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It’s decent for what it does but there is no variety whatsoever
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Oct 28, 2023 22:57
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Hel posted:The only Remedy games with good combat are the first two Max Payne games. Control was fantastic, what are you on about.
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Oct 28, 2023 22:59
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Control was fantastic, what are you on about. Flying enemies would see a levitating chair suddenly rocket at them and move out of the way, stumping hundreds of thousands of players and leading them to assume they're just invincible to that telekinesis entirely.
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Oct 28, 2023 23:18
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RareAcumen posted:Flying enemies would see a levitating chair suddenly rocket at them and move out of the way, stumping hundreds of thousands of players and leading them to assume they're just invincible to that telekinesis entirely. Quite the opposite, TK spam was the best way to deal with them, so instead of actually encouraging any variation, you just spammed your first(?) power at everything. Likewise, most variations of the service weapon were useless at a range of more than zero. Control had functional at best combat, but it was far from good.
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Oct 28, 2023 23:25
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TK spamming was awesome and fun as hell, what are you talking about. Flying around throwing fire extinguishers and printers into weird zombies owned.
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Oct 28, 2023 23:32
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Hel posted:Quite the opposite, TK spam was the best way to deal with them, so instead of actually encouraging any variation, you just spammed your first(?) power at everything. Likewise, most variations of the service weapon were useless at a range of more than zero. I believe that RareAcumen's point is that the visual feedback lead players to make incorrect assumptions, causing them to ignore their most powerful weapon. And yeah, the Service Weapon is a bit underpowered, because they really want you to lean on TK for combat. And TK is fun! But it's also not a ton of variety in itself.
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Oct 28, 2023 23:33
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The best way to play Control is with a good balance of the powers and the gun. Sitting there waiting for Throw to recharge is generally suboptimal and also makes you look lame, you can accomplish a lot more and look good doing it weaving in shots while floating all over the battlefield.
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Oct 28, 2023 23:36
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muscles like this! posted:It is definitely way more Control than Alan Wake 1. Can Alan throw forklifts at people?
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Oct 28, 2023 23:39
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Biplane posted:TK spamming was awesome and fun as hell, what are you talking about. Flying around throwing fire extinguishers and printers into weird zombies owned. This is how I always feel when folks talk about the combat being bad, it's like we played different games.
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Oct 29, 2023 00:13
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The Lone Badger posted:Can Alan throw forklifts at people? This is going into my heuristic for determining if games are good.
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Oct 29, 2023 00:26
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The Lone Badger posted:Can Alan throw forklifts at people? He can write about a flying forklift?
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Oct 29, 2023 00:31
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I believe that RareAcumen's point is that the visual feedback lead players to make incorrect assumptions, causing them to ignore their most powerful weapon. Can confirm, this happened to me. I assumed I was looking at a 'match the enemy to the best tool' kind of encounter design, which honestly isn't wrong... and then assumed that because the flying enemies so visibly dodged my thrown garbage that the flying enemies were the ones strong against telekinesis, not weak. And okay, it's a little weird to follow up getting a cool new tool with introducing you to the enemy that's immune to that tool, but maybe that's just how Remedy does their game design. It led to me leaning hard on the Service Weapon's charge shot function specifically, which I think might also be the worst one. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 00:58 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 00:55
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Hel posted:Quite the opposite, TK spam was the best way to deal with them, so instead of actually encouraging any variation, you just spammed your first(?) power at everything. Likewise, most variations of the service weapon were useless at a range of more than zero. Yeah two primary weapon telekinesis games are a dime a dozen, you could easily find 50 of those in the bargin gamecube bin of a K-Mart back in the day. exquisite tea posted:The best way to play Control is with a good balance of the powers and the gun. Sitting there waiting for Throw to recharge is generally suboptimal and also makes you look lame, you can accomplish a lot more and look good doing it weaving in shots while floating all over the battlefield. Before the cheat codes and sliders were added I was throwing things. When I had no energy, I would shoot them. Or if they only had a little bit of life because I'm not wasting energy on throwing something for 5% health. If I'm out of both, I'm just getting behind a wall for 3 seconds till I can go back on the offensive. TooMuchAbstraction posted:I believe that RareAcumen's point is that the visual feedback lead players to make incorrect assumptions, causing them to ignore their most powerful weapon. And yeah, the Service Weapon is a bit underpowered, because they really want you to lean on TK for combat. And TK is fun! But it's also not a ton of variety in itself. I grieve for the people who tried the gun first and saw them dodge and then tried telekinesis and saw them dodge that too. They must've assumed they were invincible and softlocked themselves by not doing something else beforehand. Who's ever heard of an enemy that could dodge attacks before? They're supposed to block them.
