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Professor Wayne
Aug 27, 2008

So, Harvey, what became of the giant penny?

They actually let him keep it.
Dead Space remake rules, but I hate how enemies won't take damage until they are done with certain intro animations

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Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010

The Moon Monster posted:

Oh hey, another "bad approaches to lore" game: Lords of the Fallen. It does the typical Dark Souls item description thing... except the item descriptions are all locked behind one or both of the two spellcasting stats. So if you're playing a non-caster build a typical item description will look like:

Pureblade Shield

A shield used by Pureblade soldiers

Increase radiance to gain further insight [this is where all the interesting stuff actually is]

This poo poo is such a bad idea! It's probably only a small fraction of your playerbase that is actually going to read the item descriptions for lore, so why gate that even harder? My second run actually was a radiance character, but by then the game had trained me not to bother looking at item descriptions, and I still couldn't read items that required inferno or inferno+radiance anyway.

lol, how do you miss the point of lore this badly? Like the only real reward for finding the umpteen pieces of equipment/spells you’re not gonna use for your current build in a given Soulsborne run are the cool bits of lore you get as a consolation prize. It’d be like if all the summons you got in Elden Ring just said “summons a lil guy you’ll never use. Level to +5 for lore.”

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

The Moon Monster posted:

Some non-lore related stuff. The game has a weird checkpoint system. You've got "vestiges" which are your normal bonfires, but you've also got flowerbeds where you can plant a checkpoint. This doesn't sound so bad, but only one flower can be blooming at once so most checkpoints disappear once you've moved on a bit. And the seeds are rare enough that you'll probably start running out on your first playthrough, at least. And you can only hold 5 at once so any you pick up while your inventory is full are just consigned to oblivion. Within like a day of launch they cut the price of the seeds at the vendor by over half and changed his inventory from 5 to 99. But why put a bandaid on something you could just fix? The mechanic sucks full stop. Just give the player unlimited seeds and make them not despawn when you plant another one.

This kind of thing keeps happening in a variety of games and it baffles me every time. It was the same with e.g. fast travel in Dragon's Dogma or Horizon Zero Dawn, or respecs in a whole host of RPGs. They go to the effort of implementing a useful and perfectly appropriate quality of life feature, and then for whatever dumbass reason put some limiting mechanic on top of that for no good reason. You're not making the the game more interesting by putting a limit on QoL features, you're just lowering your players' quality of life.


VVVV was that in from the beginning? I figured it was a similar deal to Dragon's Dogma where they patched in an unlimited version after receiving complaints. If they had it from the start, good on them I suppose VVVV

Perestroika has a new favorite as of 17:29 on Oct 29, 2023

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



At least in HZD you can get an item that gives you unlimited fast travel. I'd like the convenience there from the start, but I can see some reasoning in giving you some resources to hunt down to get that as a reward after a while of dealing with the limited system.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


Yeah you could always get the free fast travel item. It's kind of pointless though because every new merchant you meet will give you some free items that usually contain a fast travel pack, and you can craft so many on your own so cheaply that you'd really have to be fast traveling a lot to make full use of it.

very risky blowjob
Sep 27, 2015

OutOfPrint posted:

The best kind of lore, though, enhances the plot without being necessary to figure out what's going on, and that's true for any form of media, not just games. Sure, it's cool to know that the dragon Snaggus has a weak point from where Saint Jeronimathematicus knicked it with the halberd Zenowaith, but showing me a glowing red gash in its side is good enough in the moment.

It's Creative Writing 101: show, don't tell.

:hai:

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



I guess it's the Epic environment rather than the game itself, but man, they chose the most obtrusively happy sound for achievement popups. Playing Alan Wake 2, it's both aggravating and funny how much they spoil the mood when they pop up at tense moments.

Saga: "Someone's been watching us."
Casey: "Playing a sick game with us."
Game: 🎶DOODLEY DEEP!🎶 🏆10 XP

Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

~🚚special delivery~📦

Last Celebration posted:

lol, how do you miss the point of lore this badly? Like the only real reward for finding the umpteen pieces of equipment/spells you’re not gonna use for your current build in a given Soulsborne run are the cool bits of lore you get as a consolation prize. It’d be like if all the summons you got in Elden Ring just said “summons a lil guy you’ll never use. Level to +5 for lore.”

