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The thing with ammo in PD3 is that you don't start with full ammo. Like if you drop a bag right at the start of the mission you have to grab 2 ammo pickups out of it to have full ammo - or you can go bust into security rooms and take it from there or whatever. You start at about 1/3 full. If you drop the bag right at the start and your team fills up their ammo, or you prioritize filling up on in-mission ammo, then you have more than enough to make it through the whole mission (combined with pickups) unless you're sticking around way after the final assault. If there was a skill to just start with full ammo it would ameliorate the whole ammo scarcity thing deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Sep 24, 2023 |
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Sep 24, 2023 19:01
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Coolguye posted:the turning point in the ammo economy really came when they had the weapons that only could be replenished by the ammo bag (like the RPG) and if you had one of those, you got double pickups on your other weapon. this enabled all sorts of fun stuff like the torgue build, but also made it clear how much better the game played when you had a reliable standoff weapon. Yea once ammo-neutral-or-better weapons were an option, that became kind of the minimum litmus test for a weapon being viable, and the whole system kind of reoriented around that and we wound up with a totally different game state.
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Sep 24, 2023 19:09
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Payday 2 at the beginning was definitely a lot more tactical and health/ammo scarce like Payday 1 and now 3. It was only once perk decks and skills with health and ammo regen came onto the scene, along with stuff like AP/explosive rounds trivalizing shields, and plenty of other game breaking stuff, that it became more like a Diablo-esque greater cop rift, but there were also some other funny changes that happened over its history, like how suppressors were a bit more 'realistic' in that they didn't completely neutralize the sound and you would still alert plenty of close-by people with a suppressed shot (for example, shooting someone in the back of the jewelry store would pretty much alert the entire store, making it pointless). It was only after some time that they patched the suppressors to be more in line with game/movie logic, aka completely silent.
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Sep 24, 2023 19:55
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SHITS hosed AGAIN. I almost had pubbies fully stealth the bigger bank 
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Sep 24, 2023 20:34
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In terms of higher difficulties the Sharpshooter tree is definitely going to be key. There is a perk that does bonus damage off your scope magnification, which can be good, but moreso there's perks for both ignoring distance when calculating headshot damage and also to increase armor penetration. I did a very hard run to test them out and I was shooting armored SWAT from half a building away with my AK and taking them down in two shots, rather than the three or four it might take otherwise.
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Sep 24, 2023 20:35
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deep dish peat moss posted:The thing with ammo in PD3 is that you don't start with full ammo. Like if you drop a bag right at the start of the mission you have to grab 2 ammo pickups out of it to have full ammo - or you can go bust into security rooms and take it from there or whatever. You start at about 1/3 full. I think you start with half your spare ammo. So if you’re using the micro uzi which is 25/200, you start with 25/100. The ammo skill that gives you 20% more reserve doesn’t change the starting amount. Resource scarcity in general will be less of a problem as time goes on. If everyone on the team spends two points in tank for the double armor pickup, one bag carries 12 chunks. The final ammo skill is really good as well, it helps the stretch the ammo bag and can give your team 18-30 extra grenades. For medical, the skill that gives double medpacks on trade should give you more than enough when combined with a doc bag Of course this all requires coordination before the heist, which is impossible unless you’re using voice. After matchmaking, the first thing they need to fix is the team ready screen. Right now it doesn’t reflect what you’re actually carrying. Changing loadout names would help as well. I came up with MATS (medical, ammo, tank, sentry) to remember which loadout has which gear
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Sep 24, 2023 20:36
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I played Payday 2 most intensely during its first 3 years and then just kind of dipped in and out for a couple heists a year after that, and its been interesting to see the balance shifts. The sniper pack in particular was a radical change to the game at the time, since it allowed you to do something about shields that were blocking doorways (shield punching was an option but generally considered a less than ideal use of skill points, grenades existed but were considered kind of lackluster in comparison). One that's been kind of funny has been the ascent of dragon's breath, since it was received so poorly on its initial release. And like to be clear I'm largely a fan of the maximalist cop killing version of the game, I think that kind of pulpy fantasy gameplay is rarely so well realized or fun (I do not like Vermintide), but it was also an iterative process and honestly part of why I'm thinking I might sit out payday 3 for a few years to let it simmer and grow.
