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CubanMissile posted:But I guess when you’re the emperor of everything it’s easy to assume you’re making all the right moves.
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Sep 13, 2023 05:38
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LinkesAuge posted:I don't care about the actress, the character was just a one note villain including your typical non-sensical confrontations and dramatic "haha, I will kill you in the most idiotic way possible". It also doesn't help that she leads a cult where the showrunner can't make up their minds if all the people in it are either stupid, evil or just ignorant because what other motivation can you have to go along with what she does? What's the tl:dr because all the quotes people made of this were obviously wrong even before reading peoples response to the quotes, and its equivalent to like 3 screens of text on my phone so my brain just refuses to read it
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Sep 14, 2023 01:19
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Quixotic1 posted:Don't forget the memory archivist not really treating Dawn/Dusk with deference. One of the soldier supplying intel about Day. And the previous season the gardener being able to get close enough to damage the genetic dynasty forever, where they now have to practice eating to stay in sync. It is loving hilarious that his plan didn't include "samples of my generic data hidden and known only to Demerzel"
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Sep 14, 2023 01:26
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Quixotic1 posted:they now have to practice eating to stay in sync. Weren’t they just practicing foreign manners to appease their guest bride to be?
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Sep 14, 2023 17:20
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They were practicing staying in sync to keep up appearances around an outsider
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Sep 14, 2023 17:42
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Quixotic1 posted:Don't forget the memory archivist not really treating Dawn/Dusk with deference. That did kinda leap out at me that he was being awfully flippant to the "Guys with a life-long expectation of deference perfectly capable of ordering you shot for perceived insolence". I think I'd be practising my best customer service skills personally.
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Sep 14, 2023 21:48
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i… what???
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Sep 15, 2023 04:38
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That certainly was an interesting episode. I think they definitely did better this season than last season.
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Sep 15, 2023 05:00
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Did I miss something? How did Demrezel get the Prime Radiant? Who’s training the mentalics if they’re both asleep?
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Sep 15, 2023 05:28
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Loved it. A lot of it was stupid if I look at it objectively, but I loved the whole episode and season. Lee Pace was incredibly epic in all of his scenes and chewed the gently caress out of that scenery, especially in this finale. I'm glad they really leaned into the spectacle of it all. I can't remember the last show that had such a good turnaround from season 1 to 2, but I am very excited for 3.
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Sep 15, 2023 06:00
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Computer, generate three nude Cleons. I took the bit about The Sleeper to mean they would be waking up, not every year perhaps, but enough to keep the
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Sep 15, 2023 06:29
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Season two owned. Season three might even own harder. A good show.
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Sep 15, 2023 06:38
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CubanMissile posted:Did I miss something? How did Demrezel get the Prime Radiant? Who’s training the mentalics if they’re both asleep? I think Foundation 1 Hari gave her the prime radiant last episode.
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Sep 15, 2023 06:58
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Cojawfee posted:I think Foundation 1 Hari gave her the prime radiant last episode.