They actually did this in some of the King’s Field games, though usually you’d have to get more intelligence to even find out what the hell certain things did at all, and it wasn’t really a build focused game so increasing intelligence throughout the game was pretty much guaranteed.

Neat idea but the execution does sound dumb here.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


Captain Hygiene posted:

I guess it's the Epic environment rather than the game itself, but man, they chose the most obtrusively happy sound for achievement popups. Playing Alan Wake 2, it's both aggravating and funny how much they spoil the mood when they pop up at tense moments.

Saga: "Someone's been watching us."
Casey: "Playing a sick game with us."
Game: 🎶DOODLEY DEEP!🎶 🏆10 XP

The sudden interruption of a dramatic moment in the story with some cheeky intrusive achievement popup like SORRY YOUR MOM BLEW UP is honestly one of my favorite things about modern gaming.

Triarii
Jun 14, 2003

Perestroika posted:

This kind of thing keeps happening in a variety of games and it baffles me every time. It was the same with e.g. fast travel in Dragon's Dogma or Horizon Zero Dawn, or respecs in a whole host of RPGs. They go to the effort of implementing a useful and perfectly appropriate quality of life feature, and then for whatever dumbass reason put some limiting mechanic on top of that for no good reason. You're not making the the game more interesting by putting a limit on QoL features, you're just lowering your players' quality of life.

It's one of those magical features that makes me enjoy a game less just by existing. Either I pay the toll on the QoL feature and feel lazy for "wasting" resources when I could've just done the thing manually, or I don't use it and I feel dumb for wasting my time. Just a total lose-lose that only produces bad feelings.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

exquisite tea posted:

The sudden interruption of a dramatic moment in the story with some cheeky intrusive achievement popup like SORRY YOUR MOM BLEW UP is honestly one of my favorite things about modern gaming.

The intentional comic timing in portal 2 was one of the best goofs in the game.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

exquisite tea posted:

The sudden interruption of a dramatic moment in the story with some cheeky intrusive achievement popup like SORRY YOUR MOM BLEW UP is honestly one of my favorite things about modern gaming.

In Baldur's Gate 3, when you side with Voss and the achievement comes up saying "You've made an enemy of the lich queen Vlaakith. Good luck!" made me laugh.

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005

Captain Hygiene posted:

I guess it's the Epic environment rather than the game itself, but man, they chose the most obtrusively happy sound for achievement popups. Playing Alan Wake 2, it's both aggravating and funny how much they spoil the mood when they pop up at tense moments.

Saga: "Someone's been watching us."
Casey: "Playing a sick game with us."
Game: 🎶DOODLEY DEEP!🎶 🏆10 XP

There is supposedly a way to disable that, if you google disabling epic achievement notifications you'll find it. It is apparently inconsistent and will switch itself back on for some folks though.

Fifty Farts
Dec 23, 2013

- Meticulously Researched
- Peer-reviewed
Gunpoint has some of the best achievements:

-Alright, Have One! Just Stop! : "This is an achievement in name only. No-one admires you for punching a guy that many times."
-Might As Well Have An Achievement For That Too : "Use the Gatecrashers to kick a door through a window."
-Title Finally Relevant : "Help justify my early, not entirely wise choice of game name by holding someone at gunpoint with the Resolver."
-I Am Better At This Than Tom Francis : "Complete a mission faster than I can."

And, of course:
-Acknowledged Ludonarrative Dissonance : "Notice the story doesn't necessarily gel with the mechanics. Become qualified games journalist."

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
President, Founder of the Brent Spiner Fan Club
I played some game recently, finished the whole thing, and never unlocked the achievement called something like "Figure Out How the Menu Works"

Less than half of players figured it out I guess so :confused:

Primetime
Jul 3, 2009

OutOfPrint posted:

The worst presentation of lore depends on the genre of game. In a laid back RPG, sure, give me some books to read or a conversation to engage with. In a fast paced shooter, don't.

I'm playing through remnant 2 right now after getting it on sale, and it is the absolute worst for this. The game definitely falls in the multiplayer fast paced shooter category, and it makes every bad lore dump decision possible.

