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Ol' Limber Legs posted:Well, not quite almost. But I knew I was out as soon as the GM straight up told me he was looking to make a $4000 profit on the car. A fuckin 2023 even! So yeah, a crazy waste of my Sunday afternoon. I guess the main impetus for my original post was "is this just how it is now?" My wife bought new from the previous ownership of this dealership in 2012 and 2017 and got great deals. Maybe I just need to send her to buy me a car, heh. Stuff like this is why I've never managed to own a Toyota, even pre-pandemic I'd walk into a Toyota dealer, get told "the price is a couple grand over MSRP and if you don't like it you can blow it out your rear end" and then I'd leave. Apparently customers are lining up for that anyway, so I guess I'll just never experience the joys of Toyota ownership. Edit: this was in Gulf States Toyota territory, apparently Southeast Toyota is even worse. Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 01:47
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depends on your dealer. where i got my tacoma trd in peak covid shortage made a point of sticking to MSRP while other dealers in the area had 10k markups
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Oct 3, 2023 01:48
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Twerk from Home posted:Stuff like this is why I've never managed to own a Toyota, even pre-pandemic I'd walk into a Toyota dealer, get told "the price is a couple grand over MSRP and if you don't like it you can blow it out your rear end" and then I'd leave. What do you mean "never managed"? Are you talking about a shopping timeframe that includes BEFORE the pandemic? If so please be a lot more specific about where and if you were only shopping for things like Land Cruisers or other specialty vehicle/packages? Because this does not sound like a regular toyota dealership thing.
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Oct 3, 2023 01:49
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mariooncrack posted:Still better than a $40k Altima this was honestly getting in to 40k altima territory, only the 40k altima was in like 2017 dollars or whatever
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Oct 3, 2023 01:58
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Motronic posted:What do you mean "never managed"? Are you talking about a shopping timeframe that includes BEFORE the pandemic? If so please be a lot more specific about where and if you were only shopping for things like Land Cruisers or other specialty vehicle/packages? The last car searches that we talked pricing with Toyota dealers would have been in 2013 and 2017 in Texas, and we were looking at super-base economy cars including the Corolla and Prius c. We ended up buying deeply discounted Fords instead, both of which turned out to have drivetrains so unreliable and prone to complete failure that they both have huge class action lawsuits going on right now. Focus with the DPS6 and Fiesta with the 1.0L Ecoboost 3-cyl, so maybe the expensive Toyotas would have been a better bet anyway. Are you in a market served by Toyota Corporate? I hear that things are much better in those territories. Gulf States Toyota basically made sure that every car was loaded with tons of those bullshit dealer extras, and the dealers had already been worked over by the distributor so they couldn't just write them off: https://money.cnn.com/2008/03/11/news/companies/taylor_toyota.fortune/index.htm quote:Gulf States Toyota plays the game slightly differently, but the result is just the same. An FJ Cruiser it shipped to a Texas dealer recently was loaded up with a $2,251 "Extra Mile Option Package" that included such questionable features as a "door sill enhancement" and "custom tape stripe." Then came the "Vehicle Shield Package" at $349 with "lusterizing sealant," "sound shield," and "sealant cleaner." These are the kind of charges that give dealers a bad name. All of that helped jack up the price of the FJ Cruiser from a reasonable $24,135 to an exorbitant $32,873. Edit: At this point, the secret is out and the forums are full of people saying "Just fly to a Northern state if you want to buy a Toyota" which just seems like an insane amount of effort for an appliance car: https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/buying-a-toyota-from-dealers-served-by-gulf-states-and-southeast-toyota.1700683/ Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 02:06
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well you're conflating the traditional 'toyota tax' with covid pricing which is whats still going on down south i assume. the toyota tax is just the cars being slightly more expensive and less prone to end of year quarter deep cuts but more reliable in the long run. i'd wager the reason the prices never got cut as much is because they make better cars and don't have as much of a problem getting rid of their stock as 100 million ford f150s  edit: oh this gulf state toyota company sounds bad. definitely the dealership chain I got mine from was much smaller ethanol fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 02:15
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Twerk from Home posted:Are you in a market served by Toyota Corporate? I hear that things are much better in those territories. Gulf States Toyota So your problem is being in gulf states toyota territory. I almost forgot that was a thing.
