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the solution is have a new msq quest that covers the exact same ground as the role quest one and if youve already done it they put a sepia filter over the entire game to indicate its an echo flashback
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Oct 13, 2023 04:53
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Yeah, Cylva just isn't reasonable as a roadblock for MSQ, the Crystal Tower is barely reasonable as it is (especially because why it's a roadblock is awkward in of itself to explain blind). You could force Unulkuhai, and if they make the Thirteenth a Foray Zone story then it's possible to say "Yo do the Warring Triad" and fudge the Cylvia intro a little based on whether you have or have not done that part of the story.
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Oct 13, 2023 04:54
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It's not only the four level 80s, though that's the actual strictest requirement. You not only have to have done the Warring Triad quest line but also complete all of Unukalhai's quests, which includes actually clearing the Extreme versions of Bismark and Ravanna. They're easily done at level cap, but not quite so much at 60, and the devs wouldn't put more Extremes as a requirement in front of new players. That'd be a pretty big hurdle after adding DSS for dungeons. (They'd just change the quests to reward the unlock instead of requiring a successful clear, honestly, but that wouldn't get around the multiple 80s so there's not much point.)
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Oct 13, 2023 05:06
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It's not just four level 80s, it's four level 80s, each in a completely different role. Some people are absolutely going to hate playing one role over another even if they can grok a new class's rotation.
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Oct 13, 2023 05:32
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Super No Vacancy posted:the solution is have a new msq quest that covers the exact same ground as the role quest one and if youve already done it they put a sepia filter over the entire game to indicate its an echo flashback This or just have a quest that skips some scenes if you've already done the role quests. If the devs want to do more XIII but with Cylva and Unualkhai they'd be able to do it fine.
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Oct 13, 2023 05:35
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McCloud posted:Ok yeah I see your point. See I just kind of assumed everyone would already have four lvl 80 jobs at this point Hyper Inferno posted:It's not just four level 80s, it's four level 80s, each in a completely different role. Some people are absolutely going to hate playing one role over another even if they can grok a new class's rotation. For what it's worth, cracking out XIVCollect: Out of people with enough investment in completionism that they're in that database in the first place, only 40% have Tales to the Told, the Cylva quest achievement. That's actually higher than I thought, and it's still lower than the percentage for completing Bozja, or any Extreme older than Endsinger. EDIT: Friends in Deed, for the Void Quest itself that has no other requirements is at 33%; that's less than the amount of people who have ever completed 012S. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 05:57
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Hyper Inferno posted:It's not just four level 80s, it's four level 80s, each in a completely different role. Some people are absolutely going to hate playing one role over another even if they can grok a new class's rotation. That's true. I actually leveled a sage just for that questline, and I picked sage because it already started at level...60, was it? Really not a fan of the healer role. It did come in handy for the endwalker role quest though, so that's nice.
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Oct 13, 2023 06:04
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McCloud posted:That's true. I actually leveled a sage just for that questline, and I picked sage because it already started at level...60, was it? Really not a fan of the healer role. It did come in handy for the endwalker role quest though, so that's nice. Sage begins at 70. Ever since SB, jobs begin at 20 below the expansion cap.
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Oct 13, 2023 06:09
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The hosed up thing about role quests is EW forcing me to level a physical ranged class and I still haven’t gotten around to it.
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Oct 13, 2023 06:14
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Dawntrail further divides the role quests to require a pure healer and a shield healer to get to the "all role quests" completed capstone.
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Oct 13, 2023 06:25
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Hogama posted:Dawntrail further divides the role quests to require a pure healer and a shield healer to get to the "all role quests" completed capstone. All DPS categories are further subdivided into selfish/support. Tanks are divided between "short mit with charges" (DRK, PLD) and "short mit without charges" (WAR, GNB).
