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God, the finale was amazing. They really stuck the landing. I'm riding that high the entire day today  So many good moments. Among my favorite: Egwene freeing herself without any help. Egwene killing Renna by having more willpower. Egwene IMMEDIATELY attacking Ishamael after he appeared. Egwene protecting Rand from Ishamael after she recovered. Mat attaching the dagger to the staff in order to create the Ashanderei stand-in. Mat figuring out he is a reborn Hero of the Horn (even if that is counter to the books). Rand killing Turak and his guards. Lanfears going from super happy to horrified at finding out Ishamael had outtricked her. Moghedien. My thoughts about Ishamael: After Rand said no, he went to plan B: Die and wait for the next turning of the wheel However, he will be resurrected and be more deranged than ever. Basically turning around the Ishamael to Moridin changeover from the books. About Nynaeve: She just got a harsh lesson that she is completely useless if she can't get her channeling under control. After the two super amazing feats of Power in season 1, I think this was a super interesting and needed thing to put in the show - both from a viewer standpoint and also for her development as a character. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 10:38
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This show. While I enjoyed the overall arc and think the acting is mostly fine there's so much goofy poo poo that just tries to drop it into Hercules level cringe. Just things that it's hard to believe made it out of a writer's room and past the production crew. Nyneave is a great healer but just shoves an arrow shaft with feathers still attached through Elayne's leg and she's got an annoying limp after? The Seanchan have the worst patrols ever. Some kids walk up somehow generating enough smoke to hide an army? Some dangerous looking maidens of the spear just waltz right up into the city? Book Lan might have been my overall favorite character, the show has done him dirty. The restoring of the bond scene was so unearned IMO and that was time that could have been spent elsewhere. I'd have found it more fitting to their show characters if Lanfear had just dumped them in the Waste and they were sidelined the rest of the episode. Waste of good acting. I liked Perrin taking out Daddy Bornhold. That gave us the Hopper moment and Dain a reason to truly hate Perrin. I also can't take Valda seriously ever since his goofy "light save me" yell. Show Ingtar also done dirty, his death felt very meh. We were never given a reason to care about him. It also seems show Ingtar wasn't a Darkfriend, which again just made his character kind of meh. Waste of a good actor. While the circular logic between the collars and bracelets final fight made no sense I enjoyed the scenes between Egwene and Renna. They had great chemistry for being adversaries the entire time. While I will miss Ishy the rest of the Forsaken getting in on the action should be fun, if they get enough time to properly develop. I'm glad Lanfear should still be around. I liked how Lanfear has shown she totally outclassed every other female channeler but Moghy got the drop on her. Not sure what they'll do but I'll be totally fine if they drop the whole Rand/Ahvienda/Elayne/Min thing. Looking forward to S3 in 2025. Dingleberry2 fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 10:46
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Sanguinia posted:Here's all my thoughts: That and the fact that it was caused by the evil dagger, which I feel has been handled a lot more coherently in the show than in the books I did keep wondering how the hell Mat managed to secure it onto the staff so firmly that he could use it to pry open locks and boxes and kill 100 armored soldiers without it coming undone and flying off. All he had was a strip of cloth and some candle wax or something, he couldn't even touch it to glue it on lmao (My prediction is that this is the final form of his spear, I'm not sure why others think it's going to get an upgrade once he visits Watts the blacksmith or whatever) quote:
They did this really well I think. Perfectly captured and visualized Perrin's entire character setup of "I am now the whitecloaks' Public Enemy #1, even though all I ever did was in self-defense and/or was 1000% justified by what they did to my friends/Hopper, but they never saw it so persecuting me is totally justified as far as they're concerned". So maddening as a reader or viewer (and the kind of thing I would never be able to bring myself to write, I'm positive of it), but it's what keeps people engaged.
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Oct 6, 2023 11:24
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Having her heal his wound because Nynaeve just could not get her power going, even in that dire situation, was great, Elayne shone in general in this episode, and I can't wait to see how her relationship with Nynaeve is changed by these events. Also having her do it be the reason why it's going to be a throbbing scar for the rest of the series was a great change.
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Some real whiplash in this thread, lol I'm firmly on camp "loved it". Probably the only thing I really disliked was Ingtar, because his df arc is so good, they should have just cut the character without that, what's the point?
