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Here's to 2024 being a complete write-off! 
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Oct 12, 2023 11:30
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Willo567 posted:drat, how long is it going to take for the AMPTP to get their heads out of their asses and actually offer a fair deal? Did the bill Newsom vetoed play a part in the talks breaking down again? You betcha.
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Oct 12, 2023 12:13
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Zesty posted:You betcha. I don’t know if I buy that. He hadn’t signed the bill yet when the writers got their deal and I gotta presume they were in contact with him since they’ve all donated to California politicians.
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Oct 12, 2023 12:48
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Double post, sorry. Here’s what I don’t get: so the studios are leaking to the trades again and it’s the same tactic of “we gave them a great counter but they are so unreasonable” they did with the WGA. But that tactic failed miserably. If it failed miserably against a guild like WGA that has way less popular public faces and way less leverage than SAG, why in the world do they think this tactic will work this time?
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Oct 12, 2023 13:04
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I was hoping the AMPTP would deal just to get this over with, but this was always the far more likely scenario. Now that the writers are back to work, the studios know that they have AT LEAST a month before any scripts will be ready to shoot. Not at all surprising that they're choosing to use that time to stall and maybe get some more concessions from the union.
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Oct 12, 2023 15:55
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My post friends were busy back at work doing schedules for the presumed end of the strike. LOL now they have to throw all that work out the window, but at least they are getting paid. It's amazing how much time and energy in this town is spent on busywork, writing up notes on a script that will never get made or charting out schedules for projects not yet greenlit. The studios had a handful of projects in the can already, but had to shut down post-production due to the writers strike. Once the strike was over, they could get showrunners & writer/directors back in the editing rooms so that bought them some time to complete stuff already filmed. Nothing was going to start production anyway, with the Thanksgiving and 2-week Christmas/New Years vacations coming up. So it's infuriating but not surprising the studios are wasting everyones time, trying to starve the actors out. Jokes on them, actors are used to being poor and barely scraping by!
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Oct 12, 2023 16:29
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VorpalBunny posted:Nothing was going to start production anyway, with the Thanksgiving and 2-week Christmas/New Years vacations coming up. So it's infuriating but not surprising the studios are wasting everyones time, trying to starve the actors out. Jokes on them, actors are used to being poor and barely scraping by! It's just the studios shooting themselves in the foot at this point. It wouldn't cost them much of anything to just accept SAG's demands but they have to do this out of 'principle' I guess.
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Oct 12, 2023 17:20
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FlamingLiberal posted:I wonder if this is part of it....the studios don't understand that they have hosed over the actors/writers for so long that they are used to it and they can't be broken because they have nothing to lose I mean I get why the studios feel the need to look out for the studios, but they have no leg to stand on in these talks. It’s not principle, it’s hubris.
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Oct 12, 2023 17:39
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FlamingLiberal posted:I wonder if this is part of it....the studios don't understand that they have hosed over the actors/writers for so long that they are used to it and they can't be broken because they have nothing to lose I think somebody posted a tweet earlier in the thread from an actor pointing out that (at that time at least) the strike had lasted less time that it took them to get their payment for the last work they had done on a production. It literally is a situation of "they've made us so poor and been so stingy about actually paying us for work that we've figured out how to survive for months at a time without money coming in."
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Oct 13, 2023 03:39
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The qualities that self select for C level executives are mutually exclusive to good faith bargaining.
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Oct 13, 2023 13:00
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fart blood posted:Here’s what I don’t get: so the studios are leaking to the trades again and it’s the same tactic of “we gave them a great counter but they are so unreasonable” they did with the WGA. But that tactic failed miserably. If it failed miserably against a guild like WGA that has way less popular public faces and way less leverage than SAG, why in the world do they think this tactic will work this time? The only thing I can think of is that they think SAG members can be starved out more easily. 86% of members don’t even earn the $27k needed to qualify for heath care. Also, CEOs are petulant children. I have to wonder if there’s going to be a directional shift in how the AMPTP operates. Carol Lombardini’s tactics are no longer working, and the companies themselves are no longer aligned in their business models.
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Oct 14, 2023 10:25
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Argyle posted:The only thing I can think of is that they think SAG members can be starved out more easily. 86% of members don’t even earn the $27k needed to qualify for heath care. It’s pure hubris on the studio’s part because they think the other guilds and unions will put pressure on SAG as the last holdouts but it’s not working at all. It’s a complete waste of everyone’s time and they learned nothing from the WGA strike.
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Oct 14, 2023 16:56
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Does Newsom think it's wise to piss off so many extremely wealthy, well-connected, politically-minded movie stars with this poo poo? Holy poo poo, what a bumblefuck.
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Oct 14, 2023 18:36
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I honestly wonder if losing the fight with the WGA is what’s making them dig in their heels now. Just pure corncobbing.
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Oct 14, 2023 19:53
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I wonder if the SAG conditions have more at stake than the WGA ones. I always assumed writing was a very small part of a production’s cost.
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Oct 14, 2023 19:59
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The studios want to be able to hire nobodies and deep fake stars faces on them forever and without limit. That's why they're fighting SAG. Because of digital necromancy.