Basically, two of the world's are older low tech planets where everything is written record. This means you will find massive libraries with endless text dumps if you want any context of what's going on. There's also a future planet that uses voicelogs to drop details. However, these a localized sound clips so if you move anywhere the audio will go away. Usually these voicelogs are found near elevators or otherwise empty rooms, so you can't even multi-task.

The game also doesn't store these logs so if you walk away, it's gone unless you come back later. Fortunately, the lore and story are completely optional so you can just safely ignore everything.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

Everything about Remnant 2 is a little thing dragging it down.

Redezga
Dec 14, 2006

I've been enjoying MtG Arena a lot but wish there was some sort of button to respond to my opponent that it was in fact not a "Good game".

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

The Moon Monster posted:

Some non-lore related stuff. The game has a weird checkpoint system. You've got "vestiges" which are your normal bonfires, but you've also got flowerbeds where you can plant a checkpoint. This doesn't sound so bad, but only one flower can be blooming at once so most checkpoints disappear once you've moved on a bit. And the seeds are rare enough that you'll probably start running out on your first playthrough, at least. And you can only hold 5 at once so any you pick up while your inventory is full are just consigned to oblivion. Within like a day of launch they cut the price of the seeds at the vendor by over half and changed his inventory from 5 to 99. But why put a bandaid on something you could just fix? The mechanic sucks full stop. Just give the player unlimited seeds and make them not despawn when you plant another one.

The whole plant your own checkpoint thing has been done before, but boy that sounds like an awful implementation of it. Like it's usually not tied to a pointlessly restrictive expendable resource, and for good reason.

I've also always been dubious of its merits in a soulslike anyway, since the space between bonfires defines so much of the experience. Being able to put one down at will, but only at predetermined spots...I'm struggling to understand what problem it solves or purpose it serves.

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

Redezga posted:

I've been enjoying MtG Arena a lot but wish there was some sort of button to respond to my opponent that it was in fact not a "Good game".

How long have you been playing? There's a lot of emojis and stickers you can pick up that will fill this role, but they are all time limited.

Conversely, change the settings to mute opponents and not worry about it ever again.

Redezga
Dec 14, 2006

Dienes posted:

How long have you been playing? There's a lot of emojis and stickers you can pick up that will fill this role, but they are all time limited.

Conversely, change the settings to mute opponents and not worry about it ever again.

Honestly only picked it up with the release of Wilds of Eldraine set, though I play it enough where I'm getting put up against people doing billion-step turn 2-3 game enders. I don't normally mind losing, but when I'm sitting there waiting for someone to do some sort of time consuming flex I would never have a response to it grinds my gears a little bit when I see a little 'Good game' pop up. I should just change the setting though seeing as I never use it.

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?

Fifty Farts posted:

Gunpoint has some of the best achievements:

-Alright, Have One! Just Stop! : "This is an achievement in name only. No-one admires you for punching a guy that many times."
-Might As Well Have An Achievement For That Too : "Use the Gatecrashers to kick a door through a window."
-Title Finally Relevant : "Help justify my early, not entirely wise choice of game name by holding someone at gunpoint with the Resolver."
-I Am Better At This Than Tom Francis : "Complete a mission faster than I can."

And, of course:
-Acknowledged Ludonarrative Dissonance : "Notice the story doesn't necessarily gel with the mechanics. Become qualified games journalist."

That was a cool little game,wouldn’t mind a sequel.

Fifty Farts
Dec 23, 2013

- Meticulously Researched
- Peer-reviewed

Brazilianpeanutwar posted:

That was a cool little game,wouldn’t mind a sequel.

If you haven't played Heat Signature, you should. It's not a sequel but it is the second part of Tom Francis' Defenestration Trilogy.

The third game, Tactical Breach Wizards, isn't out yet.

Zero_Grade
Mar 18, 2004

Darktider 🖤🌊

~Neck Angels~

Fifty Farts posted:

If you haven't played Heat Signature, you should. It's not a sequel but it is the second part of Tom Francis' Defenestration Trilogy.

The third game, Tactical Breach Wizards, isn't out yet.
Heat Sig rules, it was probably my favorite game I bought the year it came out and it only cost like $15. Still fun to boot up every now and then to do a few runs, because you can get up to some shenanigans.

Croccers
Jun 15, 2012
Do the seasonal events still happen?

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

John Murdoch posted:

The whole plant your own checkpoint thing has been done before, but boy that sounds like an awful implementation of it. Like it's usually not tied to a pointlessly restrictive expendable resource, and for good reason.

