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Cyouni
Sep 30, 2014

without love it cannot be seen
Prudence (aka running away) is very important to not die when delving into a superdungeon. Never running away from an encounter that is far stronger than you will absolutely kill you.

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Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010
any tips on running kingmaker before i get started? will be using the foundry vtt

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


First look at the revised ranger. More magic available, some changes to Crossbow Ace. https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siew?Player-Core-Preview-The-Remastered-Ranger

Kyrosiris
May 24, 2006

You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".



Lamuella posted:

First look at the revised ranger. More magic available, some changes to Crossbow Ace. https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siew?Player-Core-Preview-The-Remastered-Ranger

Making crossbows not poo poo?

Is this really still Pathfinder???

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010

Lamuella posted:

First look at the revised ranger. More magic available, some changes to Crossbow Ace. https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siew?Player-Core-Preview-The-Remastered-Ranger

wow, and still nothing for the magus

Evilgm
Dec 31, 2014

Kyrosiris posted:

Making crossbows not poo poo?

Is this really still Pathfinder???

No worries, they're still poo poo.

Vanguard Warden
Apr 5, 2009

I am holding a live frag grenade.

Evilgm posted:

No worries, they're still poo poo.

Yeah, the change from the pinning effect that all bows had to the minor bleed effect seems like kind of a downgrade honestly. The pinning effect ate an Interact action from the target (provoking reactions) to remove, versus some minor bleed damage that might not even come into effect before the target dies.

And even with MAP penalties stacking up, building for as many attacks as possible in a round always outperforms going for one big attack outside of Magus shenanigans, so leaning into the reload of crossbows doesn't help things much.

KPC_Mammon
Jan 23, 2004

Ready for the fashy circle jerk
I like reloading weapons if you have action compression to fix the loading.

I'm not yet sold on crossbow ace. Taking cover is really powerful, but if you don't need to move, you'll only do it once per fight.

Both actions are things you'd do before a stealth check, and you can potentially get more value from the feat by being mobile. Considering how boring most ranged martial characters end up, crossbow ace might encourage a more interesting gameplay loop. I'd be willing to try it.

Evilgm
Dec 31, 2014

KPC_Mammon posted:

Taking cover is really powerful, but if you don't need to move, you'll only do it once per fight.

Or until you shoot, as Attack actions end the effect. So if you end up in a situation where you need to Reload before your attack instead of after the Feat loses a lot of value, and it didn't have much to begin with- Reload+ actions are a great idea, but these aren't super useful options for most Ranger builds to be able to capitalise on.

Big Mouth Billy Basshole
Jun 18, 2007

Fun Shoe

Vanguard Warden posted:

Yeah, the change from the pinning effect that all bows had to the minor bleed effect seems like kind of a downgrade honestly. The pinning effect ate an Interact action from the target (provoking reactions) to remove, versus some minor bleed damage that might not even come into effect before the target dies.

And even with MAP penalties stacking up, building for as many attacks as possible in a round always outperforms going for one big attack outside of Magus shenanigans, so leaning into the reload of crossbows doesn't help things much.

Speaking of map, I'm going to play a kineticist for the first time this week. Is it better to use a 2 action melee elemental blast or 2 one action blasts using agile from weapon infusion?

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Big Mouth Billy Basshole posted:

Speaking of map, I'm going to play a kineticist for the first time this week. Is it better to use a 2 action melee elemental blast or 2 one action blasts using agile from weapon infusion?

Probably the two swings, assuming they both hit.

On 2 successful strikes, it'd basically be (1dx + StrMod) + (1dx + StrMod), so with a d6 and +4 Str, it'd be 10-20 damage total.

Whereas the 2 action swing would just be 1dx + StrMod + ConMod, assuming a +4 CON because obviously, it'd be 9-14 damage.

Unless I am completely loving my math somewhere, but yeah, if you're confident you won't miss, probably the two swings.

Big Mouth Billy Basshole
Jun 18, 2007

Fun Shoe

the_steve posted:

Probably the two swings, assuming they both hit.

