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Combat Pretzel posted:Yeah, what happened to that mythical powerful magic alien-infiltrated battleship anyway? Well, they reverse engineered it to create whisper ships, but unclear if it's still in one piece. I assume it must be, and this is one of the reasons Seldon is so confident Foundation can win a war with empire. But the main thing about it I'm interested in is EXO ("outside" as in the galaxy?) written in blood, for vague final book reasons.
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Sep 6, 2023 14:10
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Snowmanatee posted:Well, they reverse engineered it to create whisper ships, but unclear if it's still in one piece. I assume it must be, and this is one of the reasons Seldon is so confident Foundation can win a war with empire. But the main thing about it I'm interested in is EXO ("outside" as in the galaxy?) written in blood, for vague final book reasons. if that ship comes back Event Horizon-style I will forgive every sin of this show
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Sep 6, 2023 14:17
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Mr. Apollo posted:I’m a bit confused as to the timeline now. It may simply be that gaal/salvor/hari 1 going to the psychic people planet took place before hari 2 summoned hobber mallow and the priests. I do agree that if that's the case it's confusing that they are telling both the gaal story and the hover mallow story at the same time because it implies that both series of events are taking place at the same time.
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Sep 6, 2023 17:01
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I think they were just trying to do a twist where the gaal and Salvor stuff is just before the stuff happening with hober an constant. It's not like they are particularly connected anymore, so they could happen at any time. It could be that gaal and Salvor are way before the other story and Hari 2 just changed the speed time passes for him to wait until when he needed to do something anyway.
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Sep 6, 2023 17:37
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Cojawfee posted:I think they were just trying to do a twist where the gaal and Salvor stuff is just before the stuff happening with hober an constant. It's not like they are particularly connected anymore, so they could happen at any time. That was my take.
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Sep 6, 2023 21:00
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or Goyer just finished watching Interstellar and knew right then how to write himself out that particular paper bag.
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Sep 6, 2023 21:42
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:or Goyer just finished watching Interstellar and knew right then how to write himself out that particular paper bag. It is such a weird choice because it is replacing something no one cared about (why did the super intelligent ai that can watch the colonies pick a con man to do this job that obviously is served by a salesman) with an answer that effectively invokes a predestination paradox.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:18
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Cojawfee posted:I think they were just trying to do a twist where the gaal and Salvor stuff is just before the stuff happening with hober an constant. It's not like they are particularly connected anymore, so they could happen at any time. When Gaal and Salvor wake up they use the radiant to point out that they awoke during the second crisis and needed to guide events. It isn't some time fuckery on the Terminus side since it's a big plot point that this is the second crisis there, not some undefined future crisis. So either it's 4th dimensional fuckery and Salvor's telepathic journey arrived in the past the way Gaal telepathically travels to the future or Gaal/Salvor are just in a multi-year "Second Crisis" and their story takes place before the Terminus part of it.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:43
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Oh, Salvor does go into the past with her visions.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:47
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Rectal Death Adept posted:their story takes place before the Terminus part of it. Yes, this is what's happening. Terminus and Trantor plot lines were happening concurrently this season, but the Ignis/Mentalics story was showing "the past". Now Ignis is caught up to where the rest of the show was in the second episode.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:49
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Cojawfee posted:Oh, Salvor does go into the past with her visions. Oh yeah wasn’t that introduced a few episodes ago? Gail sees the future and Salvor sees the past?
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Sep 6, 2023 23:56
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fuckin 4th dimensional hypercubes, how do they work?
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Sep 7, 2023 00:04
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gonna laugh my buns off when ignis turns out to actually be trantor they just have gaal and salvor under some real Fuckin Brain Juice
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Sep 7, 2023 00:08
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Rectal Death Adept posted:When Gaal and Salvor wake up they use the radiant to point out that they awoke during the second crisis and needed to guide events. It isn't some time fuckery on the Terminus side since it's a big plot point that this is the second crisis there, not some undefined future crisis. The Ignis plot unfolds over a very short period of time. Salvor doesn't access the Hari in the Prime Radiant via telepathy, she communicates via the Radiantly quantum entanglement abilities. So it's the latter explanation, but not years. IIRC Gaal and Hari see an upcoming second crisis in episode 2 or 3, not that they're currently in the middle of it. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 00:50
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:or Goyer just finished watching Interstellar and knew right then how to write himself out that particular paper bag.