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Sep 24, 2023 20:37
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this matchmaking poo poo is getting old af
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Sep 24, 2023 20:50
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CuddleCryptid posted:In terms of higher difficulties the Sharpshooter tree is definitely going to be key. There is a perk that does bonus damage off your scope magnification, which can be good, but moreso there's perks for both ignoring distance when calculating headshot damage and also to increase armor penetration. I did a very hard run to test them out and I was shooting armored SWAT from half a building away with my AK and taking them down in two shots, rather than the three or four it might take otherwise. Gunslinger, sharpshooter, mower, and enforcer all have some wild combat utility once you start paying attention to keeping edge running. I’m using the AR SMG and revolver with gunslinger and mower skills. Just swapping weapons for edge gives better hip fire, less recoil, and heavy stagger in addition to the damage bonus. Headshots refresh it too
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Sep 24, 2023 20:58
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Tulip posted:One that's been kind of funny has been the ascent of dragon's breath, since it was received so poorly on its initial release. i mean on release dragon's breath didn't activate overkill which is the pillar of shotgun builds so it was always just too much of a trade off to really feel worth it. that as well as the ammo pickup penalty that completely nullified walk-in closet or fully loaded aced just made it not that great or fun to use. once both of those things were fixed and changed it became absurdly good
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Sep 24, 2023 21:02
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there's definitely a gamefeel of maximal cop murder in PD2 that is not replicated anywhere else, but feeling like an actual heisting team is also something that currently just flat out isn't anywhere so i can appreciate an attempted return to PD1's platonic ideal. stealth in PD2 was about shock therapy and memorization more than any kind of stealth fundamentals simply because the stealth mechanics were super janky and unreliable. every new map was basically about optimizing around those quirks, and if you deviated from that optimal path, the general wisdom was simply "reset". you're not a heist team at that point, you're a pack of machine-learning automatons. assuming they can fix their drat game before the internet as a whole writes it off and stops caring i can honestly see pd2 and pd3 coexisting in that way, at least for a while. if you want to make a cop carpet, you load up payday 2. if you want to heist, you load up payday 3.
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Sep 24, 2023 21:20
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PD2 stealth is dreadfully bad, yes. Press 3 to enter stealth mode indeed.watho posted:i mean on release dragon's breath didn't activate overkill which is the pillar of shotgun builds so it was always just too much of a trade off to really feel worth it. that as well as the ammo pickup penalty that completely nullified walk-in closet or fully loaded aced just made it not that great or fun to use. once both of those things were fixed and changed it became absurdly good Last time I was playing PD2 the optimal build were DB crit builds, and I found them incredibly powerful but also not at all an option when DB first came out on account of crit builds not really existing.
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Sep 24, 2023 21:33
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I don't understand why pub teams are so obsessed with trying to stealth the nightclub. Like yeah you don't get the money if you don't, but this game throws so much money at you that you can effortlessly buy every single thing that unlocks. It can't be that they care about the stealth challenges because no one cares on any of the other maps but every time I try to pub the nightclub mission it's an exercise in restarting the first 1-2 minutes over and over and over. I just want to get the challenge for beating the map in the first place  It's fun starting out stealth and being flexible if you get caught, but it's not fun restarting a mission when stealth fails 
deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Sep 24, 2023 |
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Sep 24, 2023 22:39
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deep dish peat moss posted:I don't understand why pub teams are so obsessed with trying to stealth the nightclub. Like yeah you don't get the money if you don't, but this game throws so much money at you that you can effortlessly buy every single thing that unlocks. It can't be that they care about the stealth challenges because no one cares on any of the other maps but every time I try to pub the nightclub mission it's an exercise in restarting the first 1-2 minutes over and over and over. I just want to get the challenge for beating the map in the first place There just isn't really a reason to play that map besides stealth, since the payout drops by a lot if you go loud. If you want it to be done to be done and you aren't paying Overkill then you can do it solo fine, like with most maps.