On 2 successful strikes, it'd basically be (1dx + StrMod) + (1dx + StrMod), so with a d6 and +4 Str, it'd be 10-20 damage total.

Whereas the 2 action swing would just be 1dx + StrMod + ConMod, assuming a +4 CON because obviously, it'd be 9-14 damage.

Unless I am completely loving my math somewhere, but yeah, if you're confident you won't miss, probably the two swings.

That math looks about right, I'm going wood/water so my strength mod is +2, so I can also get dex +2 for the hardwood armor.

Looks like a target with lower AC would be best to use two one action attacks where a higher AC may be better for the two action version.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Impermanent posted:

wow, and still nothing for the magus

...it's not a core book class

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Big Mouth Billy Basshole posted:

That math looks about right, I'm going wood/water so my strength mod is +2, so I can also get dex +2 for the hardwood armor.

Looks like a target with lower AC would be best to use two one action attacks where a higher AC may be better for the two action version.

The other thing to keep in mind, at least later on, is that using the 2 action swing can activate your Impulse Junction once you unlock them, so the benefits of those effects might make up for the lesser damage depending on the situation.

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007

Impermanent posted:

any tips on running kingmaker before i get started? will be using the foundry vtt

Bumping this- although one thing I've read is you may want to read up on some of the issues players have found with kingdom building and how to make it less of a trap and hassle at times.

KPC_Mammon
Jan 23, 2004

Ready for the fashy circle jerk

Evilgm posted:

Or until you shoot, as Attack actions end the effect. So if you end up in a situation where you need to Reload before your attack instead of after the Feat loses a lot of value, and it didn't have much to begin with- Reload+ actions are a great idea, but these aren't super useful options for most Ranger builds to be able to capitalise on.

Holy poo poo. I'm sometimes bad at reading the last sentence of actions or abilities. Thank you for pointing that out.

Take cover can let you win shootouts and gives a +4 bonus on stealth checks to hide. I like it a lot. I don't think reloading before the end of your turn is too big of an ask.

KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Oct 4, 2023

Lurks With Wolves
Jan 14, 2013

At least I don't dance with them, right?

Fidel Cuckstro posted:

Bumping this- although one thing I've read is you may want to read up on some of the issues players have found with kingdom building and how to make it less of a trap and hassle at times.

As a general comment on the kingdom building rules, remember that they're more of a pile of blocks for your players to play with that make them feel like they're doing city management than an actual city management system. If your players aren't interested in playing with it (or stop being as interested in it after a while), trim it back until you have the amount of stuff they want to interact with, because all it's good for is giving you ideas on what to do with the kingdom and making your players feel involved.

Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010

Lurks With Wolves posted:

As a general comment on the kingdom building rules, remember that they're more of a pile of blocks for your players to play with that make them feel like they're doing city management than an actual city management system. If your players aren't interested in playing with it (or stop being as interested in it after a while), trim it back until you have the amount of stuff they want to interact with, because all it's good for is giving you ideas on what to do with the kingdom and making your players feel involved.

My groups biggest complaints with it was how it's basically impossible to do anything with your actions as a Kingdom official due to the high DCs early on, and that who you have in each position doesn't matter, because your character's abilities don't have any impact on the position at all.

Not to mention the ridiculously slow rate at which your Kingdom gains xp. I'm pretty sure I saw one of the designers say that it's probably better to just have the Kingdom level match the party level.

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


Starfinder 2e profile of the Mystic. https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siex?Field-Test-2-Putting-the-Fantasy-in

gtrmp
Sep 29, 2008

Oba-Ma... Oba-Ma! Oba-Ma, aasha deh!
If the mystic is divine/primal, I wonder if the technomancer will be arcane/occult or if they'll be strictly arcane and another class will have occult covered.

HidaO-Win
Jun 5, 2013

"And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"
I kind of like that the mystics pool of healing points is pretty small compared to a clerics on rank heal spell, it is a lot more action efficient. However its regen scales poorly, I’d like to see it kept as a relatively small pool, but with regen enchanced to be used more than maybe once per fight.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

gtrmp posted:

If the mystic is divine/primal, I wonder if the technomancer will be arcane/occult or if they'll be strictly arcane and another class will have occult covered.