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Oct 29, 2023 01:16
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah two primary weapon telekinesis games are a dime a dozen, you could easily find 50 of those in the bargin gamecube bin of a K-Mart back in the day. I have nonidea whatsoever what in this post is sarcasm or not.
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Oct 29, 2023 01:18
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it's all sarcastic
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Oct 29, 2023 01:18
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RareAcumen posted:I grieve for the people who tried the gun first and saw them dodge and then tried telekinesis and saw them dodge that too. They must've assumed they were invincible and softlocked themselves by not doing something else beforehand. Who's ever heard of an enemy that could dodge attacks before? They're supposed to block them. My memory of all this is a little spotty, but as I recall the thing that hosed me about the first major flying enemy was that it was dodging the telekinesis that were its weakness (mostly because I wasn't using it for misdirection), but wasn't doging the bullets that weren't. At least, nowhere near as reliably. So it read more to me as a bullet sponge enemy that I was supposed to gun down rather than a tutorial about killing birds with stones. I'm realizing this is probably kind of a factor of how much I trust and respect the game I'm playing. I didn't really have the experience with Remedy to know that they maybe want me to be a clever bitch with these tools, nor the trust in Remedy that they'll let me be a clever bitch with these tools, so I instead approach the problem as brick-simple as it can get: 'if it always dodges me throwing a table, I'm probably not supposed to throw a table'. It's a situation that's also cropping up with Baldur's Gate 3, and previously with Breath of the Wild (although to a much lesser degree): if I don't trust that the game wants me to get weird, I'm just not going to get weird, because most games don't let me. After all, if you gave the task of making Control to any other developer, we'd probably instead be looking at a cover shooter where 'telekinesis' happens to be one of the guns. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 01:49 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 01:46
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muscles like this! posted:My brother was watching me play early on and when you first return to Cauldron Lake I said to him how I wouldn't be surprised if the Federal Bureau of Control showed up soon. Lo and behold one of the people you run into there is a guy from the FBC. in the AWE DLC for Control Alan essentially says he created the department of Control because he needs them for something in Alan Wake 2
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Oct 29, 2023 01:50
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:I have nonidea whatsoever what in this post is sarcasm or not. It's an insanity sandwich. The top and bottom is the ravings of an asylum inmate, while the middle is sane in comparison. It's all in how the game allows you to interact with it. Control is a very simple game, at the end of the day. All obstacles are solved in like, one of five ways. Do you:
There's not really much that's more complicated to it than that. You're not even managing additional enemies waiting for a special one to show up for a power boost that'll get you through one of their health bars. There's no sequence where you have to properly rewire a elevator in accordance with the 2020 Uniform Code of New York State and the 2020 Energy Conservation Construction Code of New York State or anything, it's a video game. You either touch some wires together like you're hotwiring a car in a movie from 2009 or you put a fuse in it. RareAcumen has a new favorite as of 01:59 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 01:56
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Crowetron posted:The quality parts are mostly the writing and atmosphere, yeah. How do you feel about stuff like Stephen King novels and Twin Peaks? Because it's really trying to tap into stuff like that and if that's not your thing, there's not too much there for you. 