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Sep 24, 2023 22:51
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everything's made up and the points don't matter
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Sep 24, 2023 22:55
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There are separate challenge progression tracks for Stealth and Loud on every map, so the point in playing the nightclub mission without stealth is to get experience that you can't get when everyone's trying to stealth it
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Sep 24, 2023 22:58
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The way I did the nightclub was solo-stealth getting the VIP passes and then stumbling my way into getting the accountant into the room with the "crypto wallet." Then I realized I had to mask up to grab him because the door closed and I was gonna get made (so I shoved him against the lock again, despite the handler saying we had to do some other bullshit instead to open the door), which meant then also having to pacify everyone else outside the room. It went surprisingly smoothly (though there were a few tight moments). I threw the wallet into the drop-hole, then went back for some of the bags of coke. Then someone wandered down from upstairs, saw all the tied-up people, sounded the alarm, things went loud, I threw the 3 bags of coke on the bots and ran up to try and shuffle the 3 gear bags up to the roof. I didn't make it very far. However, I did manage to solo stealth the first bank and jewelry store (+workshop/clean jewels, +vault), so I accomplished something today. Fifty Farts fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Sep 24, 2023 |
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Sep 24, 2023 23:32
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Imo if you are going for stealth then get out as soon as you physically can because there isn't a "bonus" for XP or money other than just completing the challenges and you usually have way too much cash anyways.
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Sep 24, 2023 23:38
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I will vote to restart if stealth fails in the first 3-5 minutes otherwise gently caress it
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Sep 24, 2023 23:40
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CuddleCryptid posted:Imo if you are going for stealth then get out as soon as you physically can because there isn't a "bonus" for XP or money other than just completing the challenges and you usually have way too much cash anyways. Okay, but it was my first time through and I was doing surprisingly well. You can't blame a guy for wanting to get a little more - the coke was already bagged up and waiting! I was just getting the wallet out first because it was the Main Objective.
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Sep 24, 2023 23:44
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You can also buy up to 160 of the secondary currency per week, and it gets steep the more you buy. Go for high cash missions since no one's going to run out of things to spend it on for a while
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Sep 25, 2023 00:31
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padijun posted:Go for high cash missions since no one's going to run out of things to spend it on for a while In looking at what's available to purchase in the menus i have already run out of things to buy because everything other than new guns kinda sucks. Edit: is there a way to stealth the first jewelry store and get the loot from the showroom? ZeusCannon fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 00:41
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ZeusCannon posted:In looking at what's available to purchase in the menus i have already run out of things to buy because everything other than new guns kinda sucks. Yeah there's not a lot of great customization options in there. The store itself is pretty barren for a game all about amassing as much money as you can.
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Sep 25, 2023 00:44
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ZeusCannon posted:In looking at what's available to purchase in the menus i have already run out of things to buy because everything other than new guns kinda sucks. Maybe if you’re very lucky. Close the shutters on the windows, have everyone move hostages away from the door, pray that no one comes in.
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Sep 25, 2023 00:48
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ZeusCannon posted:In looking at what's available to purchase in the menus i have already run out of things to buy because everything other than new guns kinda sucks. Get the perk that gives you rush and the one that causes civs to ignore you doing illegal actions if you have rush. Bonus points if you can hack the cameras to loop. Then you can freely cut open the display cases in front while in casing mode and chuck the bags in the back room, so long as you keep an eye on the guards. You should have someone masked to get the store manager into the back room in order to open up the workshop for the scanner.
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Sep 25, 2023 01:58
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Not sure if anyone else got the "OG American Dream" mask from linking your payday 2 game but lol:
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Sep 25, 2023 03:21
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Also I found something that's non-obvious, if you hack a camera and turn it away from your friends, it doesn't detect them. In certain rooms, if the cameras are next to each other in the scroll order, you can keep 2-3 cameras pointed at the ceiling at a time.
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Sep 25, 2023 03:30
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Got the friends together to play tonight and matchmaking is hosed again, lol.