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Oct 6, 2023 11:48
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Mostly satisfied with the finale, but the show still has some rough edges that are keeping it from greatness. I’m surprised some folks liked the Heroes of the Horn. I thought their visual design was just terrible - looked like a bunch of cosplayers and overall felt cheap. Donal Finn is also really inconsistent in his performance and didn’t do a great job of selling the moment. The show has an issue with visual composition as a whole. It often looks a little too…clean? One of the things that helped GOT take off as a show is that the visual design was really great - and it felt very grounded from an aesthetic perspective. WoT still looks cheap in many ways, even though I’m sure it’s not. It’s inconsistent, though- their work in the Tower sets and generally when folks are out in the countryside is much better, but the way the finale is shot didn’t look great. The finale also felt rushed in a way that made it feel like they felt obligated to get some “moments” in (e.g. basically anything involving Ingtar). The show is at its best when it slows down a bit and lets things breath (this is why the stuff with the Forsaken has been so good - their scenes have focused on allowing us to explore those characters in a way that isn’t burdened by having to move plot forward), and the finale’s pacing didn’t really allow for that (outside of Ishy and Lanfear’s scenes together, and the final stinger).
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Oct 6, 2023 11:54
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On the subject of the Whitecloaks getting a mixed-bag treatment here and how well that sets up the role they’ll be playing from here on out, it was wild and very funny to have the not-KKK screaming into every alleyway “we don’t take kindly to SLAVERS round these parts”
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Oct 6, 2023 12:07
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Havent had a chance to rewatch yet but upon sleeping on it: I thought the heroes sequence was great, glad it wasnt just a pile of CGI spectral knights like LOTR. Moggy rules, I doubt Ishy is gone for good and Lanfears GTFO weave in the ways was cool. Some parts were janky and the editing was a bit rushed but they had to pack in a ton of poo poo  Can't wait to rewatch after work.
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Oct 6, 2023 12:18
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VanillaGorilla posted:I’m surprised some folks liked the Heroes of the Horn. I thought their visual design was just terrible - looked like a bunch of cosplayers and overall felt cheap.
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Oct 6, 2023 12:31
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I was thinking that weirdly, there's not a lot that could be properly "spoiled" in the TV-only thread now, in the sense that probably almost anything that could be revealed that will happen later, the TV-only audience won't be too surprised by. Rand will cleanse the taint? Yeah sure. Rand beats up all the Forsaken? Yeah obviously. The girls all become super channelers and wreck up the place and lock horns with the Seanchan 100 more times? Yup. Mat and Perrin lean into their new superpowers a bunch? Duh. The Aiel do a bunch of Aiel stuff? Not too surprising. Rand beats the DO and saves the day? Well obviously Except for one thing: If you told the TV thread that Rand will get down with not just Elayne but Aviendha and Min they would all be like LMAOOOO WTF (also the Tower schism/rebellion I guess, there's no reason for anyone to see that coming really)
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Oct 6, 2023 12:36
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I hate this wig lol
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Oct 6, 2023 12:52
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I thought the Turak fake out was hilarious. Jackass Rafe knew exactly what he was doing.
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Oct 6, 2023 13:20
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What's the Seanchan Empress's favourite Dire Straits track? Sul'dams of Swing Really excited to watch the finale tonight. Gonna have a beige feast ('British tapas') to celebrate.
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Oct 6, 2023 13:38
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 The only form of British tapas I recognise 
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Oct 6, 2023 13:57
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The decision to make Moghedien a cross between Edna Mode and Frau Farbissina was an inspired adaptation decision.
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Oct 6, 2023 14:05
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Siuan Sanche: You didn't learn a thing in 6 months. Rand: The gently caress I didn't.
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Oct 6, 2023 14:16
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silvergoose posted:Some real whiplash in this thread, lol The real whiplash was hopper dying followed immediately mats blowing of the horn. Incredible low followed by incredible high. I think the worst part of ingtar was so much that we didn't get his dark friend explanation, it's that the crew we're still within line of sight of him when he died.
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Oct 6, 2023 14:19
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Yeah Ingtar I don’t know why they even included him or that scene. It barely resembles the scene from the books and serves no real purpose in the show just cut him from the runtime and use those minutes more wisely. If you don’t set up his character and his arc at all it doesn’t really land with any weight. Feels like they included it just as poorly done fan service. I’d rather they just cut that plot instead of doing it poorly.