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Oct 3, 2023 02:22
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That offer is shockingly bad. I guess that is the status quo if you want to add massive margin with low morals lol. People don’t read what they’re signing I guess.
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Oct 3, 2023 02:37
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Twerk from Home posted:Are you in a market served by Toyota Corporate? I hear that things are much better in those territories. Gulf States Toyota basically made sure that every car was loaded with tons of those bullshit dealer extras, and the dealers had already been worked over by the distributor so they couldn't just write them off Why does this even exist? Is there some weird law preventing Toyota from just selling directly to dealers in the south?
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Oct 3, 2023 03:41
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Ol' Limber Legs posted:I had a dealership experience yesterday that felt like I was getting royally screwed so I walked away. Mostly curious on how much better I could have done and what to do differently next time.
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Oct 3, 2023 03:47
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The problem is folks are trying to buy Toyotas and Hondas instead of Alfa Romeo’s that can be had for 10k plus under sticker, even on premium trims! 
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Oct 3, 2023 03:49
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thats still 40 k more than id pay for htat
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Oct 3, 2023 03:51
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davecrazy posted:The problem is folks are trying to buy Toyotas and Hondas instead of Alfa Romeo’s that can be had for 10k plus under sticker, even on premium trims! It's the wrong color but it really does pose the interesting question of if it can somehow cost $20k more in repairs and depreciation than my M4 will. Yes. The answer is yes it can.
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Oct 3, 2023 03:59
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KillHour posted:Why does this even exist? Is there some weird law preventing Toyota from just selling directly to dealers in the south?
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Oct 3, 2023 04:10
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Dates to the 60s, when Toyota was trying to break into the US market so they sold exclusive regional franchises. I guess they had no end date on the contracts?
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Oct 3, 2023 04:17
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Hmmm. Have they ever lost a $7.5 million slander lawsuit to another Toyota dealer tho https://www.al.com/live/2011/10/jury_awards_75_million_to_east.html
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Oct 3, 2023 04:31
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Twerk from Home posted:Stuff like this is why I've never managed to own a Toyota, even pre-pandemic I'd walk into a Toyota dealer, get told "the price is a couple grand over MSRP and if you don't like it you can blow it out your rear end" and then I'd leave. Looking forward to paying $70k over MSRP for a $50k base model land cruiser
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Oct 3, 2023 05:43
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Christ why isn't there a loving law to keep dealers from adding 7K of worthless poo poo onto every car
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Oct 3, 2023 06:10
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That would infringe on the rights of people who sell chicken mc nuggets on eBay that look like Jesus for $250,000
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Oct 3, 2023 06:19
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Ol' Limber Legs posted:Honda Accord Fleecing OP I don’t know how far you read in the thread but you sound like a good fit for something like Costco’s auto service. https://www.costcoauto.com/enterzipcode.aspx?gotourl=%2f
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Oct 3, 2023 12:29
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in a well actually posted:Dates to the 60s, when Toyota was trying to break into the US market so they sold exclusive regional franchises. I guess they had no end date on the contracts? Toyota bought out the other ones. There were like six or seven. I looked up the last buyout, which was Mid Atlantic Toyota in 1990. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1990/06/29/carmaker-to-cut-out-middleman/396ee137-357b-4971-b951-cff90daa154b/. Can't believe Toyota got out of that arrangement for about 20 million bucks. GST and SET are the last two left. They clearly have smarter lawyers.
