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Jezza of OZPOS posted:they would use the most pathetically reductive gotcha style debate tactics on them until they killed themselves You're saying that Hamas' end goal in this conflict is irrelevant? Do you think Lenin went into the revolution with no plan for how it was going to conclude?
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Oct 7, 2023 15:12
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fatherboxx posted:Dont think "its their turn for war crimes" rhetoric is going to win much in public opinion outside of terminally online circles Part of the basic problem is that only one side is regarded as human by the west, and therefore it isn’t considered “war crimes” when they’ve been doing far worse than anything we’ve seen today for seventy five years to the other. So either Palestinians are allowed the same right to self defense as anyone else, or they should just accept their deaths.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:14
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Saladman posted:All of what's happening is inside 1949-Israel boundaries. If you're under 80 years old and living in that area, then you're not a settler. i want you to think about how awesome it would be if an army of Japanese guerrilla started to occupy sections of California retail and residential space stolen from them during the internment
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Oct 7, 2023 15:15
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Anyone who started getting worked up about civilian deaths this morning specifically is clearly being disingenuous.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:15
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:You're saying that Hamas' end goal in this conflict is irrelevant? no i am saying you are a bad poster i hope this has clarified my position wrt how you are a walking sack of hammers
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Oct 7, 2023 15:17
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Just a heads up to UK goons, the UK government proscribed Hamas in its entirety as a terrorist organisation in 2021, which of course is absolutely loving ridiculous... but it means that UK peeps should be careful about what they post online, and craft your words accordingly. I don't know how strongly our multitude of antiterror laws will be policed compared to pro Islamic State posts etc, but seeing the way the UK government is already spinning this conflict (unpredictably 100% pro Israel), they might want to make some early examples of people, so post safely! fuctifino fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Oct 7, 2023 |
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Oct 7, 2023 15:18
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:You're saying that Hamas' end goal in this conflict is irrelevant? From Hamas' modern charter, introduced in 2017: quote:16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity. You're entirely within your right to doubt them, of course. Personally, I think Hamas seizing all of Israel is a pipe dream (then again I thought the same of Palestine reclaiming any territory), and this thought is worryingly similar to the Afrikaner charge that they could not provide equal rights, because then all the Africans would murder them.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:23
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fatherboxx posted:Dont think "its their turn for war crimes" rhetoric is going to win much in public opinion outside of terminally online circles Well it didn't work for Hillary... BUUNNI posted:I don’t think it’s possible for Iran to fund and arm the Palestinians in the same way the US and the west have armed and funded Israel’s military. Erm... yes? That was my point: they've stockpiled enough arms through their limited foreign support to launch an offensive but lack the domestic industry and scale of foreign support to sustain a prolonged war? I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with? Neurolimal posted:For what it's worth I've been pretty consistent on this in other D&D threads.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:27
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Al-Saqr posted:Colonialist Settlers who enforce apartheid at gunpoint and stole other peoples homes are not civilians. Hope this helps. Does this also apply to Russian settlers in Ukraine, especially Crimea?
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Oct 7, 2023 15:29
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I think we're far enough down the ethnic cleansing rabbithole that 'oh no this will provoke even more extreme brutality by the occupying powers' simply isn't a meaningful concern any more. The israeli government and their settler militias have made it clear that the death of the Palestinian people is coming one way or another - this is just them choosing the terms they want to go out on.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:31
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Palestinians should focus on peaceful protest. Yes, they'll get murdered anyway but it won't scare any settlers.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:35
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bad_fmr posted:Does this also apply to Russian settlers in Ukraine, especially Crimea? No their feelings can't be hurt of course (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 7, 2023 15:35
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Senor Tron posted:Israel have been poking the hornets nest with the expansion of settlements and displacements, but nothing justifies attacks on civilians like seem to be happening here. uh yeah this this thread is hosed up, good lord dudes really wearing their hamas lettermans thumbs uping opening fire into crowds of civies..neat stuff (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 7, 2023 15:35
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Is there any credit to the idea that Hamas (and Iran) were embolden to attack based off Russia invading Ukraine, or is it nonsense?