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Oct 6, 2023 14:25
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nine-gear crow posted:I'm cool with Rand never actually learning to swordfight because, well, poo poo, he can just loving machine gun fuckers to death with fire from his mind. Who the hell needs a sword when you can do that? Learning weapons (the bow, from his father an accomplished sword-master, and the blade, from lan) is how book rand learned the flame and the void, and built the will to control saidin. It’s also how he doesn’t lose himself. His development as a shepherd/hunter, into archer, into boat/caravan guard, into swordsman, into warder apprentice, into sword-master is very deliberate and a consistent build up revisited throughout the first several books. Eventually he moves away from the sword in the aiel arcs with learning hand to hand and spear stuff, then comes back to the sword to help recenter himself. It’s a whole through-line of his character to stay connected to his early life and Tam, which is integral to his climactic rise from nihilist as the zen rand at the end of the series after talking to tam again. I think the show is weaker for not establishing these early touchstones, because they make the payoff of the absolute nadir rand stronger. Then again, they managed to make mat’s various things turn out ok-ish and hey we might get a quarter staff beating so maybe they have a plan. It does seem like another case of making their future writing lives hard for no reason though. That’s honestly the hardest part of watching this. Sometimes they stick the landing, but the entire apparatus collapses as they walk off like tourischeva. Sometimes they just don’t introduce any of the groundwork and some random scene happens from the books that makes zero sense because all the groundwork is missing. Episode tonight was good, nits if any are just related to nyn’s block, ingtar not having internal monologue, and the interminable wait for s3. Anias fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 14:30
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nine-gear crow posted:I'm cool with Rand never actually learning to swordfight because, well, poo poo, he can just loving machine gun fuckers to death with fire from his mind. Who the hell needs a sword when you can do that?
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Oct 6, 2023 14:39
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Yeah I started to suspect that Ingtat's Darkfriend arc might've been cut when they didn't have him going crazy-eyed over getting the Horn. Sure, the dude really wanted to get it, but it wasn't the desperate want of a guy clinging to what he thought was his last hope to escape the Dark
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Oct 6, 2023 14:40
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RandomReader posted:Taim made this exact point, and I'm pretty sure in that same book Rand went on to kill 3 warders while shielded. Nynaeve also gets the edge on Moghedian because she didn't think the power was the only important element in a fight. It's also not a bad idea to have alternative combat solutions when your magic is actively driving you insane. Rand tended to go too hard on using a sword over the power, yeah, but it's frequently reinforced that it's not a bad idea to branch out from just using the power as your only means of problem solving. And the "Tam is definitely totally my real dad guys, I use his sword and everything" narrative too. I'm starting to think that we're going to get the consolidation time skip next season. The crew is now actually all in one place now. So next season starts with a "6 months later" thing before some go back to the tower and some go to the three fold land. And part of that will be the training that bookRand got in Sheinar after the eye of the world. People were saying how it sucks that Lan wasn't teaching Rand sword stuff and the choices here were obviously tied to that. There's already going to be enough sudden masterful insights with him remembering weaves and stuff that if was also able to defeat a Blademaster with the information we got on screen it would have been worse.
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Oct 6, 2023 14:56
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silvergoose posted:Some real whiplash in this thread, lol I'd agree with this. They should have cut some of the Lan stuff earlier in the season to expand on him
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Oct 6, 2023 15:09
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Do we think it will go waste=>tear, or waste->cairhein. Other? Waste ->andor?
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Oct 6, 2023 15:14
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DarkHorse posted:Uno is Gaidal Cain Your idea here is effectively confirmed by Rafe https://collider.com/wheel-of-time-season-2-finale-rafe-judkins-interview/ There is a little Easter Egg of a character that we've combined Uno with from later in the books; I think they'll know from the two swords what we're doing there. But it's an important piece of visual storytelling. We knew we wanted one of the heroes to be someone that you knew because it lets you understand what that means, that after you die you can be brought back as a Hero of the Horn to fight battles again. pik_d fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 15:16
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RC Cola posted:Do we think it will go waste=>tear, or waste->cairhein. Other? Waste ->andor? I think waste > tear > cairhein
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Oct 6, 2023 15:18
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CainFortea posted:I think waste > tear > cairhein I hope so! I'm just wondering how they go about setting up everyone going to tear satisfyingly. Maybe skip wonder girls to tear entirely and send them to tanchico now? So Elayne/nynaeve/egwene to tanchico? And she gets summoned by the wise ones while there. Gives her a way to meet back up with rand to go to the waste and keeps her wondergirling?We can have Perrin/lan/moiraine together chasing rand +aiel maybe? To tear? Maybe? Mat ???? Meets Thom and gets lucky?