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Oct 3, 2023 12:39
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Number_6 posted:Christ why isn't there a loving law to keep dealers from adding 7K of worthless poo poo onto every car Dealers are really well networked in small-medium towns and they have an incredible amount of political influence, particularly at the state level.
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Oct 3, 2023 12:59
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Toyota bought out the other ones. There were like six or seven. I looked up the last buyout, which was Mid Atlantic Toyota in 1990. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1990/06/29/carmaker-to-cut-out-middleman/396ee137-357b-4971-b951-cff90daa154b/. Can't believe Toyota got out of that arrangement for about 20 million bucks. Yeah, it was a pretty common model for foreign automakers through the 70s; see also Malcolm Bricklin’s many adventures.
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Oct 3, 2023 13:01
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ethanol posted:thats still 40 k more than id pay for htat It’s an amazing car!
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Oct 3, 2023 13:26
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in a well actually posted:Yeah, it was a pretty common model for foreign automakers through the 70s; see also Malcolm Bricklin’s many adventures. Subaru still has it as well, Subaru of New England is a separate distributorship. Herb ain't never gonna sell those rights.
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Oct 3, 2023 14:29
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ThirstyBuck posted:OP I don’t know how far you read in the thread but you sound like a good fit for something like Costco’s auto service. Thanks, I always forget Costco does everything. I also found a broker in town who seems to get great reviews.
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Oct 3, 2023 14:51
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Really says something that the wise advice is to hire some kind of middleman to help you deal with the other middleman who is preventing you from purchasing a mass produced product from a multinational company at a reasonable price.
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Oct 3, 2023 16:08
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thekeeshman posted:Really says something that the wise advice is to hire some kind of middleman to help you deal with the other middleman who is preventing you from purchasing a mass produced product from a multinational company at a reasonable price.
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Oct 3, 2023 16:12
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thekeeshman posted:Really says something that the wise advice is to hire some kind of middleman to help you deal with the other middleman who is preventing you from purchasing a mass produced product from a multinational company at a reasonable price. Yes, it's a sad state of affairs due to a broken bought and paid for political system that allows this to continue. But realistically you know how to negotiate because you have experience doing it and just need to know the parameters of the car buying process and you'll be fine or you don't have experience negotiating and you sure are not going to learn enough here (or anywhere) to buy a car. I think a lot of us in here have spent years in jobs where we're negotiating contracts that aren't just much higher dollar than cars, but much higher dollars than houses. It's a skill set you're not going to learn buying a new car ever 10 years.
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Oct 3, 2023 16:15
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Motronic posted:Yes, it's a sad state of affairs due to a broken bought and paid for political system that allows this to continue. I guess my broader point is that a car like a Toyota is a mass produced commodity product and buying it shouldn't require negotiation any more than the purchase of a new laptop should. The fact that you have to talk to some shitlicker just to get a price in the first place is insane.
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Oct 3, 2023 16:22
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thekeeshman posted:I guess my broader point is that a car like a Toyota is a mass produced commodity product and buying it shouldn't require negotiation any more than the purchase of a new laptop should. The fact that you have to talk to some shitlicker just to get a price in the first place is insane. Yes, this is what I was addressing in my first sentence. These are commodity, mass produced widgets when new. There should be "a price" and that's it.
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Oct 3, 2023 16:24
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thekeeshman posted:I guess my broader point is that a car like a Toyota is a mass produced commodity product and buying it shouldn't require negotiation any more than the purchase of a new laptop should. The fact that you have to talk to some shitlicker just to get a price in the first place is insane. The problem with franchises, especially those awful Toyota systems, is the anti consumer practices of charging for non value adds because there is a captive market and a tendency to buy what you can get especially with such a force as Toyota.