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Oct 7, 2023 15:36
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Willo567 posted:Is there any credit to the idea that Hamas (and Iran) were embolden to attack based off Russia invading Ukraine, or is it nonsense? I’m afraid that’s likely insane nonsense.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:38
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Willo567 posted:Is there any credit to the idea that Hamas (and Iran) were embolden to attack based off Russia invading Ukraine, or is it nonsense? The mere fact of Russia invading Ukraine? No. Not at all. There's dozens of wars more likely to inspire this. The realities of the Ukraine war draining Western munitions? Possible. The revelation that Western gear isn't impenetrable super-equipment? Maybe emboldened them to perform a ground offensive. That's as far as I'd go.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:40
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Tigey posted:
Palestinians have evidently been in a prolonged war for many years now.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:42
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Neurolimal posted:You're entirely within your right to doubt them, of course. they indiscriminately murdered civilians so i have my doubts!
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Oct 7, 2023 15:46
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nivdes posted:they indiscriminately murdered civilians so i have my doubts! Better to go with the guys who've already murdered many times as many civilians with way more capacity to avoid that happening?
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Oct 7, 2023 15:49
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Nucleic Acids posted:So either Palestinians are allowed the same right to self defense as anyone else, or they should just accept their deaths. Retaliatory mass murder isn't self-defense. We are going to see much more of it this week, and it won't be self defense, it will still be an atrocity
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Oct 7, 2023 15:51
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nivdes posted:they indiscriminately murdered civilians so i have my doubts! Anyone who made the choice to move to a settlement is not a civilian.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:51
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How exactly do the settlers in this thread expect Palestine to react to occupation, colonization, and genocide? When they protest peacefully as in 2018 the Israeli’s gun them down anyways. And calling violent resistance to occupation “war crimes”? If we were in the 20th century you all would be applying both-sides centrism to the entirety of the anti-colonial liberation movements. Why won’t the ANC stop committing terrorism against innocent Afrikaner civilians? The Algerians are committing war crimes in the French Quarter! Neither the Portuguese nor the MPLA! As always white settler liberals stand on the wrong side of history.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:52
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TheDoublePivot posted:I’m afraid that’s likely insane nonsense. Hamas visited Russia back in March https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1710644218803192279 https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1710602189314420751
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Oct 7, 2023 15:52
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Neurolimal posted:From Hamas' modern charter, introduced in 2017: 16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity. Hmm, how does that fit in exactly with firing hundreds of rockets indiscriminately into Tel Aviv? oh right, these "roe" are absolute bullshit, give me a break. i gotta remember that 90% of posters who are cheering on any civilian death on either side don't either live in the region or have family there in any capacity..I'm sure your tone would change real fast. gently caress targeting civilians, i don't care which nationalism you want to evoke to pathetically champion it. supporting any of that is really gross, regardless of why or how.. 
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Oct 7, 2023 15:54
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 7, 2023 15:55
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Willo567 posted:Hamas visited Russia back in March Putin is very careful vis-a-vis Israel because of Syria and he enjoys that Israel has been mostly fence-sitting during the war in Ukraine (only token diplomatic support + humanitarian assistance to Ukraine) so the idea that Hamas got support or coordination from Russia sounds completely unrealistic.
