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rotor posted:types schmypes dhh's alt spotted
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Sep 9, 2023 04:28
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you know its just gonna end up as a string somewhere eventually
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Sep 9, 2023 04:30
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the thing that gets me about type brained people is that they go on and on about safety, when the actually useful thing about types is being able to do safe transformations of code, in your editor this is the wisdom imparted to me by spj
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Sep 9, 2023 04:32
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types are cool and good
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Sep 9, 2023 04:33
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also i do want to mention the paper "threesomes: with and without blame" because you need to understand that type theorists are not serious people
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Sep 9, 2023 04:33
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Shaggar posted:types are cool and good you know what's cooler than types? reflection
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Sep 9, 2023 04:34
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cant do reflection without types
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Sep 9, 2023 04:34
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Shaggar posted:cant do reflection without types idk i feel like u can but its friday and im not gonna think about it any more
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Sep 9, 2023 04:38
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if you dont have types then theres nothing to reflect on
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Sep 9, 2023 04:39
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I like reflection and good editing experiences
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Sep 9, 2023 04:42
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tef posted:you know what's cooler than types? reflection shove this in your type hole and reflect it
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Sep 9, 2023 04:42
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Shaggar posted:cant do reflection without types sure, but it's funny that reflection is usually something restricted to dynamic languages, when it's really, really useful like, go makes heavy use of reflection to handle serialization and deserialization
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Sep 9, 2023 04:42
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Bloody posted:I like reflection and good editing experiences reflection is great, big reflection fan here, but im not sure what definition of “reflection” implies strong typing
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Sep 9, 2023 04:44
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if a language is turing-complete you can't prove nontrivial properties of its programs you can write lots of interesting and even useful programs in languages that are carefully designed to not be turing-complete, and prove things about them alternatively, you can use a type system to create a simplified model of the constraints in a turing-complete program, and then prove things about that model if the type system is sufficiently powerful you wind up even worse than you started, unable to conclusively prove things about a simplified model of something you can't conclusively prove things about some type-checking is very handy, but there's a diminishing return, and you can easily invent hideously complicated problems for yourself that don't actually need to exist
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Sep 9, 2023 04:50
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bad news nerdlingers: aint no one doing proofs and poo poo
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Sep 9, 2023 04:52
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getting so mad at all of uShaggar posted:types are cool and good except for shaggar, shaggar was right
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Sep 9, 2023 04:59
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tef posted:also i do want to mention the paper "threesomes: with and without blame" because you need to understand that type theorists are not serious people without looking it up I knew this was gonna be some phil wadler horseshit
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Sep 9, 2023 05:00
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tef posted:sure, but it's funny that reflection is usually something restricted to dynamic languages, when it's really, really useful .net also uses reflection for serialization
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Sep 9, 2023 05:00
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or code generators which are like reflection except Sooner
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Sep 9, 2023 05:17
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leper khan posted:Ruby has a thing like obj-c swizzle too well yeah it’s basically just Smalltalk with much worse syntax just use Smalltalk or ObjC
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Sep 9, 2023 06:02
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Internet Janitor posted:if a language is turing-complete you can't prove nontrivial properties of its programs you can't build a general method for finding a proof that's deterministic (terminates)
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Sep 9, 2023 06:18
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tef posted:you can't build a general method for finding a proof that's deterministic (terminates) maybe we just havent tried hard enough
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Sep 9, 2023 06:20
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tef posted:the thing that gets me about type brained people is that they go on and on about safety, when the actually useful thing about types is being able to do safe transformations of code, in your editor this is why automapper drives me nuts
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Sep 9, 2023 07:20