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Oct 14, 2023 23:40
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Yes, writing is generally 2-3% of a feature film production budget. WGA minimum for a screenplay draft is approx. $160k for a >$5m budget movie. Let's say you (or more likely a combination for multiple writers) deliver five official drafts, which is around the norm for a feature film that actually makes it to production (most don't). That comes to around $800k total if paid at minimums, which out of a $25m production budget is 3.2%. Obviously big name screenwriters can negotiate for higher than minimum compensation, but the overall majority of screenwriters work at minimums. Television is more complicated because do you include showrunner compensation as writing costs? If you just consider staffing costs then the weekly minimum for a writer producer is about $8k per week, plus approx. $35k per script (for a one hour show). So a room of six writers working for fourteen weeks on an eight episode Netflix show would total around $1m-$1.2m depending on the exact level (script editor, producer, executive producer etc) of each writer on the show. Obviously all the above is upfront costs and doesn't take into account residuals. Above the line actor total cost will generally be something like 30-40%, though that obviously varies a lot project to project. It's low to mid budget productions that actually pay the most proportionally to their cast, because casting Penelope Cruz and Bradley Cooper in your talky drama about a broken marriage is how you sell the film to distributors and make your money back. A low budget contemporary drama with A-listers may be paying 60%+ of it's production budget to the two leads, while a big budget special effects film with a known but not megastar cast may pay a lot less percentage wise. This is all for above the line talent, you also have background artist costs which can add up quickly if you have a lot of crowd scenes - for example 200 extras will cost at least $50k a day for pay, catering and transportation alone, more if you need make up and costume too. So on certain productions (though probably not very many) you will be paying more total for background artists than for writing. Step one - replace all extras/backgorun artists with fully digital versions - already happening Step two - license the likeness of A-list stars and use them in perpetuity - just around the corner Step three - fully digital movie stars, created and wholly owned by the studio, meaning not even having to pay an actor or their estate - ten years away maybe?
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Oct 14, 2023 23:59
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tanglewood1420 posted:Step one - replace all extras/backgorun artists with fully digital versions - already happening all of this is so dumb and stupid and bad
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Oct 15, 2023 00:06
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tanglewood1420 posted:Step one - replace all extras/backgorun artists with fully digital versions - already happening Pretty sure Step 2 is already a thing and Step 3 is just around the corner, they're just waiting for the technology to improve enough to make it more viable. I remember reading something a couple years back about how some studio had purchased the rights to digitally recreate James Dean from his estate and use him in future movies.
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Oct 15, 2023 02:11
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Gordon Shumway posted:Pretty sure Step 2 is already a thing and Step 3 is just around the corner, they're just waiting for the technology to improve enough to make it more viable. I remember reading something a couple years back about how some studio had purchased the rights to digitally recreate James Dean from his estate and use him in future movies. I think it was Michael Douglas who recently did an interview where he said something like nowadays it isn't just thinking about what money/physical possessions you leave your family when you die, but also making it clear what you want done with your likeness rights since the studios are gonna try and get away with puppeteering your digital corpse and if it is going to happen the least you can do is make sure your family are getting paid for it. Which is... you know, loving terrifying. Hell, it's not even like studios haven't been trying to exploit dead celebrities for decades now. This aired 26 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkdirL0YxHE&t=48s This was over 30 years ago! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP30ph6jcHE
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Oct 15, 2023 02:41
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The last one looks like how in I want to say, 1996, when Star Trek Deep Space Nine was airing, they inserted the actors into the old original series episode 'The Trouble With Tribbles'.
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Oct 15, 2023 02:52
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Fred Astaire selling vacuum cleaners in a superbowl was the real start of it all, and what got thr legal rights conversation going.
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Oct 15, 2023 02:55
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FlamingLiberal posted:The last one looks like how in I want to say, 1996, when Star Trek Deep Space Nine was airing, they inserted the actors into the old original series episode 'The Trouble With Tribbles'. They used the Forest Gump technology I think? Which I remember feeling like an amazing thing at the time but looks kind of quaint by comparison to the insane things they can do now with digital likenesses, especially the lip synching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIWd3T1xjec&t=24s feedmyleg posted:Fred Astaire selling vacuum cleaners in a superbowl was the real start of it all, and what got thr legal rights conversation going. I'd never seen that before, but oof yeah that's pretty awful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6k5Abmjin4
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Oct 15, 2023 03:15
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I know this is unrelated, but I’m always amazed at how the Simpsons still amazes me all these years later. I’m of the opinion Season 8 was the last great season and yet when I see clips like this from season 9, 10, etc, I find it witty and sharp and poignant. It really is the greatest TV show of all time isn’t it?
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Oct 15, 2023 16:01
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fart blood posted:I know this is unrelated, but I’m always amazed at how the Simpsons still amazes me all these years later. I’m of the opinion Season 8 was the last great season and yet when I see clips like this from season 9, 10, etc, I find it witty and sharp and poignant. Answering the last part first: absolutely, it's the GOAT. And I'm basically quoting myself from multiple years past, but Ultimate Simpsons in a Big Ol' Box is the entombed and sealed away canon of the show. Main book 1-8 where you have rise to prominence and perfection, one supplement of 9-10 when the sheen starts to wear off, and then one supplement of 11-12 where it's clear it's on the verge of falling apart but you can still consider "The Simpsons". Anybody who grew up watching those seasons should own this book.
