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Who should I build next? Here's who I have built already (bottom row included): Trying to decide between:
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Oct 12, 2023 00:51
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| # ? May 27, 2024 21:40 |
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AParadox posted:How does Seele not knowing who are the people that barged through the town, seized the mine and trapped those inside make it any better? Kanos posted:It's really completely immaterial whether Seele knows who the IPC are or not, because their actions are the same. I don't think Seele would go "oh, those black armored stormtroopers are from the IPC, I see, that means I'm going to let them beat people up and occupy their homes and places of work" if she knew. That was in response to the original quote which said she did it because The IPC invaded the mine while they were supposed to be negotiating. She had no idea there were even negotiations going on. That doesn't change anything from Seele's POV--we know she's a "beat up first, ask questions later" person from the Belobog story--I was just refuting an incorrectness quote:As for the latter, Topaz is very clearly hoping for the best while planning for the worst. In her view, the optimal outcome of her plan is that Bronya signs the contract and everyone in Belobog becomes IPC property and then the IPC tries to fix the planet. If Bronya refuses, then they enter into debt collection mode, which is why she's doing things like appraising the art pieces in the museum and figuring out where Belobog's hidden supply of combat robots is located. The entire point is that she wants the former to happen but if the people of Belobog refuse her terms she will absolutely resort to harsher measures. She's not going to gleefully genocide them, but she will take everything they have of significant economic value to settle the debt, and if they resist she will resort to violence to ensure her job gets done. The IPC didn't show up with a bunch of guys with guns and power armor for no reason. And I'm not saying there wouldn't have been morally gross consequences. I was simply objecting to your interpretation of her character as "if they resist, she will kill them". I very much doubt she'd do more than needed to extract whatever she deemed was valuable, and I very strongly expect that her next step after failing to convince Bronya would've been to appeal to the populace, offer them the same sort of deal at a worse rate. I'm not disagreeing with you about your assessment of Topaz as a whole, just quibbling with some of the details. I just don't think a single setback would make her shrug and give up on her goal. EDIT: Meowywitch posted:I wish we got to kick her rear end Agreed.
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Oct 12, 2023 00:52
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I wish we got to kick her rear end At least once
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Oct 12, 2023 00:52
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Edly posted:Who should I build next? Here's who I have built already (bottom row included): I would go Pela. Defense shred is a bit weird in that it gets better the more of it you have, so she pairs well with SW to give you some comically large numbers.
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Oct 12, 2023 00:55
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Zurai posted:And I'm not saying there wouldn't have been morally gross consequences. I was simply objecting to your interpretation of her character as "if they resist, she will kill them". I very much doubt she'd do more than needed to extract whatever she deemed was valuable, and I very strongly expect that her next step after failing to convince Bronya would've been to appeal to the populace, offer them the same sort of deal at a worse rate. I guess I don't really see any real difference between "Topaz directly shoots the people in the head" and "Topaz leads an operation that steals everything of material value, including things the Belobogians need to live, and has demonstrated that she will resort to violence if resisted". If the IPC takes the mine, the city will become uninhabitable. If the IPC takes all the robots, the people of Belobog will get killed by leftover fragmentum monsters and/or fail to produce enough geomarrow to continue living. She would still be effectively ordering their deaths, it's just that one is direct and sudden and the other is drawn out and torturous. Topaz's approach is that the IPC will get its due, come hell or high water. She's personally interested in seeing that it's a "nice" outcome, but if she can't get that "nice" outcome, she's not going to give up, she'll just use a not "nice" approach instead. Again, they showed up with a bunch of dudes with guns and power armor. That suggests Topaz understands that this situation might come down to a violent resolution. Kanos fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 00:58
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Zurai posted:That was in response to the original quote which said she did it because The IPC invaded the mine while they were supposed to be negotiating. She had no idea there were even negotiations going on. That doesn't change anything from Seele's POV--we know she's a "beat up first, ask questions later" person from the Belobog story--I was just refuting an incorrectness  They didn't even give them time to warn not to resist them, surely nobody could see that escalating.