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Oct 29, 2023 04:58
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The story of Alan Wake was def why I did an LP of it back in the day. I wanted more folks to witness its wild methods of foreshadowing and breaking storytelling conventions, without having to play it for themselves. It worked, goons loved it for that reason actually. Not to say the gameplay is in any way bad because it gives you a perfect amount of time to contemplate how the story is unfolding, inbetween moments of intense action. I personally like it a lot. It's just that those moments were not as fun as the part where the story is playing out in front of you. edit: vvv Yeah, that's pretty much accurate. Alan Wake 2 especially is giving me Silent Hill vibes with its use of layered worlds and non-Euclidean space. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 05:48 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 05:26
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I get the vibe they kinda draw from old school Silent Hill and other horror games; not the best games but using the medium for storytelling in ways that you couldn't in other mediums.
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Oct 29, 2023 05:43
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So how do you shoot the bad guys in Alan Wake? Do you have to focus your beam? Or does that just stun then? I shoot them so many times but they don't fuckin die
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Oct 29, 2023 05:57
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Boost the flashlight on them til the eclipse you see disappears. The enemy will flash and recoil when their shield is down. Then aim for the head. Don't worry, you're probably doing it right as you will be able to see your shots ricocheting visually if you aren't there yet.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:04
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CJacobs posted:Boost the flashlight on them til the eclipse you see disappears. The enemy will flash and recoil when their shield is down. Then aim for the head. Don't worry, you're probably doing it right as you will be able to see your shots ricocheting visually if you aren't there yet. Only in the first one, you don’t need to break the darkness in 2.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:06
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credburn posted:So how do you shoot the bad guys in Alan Wake? Do you have to focus your beam? Or does that just stun then? I shoot them so many times but they don't fuckin die you can quickfire the flashlight to stun an enemy if you’re getting surrounded but you should be focusing the beam on them until it burns away their protection (which will give you a little visual effect) and then fire away Edit: RandolphCarter posted:Only in the first one, you don’t need to break the darkness in 2. wtf why not I fuckin loved that poo poo. I am the freak who loves the combat in Alan Wake. it’s me codenameFANGIO has a new favorite as of 06:13 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 06:07
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codenameFANGIO posted:it burns away their protection (which will give you a little visual effect) okay what protection loving hell I've been holding back the flashlight to spare flashlight ammo this whole time
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Oct 29, 2023 06:13
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credburn posted:okay what apparently it’s different in 2 which annoys me ngl
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Oct 29, 2023 06:13
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RandolphCarter posted:Only in the first one, you don’t need to break the darkness in 2. If this is true, I didn't manage it with ~8 revolver shots when I forgot to do it once. It took 3 after breaking the shield. The game absolutely still wants you to do it regardless, it reveals extra weak points on some enemies!
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Oct 29, 2023 06:16
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credburn posted:okay what That's what the flashlight ammo is for! Also don't stress super hard about supplies because the game uses RE4 logic and will dynamically keep you topped up. And there's tons of level transitions that nuke your inventory anyway. Also make sure you're playing on the lowest difficulty because the higher ones add very little to the experience. Cleretic posted:It led to me leaning hard on the Service Weapon's charge shot function specifically, which I think might also be the worst one. I think the consensus is that the machine gun is the dud. Charge lets you pop all sorts of stuff good if you can aim well. Also +1 to being stumped by using TK on fliers. With the help of fellow goons in the other thread we figured out how readily they dodge is a factor of if they can see it coming, which also makes distance between Jesse and the enemy a consideration. People who say "just use TK twice lol" apparently never ran afoul of the actual problem. John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 06:21 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 06:17
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my favorite little thing in Alan Wake is how satisfying that revolver feels to fire. that gunshot sounds so good, it has nice weight, slamming the reload button repeatedly to reload faster feels cool as hell. best revolver in any game imo
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Oct 29, 2023 06:18