Arcane Technomancer and occult Witchwarper seems likely.

The real questions are how they’ll make the SF2 Envoy and Operative distinct from the Rogue and the Mechanic distinct from the Inventor. For Mechanic I guess you could embrace the similarities, with the differences being a matter of adapting the concept to a higher technological baseline.

Edit: I guess Envoy could be somewhat like a cross between a Rogue and a Thaumaturge without the supernatural aspects, using Cha for things that would normally use Int or Wis, while the Operative could be a cross between a Rogue and a Ranger but without the nature theme.

Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Oct 5, 2023

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

wiggle wiggle




Piell posted:

Leshy seems like a weird ancestry to make core considering they all have to be individually created by druids

Almost everyone is individually created by parents. And that usually takes two! Druids don't even need a buddy.

In the free one shot A Fistful of Flowers some antagonist leshys have a different origin. "Leshys are made by Lady Constance Meliosa (NE female human sorcerer 5) is a sorcerer with a primal bloodline. During her leshy research, she discovered a ritual to create the creatures." which seems like a pretty low barrier.

Leaf Druids can make a tiny familiar one at level 1, so the basics of stuffing a spirit into a plant doesn't seem that hard.

Leshys can also outlive their creators. They don't have a life expectancy and don't age. So there's potentially ten thousand years of leshys outliving their creators and just hanging around.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

A druid just Johnny Appleseeding leshies everywhere he goes so he can be the mythical leshy all-father.

You get to the end of a dungeon and it turns out that druid had already been there and left a leshy to tell you what cool treasure you missed out on.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

marshmallow creep posted:

A druid just Johnny Appleseeding leshies everywhere he goes so he can be the mythical leshy all-father.

You get to the end of a dungeon and it turns out that druid had already been there and left a leshy to tell you what cool treasure you missed out on.

his name? Kar'bakh the rear end in a top hat, after telling u about the treasure the leshies just start talking insane amounts of poo poo

found an item on an osr blog somewhere that was like that, perma speak with animals but they HATE u as long as u wear it, fun item

sugar free jazz fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Oct 5, 2023

The Bee
Nov 25, 2012

Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!

marshmallow creep posted:

A druid just Johnny Appleseeding leshies everywhere he goes so he can be the mythical leshy all-father.

You get to the end of a dungeon and it turns out that druid had already been there and left a leshy to tell you what cool treasure you missed out on.

I want to see the look on a party's face when they open this big, ornate treasure chest, and all they hear is this soundbyte.

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

Futzing with a backup kineticist for AV (level 5 currently) building around this:

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4271

Winter Sleet posted:


Bone-chilling, swirling sleet surrounds you, cruel as deepest winter. Surfaces in your kinetic aura are coated in slippery ice. A creature that moves on this uneven ground immediately falls unless it Balances (DC 15). A creature is off-guard on the ice, as normal for uneven ground. You're immune to these effects.

If a creature on the ice is critically hit by one of your water impulses or critically fails at a save against one, that creature is slowed 1 until the end of its next turn.


So if a creature tries to move into melee range, do they have to eat another action to Balance? And if they fail that Balance attempt they just fall over?

Is Standing considered a "move" that would require the Balance action?


Then I'm thinking how best to compliment Winter Sleet. It's melee'ish so figure Weapon Infusion (for reach melee) and a dip into either Wood or Earth for the armor so I can go Strength over Dex for the boost to Athletics. Maybe Wood since Vitality damage is good against undeads?

Figure the plan is to keep enemies at the 10ft mark, pound them with Water impulses to try to trigger the Slow so that they start their turn with only 2 actions then all they can do is: move, balance, turn over??

Cyouni
Sep 30, 2014

without love it cannot be seen

appropriatemetaphor posted:

Futzing with a backup kineticist for AV (level 5 currently) building around this:

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4271

So if a creature tries to move into melee range, do they have to eat another action to Balance? And if they fail that Balance attempt they just fall over?

Is Standing considered a "move" that would require the Balance action?

