[P/I] American engineering is pierless

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(Thread IKs: Zodium, John Charity Spring, really queer Christmas)

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

speaking of airplane provisions, what does Israel�s stock of bombs look like?

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:24

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# ? May 26, 2024 01:19

Goon Boots: Feb 2, 2020

they look like normal bombs but with a little yarmulke on the tip

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:26

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

the official goon boots memorial thread

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:28

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

dead gay comedy forums posted:

one seriously important aspect of ideology to figure out (in case it hasn't been noticed or realized) is that human beings are totally contradictory and ideology is loving irrational

and indeed, this is one of the very few advantages a marxist has: the awareness of the ideological condition, that affects themselves as well. reason is a paltry god, it gets totally loving trounced by ideology, which is why nobody gets in a political debate and suddenly "oh wow I totally see it now" and renounces their position and ideas. nobody is won through that way

like well said here,

just skip past any idea of rational discourse and see what's been conveyed through the lines, the vast majority of people think about those situations in terms of absolutist moralism (which in endemic to neoliberalism) and regard those matters simply as "good" versus "evil". People really want to be with the good guys, which is why squaring the circle happens. By taking out from that framing and showing stuff as historical circumstance, that no such conflict is possible because people ultimately cannot be reduced into simply good or bad, is an effective way to foster consciousness

I don't know, I became a Marxist-Leninist through reasoned debate. It was because an anarchist was trying to read Lenin as a misunderstood anarchist, so I read Lenin and realised they were a loving idiot and Lenin was right.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:28

Canned Sunshine: Nov 20, 2005; CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Goon Boots posted:

they look like normal bombs but with a little yarmulke on the tip

That's to cover up the stubbed nose since a bit of the tip is missing.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:31

Centrist Dad: Nov 13, 2007; When I see your posting; College Slice

Hamas played right into Israel's hands with their grandma-abducting agenda. Israel has been waiting for decades for an excuse to liquidate Gaza, and now they have one. The only thing standing in the way of Israeli bloodlust was always Hamas's moral high ground, and now that Hamas doesn't have it any more they're toast.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:31

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

Centrist Dad posted:

Hamas played right into Israel's hands with their grandma-abducting agenda. Israel has been waiting for decades for an excuse to liquidate Gaza, and now they have one. The only thing standing in the way of Israeli bloodlust was always Hamas's moral high ground, and now that Hamas doesn't have it any more they're toast.

am i getting syd'd off right now

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:33

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Centrist Dad posted:

Hamas played right into Israel's hands with their grandma-abducting agenda. Israel has been waiting for decades for an excuse to liquidate Gaza, and now they have one. The only thing standing in the way of Israeli bloodlust was always Hamas's moral high ground, and now that Hamas doesn't have it any more they're toast.

Hot drat. That is one extremely shitlib SYQ!

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:36

4d3d3d: Mar 17, 2017

Centrist Dad posted:

Hamas played right into Israel's hands with their grandma-abducting agenda. Israel has been waiting for decades for an excuse to liquidate Gaza, and now they have one. The only thing standing in the way of Israeli bloodlust was always Hamas's moral high ground, and now that Hamas doesn't have it any more they're toast.

Agreed. Stop hitting yourselves, Palestinians, stop hitting yourselves

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:36

1stGear: Jan 16, 2010; Here's to the new us.

Xaris posted:

am i getting syd'd off right now

Excuse me, I'm just a little ignorant Israeli, not wise in the ways of the international left, I have conceded many years ago that there are some forms of genocide in which the population constantly increases, there are some forms of genocide in which a region has some of the highest birthrates in the world, I mean it makes no lick of sense to me but I know this is because I am just too stupid and brainwashed to understand these things and so I concede that such genocides exists, with that said, I am a little bit confused as to how is it possible that the israeli indiscriminate death from above genocide machine didn't at any point during the 70 years of conflict murder as many civilians (or anyone at all period) like the brave hamas fighters who only target civilians out of despair did in a matter of hours on Saturday morning.