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Oct 12, 2023 01:01
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Kanos posted:I guess I don't really see any real difference between "Topaz directly shoots the people in the head" and "Topaz leads an operation that steals everything of material value, including things the Belobogians need to live, and has demonstrated that she will resort to violence if resisted". If the IPC takes the mine, the city will become uninhabitable. If the IPC takes all the robots, the people of Belobog will get killed by leftover fragmentum monsters and/or fail to produce enough geomarrow to continue living. She would still be effectively ordering their deaths, it's just that one is direct and sudden and the other is drawn out and torturous. Re-read the final sentence of my spoiler. Nevermind, I'll just repeat the relevant part. I very strongly expect that her next step after failing to convince Bronya would've been to appeal to the populace, offer them the same sort of deal at a worse rate. Nobody in game expresses even a shred of disbelief about Topaz's stated goal, and even Himeko, IIRC, says she believes she's genuine. Topaz wants to save the planet and its people. She's not going to stop at the first setback. She's got backup plans that don't involve the direct antithesis of her goal. And I'm not debating that her definition of "saving" is to end up with everyone in perpetual indentured servitude to the IPC. But to her explicitly-stated perspective, that's far better than being dead. Dead is a last resort for her, not the second. AParadox posted:I ment negotiations between Belobog and Topaz in general. And I've just check, she absolutely knew what was going on in the underworld. "She" referred to Seele, not Topaz.
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Oct 12, 2023 01:05
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AParadox posted:The fact that Numby was there waiting for us makes me think she likely knew and made the dock pay order to defuse the situation. Numby might be the one that coaxed the ICP officers, and is actually the evil one
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Oct 12, 2023 01:07
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Meowywitch posted:I wish we got to kick her rear end 
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Oct 12, 2023 01:10
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Zurai posted:Re-read the final sentence of my spoiler. Nevermind, I'll just repeat the relevant part. I very strongly expect that her next step after failing to convince Bronya would've been to appeal to the populace, offer them the same sort of deal at a worse rate. That's plausible, but it's not really said or hinted at anywhere in the actual narrative. What we have is Topaz pushing her nice guy agenda while simultaneously setting up for the bad guy agenda at the same time. In your scenario, her appealing directly to the populace is basically going to light off a civil war, because if Bronya(and half the Architects, apparently, given the argument scene we see) reject her and she goes "fine i'll appeal directly to the people", the people who initially rejected her are going to publicly speak out against that offer for the same reasons they rejected it in the first place. Topaz's desire to save the Belobogians(in her own way) is not in doubt and I've never said it was. The point I keep belaboring is that her loyalty to the IPC is greater than her desire to see the Belobogians saved, and she will ultimately do her duty to the IPC even if the chips fall in a way she doesn't prefer. Kanos fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 01:14
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I'm getting my rear end handed to me by Peppy
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Oct 12, 2023 01:35
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Can’t wait to roll for Topaz even with all the story
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Oct 12, 2023 01:52
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Meowywitch posted:I wish we got to kick her rear end As a Touhou fan, honestly I can't even respect someone who isn't a full boss fight.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:04
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MotU posted:Can’t wait to roll for Topaz even with all the story Same.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:08
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Next year's festival is going to have IPC staging a colony drop on Belobog EDIT: oh god the animation when you use the overworld attack in a pokemon stage is pure chuuni poo poo Traveller fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 02:22
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topaz owns also wonder what the venn diagram of "topaz is turbo evil" and "kafka is actually the hero if you think about it" looks like
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Oct 12, 2023 02:22
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UHD posted:topaz owns that's just cspam
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Oct 12, 2023 02:25
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Kanos posted:That's plausible, but it's not really said or hinted at anywhere in the actual narrative. What we have is Topaz pushing her nice guy agenda while simultaneously setting up for the bad guy agenda at the same time. In your scenario, her appealing directly to the populace is basically going to light off a civil war, because if Bronya(and half the Architects, apparently, given the argument scene we see) reject her and she goes "fine i'll appeal directly to the people", the people who initially rejected her are going to publicly speak out against that offer for the same reasons they rejected it in the first place. Like I said, I don't think we disagree for the most part. We're just quibbling about degrees of darkness in her character. I think she's a little less wholehearted about it than you do is all. In specific, I think her loyalty to the IPC isn't quite as strong as you seem to. I do agree that if all the dominoes fell against her design, she'd end up doing her job and draining the planet dry. I just think, given her beliefs, actions, and responses to her peers, that she'd have tried to salvage the situation a little longer than you do.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:28