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Sep 15, 2023 07:11
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Caros posted:With respect, this feels like an issue with you not really getting subtext with regards to the empire declining. You imply subtext that the show simply doesn't have, I can't be bothered to reply to everything but this point makes it really funny after the finale ep: quote:We have tons of signs of empires decline in both dialogue and in world building. Empire sent fourteen ships to terminus. They sent hundreds, possibly thousands to sanction anachreon and thespis. Because that big old fleet ain't what it used to be. I guess while you were looking for subtext the show didn't communicate to you that it wasn't just fourteen ships so yeah this is now kinda funny to read. Also @ finale ep: This was "Exposition - the show" with so many moments where characters have to explain what happened, why things happened, how they were set up behind the scenes etc. It was a finale devoid of any real tension and its pacing was just all over the place, not to mention that the decline of the Empire is more and more just the result of active intervention by the Foundation (Seldon himself) instead of being a result of societal forces. This show is so worried about creating mysteries and having "twist" moments that it forgets to tell an engaging story on the way. So many parts of this finale didn't have a proper setup because they decided to hide information from the audience and then we get characters clumsily explaining what they feel and what happened... I also can't stress enough that the Vault is now just space magic that can do anything. I have no idea why or how the Vault is such powerful technology and why it wouldn't have been used far earlier and in other ways a lot more. It is the ultimate MacGuffin and Deux Ex Machina rolled into one. PS: "Timetravel" with Gaal has of course to continue because the show needs its chosen one and just making it more and more obvious that humanity apparently can only be saved with this single individual around. Maybe the Cleon line should be replaced by the Gaal line, I mean she seems to be that perfect leader everyone needs and that the Foundation can't exist without (no thematic issues here at all). LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Sep 15, 2023 |
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Sep 15, 2023 08:58
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Vault is a 4d object, empire FTL uses a singularity to transit a 4d space, being able to intercede in that space kinda makes sense  Still complete Deux Ex Machina
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Sep 15, 2023 11:20
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It's an entertaining show and I look forward to it but there's a lot to the overarching plot I really dislike. All these twists and mysteries are just not interesting or engaging to me so in that sense a lot of my problems with it is more about the genre than the show. The departure from the central plot in the books is staggering - it's just silly they tried to cram these kinds of hero types around whom everything revolves into this story. Psychohistory now let's you see the future and dispatch people to manipulate it. In the books the first 2 crises are resolved by stopping fighting and let it work itself out according the predictions of psychohistory. The rise and development of the Foundation through stages and crises is also mangled. It was Initial aurvival, Religion, Trade, Empire and Aristocracy with the Mule upsetting the plan between Empire and Aristocracy. Season 1 was stage and crisis 1. Now the Foundation is at the religion stage but the crisis is Empire but also traders were important to the solution. And we're timejumping specifically anticipating to confront the mule.
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Sep 15, 2023 11:33
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Welsper posted:Vault is a 4d object, empire FTL uses a singularity to transit a 4d space, being able to intercede in that space kinda makes sense The problem isn't just the technology, it's what it implies. How did Seldon get access to it, where did it come from and why does noone else have it? It just feels out of place, like it was some alien ancient artifact, not something that was produced by the Empire itself but I guess we just have to accept that Seldon is now such a genius he developed and constructed(!) all of this on his own and also managed to keep it a secret. But even if we ignore that, why wasn't it used in other situations like this? Just think back to the events of season 1... I also have no idea why this plan of destroying Empire's fleet had to wait for this specific moment. There is no context or reason given why this couldn't have happened A LOT earlier in the story. The Spacers are in the same situation as they were when the show started and even if we ignore that, WHY did we have to sacrifice Terminus? There was nothing about this plan that required this to happen. If the Spacers have to sacrifice themselves in any case then why does it matter that the fleet is in one place and why did they bother defending the planet at all? As far as the show communicates it the Spacers are in control of where ships are going. They could have collectively flown the whole Empire fleet into space objects at any other time too and the Empire literally couldn't do anything about it. This whole "plan" just falls apart if you just think about it for a second, not to mention the fact that the Spacers and their complete control over space travel were a bad idea to begin with because it meant a space travel monopoly for Empire and thus no chance/opportunity for other factions to arise as (military) threat. I mean how does an Empire at a galactic scale fall apart if it has a complete monopoly over the means to wage effective wars? The only way would be through internal struggle and in a way we get that with the Spacers but it's just too simple/easy so you wonder why this hasn't happened before and why they didn't even put in any effort to show growing resentment towards Empire. It also once again fails on a thematic level because this "Spacer Rebellion" wasn't linked to a declining Empire, it was linked to them basically being Slaves but that's a situation which apparently has existed for eternity. Good writing would have used the Spacers in a much more nuanced way. Don't let them be an outright monopoly, just something that gives Empire a big edge in space travel. That would still allow other factions in a reasonable way and thus as military threat. From that you get rebellions/conflicts at the edges of the Empire, conflicts Spacers are involved in and where they suffer increasingly more casualties because Empire keeps throwing them at that problem. You can even have Empire demand a lot more Spacers in these war times than they were needed before and thus the increased pressure of needing more and more Spacers for the ever escalating conflicts leads to a situation where the