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Oct 13, 2023 06:34
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NachtSieger posted:All DPS categories are further subdivided into selfish/support. Tanks are divided between "short mit with charges" (DRK, PLD) and "short mit without charges" (WAR, GNB). Meanwhile with the crafters, Weaver and Goldsmith somehow get grouped in with ALC/CUL and made to do quests that, if we're completely honest, are just CUL storylines.
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Oct 13, 2023 06:47
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Cleretic posted:Meanwhile with the crafters, Weaver and Goldsmith somehow get grouped in with ALC/CUL and made to do quests that, if we're completely honest, are just CUL storylines. ? The three crafting storylines in ShB and EW are metalworking (Blacksmith/Armorer/Goldsmith), food science and some pharmacology (Alchemist/Culinarian), and "other" (Weaver/Carpenter/Leatherworker). The third is the last unified for sure, although I think ShB did a good job with the antiques-restoration angle.
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Oct 13, 2023 06:52
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Antivehicular posted:? The three crafting storylines in ShB and EW are metalworking (Blacksmith/Armorer/Goldsmith), food science and some pharmacology (Alchemist/Culinarian), and "other" (Weaver/Carpenter/Leatherworker). The third is the last unified for sure, although I think ShB did a good job with the antiques-restoration angle. ...Yeah. The joke was that while we're jokingly dividing role quests up even further, the crafter quests are being grouped up even further despite that making even less sense, and I focused it on the part that's already the big problem with their groupings. Am I seriously so bad at telling jokes that you can't even tell when I'm making one?
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Oct 13, 2023 07:30
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Cleretic posted:...Yeah. The joke was that while we're jokingly dividing role quests up even further, the crafter quests are being grouped up even further despite that making even less sense, and I focused it on the part that's already the big problem with their groupings. Because most people don't think the ALC/CUL questlines are just Culinarian questlines in the first place and that's been a pan you've been banging on for a while?
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Oct 13, 2023 08:01
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Cleretic posted:Meanwhile with the crafters, Weaver and Goldsmith somehow get grouped in with ALC/CUL and made to do quests that, if we're completely honest, are just CUL storylines. And then there's Fisher, forever separate from everything else. "Please bring me either magitek sewing machine, special aetherconductive fiber or... eh, some toad, dunno."
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Oct 13, 2023 08:22
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Cleretic posted:...Yeah. The joke was that while we're jokingly dividing role quests up even further, the crafter quests are being grouped up even further despite that making even less sense, and I focused it on the part that's already the big problem with their groupings. "Just saying something incorrect" is not actually a joke
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Oct 13, 2023 08:33
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Lord_Magmar posted:Because most people don't think the ALC/CUL questlines are just Culinarian questlines in the first place and that's been a pan you've been banging on for a while? I think the problem that I have seen people agree on isn't the general concept of the quests excluding ALC (although I think they've already run out of spaces those two can share), but that the actual beat-by-beat writing overfocuses CUL to the exclusion of ALC. For the most part you can kinda quint and go 'yeah, I guess that's good enough', but both ShB and EW's storylines for them each have at least one step where it's just 'gently caress it, make this person some food, there isn't even a pretense of chemistry going on you're just feeding a guy'. And both of them kinda break me out of any tolerance of the union there, at that point I just start realizing that I'm not playing an ALC/CUL storyline, I'm playing a CUL storyline with concessions. The problem isn't that you can't write a storyline about nutrition or food science that feels like an ALC story for the players going through it on ALC, the problem is that they didn't. A friend of mine once suggested combining CUL with different crafters every expansion instead. They've all got about as much connection to cooking as alchemy does, and trying to make something like CRP/CUL work would probably be more interesting. Dwesa posted:And then there's Fisher, forever separate from everything else. "Please bring me either magitek sewing machine, special aetherconductive fiber or... eh, some toad, dunno." Fisher's eternally too weirdly apart from everything to ever get combined with anything, and we're all better off for it. Even the few times where they actually do try it in the gatherer tribe quests are visibly struggling, and it's great. In fact, if anything it's Fisher that would actually match best with CUL in terms of making a single storyline that fits as a story for both, but then you'd hit the problem of what you give as rewards. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 11:00
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Just remove fisher from the game imo
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Oct 13, 2023 11:26
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Cleretic posted:A friend of mine once suggested combining CUL with different crafters every expansion instead. They've all got about as much connection to cooking as alchemy does, and trying to make something like CRP/CUL work would probably be more interesting. Just wanna say that the idea that CUL and ALC have nothing to do with each other is incomprehensible to me as a baking fan. Half of what cookery is is applied physics and chemistry in a culinary setting! If you think carpentry has as much to do with cookery as alchemy, I'm never eating tea at your house: I'd get splinters in my mouth.