How could Israel be indiscriminately shelling entire residential blocks in the most densely populated ghetto in the world and killing LESS civilians with these strikes than Hamas did when they attacked sparsely populated suburban villages using small arms infantry? how is this possible? please explain this to me, I am very dumb.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:36

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

i'm just a widdle ignowamus...pwease pawdon teh wacism

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:37

Canned Sunshine: Nov 20, 2005; CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Centrist Dad posted:

Hamas played right into Israel's hands with their grandma-abducting agenda. Israel has been waiting for decades for an excuse to liquidate Gaza, and now they have one. The only thing standing in the way of Israeli bloodlust was always Hamas's moral high ground, and now that Hamas doesn't have it any more they're toast.

username and post combo check out

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:38

tristeham: Jul 31, 2022

1stGear posted:

Excuse me, I'm just a little ignorant Israeli, not wise in the ways of the international left, I have conceded many years ago that there are some forms of genocide in which the population constantly increases, there are some forms of genocide in which a region has some of the highest birthrates in the world, I mean it makes no lick of sense to me but I know this is because I am just too stupid and brainwashed to understand these things and so I concede that such genocides exists, with that said, I am a little bit confused as to how is it possible that the israeli indiscriminate death from above genocide machine didn't at any point during the 70 years of conflict murder as many civilians (or anyone at all period) like the brave hamas fighters who only target civilians out of despair did in a matter of hours on Saturday morning.

How could Israel be indiscriminately shelling entire residential blocks in the most densely populated ghetto in the world and killing LESS civilians with these strikes than Hamas did when they attacked sparsely populated suburban villages using small arms infantry? how is this possible? please explain this to me, I am very dumb.

no more this is too strong for my blood

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:38

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

I'm just a wee widdle fascist with lots of teensy weensy thoughts about how some people have too many babies

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:40

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Oglethorpe posted:

jesus christ my own loving family is afraid to talk about this war on IM

When they did talk about it it was very tangential "will be bad"

but now it's like it doesn't exist. i wouldn't say i'm close to my family, but something is terribly wrong. they're smart people. classically white people, and i'd go so far as to say brainwashed white america-first people, but not dumb. something's wrong.

Talk delivered by William Blum at the Left Forum in New York, June 2, 2018

We can all agree I think that US foreign policy must be changed and that to achieve that the mind � not to mention the heart and soul � of the American public must be changed. But what do you think is the main barrier to achieving such a change in the American mind?

Each of you I�m sure has met many people who support American foreign policy, with whom you�ve argued and argued. You point out one horror after another, from Vietnam to Iraq to Libya; from bombings and invasions to torture. And nothing helps. Nothing moves these people.

Now why is that? Do these people have no social conscience? Are they just stupid? I think a better answer is that they have certain preconceptions. Consciously or unconsciously, they have certain basic beliefs about the United States and its foreign policy, and if you don�t deal with these basic beliefs you may as well be talking to a stone wall.

The most basic of these basic beliefs, I think, is a deeply-held conviction that no matter what the US does abroad, no matter how bad it may look, no matter what horror may result, the government of the United States means well. American leaders may make mistakes, they may blunder, they may lie, they may even on many occasions cause more harm than good, but they do mean well. Their intentions are always honorable, even noble. Of that the great majority of Americans are certain.

Frances Fitzgerald, in her famous study of American school textbooks, summarized the message of these books: �The United States has been a kind of Salvation Army to the rest of the world: throughout history it had done little but dispense benefits to poor, ignorant, and diseased countries. The U.S. always acted in a disinterested fashion, always from the highest of motives; it gave, never took.�

And Americans genuinely wonder why the rest of the world can�t see how benevolent and self-sacrificing America has been. Even many people who take part in the anti-war movement have a hard time shaking off some of this mindset; they march to spur America � the America they love and worship and trust � they march to spur this noble America back onto its path of goodness.

Many of the citizens fall for US government propaganda justifying its military actions as often and as naively as Charlie Brown falling for Lucy�s football.

The American people are very much like the children of a Mafia boss who do not know what their father does for a living, and don�t want to know, but then they wonder why someone just threw a firebomb through the living room window.

This basic belief in America�s good intentions is often linked to �American exceptionalism�. Let�s look at just how exceptional America has been. Since the end of World War 2, the United States has:

1. Attempted to overthrow more than 50 foreign governments, most of which were democratically-elected.
2. Dropped bombs on the people of more than 30 countries.
3. Attempted to assassinate more than 50 foreign leaders.
4. Attempted to suppress a populist or nationalist movement in 20 countries.
5. Grossly interfered in democratic elections in at least 30 countries.
6. Led the world in torture; not only the torture performed directly by Americans upon foreigners, but providing torture equipment, torture manuals, lists of people to be tortured, and in-person guidance by American teachers, especially in Latin America.

This is indeed exceptional. No other country in all of history comes anywhere close to such a record. But it certainly makes it very difficult to believe that America means well.

So the next time you�re up against a stone wall � ask the person what the United States would have to do in its foreign policy to lose his or her support. What for this person would finally be TOO MUCH. Chances are the US has already done it.