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Oct 15, 2023 16:12
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Yep, I had that back in the day and I basically agree with that -- my personal shark jumping moment was Maude dying, which is mid season 11. There are a few classic episodes after that though in the next few seasons but that is the main pivot point from good to bad imho. Also notable that the episode aired a couple months into 2000, which is another good cutoff point (the Simpsons is a 90's show first and foremost).
Feldegast42 fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Oct 15, 2023 |
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Oct 15, 2023 17:10
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fart blood posted:I know this is unrelated, but I’m always amazed at how the Simpsons still amazes me all these years later. I’m of the opinion Season 8 was the last great season and yet when I see clips like this from season 9, 10, etc, I find it witty and sharp and poignant. They'll even occasionally throw out bangers even today, like 'Carl Carlson Rides Again.'
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Oct 15, 2023 17:29
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Feldegast42 posted:Yep, I had that back in the day and I basically agree with that -- my personal shark jumping moment was Maude dying, which is mid season 11. There are a few classic episodes after that though in the next few seasons but that is the main pivot point from good to bad imho. Also notable that the episode aired a couple months into 2000, which is another good cutoff point (the Simpsons is a 90's show first and foremost). God, that was Season 11? I thought it was earlier. Also the other two universally recognized "jumping off" points for the Simpsons for most people were Homer's Enemy and The Principle and he Pauper, which were late Season 8 and early Season 9 respectively. With Homer's Enemy being, arguably, the last truly great Simpsons episode.
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Oct 15, 2023 19:34
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The one I remember watching and feeling like ‘this is just coming off as mean and not that funny’ is the one where Mr Burns keeps paying Homer to do embarrassing and/or dangerous things
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Oct 15, 2023 20:56
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I bailed around Yvan eht nioj, returning every once-in-a-while to be repeatedly disappointed. There's a gag in the BBQ episode where Homer sprays gobs and gobs of lighter fluid on the grill, building up the obvious. But then he lights it and it works just fine. That's the old Simpsons kind of clever. At some point, they dumbed the show down considerably. If they did that same gag today, it would be "lol fat man caught on fire then fell down" or some such poo poo.
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Oct 15, 2023 21:21
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"Impeach Churchill!" is a phenomenal line, delivered perfectly at exactly the right time to enhance the scene without making it all about Homer. That golden run of The Simpsons is about as strong an argument as you can make for the importance of writers!
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Oct 15, 2023 22:05
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LividLiquid posted:
They had done the other joke where it explodes in a giant fireball already back in the first Halloween episode.
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Oct 15, 2023 22:28
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Jerusalem posted:"Impeach Churchill!" is a phenomenal line, delivered perfectly at exactly the right time to enhance the scene without making it all about Homer. Yeah, I've been watching Toonrific Tariq's Simpsons videos and he made the very astute observation that when The Simpsons is on, if you don't like a gag they immediately throw five more at you and you don't even register you didn't like it.
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Oct 15, 2023 22:38
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MagusDraco posted:They had done the other joke where it explodes in a giant fireball already back in the first Halloween episode.
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Oct 15, 2023 23:18
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I hadn't watched the show in a long time when the crossover episode with Family Guy happened, and I was in awe that they made Peter Griffin the reasonable one in that episode. I haven't gone back since.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:09
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To bring things slightly more back on topic, Maude being killed off on The Simpsons was a direct result of a pay dispute wasn't it? To the point that there's a joke in one of the later seasons where Homer is sobbing about how he wishes he was rich and gets progressively more upset as he sees the names of the executive producers in the credits and is despairing at how rich they are.... then the voice actors names come up and he goes,"Oh those people are rich too.... not as rich as they should be...." before wailing in pure horror when Matt Groening's name comes up. It was funny, but also... yeah, The Simpons - particularly back then - was a cultural juggernaut and merchandising machine creating enormous wealth and the voice actors deserved more than they were getting given the show's success was built off of their performances in addition to the phenomenal writing. Killing off one of them who stuck to her guns was a bullshit move designed to cow the rest of them into submission. Boo 
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Oct 16, 2023 00:29
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Maggie Roswell lived out of state and asked Fox to pay for her flights to LA to record so they instead killed off Maude and stopped using her for 3 years before bringing her back anyway.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:46
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If you haven't seem the episode Lisa the Boy Scout, do so. The people who kept watching Fox after the late NFL game were treated to a brilliant piece of storytelling.
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Oct 16, 2023 03:01
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Maggie Roswell lived out of state and asked Fox to pay for her flights to LA to record so they instead killed off Maude and stopped using her for 3 years before bringing her back anyway. lol. They brought her back? I jumped ship around Maude dying, too.
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Oct 16, 2023 03:14
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tanglewood1420 posted:Step one - replace all extras/backgorun artists with fully digital versions - already happening Yeesh, so they really do just want to create Phillipsvision from that one episode of The Critic
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Oct 16, 2023 03:23
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