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Oct 13, 2023 11:34
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Clearly it's not an Alchemist quest line unless it ends either with someone rising from the dead and/or justice being dispensed to criminals, so ShB ALC/CUL already qualifies, but EW ALC/CUL should end with us baking the Philosopher's Scone to beckon the ghost of Mervyn back from the aetherial sea to tell his rival he regrets nothing about his quest for flavor
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Oct 13, 2023 11:36
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Antivehicular posted:Clearly it's not an Alchemist quest line unless it ends either with someone rising from the dead and/or justice being dispensed to criminals, so ShB ALC/CUL already qualifies, but EW ALC/CUL should end with us baking the Philosopher's Scone to beckon the ghost of Mervyn back from the aetherial sea to tell his rival he regrets nothing about his quest for flavor Anything is possible with sufficient Bread Science.
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Oct 13, 2023 11:47
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Cleretic posted:ALC/CUL On the other hand there's the loporrit quest line where i was cooking up machine and radio parts in my frying pan. Which I'm not actually complaining about that stuff was funny each time.
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Oct 13, 2023 12:26
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FunkyFjord posted:On the other hand there's the loporrit quest line where i was cooking up machine and radio parts in my frying pan. The promotion quests for the loporrits (and I believe the other crafters but I only noticed it for the loporrits) actually did have different descriptions for what each job was making, I believe divided in the same way that the facet and studium quests did. I don't remember every single one, but I was surprised that all the ALC/CUL ones actually did feasibly read as things ALC would make: machine oil, paints, soaps. If anything, most of those probably felt bad for CUL. But then again, the tribe quests always felt kinda too silly to judge like that. Thinking about the question of all the multi-class/job questlines, I've realized the struggle that I have: I think that they should be written as 'A or B', rather than 'A and B'. It's unlikely that someone's going to be hopping jobs during a questline, so the goal of the physical ranged questline shouldn't be a storyline that incorporates Machinist, Bard and Dancer; it should be a storyline that plays equally well as a Machinist, Bard, or Dancer. Sometimes those are one and the same (the ShB role quests are like that, the BSM/ARM/GSM quests don't have to worry), but it doesn't always work out like that. The WVR/CRP/LTW Studium questline is a great example of the 'A or B' approach: if you try to imagine a single astronomy device that all those three crafters can contribute to (and only those crafters) it just sounds weird, but if you instead approach the hypothetical as 'an ancient tool for astronomy made mostly with the material this one class works with' it clicks. It's also why the EW role quests are allocated really well: with every role in a region that none of its constituent jobs fit into, there's no risk of the tank questline becoming a Paladin quest that the other tanks just got invited to. My problem with the ALC/CUL storylines is that they're 'ALC and CUL', but not 'ALC or CUL'. ...and as an unrelated thing, I just now realized that if we're right and the new physical DPS job is some grade of Corsair, that actually breaks that balance for EW's role quests, because Corsair is absolutely calling Limsa home in the way the other melee DPS aren't!
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Oct 13, 2023 13:43
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They should just make the raids and alliance raids mandatory to unlock the next expansion. Literally no reason not to do this tbh.
