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cenotaph posted:I think threshold could be made into a serviceable episode if instead of the nonsensical warp 10 stuff they just made it the transwarp threshold (a phrase they actually say later in the series) and leaned into the body horror even more while ditching the references to evolution and just making it a mutation from whatever Tom got exposed to. Even just changing the dialog would have made it less ridiculous. I think it would of been far better if they hadn't of chickened out with the end and had kept Janeway as a salamander for the rest of the show. Star Trek has never really dealt with what is a starfleet crew to do when they are being lead by a salamander.
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Oct 17, 2023 11:43
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Taear posted:It's funny reading about the episode "my way" and how mad Ira was that the fans didn't like it Also, it's not romantic, it's a creepy nice-guy fantasy.
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Oct 17, 2023 12:18
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thotsky posted:Watching TNG from the start to introduce it to a friend. Man, season one is rough. There's some fun idiosyncracies, like Picard being an rear end in a top hat and Riker being cocky, but the line delivery... It especially starts rough. By the middle of the season it's getting into a pretty watchable stride, almost as watchable as any other season. But they really do not lead with the strong material. Angry Salami posted:It feels like they had an idea for an episode about Kirk being trapped on a deserted Enterprise, and they had an idea for an episode about an overpopulated planet, and they sort of awkwardly tied them together. That is almost exactly what happened, or at least, they didn't have the budget to build anything else so it was a convenient way to reuse sets. While also pretty much demolishing the episode's premise. A critically overpopulated planet has an entire empty Enterprise built on it just to trick a guy for half an episode?
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Oct 17, 2023 13:02
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"We would rather all die than let a single member of our species wear a condom. Every sperm is sacred Kirk."
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Oct 17, 2023 13:06
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"We tried to tell you how terrible the planet was!" No, you told us you didn't even know what planet you were from. "She needs to die to be an inspiration!" Oh, she was saved by McCoy and goes back to the planet to enact the plan anyway. "McCoy can run a thimble over your balls so you shoot blanks, but cum twice as hard and twice as often. It's also completely reversible." No, they'd rather all be crowded really badly. Also, no mention of food or water shortages. Just people stacked together. Like they have replicator technology and transporters and I dunno I guess if they're still bothering with the prime directive they technically have warp engines. I don't know where this crisis is coming from exactly. Also, season 3 is real loose on applying the prime directive. It's very much "as the situation calls for it".
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Oct 17, 2023 13:19
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The Gideons aren’t a prime directive situation, it’s a diplomatic mission at their request. For uh…I guess the sole reason was to get Kirk to give the girl the space clap, sparking a Black-Death-like catastrophe that will hopefully reshape the civilization they’re too stupid to fix on their own. They really don’t seem interested in the Federation for any other reason. I think there could be a point in there that we’re the Gideonites, building fake spaceships and fictive relationships with spacemen to fool ourselves into docility while we continue to obey the evolutionary dictates of our past and constantly jizz out more kids everywhere on a planet already kneeling under the weight of them. People got very Malthusian in 60s/70s sci fi (Stand on Zanzibar, World Inside, etc) as the green revolution kicked in and global population skyrocketed, and that seems to be the thrust of the episode. “Practice safe sex or we’ll all end up crammed against the windows!” It’s just hamstrung by the absurdity—they keep telling us there’s too many people but trust us, theyre just offscreen begging for death, because we can’t afford to show them. Hell, they can’t even afford to create the illusion of a large Enterprise crew by season 3—when Kirk is wondering where they’ve vanished to, it’s like, how can you tell.
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Oct 17, 2023 14:05
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Well that's kind of what I mean by the prime directive being a fuzzy concept. The Federation shouldn't have been in diplomatic talks if they hadn't discovered light speed technology right? If they had lightspeed technology, why didn't at least some of them... walk away. It's actually kind of a stupid Black Mirror version of that premise: "every child will suffer in honor of the paradise we used to have."
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Oct 17, 2023 14:09
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It's also worth noting that "Gideon" was originally written by one of the actors from "The Trouble With Tribbles" which apparently set him off on a whole thing about overpopulation.
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Oct 17, 2023 14:39
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They're a xenophobic species that goes out of its way to avoid contact with other worlds... but they have a replica of the Enterprise so perfect that it fools Kirk. Their planet is overpopulated to the point where people have no place to go, but they have the space to build this model of the Enterprise. Yeah... Mark of Gideon is a pretty cool concept but the execution doesn't make a lot of sense. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 14:45
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Doesn’t The Mark of Gideon have the poorly-researched concept that Kirk will fall in love with the leader’s daughter and spend the rest of his life with her? It’s like the Gideonites read about his illness and nothing else about Kirk…
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Oct 17, 2023 15:45
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AlternateNu posted:But it gave us Laughing VERY hard at the Tamarian, running along, babbling about tilling fields in the spring. That's loving brill.