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Zurai posted:Like I said, I don't think we disagree for the most part. We're just quibbling about degrees of darkness in her character. I think she's a little less wholehearted about it than you do is all. In specific, I think her loyalty to the IPC isn't quite as strong as you seem to. I do agree that if all the dominoes fell against her design, she'd end up doing her job and draining the planet dry. I just think, given her beliefs, actions, and responses to her peers, that she'd have tried to salvage the situation a little longer than you do. Yeah, I think that's where we're at. The nice thing is that we're going to see some kind of proof one way or another when the story moves forward, because we're clearly setting up an "IPC is the big bad of the next story arc and Topaz is going to be involved in some way" situation, so we'll see how far her loyalty goes.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:33
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So that ipc guard named Barrie at the aetherium wars event area gives out some upgrade chips and a couple spirits, just in case you're like me and completely forgot to talk to him.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:37
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Clarste posted:As a Touhou fan, honestly I can't even respect someone who isn't a full boss fight. Yeah! you beat the crap out of someone then you have a tea party, that's how it's supposed to go It's friendship through blood
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Oct 12, 2023 02:38
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Meowywitch posted:Yeah! you beat the crap out of someone then you have a tea party, that's how it's supposed to go Ah the Nanoha method.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:40
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MadHat posted:Ah the Nanoha method. Where's my Teriteri expy drat it?!
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Oct 12, 2023 02:43
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Kanos posted:The nice thing is that we're going to see some kind of proof one way or another when the story moves forward, because we're clearly setting up an "IPC is the big bad of the next story arc and Topaz is going to be involved in some way" situation, so we'll see how far her loyalty goes. 100% agreed there
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Oct 12, 2023 02:46
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Kanos posted:because we're clearly setting up an "IPC is the big bad of the next story arc and Topaz is going to be involved in some way" situation, so we'll see how far her loyalty goes. At the very least they wouldn't have designed brand new IPC enemies if we weren't going to be fighting a lot of them soon.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:47
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I dunno about brand new, they're reskinned silvermane guards. point remains valid tho,
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Oct 12, 2023 02:49
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The big suit IPC guys at least have some custom animation/SFX work.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:56
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They also have their own combat gimmicks.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:57
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i wonder how close to pity i am
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Oct 12, 2023 03:00
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Meowywitch posted:i wonder how close to pity i am  Nice? Is soft pity at 75? or is that only a genshin thing
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Oct 12, 2023 03:04
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Edly posted:Who should I build next? Here's who I have built already (bottom row included): Pela 100%. Def shred is amazingly powerful and with an ER rope+Before the Tutorial LC she can easily have 100% uptime.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:13
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Pela it is!
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Oct 12, 2023 03:14
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Pela is also super cheap to build to MoC levels of efficacy, because most of her traces are functionally useless for her role as "defense shred and sometimes a dispel", so you can pump her to 70, give her a bunch of hp/speed gear/energy regen, and she's functionally good to go.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:17
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Even though I'm not that into her character, I'll probably roll on Topaz just because she fills a niche I really want (Hunt + fire DPS). I also want an Ice DPS, but I'm full up on good AoE Destruction damage-dealers.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:19
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oh man i just found and did the final part of Cyrille's quest after all this time that is a hosed up questline. Meowywitch fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 03:23
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Meowywitch posted:oh man i just found and did the final part of Cyrille's quest after all this time There was something in the museum too after that. If you can still get in there. A painting of her.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:31
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Kale posted:Jingliu kind of feels like the Akuma of Star Rail in terms of her value system with regard to sword fighting. Jing Yuan kind of feels like he's the Ryu, while Blade is Evil Ryu. I guess that makes Yanqing the Dan Hibiki in all of this cause with all that jobbing he ain't no Sakura despite being Jing Yuan's disciple. So does this make DanIL the Ken of HSR? He's not nearly hot-headed enough, though.... GateOfD posted:Sushang is Sakura 
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Oct 12, 2023 03:31
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Meowywitch posted:oh man i just found and did the final part of Cyrille's quest after all this time That one and the woman from Bailu's companion quest were two that just made me feel real bad after I finished the quests, not going to lie.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:34
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Eimi posted:Where's my Teriteri expy drat it?! please
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Oct 12, 2023 03:34
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| # ? May 27, 2024 21:40 |
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I caved and got the sexy ice lady.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:38
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