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the hosed up semana santa on mushrooms Blasphemous art style fits sisters way more than the pinup girl look does
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Sep 7, 2023 03:27
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While on the topic, the idea that Jes Godwin and other 90s sculptors were out there coming up with Sisters of Battle minis in an attempt to give boys boners sure is a thought exercise.
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Sep 7, 2023 03:37
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Men are dudes too
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Sep 7, 2023 03:45
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S.J. posted:The entire thing was written like the Grey Knights were murdering innocent virgins to bathe in their blood in order to protect themselves from demons and it was extremely gross and weird in-universe and meta textually it also just made no sense at all in the universe as established (if sisters are an 8 on the scale of Imperial Purity, Grey Knights are like a 12, why kill them, etc.) which is less of a sin than being gross and edgy, but highlights how there was no purpose to the writing except to be gross and edgy i still think he'd have gotten away with his Lore Crimes if his rules weren't so insanely hosed that they actively hastened the death of an entire 25+ year old game line as time passes there are fewer people who remember what 7th edition WHFB daemons of chaos were like, so let me state for the record that they made index eldar look tame. there was nothing in that book that was remotely ok.
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Sep 7, 2023 04:10
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I’ve been having a nice time playing crusade this summer while the those bound to the wheel are in elf hell. Administratum is not bad! One thing that’s been nice is using ChatGPT for narrative games. You can plug in a prompt like “Please write a story including a reason genestealer cults would be fighting nurgle and tzeentch daemons. The setting is a derelict power station on a hive world. The genestealers just fought off an imperial patrol. Maybe the emotions from that fight summoned daemons?” and get some really great responses. You can tell it who won and it’ll give you a description of how it happened. You can also keep your battles with one person in a thread and it’ll use information from previous battles.
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Sep 7, 2023 05:07
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:it also just made no sense at all in the universe as established (if sisters are an 8 on the scale of Imperial Purity, Grey Knights are like a 12, why kill them, etc.) which is less of a sin than being gross and edgy, but highlights how there was no purpose to the writing except to be gross and edgy That book loving ruled. It was so over the top. Every single unit in it could almost effortlessly clown on any other faction without breaking a sweat and god forbid you used a well kitted out character of literally any kind.
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Sep 7, 2023 05:10
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Tzeentch Flamers specifically had a reputation.
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Sep 7, 2023 05:42
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Tzeentch Flamers specifically had a reputation. Was it the Slaanesh stuff that had the banners of practically auto-breaking your opponent? I just remember laughing my rear end off at everything in that book
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Sep 7, 2023 05:51
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I want to run a crusade after a couple 1000 point games, what advice do you guys have if you've done it before? I think I'll wait until the space marine codex is out so now both tyranids and marines have their options.
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Sep 7, 2023 07:53
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Al-Saqr posted:I want to run a crusade after a couple 1000 point games, what advice do you guys have if you've done it before? That crusade is actually a lot of paperwork for units so just be prepared for that. If your group isn't into doing paperwork after every battle they won't actually enjoy crusade. Also, because every unit has its own permenant record file that follows it around, it can be a lot to remember. If your units down have some sort of marking to distinguish them and there's two of the same unit this can be really hard. If I have two infantry squads and one has ability A and the other has ability B they need to be identifiable in some way. This can just be by equipment, e.g. I had a 5 man CSM squad with a plasma gun and a 5 man squad with chainswords. It needs to be clear somehow though. The other thing is that if you randomly roll for abilities you can get loving dumb abilities when you level up. I rolled and my Possessed (who don't have guns) got something that improved their shooting. On the other hand if you let people pick, you run the risk of min maxing. My friends did a "roll on the table and if you get something that both players agree doesn't work, roll again". You could do a "roll 2d6 and pick one" with the same rule to get a little between total random and min maxing units. Finally it's a narrative campaign format so you need to be ready to tweak all the rules on the fly. My Word Bearers never won a single Crusade game (i played like 8 games) and just got battered. This isn't fun for anyone so we were talking about giving me some additional points of Daemons to summon in to balance the sides a bit. The players need to be working together to make the games interesting, so they need to all understand if you treat it competitively and create abominations of units using crusade rules, you'll be told those units need their abilities changed. Players who take the piss will be out. I did create a basic hive city map and rules for conquering territories etc that I shared a while back in this thread, but I ended up using more basic points systems GW provided in their campaign books. It was 1 war point per game that you won, you played each other twice (it was a small group) and the side with the most points at the end of the round won. Which leads to the final point, you need a game master who is willing to basically write the campaign and explain what is happening based on the results. People want to hear that their battles are deciding the fate of the planet/system/whatever and taking photos and writing in universe updates and stuff really gets people engaged. It's also the clear you enforce any of the other stuff I mentioned.
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Sep 7, 2023 10:15
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Cooked Auto posted:I await the day when GW turns Nottingham into the UK's first corporate town. Shame the old lore where the Golden Throne was actually situated in Nottingham got retconned. AndyElusive posted:It's dumb, yes. You know the most probably in-universe reason is small doctrinal disagreement like if Sanguinala was supposed to be in December or January. Professor Shark posted:I can see why GW would be nervous about creating celebrities after Duncan became super popular, left, then created his own paint brand based on his reputation You create people like Duncan spin off and create competing products on one hand, and you also risk creating more Tony Cottrells that you have to somehow purge. I can see why it's really a lose lose from the corporate side though more Duncans is hardly a loss to the hobby.
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Sep 7, 2023 10:20
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Kitchner posted:That crusade is actually a lot of paperwork for units so just be prepared for that. If your group isn't into doing paperwork after every battle they won't actually enjoy crusade. also use administratum to reduce a lot of it Spanish Manlove posted:i wish GW credited their artists like MTG does lmao forever that a bunch of the 40K cards were credited to "Games Workshop" including the Blanche golden throne painting
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Sep 7, 2023 10:59
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Z the IVth posted:Shame the old lore where the Golden Throne was actually situated in Nottingham got retconned. Nottingham's power grid can only handle a few dozen souls daily; Even sci-fi needs to acknowledge certain limits.
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Sep 7, 2023 11:06
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Kitchner posted:That crusade is actually a lot of paperwork for units so just be prepared for that. If your group isn't into doing paperwork after every battle they won't actually enjoy crusade. hey man thanks for the long explainer, I guess the people I'm working with are definitely not up for that sort of paperwork, so I'll just do it as stringed missions with special rules per mission based on the codex, the experience points and leveling up thing I think I could do without.
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Sep 7, 2023 11:15
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Cease to Hope posted:lmao forever that a bunch of the 40K cards were credited to "Games Workshop" including the Blanche golden throne painting Wasn't there a big hoo ha when it turned out that one of the big Magic artists had... interesting opinions and had to be cancelled?
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Sep 7, 2023 11:16
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