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Oct 17, 2023 16:20
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MuddyFunster posted:Laughing VERY hard at the Tamarian, running along, babbling about tilling fields in the spring. That's loving brill. Kayshon's been one of the lowkey better additions to the show as it's gone on. First Tamarian in Starfleet, so they've got the universal translators working so he talks in normal sentences most of the time, but will often slip into metaphor speak and half the fun is trying to figure out the context clues. For example, a character who's been bucking for years to eject the warp core as a tactical maneuver finally gets to do it one episode, so the whole crew cheers him on as he runs down to engineering with the ejection key, and Kayshon's like "Arnot, on the night of his joining!  ". It's great.
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Oct 17, 2023 17:13
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"Whoops! Oh, Gramble, his throat slit by his mistress." There's also a subtle sweet running bit in the background between Kayshon and Ransom where we see Ransom start to understand Kayshon's Tamarian phrases without needing to translate and eventually uses some himself.
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Oct 17, 2023 17:19
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MikeJF posted:"Whoops! Oh, Gramble, his throat slit by his mistress." "Ensign Boimler! Shaka, when the walls fell!"
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Oct 17, 2023 17:28
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I refuse to believe Threshold was written by a human person. They invent a technology that could get the whole ship back to Earth instantly. There is a side effect that humans exposed to this technology turn into lizards. Luckily we have an artificial crew member who will not be affected and additionally knows how to cure turn-into-lizard-itis. It's a perfect cure with no after-effects. The logical conclusion: never use this technology again.
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Oct 17, 2023 21:25
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Pwnstar posted:I refuse to believe Threshold was written by a human person. They invent a technology that could get the whole ship back to Earth instantly. There is a side effect that humans exposed to this technology turn into lizards. Luckily we have an artificial crew member who will not be affected and additionally knows how to cure turn-into-lizard-itis. It's a perfect cure with no after-effects. The logical conclusion: never use this technology again. Counterpoint: shut up!
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Oct 17, 2023 21:35
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What, uh, happens to the not humans too? Does Tuvok turn into a crab or something?
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Oct 17, 2023 21:36
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Eventually we all become crabs
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Oct 17, 2023 21:48
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Clearly we become salamanders
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Oct 17, 2023 22:09
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Pwnstar posted:I refuse to believe Threshold was written by a human person. They invent a technology that could get the whole ship back to Earth instantly. There is a side effect that humans exposed to this technology turn into lizards. Luckily we have an artificial crew member who will not be affected and additionally knows how to cure turn-into-lizard-itis. It's a perfect cure with no after-effects. The logical conclusion: never use this technology again. They do never figure out how to steer it.
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Oct 17, 2023 22:26
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At warp 10, the impossible in evolution happens: Harry Kim becomes a Lieutenant JG.
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Oct 17, 2023 22:27
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This week in Bever-ER, Troi Investigates! Eye of the Beholder (alt title: Ghost in the Nacelle), which I didn't mind at all. Just a solid little mystery with a technobabbly excuse for the supernatural weirdness going on and yet more Troi/Worf action, which is a weird thing to be pushing so often this late in the show. The real giveaway that it was all an illusion is that they both had it off and she didn't spend the rest of the episode walking bow-legged. It wasn't exactly anything I'd call super special, but a solid 7/10 type thing, dependable, engaging enough, out of your head almost immediately once it's over. Genesis: Oh, this is precious. This is a pearl. This is wonderful. I had no idea. Oh, lord. So, Troi's too cold, Riker's struggling to concentrate, Barclay's talking a mile a minute and Worf's ripping up the bed sheets and spitting acid in Beverly's face. Nothing too out of the ordinary, honestly. Picard and Data gently caress off in a shuttle and when they come back, it turns out this is basically that one Darkplace episode, The Apes of Wrath. And I should have twigged, there was one very hilarious bit of acting from Patti Yasutake shortly before it all goes bananas (PUN FULLY INTENDED, gently caress YOU), where Nurse Ogawa gets up from a table, resting on her knuckles, then wobbles out of the scene in an ape-like fashion. It was amazing. We get EVEN MORE Worf/Troi in the most astonishingly hosed up way. In the end, it turns out it was all because of Beverly and her MONKEY BASTARD HANDS. Absolutely delirious. I was laughing so much. Gates McFadden's only directing credit? I can't imagine why!
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Oct 18, 2023 00:18
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Genesis sure is an experience, isn't it  In its (slight) defense, though, I think it actually does a decent job with the pulpy horror aspect. It's a type of horror TNG doesn't do a whole lot of - the only other example I can think of is Conspiracy, way back in Season 1.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:27
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They went for a tone and nailed it, it is lovely b-movie junk. For all the absurdity, it's quite creepy at times! The discovery of Troi in the dripping, humid set is great.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:35
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Pwnstar posted:I refuse to believe Threshold was written by a human person. They invent a technology that could get the whole ship back to Earth instantly. There is a side effect that humans exposed to this technology turn into lizards. Luckily we have an artificial crew member who will not be affected and additionally knows how to cure turn-into-lizard-itis. It's a perfect cure with no after-effects. The logical conclusion: never use this technology again. If you start thinking about the ramifications of The Doctor's existence it leads in a very funny direction. So sickbay can both house an entire humanoid brain and project a body for it (the episode with the Vidian girlfriend) and the doctor is known to have a backup (living witness). Yet they make the guy who will probably be flying in every combat mission be the nurse. Also, they let the doctor leave the ship and multiple times get kidnapped without loading his backup. They could send him on every away mission and reintegrate his memories every time. Just install another copy of the doctor in the holodeck if you're overwhelmed with casualties. Dude could be living like 3 lives.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:36
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Paris is the only Starfleet/Maquis survivor with field medic training, is why. It’s established in Caretaker, he’s the first person to get pressed in next to the Doctor and gets rotated out when Kes comes on board. Like you could train someone else, but there is a reason beyond “grab the guy at conn, he isn’t busy.”