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Oct 3, 2023 16:38
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Ol' Limber Legs posted:Thanks, I always forget Costco does everything. I also found a broker in town who seems to get great reviews. If you aren’t dead set on new, you are a good candidate for Carmax. Take your Prius there and get an offer at the minimum. That should be your floor for selling it. Carmax is no haggle. They don’t offer any extras to up sell other than an extended warranty (pass). It’s no / low pressure. Prices will be higher than private party but seem to align with used dealers. I’ve bought and sold with them several just because the experience is convenient, the initial used warranty is good, and the no questions asked return period isn’t offered by anyone else, making it easy to get a private inspection.
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Oct 3, 2023 16:41
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Loan Dusty Road posted:If you aren’t dead set on new, you are a good candidate for Carmax. Take your Prius there and get an offer at the minimum. That should be your floor for selling it. Carmax is no haggle. They don’t offer any extras to up sell other than an extended warranty (pass). It’s no / low pressure. Prices will be higher than private party but seem to align with used dealers. I’ve bought and sold with them several just because the experience is convenient, the initial used warranty is good, and the no questions asked return period isn’t offered by anyone else, making it easy to get a private inspection. This is all good advice, but beware that CarMax price lines up with the top percent of the used car dealers, and you can do much better by looking around or negotiating. But if talking to a professional con artist gives you anxiety, no haggle lots is the way to go. I just bought a used car after looking for over 12 months, it's all very familiar. But given the luxury of time and research, the price I paid is in the lower 10%. The difference in my case was like $8,000, which is significant. Nitrox fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 17:01
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Also every brand with a no haggle model has had a bunch of consumers complain and think they aren't getting a good price because they aren't getting A Deal. It also means that you can get your legs cut out from under you by dealers of other brands who can discount more heavily. This happened with both Scion and Saturn. The current supply-constrained auto market is not actually representative of the historical auto market. Until the pandemic it was fairly easy to buy lots of cars at or below MSRP.
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Oct 3, 2023 17:35
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God I loved my Scion. Best car purchase experience I've ever had. Said I wanted a tC in grey with a manual and airbags, they said it would be about 3 months. About 3 months later I walked in and bought it for the exact price on the label, like groceries.
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Oct 3, 2023 17:48
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Gangringo posted:God I loved my Scion. Best car purchase experience I've ever had. oh yeah it was definitely a better experience, but it turns out that american consumers don't actually want a better experience, they want to Get A Deal and drive something away Today!!!
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Oct 3, 2023 18:03
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Also every brand with a no haggle model has had a bunch of consumers complain and think they aren't getting a good price because they aren't getting A Deal. It also means that you can get your legs cut out from under you by dealers of other brands who can discount more heavily. This happened with both Scion and Saturn. Does it seem like Tesla is getting this same pushback?
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Oct 3, 2023 18:40
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Steve French posted:Does it seem like Tesla is getting this same pushback? My observation is that a large part of the buying public does feel like they're getting an outstanding deal on a Tesla, if people haven't been following it they think Teslas are $70k, $80k cars and then they find out they actually cost $40k? Deal of a lifetime!
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Oct 3, 2023 18:52
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Steve French posted:Does it seem like Tesla is getting this same pushback? Tesla's had an advantage of being fairly unique in the market thus far (you can't quite cross shop a Model 3 with anything, or you couldn't really until relatively recently, versus something like a Saturn which you could directly cross shop with a Ford Escort or a Honda Civic or a Nissan Sentra, which are fairly comparable and commoditized. I suspect it's possible that if there's more competition in the EV space they may struggle with customers who want the best possible price. Tesla's business model is also different. The prior models were a dealership, but with no-haggle prices. It's a bit confusing to walk in to an independent franchise dealership and then have a slightly different model than every other dealership. You walk in to a store in a mall run by the OEM, that's a different story. People are now also used to buying poo poo sight unseen on the internet. That wasn't the case in the Saturn era (ecommerce did not yet exist) or the Scion to a great extent. There's just a higher level of comfort with plunking down a bunch of money for something you haven't seen, touched, sat in, and driven.
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Oct 3, 2023 19:34
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