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Oct 13, 2023 13:55
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MechaX posted:Not knowing Cylva I get, but did you not do the Warring Triad quest Nope. And I don't play Tanks or Healers, so no Role Quests for them, so no Role Quest Capstone, either. McCloud posted:It feels like this is all easily solvable by making the Cylva quest a prerequisite for continuing the Zero quest, no? It's not like it would be without precedence, they did it with that Tataru quest. I had to go back and do the sky pirate questline with the void ark alliance quest. That's why I'll never do Tataru's quest. I have no interest in any of that stuff. Cleretic posted:...you realize that Zero's quest at the point we're talking about is the MSQ, right? Yeah, forcing CT for Shadowbringers was bad enough. If they do something like that again, I'd probably quit. Ibram Gaunt posted:They should just make the raids and alliance raids mandatory to unlock the next expansion. Literally no reason not to do this tbh. This would also make me quit.
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Oct 13, 2023 14:20
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Ibram Gaunt posted:They should just make the raids and alliance raids mandatory to unlock the next expansion. Literally no reason not to do this tbh. Lots of people don't want to do them. They don't like that sort of content.
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Oct 13, 2023 14:25
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Kheldarn posted:Nope. And I don't play Tanks or Healers, so no Role Quests for them, so no Role Quest Capstone, either. Why play a story based game if you're going to avoid so much story? I mean at least the hardcore raiders have an excuse for skipping everything
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Oct 13, 2023 14:28
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It's fine, let people play the way they want.
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Oct 13, 2023 14:31
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Imo they just need to occasionally be willing to bite the bullet and include characters form optional content in msq if appropriate. They already did this with crystal tower before going back and making it mandatory and I think if done right, maybe with an optional summary of the side stories plot made available, most people wouldn't care.
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Oct 13, 2023 14:31
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Just say a different, stronger, and cooler WoL handled all the side content you didn't finish
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Oct 13, 2023 14:34
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Countblanc posted:Just say a different, stronger, and cooler WoL handled all the side content you didn't finish Hoary Boulder!?
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Oct 13, 2023 14:43
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No, Martyn (revealed in 7.45)
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Oct 13, 2023 14:45
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sweet geek swag posted:Lots of people don't want to do them. They don't like that sort of content. Normal modes are easier than 8 man trials you're already required to do by the story. It is literally no different lol.
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Oct 13, 2023 14:48
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Countblanc posted:No, Martyn (revealed in 7.45) Lmao, I've been that broke rear end WoL. Hailed as a hero by all but with nary a gil to their name. Couch surfing across Eorzea and beyond.
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Oct 13, 2023 14:49
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If you are going to quit because the game wants you to do a 20 minute alliance raid 3 times an expansion then frankly you have bigger problems. It's dumb as hell to have major events happen in raids and then be unable to ever effectively reference it ever again due to optional content. edit: Or just make it so events from the raids will be referenced with a disclaimer saying tough poo poo if you refuse to do the content you'll have to deal with it mattering in the story. Ibram Gaunt fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 14:49
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Kheldarn posted:Nope. And I don't play Tanks or Healers, so no Role Quests for them, so no Role Quest Capstone, either. They should do it.
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Oct 13, 2023 15:01
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What they should do is use whatever characters they need for the story they want to tell, and just let people who skipped stuff be confused
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Oct 13, 2023 15:16
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While you probably want to signpost/remind/coach things, the alliance raids generally have not involved primals, and up until Endwalker it was pretty much WOL CURES PRIMALS I could be remembering wrong but it was like: hosed up Allagan magiscience; regular if huge voidsent; Final Fantasy Tactics; Nier; the Twelve. None of these involved the guys who temper you a lot.
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Oct 13, 2023 15:17
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| # ? May 20, 2024 04:27 |
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Kheldarn posted:Nope. And I don't play Tanks or Healers, so no Role Quests for them, so no Role Quest Capstone, either. They should force all the alliance raids to weed out this sorta dork
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Oct 13, 2023 15:28
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