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Oct 18, 2023 00:42
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MuddyFunster posted:Gates McFadden's only directing credit? I can't imagine why! Is this in reference to the actual directing of the episode, or the writing? Because you know that, at least on Trek, TV directors don't really have input on scripts, right?
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Oct 18, 2023 00:55
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That wasn't meant to be entirely sarcastic, she actually does a really well with the material. It starts out entertaining, it stays entertaining, the pace never lets up. It's consistent. I could only imagine she was egging Yasutake on for that ape-walk bit. Could say the same of Frakes and Sub Rosa, thinking about it. MuddyFunster fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 01:33
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Admiralty Flag posted:At warp 10, the impossible in evolution happens: Harry Kim becomes a Lieutenant JG. Too high a price to pay.
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Oct 18, 2023 01:36
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Harry Kim is the patron saint of lower deckers, an ensign is he, an ensign shall he remain forevermore, praise be unto Janeway. 
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Oct 18, 2023 07:23
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Atlas Hugged posted:I can't remember if it was this thread or the modern thread discussing this, but planetary shields are definitely a thing in the TOS era. They're not indestructible, but often what it would take to get through them would result in the people behind them being destroyed. Hmm, which eps? I remember planetside shields for installations but not planet-wide shields.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:25
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Angry Salami posted:Also, it's not romantic, it's a creepy nice-guy fantasy. You know what, I don't agree Vic really pushes "you'll never find out if you don't DO anything [pally]"
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Oct 18, 2023 13:23
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MikeJF posted:Hmm, which eps? I remember planetside shields for installations but not planet-wide shields. Only one I can think of is Balance of Terror, and those were asteroids not planets.
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Oct 18, 2023 13:24
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Just had a sensible chuckle about the Voyager scene when they are stranded on some planet, Tuvok is making weapons to defend themselves. Chakotay sees he's making a bunch of spears and a bow w/ arrows and gets mad "wow you are making a really insensitive asumption about me here bro". Tuvok is like "No this is for me, I was an archery teacher for several years"
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Oct 18, 2023 13:57
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Pwnstar posted:Just had a sensible chuckle about the Voyager scene when they are stranded on some planet, Tuvok is making weapons to defend themselves. Chakotay sees he's making a bunch of spears and a bow w/ arrows and gets mad "wow you are making a really insensitive asumption about me here bro". Tuvok is like "No this is for me, I was an archery teacher for several years" I prefer to think Tuvok's trolling him. "No commander, this is a traditional Vulcan meditation pipe. I will now perform the Kon'tarr chant, as is tradition. *pats mouth while going woo-woo-woo*"
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Oct 18, 2023 16:09
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Arivia posted:Paris is the only Starfleet/Maquis survivor with field medic training, is why. It’s established in Caretaker, he’s the first person to get pressed in next to the Doctor and gets rotated out when Kes comes on board. In the Message in a Bottle episode they attempt to make a replacement Doctor but that goes nowhere.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:15
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s crazy that there is never any attempt to supplement their medical staff of The Doctor, Kes (until she leaves) and Paris People make terrible doctors. They aren't that good at their job, they can barely manage being on time or spending time in the room with a patient, make nurse do all work, unpleasant to talk to, will ignore your body in favour of whatever easy ideas they had first. The surprising thing is that they didn't try and find some extra computer to install to have multiple EMH. Especially since a ship that size should have multiple medical bays, although maybe not with their reduced ragtag staff.
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Oct 18, 2023 17:01
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My fanwank is that there's specialised hardware running the EMH that they can't recreate with their resources at hand. (The mobile emitter can do it trivially because 29th century)
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Oct 18, 2023 17:20
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In retrospect, they should have figured out that Neelix will rapidly run out of knowledge as they get further from his home area, making the core part of the character's origin useless. He should have been the doctor. Basically Phlox.
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Oct 18, 2023 17:34
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MikeJF posted:My fanwank is that there's specialised hardware running the EMH that they can't recreate with their resources at hand. (The mobile emitter can do it trivially because 29th century) Honestly I buy it since he died once from scratch disk errors. And any tech they might've bought for a Doc2or would've been infected with bioneural viruses or kazon bombs or some poo poo. My new proposal: niceBorg Doctor once Seven shows up and is installing her niceBorg gym.
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Oct 18, 2023 17:58
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