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Oct 6, 2023 15:24
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RC Cola posted:I hope so! I'm just wondering how they go about setting up everyone going to tear satisfyingly. Maybe skip wonder girls to tear entirely and send them to tanchico now? So Elayne/nynaeve/egwene to tanchico? And she gets summoned by the wise ones while there. Gives her a way to meet back up with rand to go to the waste and keeps her wondergirling?We can have Perrin/lan/moiraine together chasing rand +aiel maybe? To tear? Maybe? Mat ???? Meets Thom and gets lucky? I kind of feel that we're going to get a Time skip and after that we're going to get word of trouble in the tower and the two rivers. And that's why we're going to get a split. Rand Matt and egwene are going to go to the wastes. Perrin, nyneave, and Elayne head to the two rivers. The first two for obvious reasons and the third because that's her kingdom. But something happens to redirect the two girls.
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Oct 6, 2023 15:37
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Big Mutha Truckers 2 posted:
I see you in disguise over here, dissing my dinner choices
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Oct 6, 2023 15:41
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CainFortea posted:I think waste > tear > cairhein That would make sense. First Rand comes out of the waste and takes over Tear, then he gets news that the bad Aiel have also come out of the waste and invaded Cairhien and then we get the Battle of Cairhien.
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Oct 6, 2023 16:45
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CainFortea posted:The real whiplash was hopper dying followed immediately mats blowing of the horn. That was hilarious. I'll hold them! *dies*
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Oct 6, 2023 17:30
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Data Graham posted:That and the fact that it was caused by the evil dagger, which I feel has been handled a lot more coherently in the show than in the books I'm not so sure honestly. My prediction for the Mat stuff early next season will be him grappling with giving his best friend such a brutal wound. Even if he has the dagger in a more secure form, it's still too dangerous to have around because accidents happen. He might have a Gollum moment of keeping it around before he throws it in a hole (with Fain whistling in the background). Between that and assumed unlocking his past lives in some capacity, he's got a lot of poo poo To Work Through even if he's not necessarily on a dagger induced bender. That said I also think having his memories at this exact point in the story will also cheapen him dunking on Galad and Gawyn later if we do get that scene.
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Oct 6, 2023 17:31
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They could do it so his memories only came back while the Horn was active and now it's over his head is a jumbled mess so he's in line with his arc in the books
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Oct 6, 2023 17:33
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Yeah, that would also give him some form of skill to train to be more in line with Rand/Perrin/Egwene/Nynaeve at this point.
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Oct 6, 2023 17:42
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Big Mutha Truckers 2 posted:They could do it so his memories only came back while the Horn was active and now it's over his head is a jumbled mess so he's in line with his arc in the books yeah this is my best guess as to what will happen -- mat now knows what he doesn't know, so to speak, and will be aware of having all these fragments and missing memories
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Oct 6, 2023 17:43
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CainFortea posted:The real whiplash was hopper dying followed immediately mats blowing of the horn. There's just too much poo poo that needed to happen in that episode to give full weight to those kind of book moments. The good news is: in one of several post finale interviews Judkins gave he said the Lan/Rand sword training is still coming, maybe in the waste.. And WoT will be at NYCC comic con next week for some kind of big Prime Video thing. Maybe a season 4 announcement? S3 sneak peek?
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Oct 6, 2023 17:44
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Update on episode 8: Still owns
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Oct 6, 2023 17:46
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Hexel posted:There's just too much poo poo that needed to happen in that episode to give full weight to those kind of book moments. I didn't mean whiplash as a bad thing in that reference. I think it was very well crafted. Unless you mean the ingtar thing in which case yea
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Oct 6, 2023 17:54
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:That was hilarious. Ingtar tried his best, and that's the important part. He sort of helped. I guess.
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Oct 6, 2023 17:56
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Would have been hilarious though if Uno finds Loial and it's just like Where's Ingtar? He is dead. Dumb oval office 
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Oct 6, 2023 17:58
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^^^^ Lol that would have been fantastic. He did hold them for a while. But I feel like they felt they had to show him die on screen and someone watch him die on screen or else people would assume he's not dead. Which...is a fair assumption. I feel that if they were going to bail on his darkfriend thing, he should have just lived instead. Maybe he would have been one of the first to join Maseema's cult. Or filled in the role that Uno does later as "part of the cult but sorta not really just trying to keep an eye on my boy" thing. Unless the actor maybe couldn't commit to later seasons? gently caress, I dunno. Either way if they really wanted to hold 50 men there they should have fought in the tiny alley where he said it instead of the street.
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Oct 6, 2023 17:59
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