My read of those is yes, yes, no. Basically, read it as creating uneven ground as per Balance.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

appropriatemetaphor posted:

Futzing with a backup kineticist for AV (level 5 currently) building around this:

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4271

So if a creature tries to move into melee range, do they have to eat another action to Balance? And if they fail that Balance attempt they just fall over?

Is Standing considered a "move" that would require the Balance action?


Then I'm thinking how best to compliment Winter Sleet. It's melee'ish so figure Weapon Infusion (for reach melee) and a dip into either Wood or Earth for the armor so I can go Strength over Dex for the boost to Athletics. Maybe Wood since Vitality damage is good against undeads?

Figure the plan is to keep enemies at the 10ft mark, pound them with Water impulses to try to trigger the Slow so that they start their turn with only 2 actions then all they can do is: move, balance, turn over??

I’m building towards something similar in a SKT campaign, though level 5 is where it really turns on, I hope.

I like Metal for the armor option, specifically because you can combine it with the Bastion archetype (it does require a “wasted” general feat on shield block to set up, annoyingly) to do a strong “I am going to stand in the middle of everything and be a pain in the rear end” model.

Big Mouth Billy Basshole
Jun 18, 2007

Fun Shoe
I just had my first session as a level 2 water-wood kineticist. I'm also planning on taking the water stance after getting safe elements.

I have had a lot of fun so far. I really like how the class is designed. I feel like I have interesting things to do every turn and with each action. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it comes along at higher levels.

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004


Wood gets you Tree Sentinel, which is amazing. At level 5 you can negate 30dmg per round using it.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

Enos Cabell posted:

Wood gets you Tree Sentinel, which is amazing. At level 5 you can negate 30dmg per round using it.

Also, outside of combat, you can use it to create an infinite number of trees.

KPC_Mammon
Jan 23, 2004

Ready for the fashy circle jerk

Silver2195 posted:

Also, outside of combat, you can use it to create an infinite number of trees.

Only if you have an infinite amount of time. I assume most GMs would let you use it as part of the repeat a spell exploration activity. Might not be as useful as something like searching but it would certainly be cool.

I'd let such a player start combat with a fresh tree within range, personally.

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

For "Weapon Infusion" https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4186 does it suppress the other traits of the blast?

Like for Winter Sleet if you critically hit an enemy with "one of your water impulses", they're Slowed. But does adding the reach trait using weapon infusion remove the water trait?


Enos Cabell posted:

Wood gets you Tree Sentinel, which is amazing. At level 5 you can negate 30dmg per round using it.

Yeah it seems quite cool. Shield block off the wood armor + tree diving in the way make it real hard to get focused down.

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012

Khajit has wares
if you have coin
I've been spamming Protector Tree as my Druid in Kingmaker and being able to sprout trees solves a surprisingly large number of problems.

Don't feel like digging a hole to bury the corpses of your enemies? Drag them into a pile and sprout a tree on top of it. Mudslide due to inclement weather? Sprout a tree and climb on top.

Always be tree'in

browsers castle
Dec 27, 2011
What’s the consensus on treat wounds and battle medicine for a PC Skeleton? I’m interpreting it as basic undead benefits override the undead trait therefore anything with healing without positive will work, therefore treat wounds and battle medicine heal PC skeletons and stitch flesh is not required.

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010
is there somewhere i can get like a list of pre-formatted battleforms for the druid wildshape for use in foundry?

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012

Khajit has wares
if you have coin

browsers castle posted:

What’s the consensus on treat wounds and battle medicine for a PC Skeleton? I’m interpreting it as basic undead benefits override the undead trait therefore anything with healing without positive will work, therefore treat wounds and battle medicine heal PC skeletons and stitch flesh is not required.
Treat Wounds can only be used on living targets. It's Stitch Flesh or bust.

browsers castle
Dec 27, 2011

Froghammer posted:

Treat Wounds can only be used on living targets. It's Stitch Flesh or bust.

I can buy that, then battle medicine is OK since it does not have the living stipulation?

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3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.
Battle Medicine has the healing trait, though.

Undead don't benefit from healing:

https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=160

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