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I honestly don't understand how combat works in Alan Wake. My goal is to Reach Lover's Peak. I've got like 12 bullets (10 are needed to kill anything) and there are maybe a dozen or so angry rednecks between me and the goal? I feel like such an idiot, I really just don't understand. e: this is just an example. Okay, I guess I exaggerated the numbers a bit, but it still takes a full six shots to kill a single redneck and there are waaaaay more of them on the path to my destination than there are bullets. I tried just dodging and running past them but they all followed me to the end. https://i.imgur.com/vBNJ9OP.mp4 credburn has a new favorite as of 06:28 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 06:21
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CJacobs posted:If this is true, I didn't manage it with ~8 revolver shots when I forgot to do it once. It took 3 after breaking the shield. The game absolutely still wants you to do it regardless, it reveals extra weak points on some enemies! Batteries are pretty rare for the first chunk of the game and bullets aren’t. Combat is more resident evil this time around so I just run past a lot of stuff, saves you a lot of items. my shoebox is almost full lol.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:22
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An important part of game design is establishing flow and expectations early on, and unfortunately there's a reason a lot of games tutorialise every goddamn little thing, because you'd be amazed at what players miss, and also what bad habits players get into from other games' poor design or different expectations.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:25
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credburn posted:I honestly don't understand how combat works in Alan Wake. My goal is to Reach Lover's Peak. I've got like 12 bullets (10 are needed to kill anything) and there are maybe a dozen or so angry rednecks between me and the goal? I feel like such an idiot, I really just don't understand. Even after burning the darkness out they are pretty spongey in the first game. It just takes a lot of shots, it's what folks itt were talking about when they mentioned the gameplay tended not to be very fun. There's no shame in running for the light instead of fighting. edit: And playing on Easy, my goodness if there was ever a game for it.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:27
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John Murdoch posted:Also +1 to being stumped by using TK on fliers. With the help of fellow goons in the other thread we figured out how readily they dodge is a factor of if they can see it coming, which also makes distance between Jesse and the enemy a consideration. The thing I noticed - which leads into the best strategy IMHO - is that the TK object is launched from wherever it happens to be when you release the button. So, grab an object behind the enemy, release the button before it gets to Jesse, and it'll hit pretty much every time. Sometimes you can even smack them with it twice, coming and going! 
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Oct 29, 2023 06:27
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Also probably doesn't help that like, in an old FPS, a flying enemy that dodges slow powerful projectiles would communicate 'You have to aim carefully to hit this enemy and lead them' while nowadays people probably assume they're hard-coded to automatically dodge them and make you have to use your hitscan weapons to plink away at them, or find some seeking weapon hard coded to one hit kill them.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:34
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CJacobs posted:edit: And playing on Easy, my goodness if there was ever a game for it. It really needs to be repeated and highlighted that the (original) PC version renamed the difficulties from Normal/Hard/Nightmare to Easy/Normal/Nightmare because I guess they thought mouselook was just that powerful. But the main thing higher difficulties do is raise enemy health and damage, making basic combat spongier and turning some setpieces into deathtraps. It is so, so obvious that the game is meant to be played on the lowest difficulty first time through.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:42
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Ghost Leviathan posted:An important part of game design is establishing flow and expectations early on, and unfortunately there's a reason a lot of games tutorialise every goddamn little thing, because you'd be amazed at what players miss, and also what bad habits players get into from other games' poor design or different expectations. Can be achieved midstream tho. The Surge 2 provided a masterclass in the Gaia Statues that required you to learn how to aggressively parry, but which had movesets that really telegraphed their attacks. Then when you did learn it, you immediately started schooling every enemy you previously had issues with.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:51
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Breetai posted:Can be achieved midstream tho. Kirby and the Forgotten Land is probably one of the last games anyone expects to have not only dodging but Witch Time counters, but Sillydillo is definitely the place where I'm not the only one who suddenly learned it.
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Oct 29, 2023 07:08
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It was rad as hell in Devil May Cry the first time I counter-clashed with an enemy, and then realized I could do that to counter any attack from any enemy in the whole game.
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Oct 29, 2023 07:14
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