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Sep 7, 2023 06:38
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Last night I was finally able to catch up on the latest batch of episodes. Can I just say that "I was once worshipped like a goddess" should ring every alarm bell everywhere? Also I have the sneaking suspicion that Demerzel is not the original Asimov Secret Android but rather what Goyer extrapolated and then thought "but how can I Dune this poo poo up?". Also also: Doesn't Salvor revealing the 2nd Foundation make the entire plot point of what it does moot? Not to mention that it doesn't make any sense to have an self-evolving ai in there because the original was supposed to be a number of pre-recorded messages based on what Seldon EXPECTED to happen. This makes the entire idea of the Quantum Entanglement Math Gimmick even worse...
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Sep 7, 2023 10:26
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Well yeah, Salvor broke the rules. They're pretty explicit about that. My current read is that she effectively caused the entire divergence in the timeline they were trying to solve.
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Sep 7, 2023 10:38
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Mr.Misfit posted:Also also: Doesn't Salvor revealing the 2nd Foundation make the entire plot point of what it does moot? This is a problem characters in the show acknowledge! It was also a problem in the books at a different time, for different reasons, so not necessarily a case of Goyer writing himself into a corner.
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Sep 7, 2023 12:12
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That was an entertaining episode of tv
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Sep 8, 2023 03:46
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Things definitely happened this episode
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Sep 8, 2023 03:47
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Hober Mallow "piercing empire's hide" wasn't when he interrupted the execution with his whisper ship jump, but when he called Day yester-Day
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Sep 8, 2023 04:06
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LinkesAuge posted:My theory (and it's ofc not spoilers because none of this exists in the books): ... Looks like I got pretty close to it. Besides that: So the (First) Foundation is now destroyed? Interesting.... I have honestly no idea where they are going with all of this and how any of this has even anything to do with the whole basic concept of the books. They continue to pay lipservice to it, talk about mathematics, science etc. and yet still act like Psychohistory is deterministic (which it clearly isn't) or some sort of elaborate plan (the show underlines this "misunderstanding" by making AI Seldon an active part). Also holy wheel spinning @ the Gaal's adventure sideplot. Im between curious and afraid how that whole story is going to be relevant for the overall plot.
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Sep 8, 2023 05:07
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LinkesAuge posted:Besides that: So the (First) Foundation is now destroyed? Interesting.... No, Terminus is destroyed. It's suggested the Foundation has already become greater than its original home and survives. The captain of the Invictus says in this episode "This is the first time for a lot of us, but everyone in the company plays today." They were putting on an act--not in the sense of an illusion where Terminus survives, but convincing Day that he'd won. I'm not sure if the Invictus was also destroyed or jumped away when it hit the planet, but in any case a lot of people were sacrificed in this "performance."
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Sep 8, 2023 05:40
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Snowmanatee posted:No, Terminus is destroyed. It's suggested the Foundation has already become greater than its original home and survives. The captain of the Invictus says in this episode "This is the first time for a lot of us, but everyone in the company plays today." They were putting on an act--not in the sense of an illusion where Terminus survives, but convincing Day that he'd won. I'm not sure if the Invictus was also destroyed or jumped away when it hit the planet, but in any case a lot of people were sacrificed in this "performance." The show really hasn't established in any way that the Foundation has grown outside of Terminus, certainly not in an organised way outside of their "religion". I mean even Terminus itself STILL looks like a backwater planet/colony (which honestly did annoy me a bit, the "growth" of the Foundation as presented has been rather underwhelming). That of course doesn't mean you are wrong in that it's absolutely possible the show will pretend like there is suddenly this big ("other") Foundation out there but it would be rather hilarious (the last other Foundation effort we saw were people literally trying to lynch Foundation people...). I'm also not sure if I understand you correctly in regards to the "performance". Are you saying the whole "planet destruction" including the Invictus was just an illusion? Maybe I'm completely wrong but the whole black hole sucking up the planet thing was caused by the Invictus (and I'll of course ignore the fact that this isn't how black holes work, even if you would drop a big one in the middle of a planet) so it's definitely destroyed.
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Sep 8, 2023 06:14
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I kinda expected Terminus to have some cooler defenses.
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Sep 8, 2023 07:40
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That was some drat good tv. Really enjoyed the hand-to-hand rifle fight choreography.
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Sep 8, 2023 08:07
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Hopefully we'll see it clearer for the finale, but there were some pretty neat planet-destroying vfx on show!