Spacers just have enough (ie the decline of the Empire is reflected in how Spacers are treated). Now they don't need to conveniently destroy the whole fleet of Empire (which is just ridiculous on so many levels), they just need to stop their support for Empire and now Empire's military loses its biggest advantage which in turn means the ongoing conflicts are now an even bigger problem. All of this also plays A LOT nicer with the idea of Psychohistory (and is something you could actually reasonably predict) because now it's all a result of a bigger political/military development over a certain period instead of a single event where suddenly the whole status quo is turned upside down because Seldon directly had his hands in it (the show doesn't even address it but after the destruction of the whole Empire fleet just think how disruptive that is to everything and what the implication is if Spacers and the Foundation are the only two factions who effectively control the means for space travel). DaveKap posted:I have thoughts that I'll post later but for now I'll just say I wish the fight choreographer and director did a better job of not cutting Day's fight every 2 seconds and Hari mansplaining to Gaal with bad dubbing as she's weeping next to him made me laugh really hard. The show just loves its useless, overindulgent narration and overexplaining every single little moment, even emotions and obvious thoughts need to be conveyed through narration. The show has neither trust in its audience nor in its own ability to convey these things. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Sep 15, 2023 |
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Sep 15, 2023 12:17
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I have thoughts that I'll post later but for now I'll just say I wish the fight choreographer and director did a better job of not cutting Day's fight every 2 seconds and Hari mansplaining to Gaal with bad dubbing as she's weeping next to him made me laugh really hard.
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Sep 15, 2023 12:18
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Computer, generate 3 nude Cleons
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Sep 15, 2023 14:59
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I'm golf clapping and furious at the same time.
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Sep 15, 2023 15:36
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The mule is Demerzel in a new skin, because attempting to understand the prime radiant drove her mad. Calling it. --edit: Wait, scratch that, he talked about dreams. Changing it to Escapist's Dawn lovechild.
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Sep 15, 2023 17:23
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It's possible that the technology had existed before but was just lost and waiting to be rediscovered. It seems like the technology empire has is old and they don't like people coming up with new things. So Hari leaves with the foundation and allows people to do whatever which lets them make great progress in terms of wacky machines.
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Sep 15, 2023 17:34
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Snowmanatee posted:Computer, generate 3 nude Cleons WHAT THE
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Sep 15, 2023 17:52
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more accurate statement is: computer generated three nude cleons
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Sep 15, 2023 18:14
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rip brother day, your attempts at diplomacy were undone by your having no chill whatsoever, just the most aggro bro ever.
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Sep 15, 2023 18:27
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spoiler alert: he was never actually interested in diplomacy…
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Sep 15, 2023 18:59
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The more roles I see him in, the harder it is to imagine a fully hinged Lee Pace anyway.
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Sep 15, 2023 19:01
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Man it would feel good to deck that guy without worrying about everyone you’ve ever loved dying.
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Sep 15, 2023 19:42
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LinkesAuge posted:You imply subtext that the show simply doesn't have, I can't be bothered to reply to everything but this point makes it really funny after the finale ep: The whole first 15m or so I kept thinking, you know what this episode feels like? If a new (or long-absent) writer comes in, looks around the room, sees the existing writers have written themselves into three or four corners, and rolls up his sleeves and says "OK let's just say a wizard did that and this guy was mind controlled and this lady was doing a comedy routine and was just pretending. Subplots all tied up. OK now that that's all squared away, let's final episode of Twin Peaks this poo poo" "That's why you were acting strange!" Lol my rear end But the whole rest of the episode owned. Proper 2001 vibes
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Sep 15, 2023 22:28
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So. Farewell then, Brother Day. You had almost absolutely zero chill, But now you’re chilling, At almost absolute zero
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Sep 15, 2023 23:14
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Sadly, that was off the rails bad. They could have stuck the landing - there was enough good this season to lean on! Instead, we got some horrible tropes (Tellem spawning into the boy’s body, Salvor diving for the bullet and just purely bad and banal dialogues (Gail and Seldon Deux on the rocks). They completely gave up on explaining the Trantor plot line. I think those here who raised their eyebrows when it was revealed the whole “Bring me Hober Mallow” thing was thought of first and the rest written around it were on the money about the writing room being perhaps a bit poo poo. The Vault is magic! There, done! New depth for Demerzel was interesting. There’s potential there. There were some good parts. Lee Pace just owns. Hober and the captain going down with the ship was poignant and stretched just long enough to not overstate its welcome… too much. As much as I love the three Cleons, this plot line was evolving to an interesting conclusion and then they just decant three new ones. Oh, okay. Unless these characters are going to evolve significantly - like have their genetics deteriorate so badly that in 160 years Day looks like that Spanish in-bred prince - I don’t want to see the same old same old for the third season. The Mule again looks like a coked out meth addict sitting in a poorly lighted room and now his eyes glow? Okay… I’m not sure I give a poo poo Again, a shame - failing to pick up the good beats and just dropping the ball.