Keep in mind that our precious homeland, above all, seeks to dominate the world. For economic reasons, nationalistic reasons, ideological, Christian, and for other reasons, world hegemony has long been America�s bottom line. And let�s not forget the powerful Executive Branch officials whose salaries, promotions, agency budgets and future well-paying private sector jobs depend upon perpetual war. These leaders are not especially concerned about the consequences for the world of their wars. They�re not necessarily bad people; but they�re amoral, like a sociopath is.

Take the Middle East and South Asia. The people in those areas have suffered horribly because of Islamic fundamentalism. What they desperately need are secular governments, which have respect for different religions. And such governments were actually instituted in the recent past. But what has been the fate of those governments?

Well, in the late 1970s through much of the 1980s, Afghanistan had a secular government that was relatively progressive, with full rights for women, which is hard to believe, isn�t it? But even a Pentagon report of the time testified to the actuality of women�s rights in Afghanistan. And what happened to that government? The United States overthrew it, allowing the Taliban to come to power. So keep that in mind the next time you hear an American official say that we have to remain in Afghanistan for the sake of the women.

After Afghanistan came Iraq, another secular society, under Saddam Hussein. And the United States overthrew that government as well, and now the country has its share of crazed and bloody jihadists and fundamentalists; and women who are not covered up properly are sometimes running a serious risk.

Next came Libya; again, a secular country, under Moammar Gaddafi, who, like Saddam Hussein, had a tyrant side to him but could in important ways be benevolent and do some marvelous things. Gaddafi, for example, founded the African Union and gave the Libyan people the highest standard of living in Africa. So, of course, the United States overthrew that government as well. In 2011, with the help of NATO, we bombed the people of Libya almost every day for more than six months.

Can anyone say that in all these interventions, or in any of them, the United States of America meant well?

When we attack Iran, will we mean well? Will we have the welfare of the Iranian people at heart? I suggest you keep such thoughts in mind the next time you�re having a discussion or argument with a flag-waving American.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:40

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

touching a milligram of powdered d&d with bare hands and going into immediate pulmonary arrest fentanyl style

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:40

Canned Sunshine: Nov 20, 2005; CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION

4d3d3d posted:

Agreed. Stop hitting yourselves, Palestinians, stop hitting yourselves

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:41

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

tristeham posted:

no more this is too strong for my blood

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:41

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

comedyblissoption posted:

Talk delivered by William Blum at the Left Forum in New York, June 2, 2018

We can all agree I think that US foreign policy must be changed and that to achieve that the mind � not to mention the heart and soul � of the American public must be changed. But what do you think is the main barrier to achieving such a change in the American mind?

Each of you I�m sure has met many people who support American foreign policy, with whom you�ve argued and argued. You point out one horror after another, from Vietnam to Iraq to Libya; from bombings and invasions to torture. And nothing helps. Nothing moves these people.

Now why is that? Do these people have no social conscience? Are they just stupid? I think a better answer is that they have certain preconceptions. Consciously or unconsciously, they have certain basic beliefs about the United States and its foreign policy, and if you don�t deal with these basic beliefs you may as well be talking to a stone wall.

The most basic of these basic beliefs, I think, is a deeply-held conviction that no matter what the US does abroad, no matter how bad it may look, no matter what horror may result, the government of the United States means well. American leaders may make mistakes, they may blunder, they may lie, they may even on many occasions cause more harm than good, but they do mean well. Their intentions are always honorable, even noble. Of that the great majority of Americans are certain.

Frances Fitzgerald, in her famous study of American school textbooks, summarized the message of these books: �The United States has been a kind of Salvation Army to the rest of the world: throughout history it had done little but dispense benefits to poor, ignorant, and diseased countries. The U.S. always acted in a disinterested fashion, always from the highest of motives; it gave, never took.�

And Americans genuinely wonder why the rest of the world can�t see how benevolent and self-sacrificing America has been. Even many people who take part in the anti-war movement have a hard time shaking off some of this mindset; they march to spur America � the America they love and worship and trust � they march to spur this noble America back onto its path of goodness.

Many of the citizens fall for US government propaganda justifying its military actions as often and as naively as Charlie Brown falling for Lucy�s football.

The American people are very much like the children of a Mafia boss who do not know what their father does for a living, and don�t want to know, but then they wonder why someone just threw a firebomb through the living room window.