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Internet Janitor posted:if a language is turing-complete you can't prove nontrivial properties of its programs This is wrong. It is a basic school exercise to prove soundness ("absence of crashes") for toy Turing complete typed languages. (Which I guess is a trivial property in the theoretical sense if the language is well designed.) People also prove nontrivial properties of languages written in Turing-complete languages... not all the time because it is a chore, but it's hardly never, and certainly not impossible. Rice's theorem is really not as big a problem as that. Athas fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Sep 9, 2023 |
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Sep 9, 2023 07:20
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i did meet someone who went on about determinism and proofs in software, but i found out they did total functional programming so i gotta appreciate them commiting to the bit
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Sep 9, 2023 07:31
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susan b buffering posted:this is why automapper drives me nuts the guy who wrote automapper wrote a lengthy explanation of why his company pragmatically came up with it to efficiently solve a very specific production issue in their particular codebase in the spirit of chesterton's fence, after reading that explanation i now feel vastly more confident in declaring that automapper is wrong and nobody should use it ever, including the original author and his company
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Sep 9, 2023 09:17
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been thinking a lot lately about how chestertons fence is only a useful parable if your predecessors aren’t morons with a penchant for fence building
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Sep 9, 2023 11:19
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is total function programming where you literally type a lambda on your typewriter
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Sep 9, 2023 11:53
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my homie dhall posted:been thinking a lot lately about how chestertons fence is only a useful parable if your predecessors aren’t morons with a penchant for fence building so you figured out why the fence was there
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Sep 9, 2023 13:07
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NihilCredo posted:the guy who wrote automapper wrote a lengthy explanation of why his company pragmatically came up with it to efficiently solve a very specific production issue in their particular codebase i gotta ask what the gently caress people are doing
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Sep 9, 2023 13:59
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rotor posted:bad news nerdlingers: aint no one doing proofs and poo poo This continues to make me sad on an ongoing basis. Most people don't even read papers. Bloody posted:or code generators which are like reflection except Sooner I see people code gen reflection in performance sensitive contexts and it makes me very upset.
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Sep 9, 2023 14:14
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leper khan posted:This continues to make me sad on an ongoing basis. Most people don't even read papers. hey, some of us can’t read
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Sep 9, 2023 14:28
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if reading papers is so important maybe they shouldnt all be formatted as two column pdfs that are annoying as gently caress to read on a computer or phone also they should be written in language me, a college dropout, can understand. none of these drat weird symbols either. dont know how im supposed to just remember what poo poo the half-life logo means in computers
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Sep 9, 2023 14:34
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abraham linksys posted:if reading papers is so important maybe they shouldnt all be formatted as two column pdfs that are annoying as gently caress to read on a computer or phone don't worry about it, all the good papers are behind a paywall
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Sep 9, 2023 14:48
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abraham linksys posted:if reading papers is so important maybe they shouldnt all be formatted as two column pdfs that are annoying as gently caress to read on a computer or phone  PLDI papers are single-column abraham linksys posted:also they should be written in language me, a college dropout, can understand. none of these drat weird symbols either. dont know how im supposed to just remember what poo poo the half-life logo means in computers 
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Sep 9, 2023 14:53
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NihilCredo posted:the guy who wrote automapper wrote a lengthy explanation of why his company pragmatically came up with it to efficiently solve a very specific production issue in their particular codebase yeah that article is good. thankfully replacing it is the sort of menial activity meetings were invented for
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Sep 9, 2023 14:54
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Dijkstracula posted:
parsing papers deserve a special shoutout
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Sep 9, 2023 14:58
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abraham linksys posted:also they should be written in language me, a college dropout, can understand. none of these drat weird symbols either. dont know how im supposed to just remember what poo poo the half-life logo means in computers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVyz3lWH2bA It focuses primary on how to read papers with type theory in it because Ron's a type guy - I could have sworn I'd come across a broader one but damned if I can find it now. Nonetheless it's still a good talk imho
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Sep 9, 2023 15:07
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Dijkstracula posted:Thinking about this a bit more: there have been a few talks at places like Papers We Love Conf that do a good job of explaining the basics of reading PL papers: Ron Garcia's keynote is an especially good, broad survey of "what even are all these greek symbols" gonna watch this during my ketamine infusion today, thanks
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Sep 9, 2023 16:25
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Shaggar posted:if you dont have types then theres nothing to reflect on in javascript you simply call Function.prototype.toString() then use an npm hosted library to parse the function you're "reflecting" on
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