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Sep 25, 2023 03:32
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ZeusCannon posted:In looking at what's available to purchase in the menus i have already run out of things to buy because everything other than new guns kinda sucks. well I'm gonna buy a bunch of different gloves
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Sep 25, 2023 04:47
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Today was almost unplayable after around 1pm pst. Matchmake errors even on solo. Yesterday I didn’t have a single error. I like what I see so far. Reminds me of barebones pd2. Wish there was a Ukrainian job or 4 stores mission as a quick shooting gallery, Maybe there is? I have only done the first 4 or 5 missions. Armored transport seems like the best bet. Aiming on controller feels the same as before and there is auto aim. Where the hell is the JP36 though???! Houston being out is my biggest disappointment tbh. Whoever the moron is that made pickup with X is close second. dpad up to yell will take some time to adjust. Flash bangs seem super good. Safe cracking is awesome and stressful. Haven’t leveled up to see if loud ecm jammers are useful yet. A lot to love with this one though. Every game I’ve been in was guns blazing from the start.
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Sep 25, 2023 06:06
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ZeusCannon posted:In looking at what's available to purchase in the menus i have already run out of things to buy because everything other than new guns kinda sucks. Yes, but it required Go Bank like coordination, that is, two people loot the everloving poo poo out the back and the VIP area and two people start with a well timed control of the main area, move the hostages to the back, and control any additional civilians, which will spawn indefinitely. We managed it with uh around 25 hostages, the only guard left was the one that roams the basement, got all the bags scanned and delivered into the van. Closing doors and grabbing people by the throat do a lot of good for this mission. It is faster to grab and throw someone than to wait for their "get down on the floor" animation to play out. Hillarously, if you fail at any point and create a chain reaction of hostages outside the store, some of them run into the street, only to be obliterated by cars that start ZOOMING once the police are bound to arrive.
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Sep 25, 2023 07:02
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There are some map design choices that I question, along with where the cops spawn and come from. I remember when the assault was about to begin, you could see cops massing outside, getting ready. In this one, I step outside and see no cops. Turn around and the bank is full of them. Does the game just spawn them in there?
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Sep 25, 2023 10:41
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There are monster closets like elevator shaft and such where they can spawn
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Sep 25, 2023 10:46
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Cops sometimes evaporate though, I've seen that most with security guards. The guard in the low alley at the jewelry store is most susceptible to this; I don't know if he just sprints through the door he's guarding at some intervals but he seems to just disappear entirely on a regular basis.
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Sep 25, 2023 12:40
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ZeusCannon posted:In looking at what's available to purchase in the menus i have already run out of things to buy because everything other than new guns kinda sucks. So If you have the grifter and infiltrator perks you can just pick the locks while in casing mode right infront of the civs, you just have to watch for the guard/camera. The civs don't care about you carrying bags.
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Sep 25, 2023 12:51
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So, when do you earn skillpoints? It doesn't seem to corelate with any of my levels, challenges or heist completion.
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Sep 25, 2023 13:03
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quote:PAYDAY 3 matchmaking infrastructure has not performed as tested and expected. Matchmaking software encountered an unforeseen error, which made it unable to handle the massive influx of players. The issue caused an unrecoverable situation for Starbreeze’ third-party matchmaking partner. Jesus. Well that explains why it was hosed again last night when we all went to play. Pretty sure my friends are done trying at this point, it's a gamepass game so it's just as easy to drop as it is to pick up. explosivo fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 13:26
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Kikas posted:So, when do you earn skillpoints? It doesn't seem to corelate with any of my levels, challenges or heist completion. It's driven by levels but since you only get 21 points total (iirc) it isn't every level.
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Sep 25, 2023 14:04
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explosivo posted:Link Kids, this is why you don't do a live deploy on a weekend. Yeah the saving grace is that since it's all tied to Nebula, the Gamepass progress will translate to Steam if you decide to buy it for yourself there. Which I probably will, once they introduce some more fixes (or christmas bonus comes early).
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Sep 25, 2023 14:08
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Imo a large part of why they got screwed with the release date is because they did the "3 days early with deluxe pre-order" thing. Either the pre-order was going to be started on the weekend or the regular version was, and they likely felt that they had hammered out the issues during pre-order where it would be okay for release. There's also the concern for the pre-order itself; if it had gone down it likely would have been a Big Problem because it's not false advertising to have a game release have issues, but if you promise "give us cash and you can play during this specific window" and then you *can't* then that can land you in legal hot water. Especially in Europe where they take consumer protections seriously.
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Sep 25, 2023 14:36
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