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Sep 16, 2023 00:12
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Strong "They're on Dantooine" vibes this episode
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Sep 16, 2023 02:19
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I actually liked this episode and in general the season despite hating what the first season did to my boy. I guess the offense of ruining a chance at an actual "Foundation" adaptation wore off and this became it's own thing. It's why we actually have things to discuss this season. Mokotow posted:The Vault is magic! There, done! I will admit in all of the speculation that Terminus was a sacrifice or a trick and people mentioning the castling technology (which would have needed to swap with people from the fleet and be noticeable) I did not consider the possibility of the magic space coffin using unmentioned star trek teleporters to grab everyone except hober mallow and the admiral. That was a bit out of left field that there is now an infinite-on-the-inside 4D space polygon out there beaming people up and cloaking. Before that reveal the only real possibility was that Hari just let Terminus die for The Plan(tm) So I guess good job writers for pulling something surprising out of your asses
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Sep 16, 2023 03:13
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Rectal Death Adept posted:I actually liked this episode and in general the season despite hating what the first season did to my boy. I guess the offense of ruining a chance at an actual "Foundation" adaptation wore off and this became it's own thing. It's why we actually have things to discuss this season. I don't think it's cloaking, I just think the exterior is Small Enough. Space is pretty big even a huge object like that would be tiny at orbital distance tbh. Hope or whatever her name is (Grace? umm) was drifting for quite a while before the ships met.
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Sep 16, 2023 03:40
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Mokotow posted:New depth for Demerzel was interesting. There’s potential there. I think you’re missing two interesting bits here. First we have a rogue Empire with its own lineage out in space.. That will surely come back to setup a conflict about who has power. Plus Demerzel is different now. Both from our perspective as the audience, but also she now has the prime radiant and may use it as tool to impact and improve Empire. Plus how will she reconcile her programming when there are two equally valid claims to the Throne? Lastly Empire no longer has access to jump technology via Spacers. Maybe they will get their own whisper ships, but the decline will happen faster now as the outer planets are literally unreachable. — Overall, lots of tied up storylines (some a bit too handwavy) but I’m excited to see where they go now. Season 1 set the table, season 2 was the feast.
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Sep 16, 2023 04:14
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It was the first time I've ever heard that saying and now I keep asking myself "Do frogs have watertight assholes?"
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Sep 16, 2023 06:13
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same page club
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Sep 16, 2023 06:15
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Cleon the Number: *genocides entire planet* Belagusi, righteously: This has gone on exactly long enough!
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Sep 16, 2023 09:12
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 14:29 |
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I think I liked that! Did I really enjoy that? It's still so uneven, but I've had a really good time with these last episodes. I'm not sure how much of that is just the aura of charisma surrounding Lee Pace, because the moment-to-moment stuff required a lot of suspension of disbelief, but when the scene is over I'm left thinking how much fun that was. Hober Mallow's reveal feels a little too pat after we saw the Spacers reject him a few episodes back, and Constant explaining how the whole plan went down felt like something out of Scooby-Doo, but I still enjoyed it! Similar feelings about Bel Riose thinking to put the castling device on Day while they were fighting, I guess on the hope that they'd make their way over to the airlock and Day would kick him out rather than just finish throttling him to death. And all the naval personnel on all the ships just kinda emotionlessly sitting there waiting for their ships to blow up (or how triumphant Riose was when he'd just consigned every single one of his men to certain death, which I've been led to believe would make a General feel kinda bad about himself.) But, again, at the end, felt really cool! Phenotype fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Sep 16, 2023 |
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Sep 16, 2023 15:05
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