This basic belief in America�s good intentions is often linked to �American exceptionalism�. Let�s look at just how exceptional America has been. Since the end of World War 2, the United States has:

1. Attempted to overthrow more than 50 foreign governments, most of which were democratically-elected.
2. Dropped bombs on the people of more than 30 countries.
3. Attempted to assassinate more than 50 foreign leaders.
4. Attempted to suppress a populist or nationalist movement in 20 countries.
5. Grossly interfered in democratic elections in at least 30 countries.
6. Led the world in torture; not only the torture performed directly by Americans upon foreigners, but providing torture equipment, torture manuals, lists of people to be tortured, and in-person guidance by American teachers, especially in Latin America.

This is indeed exceptional. No other country in all of history comes anywhere close to such a record. But it certainly makes it very difficult to believe that America means well.

So the next time you�re up against a stone wall � ask the person what the United States would have to do in its foreign policy to lose his or her support. What for this person would finally be TOO MUCH. Chances are the US has already done it.

Keep in mind that our precious homeland, above all, seeks to dominate the world. For economic reasons, nationalistic reasons, ideological, Christian, and for other reasons, world hegemony has long been America�s bottom line. And let�s not forget the powerful Executive Branch officials whose salaries, promotions, agency budgets and future well-paying private sector jobs depend upon perpetual war. These leaders are not especially concerned about the consequences for the world of their wars. They�re not necessarily bad people; but they�re amoral, like a sociopath is.

Take the Middle East and South Asia. The people in those areas have suffered horribly because of Islamic fundamentalism. What they desperately need are secular governments, which have respect for different religions. And such governments were actually instituted in the recent past. But what has been the fate of those governments?

Well, in the late 1970s through much of the 1980s, Afghanistan had a secular government that was relatively progressive, with full rights for women, which is hard to believe, isn�t it? But even a Pentagon report of the time testified to the actuality of women�s rights in Afghanistan. And what happened to that government? The United States overthrew it, allowing the Taliban to come to power. So keep that in mind the next time you hear an American official say that we have to remain in Afghanistan for the sake of the women.

After Afghanistan came Iraq, another secular society, under Saddam Hussein. And the United States overthrew that government as well, and now the country has its share of crazed and bloody jihadists and fundamentalists; and women who are not covered up properly are sometimes running a serious risk.

Next came Libya; again, a secular country, under Moammar Gaddafi, who, like Saddam Hussein, had a tyrant side to him but could in important ways be benevolent and do some marvelous things. Gaddafi, for example, founded the African Union and gave the Libyan people the highest standard of living in Africa. So, of course, the United States overthrew that government as well. In 2011, with the help of NATO, we bombed the people of Libya almost every day for more than six months.

Can anyone say that in all these interventions, or in any of them, the United States of America meant well?

When we attack Iran, will we mean well? Will we have the welfare of the Iranian people at heart? I suggest you keep such thoughts in mind the next time you�re having a discussion or argument with a flag-waving American.

brother im not reading that poo poo

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:41

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Hammerstein posted:

Since 1998, when Schr�der became chancellor, the SPD has been nothing but a class traitor and a lackey for Germany's industry. I'm not surprised.

1998 you say? Lol and furthermore lmao

The SPD supported WW1 and then murdered Liebknecht and Luxembourg. They are class traitors of the highest order and have been for over a century.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:41

tristeham: Jul 31, 2022

Ohtori Akio posted:

touching a milligram of powdered d&d with bare hands and going into immediate pulmonary arrest fentanyl style

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:42

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

I don't know, I became a Marxist-Leninist through reasoned debate. It was because an anarchist was trying to read Lenin as a misunderstood anarchist, so I read Lenin and realised they were a loving idiot and Lenin was right.

But you engaged earnestly with people that also didn�t treat you as an utterly wrong person, or in other words, this wasn�t a matter of moralism or political debate as such; imo, that was the natural course of your ideological process, which many former anarchists do share (at least in my experience)

Trying to elaborate on the nuance of the conflict to an evangelical family member (for example) is another dimension of social discourse. Really, the best skill here is to able to not clinch in and let they run out of steam while you listen, then ask questions in a friendly (and kind if possible) manner. That got me waaaaay more progress than lots of theory and rhetorical points

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:42

Phigs: Jan 23, 2019

Orange Devil posted:

1998 you say? Lol and furthermore lmao

The SPD supported WW1 and then murdered Liebknecht and Luxembourg. They are class traitors of the highest order and have been for over a century.

SPD are arguably why communism failed last century.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:43

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

This wasn't his plan, he wanted to slowly and quietly genocide Palestinians by 'controlling the height of the flames.' So no, it was an abject failure. And one that could hopefully see the destruction of Israel.