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Sep 8, 2023 08:32
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“I never liked her.” lol
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Sep 8, 2023 08:55
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As the episode ended I just said "wow" like a dozen times. Fantastic effects, fantastic battling, fantastic fight choreography (which really surprised me, nobody does that poo poo right nowadays,) fantastic composition, fantastic acting... just beautiful. As far as the battle being a performance... I am pretty sure they mentioned last episode that when the Invictus warps, it creates a black hole. There is the possibility that it did actually warp as it crashed into the planet because that was always the plan. You could say Psychohistory knew that Day would want to throw it into the planet, they were always prepared for it, and the black hole left behind by a warp caused all the destruction we saw. The thing was certainly spinning the way it's supposed to when it warps and the black hole was right there inside it as it crashed. Doesn't really make sense it would form from just being shot at a bunch. Finally, perhaps the reason Terminus looked so poorly developed was because most of the actual development was happening somewhere else anyway. Maybe at the Second Foundation? But I only came up with all of that based on the suggestions in this thread, it wasn't how I viewed the actual events of the episode at all. Would've been nice to get at least a little "how did Hari survive" but I guess that'll be next episode.
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Sep 8, 2023 11:41
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DaveKap posted:As the episode ended I just said "wow" like a dozen times. Fantastic effects, fantastic battling, fantastic fight choreography (which really surprised me, nobody does that poo poo right nowadays,) fantastic composition, fantastic acting... just beautiful. I also say wow at the end of every episode, but definitely not because they're any good 
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Sep 8, 2023 15:49
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I wonder if Day would have attacked Terminus had Hober never been involved due to Salvor’s info to Hari. I also expected they would have far better defenses given all their grandstanding. Just the Invictus didn’t seem nearly enough. I’m hoping we’ll find out that was an illusion or something though to throw Empire off for a few more years/decades.
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Sep 8, 2023 18:04
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For a man who’s face is amazing all day in general, Lee Pace’s face was amazing in that final shot.
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Sep 8, 2023 19:17
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That was some fine TV. Some shots were gorgeous and the set design of Demerzel’s cell was truly like something out of a big budget movie. Having said that, the shot of Demerzel a split second before she gets un-sliced was so poo poo I think they must have left it in by accident. The whole Invictus plot this episode was incomprehensible. Did it jump? Was it destroyed? Is Poly truly blown to smithereens? Demerzel jetting off back to Trantor was because of Dusk’s sniffing around, was it?
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Sep 8, 2023 20:50
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The CG in the Demerzel scene is bad, yea, but what caught my eye more was the "stand there while we move you" shot for The Mule. Just... soooooo goofy looking for something that's supposed to be terrifying. He looks like he's wobbling back and forth.
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Sep 8, 2023 21:35
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I wholly expect this getting the two into the vault was solely to make Demerzel's inhibitor go away. Her odd behavior near the end of th episode was her finally noticing it (similar to the first act, her noticing what it does).
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Sep 8, 2023 21:36
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Combat Pretzel posted:I wholly expect this getting the two into the vault was solely to make Demerzel's inhibitor go away. Her odd behavior near the end of th episode was her finally noticing it (similar to the first act, her noticing what it does).
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Sep 8, 2023 21:37
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I wholly expect this to be a directorial oversight. Along the lines of human flesh robo Seldon suddenly undrowning. I can't wait to see them write their way out of that corner.
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Sep 8, 2023 21:52
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:I also say wow at the end of every episode, but definitely not because they're any good who is that? e: never mind, i dont care
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Sep 9, 2023 00:32
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Combat Pretzel posted:I wholly expect this getting the two into the vault was solely to make Demerzel's inhibitor go away. Her odd behavior near the end of th episode was her finally noticing it (similar to the first act, her noticing what it does). That actually explains why she didn't just murder him on the spot. She didn't hesitate to murder Dawn all those years ago, and she's supposed to be serving Empire — which none of his actions are doing imo.
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Sep 9, 2023 00:34
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Combat Pretzel posted:I wholly expect this getting the two into the vault was solely to make Demerzel's inhibitor go away. Her odd behavior near the end of th episode was her finally noticing it (similar to the first act, her noticing what it does). Her inhibitor is keyed to the person of Cleon, the assumption that it's his DNA since they are clones. I think the vault scene was Hari speaking to Demerzel the entire time even when his words seemed to be for empire. He was trying to convince her to act. And the interesting thought is that since Day's genes were tampered with she may not be inhibited from harming him, and if she is she may have subtly manipulated him to end the genetic dynasty so that she won't be inhibited from harming his offspring in the future when they take over.
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Sep 9, 2023 00:46
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