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Oct 7, 2023 15:59
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Mischievous Mink posted:Better to go with the guys who've already murdered many times as many civilians with way more capacity to avoid that happening? Nucleic Acids posted:Anyone who made the choice to move to a settlement is not a civilian.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:02
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BUUNNI posted:Palestinians have evidently been in a prolonged war for many years now. And in that very same post I say exactly this - that the conflict has been raging since 1948 and has been mostly one sided throughout that time. Whilst Hamas has overtly gone on the offensive today, it cannot sustain this level or intensity of operations indefinitely. In general the events of today (in terms of Hamas being on the offensive, and any war crimes it does in the process) are a momentary ahistorical blip, and although any war crimes committed today are bad, they should also not be blown out of proportion, as they aren't representative of the conflict to date. Nor are they likely to be anywhere near on the same scale as what Israel is likely to do in the coming days/weeks/months/years.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:02
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Nucleic Acids posted:Anyone who made the choice to move to a settlement is not a civilian. haha sucks that you're being hauled off against your will but maybe your great grandparents shouldn't have moved here
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Oct 7, 2023 16:03
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Senjuro posted:Is every town in Israel a settlement or does it actually have some legitimate borders? I'm not clear. It’s all Palestine from the river to the sea. There isn’t a square inch in “Israel” that isn’t illegally occupied
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Oct 7, 2023 16:04
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Senjuro posted:This knee jerk reaction of "if you condemn one side you must approve of the other" is so goddamn tiring. Who said you have to "go" with either? Do you think both sides are equally condemnable? Or what?
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Oct 7, 2023 16:04
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Red and Black posted:How exactly do the settlers in this thread expect Palestine to react to occupation, colonization, and genocide? When they protest peacefully as in 2018 the Israeli’s gun them down anyways. And calling violent resistance to occupation “war crimes”? I dunno, maybe by not gunning down a bunch of civilians in their homes? There’s a lot of room for actions that are between "lay down and be brutalized" and "go brutally murder the children of your oppressors". If the militants I dunno, forced everyone out of their home and told them to walk barefoot towards the north and then torched their homes, I’d have much less of a reaction to it, kind of like how Armenians self-ethnic cleanse out of Nagorno Karabakh with their cars and stuff is a lot less horrifying than the Masalit being raped and murdered out of Darfur.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:06
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nivdes posted:haha sucks that you're being hauled off against your will but maybe your great grandparents shouldn't have moved here Seeing as the Nakba never actually stopped, I don’t think this is an intellectually honest argument to make.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:07
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For what it's worth, I've been pro-Palestine and sympathetic to Hamas & Gaza for over a decade, and I still think its gauche to go "all israelis are settlers, death to settlers" when many goons in this thread are in fact Israelis who are close to now being in a war zone.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:07
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Red and Black posted:It’s all Palestine from the river to the sea. There isn’t a square inch in “Israel” that isn’t illegally occupied Actually it is the Roman province of Judea so every Palestinian is also just a settler.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:09
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Willo567 posted:Is there any credit to the idea that Hamas (and Iran) were embolden to attack based off Russia invading Ukraine, or is it nonsense? And I think this is also why I see current situation can't go on, and Israel needs to find political situation sooner or later because they can't win militarily. All the walls or fences or checkpoints can't defend against low cost drones that can be launched from hundreds of kilometers away, and no military has yet found a good defense against $500 consumer drone and $50 hand grenade. They could of course jam GPS and all the common frequencies those drones use, but modern society is so accustomed to their smartphones that it would be quite disruptive to daily life.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:11
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Nucleic Acids posted:Anyone who made the choice to move to a settlement is not a civilian. This isn't the West Bank. People's whose grandparents or great grandparents moved to Israel deserve to be shot? I can understand the anger about people being mad about war crimes only on one side but you don't have to go as far as to imply it's okay to murder children cuz they're in the wrong place.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:12
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Mischievous Mink posted:Do you think both sides are equally condemnable? Or what? Online discussions wouldn't be so exhausting if people just stopped putting words in everyone else's mouths.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:12
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Why don't the stateless civilians defending themselves from genocide only go after military targets equipped with the best hardware and training on the planet?
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Oct 7, 2023 16:13
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i thought the type of posts that are on this page are meant to go in General Bullshit? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 7, 2023 16:15
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