Yeah, that's right.

Democrats are still dumber though.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:44

Popy: Feb 19, 2008

u missed the guy who called norman finkelstein a holocaust denier

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:45

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

1stGear posted:

Excuse me, I'm just a little ignorant Israeli, not wise in the ways of the international left, I have conceded many years ago that there are some forms of genocide in which the population constantly increases, there are some forms of genocide in which a region has some of the highest birthrates in the world, I mean it makes no lick of sense to me but I know this is because I am just too stupid and brainwashed to understand these things and so I concede that such genocides exists, with that said, I am a little bit confused as to how is it possible that the israeli indiscriminate death from above genocide machine didn't at any point during the 70 years of conflict murder as many civilians (or anyone at all period) like the brave hamas fighters who only target civilians out of despair did in a matter of hours on Saturday morning.

How could Israel be indiscriminately shelling entire residential blocks in the most densely populated ghetto in the world and killing LESS civilians with these strikes than Hamas did when they attacked sparsely populated suburban villages using small arms infantry? how is this possible? please explain this to me, I am very dumb.

This is war crime levels of nuclear grade succ.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:46

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

please dont use jargon from the dusty corners of this forum just call the guy a dnd style retard and move on

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:48

Canned Sunshine: Nov 20, 2005; CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION

1stGear posted:

Excuse me, I'm just a little ignorant Israeli, not wise in the ways of the international left, I have conceded many years ago that there are some forms of genocide in which the population constantly increases, there are some forms of genocide in which a region has some of the highest birthrates in the world, I mean it makes no lick of sense to me but I know this is because I am just too stupid and brainwashed to understand these things and so I concede that such genocides exists, with that said, I am a little bit confused as to how is it possible that the israeli indiscriminate death from above genocide machine didn't at any point during the 70 years of conflict murder as many civilians (or anyone at all period) like the brave hamas fighters who only target civilians out of despair did in a matter of hours on Saturday morning.

How could Israel be indiscriminately shelling entire residential blocks in the most densely populated ghetto in the world and killing LESS civilians with these strikes than Hamas did when they attacked sparsely populated suburban villages using small arms infantry? how is this possible? please explain this to me, I am very dumb.

please tell me this was a sarcastic post?

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:49

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Popy posted:

u missed the guy who called norman finkelstein a holocaust denier

the immaculate finkelstein

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:51

Horizon Burning: Oct 23, 2019

i bet there's an incredible cross section between 'BUCHA WAS GENOCIDE' and 'GAZA IS NOT GENOCIDE'

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:51

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

mcmagic posted:

It's nuts that voicing this point of view is accepted in Israel but if any democrat said this in the US they would immediately be kicked out of the party.

This is because the US is the Great Satan, op.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:51

Rubellavator: Aug 16, 2007

Are they suggesting that Israel has killed less than 1200 Palestinians in the last 70 years? Am I reading that right? How do you even come up with that

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:53

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

Israel supported Hamas over Fatah

and then the CIA supported Fatah over Hamas

Ah, but once Hamas was winning elections and becoming the dominant force they supported Fatah over Hamas

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:54

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Rubellavator posted:

Are they suggesting that Israel has killed less than 1200 Palestinians in the last 70 years? Am I reading that right? How do you even come up with that

Israel only shoots terrorists in self defense, so it's not civilians and it's not murder - a real thing many actual people believe

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:54

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

Canned Sunshine posted:

please tell me this was a sarcastic post?

got bad news, bro...

might want to take a seat, its a doozy

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:54

smarxist: Jul 26, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

reading D&D and reddit at the same time is how belushi died, they called it a screedball

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:55

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

smarxist posted:

reading D&D and reddit at the same time is how belushi died, they called it a screedball

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:55

das hipster: Mar 7, 2005

smarxist posted:

reading D&D and reddit at the same time is how belushi died, they called it a screedball

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:58

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

Biden and Trump are both older than the state of Israel

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:58

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 26, 2024 01:19

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

genericnick posted:

Ah, but once Hamas was winning elections and becoming the dominant force they supported Fatah over Hamas

Yeah, it was thought as a way to undermine the authority of the PA/Fatah by allowing a "radical group" to take control.

That said, there has been a lot of talk of how this in the end (Hamas taking control, then going more recently on the offensive) was a purposeful strategy on the part of the Israelis, but usually you don't embarrass yourself completely like that. The IDF still hasn't secure the border with Gaza and there are potential hot spots elsewhere...it is a real gently caress up.

# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [P/I] American engineering is pierless

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