I've also always been dubious of its merits in a soulslike anyway, since the space between bonfires defines so much of the experience. Being able to put one down at will, but only at predetermined spots...I'm struggling to understand what problem it solves or purpose it serves.

Yeah I don't get it either. The problem with my "give the player unlimited seeds" fix is that there would be way too many checkpoints because the flowerbeds are everywhere... but that's already a problem. The number of checkpoints is just gated by your willingness to farm the moth ladies that drop the seeds, or your tolerance for loading screens now that they buffed the npc that sells them.

ishikabibble
Jan 21, 2012

Last Celebration posted:

lol, how do you miss the point of lore this badly? Like the only real reward for finding the umpteen pieces of equipment/spells you’re not gonna use for your current build in a given Soulsborne run are the cool bits of lore you get as a consolation prize. It’d be like if all the summons you got in Elden Ring just said “summons a lil guy you’ll never use. Level to +5 for lore.”

I blame Dark Souls tbh

I think the reasoning is the devs saw the response DS games get, in particular the constant online discussion about lore, all the popular videos, etc. And then thought of an even more 'clever' to implement it and encourage online discussion, by basically making it so every player is only going to have a little crumb of lore and everyone will have to all come together and share to piece it into something more applicable to the larger narrative

... but the devs are also fuckin idiots and somehow forgot that the lore discussion is a fandom thing and not something actually derived from people playing the game

I honestly wonder how many people who are deep into DS lore like, actually learned most of their info from the games vs just reading the wiki or watching three hour lore discussion vids.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



One little thing dragging down Alan Wake 2 is the map menu setup. The whole game is centered around having a mental memory palace you can jump into to keep track of all your evidence and unknowns for the cases you're investigating, etc. It's a fun idea, but I don't really like how the area maps are put in there too. So whenever you want to pull the map up, it adds some extra button presses to access it from inside the palace, maybe even moving your character around in there to get it in view to select it.

It's nothing terrible, it's just one of those things where the extra fiddling with the menu interface just gradually becomes more annoying the longer you play. The map's basic enough that I would happily give up one of the assignable shortcut buttons if it meant I could just jump straight into it without any extra nonsense.

CordlessPen
Jan 8, 2004

I told you so...

Captain Hygiene posted:

It's nothing terrible, it's just one of those things where the extra fiddling with the menu interface just gradually becomes more annoying the longer you play. The map's basic enough that I would happily give up one of the assignable shortcut buttons if it meant I could just jump straight into it without any extra nonsense.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding but you can press M to go directly to the local map, I believe.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.
If you're on PC, you can just press M and it takes you straight to the map.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
yes, you can, and the tutorial pop ups say as much

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



I was gonna get all console snooty until I remembered I'm actually on PC for once, I just forgot there was any interface beyond the gamepad :negative:

(thanks :tipshat:)

vvv Even better, I tried everything I could think of on the controller, but didn't think of that

Captain Hygiene has a new favorite as of 23:54 on Oct 30, 2023

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005
You can hold down the mind palace/writers room button for a second to go to the map on the gamepad as well.

Zero_Grade
Mar 18, 2004

Darktider 🖤🌊

~Neck Angels~

Croccers posted:

Do the seasonal events still happen?
Hell yeah they do



All the ingame effects still apply of course.

ZeusCannon
Nov 5, 2009

BLAAAAAARGH PLEASE KILL ME BLAAAAAAAARGH
Grimey Drawer

muscles like this! posted:

Destiny is probably the best example of a bad way to do lore where the only way to get it was an app outside of the game.

This is from two pages back and I dont care. I have to quote it to agree.

They also decided not to have interesting plotlines ever again in the second game which was a bold move cotton



Edit:

Zero_Grade posted:

Hell yeah they do



All the ingame effects still apply of course.

Is there actually an effect? I was playing and saw that and thought it was just a funny pop up.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Ah, finally the true Bethesda game hell. A Morrowind quest broke in a perfect storm kinda way which when combined with my own foolishness turned it into a complete boondoggle.

A slave needs to escape past slave hunters. Kill or decoy the hunters away, escort the slave to a waiting boat. Problem: The quest script that's supposed to trigger when your Khajiit charge steps onto the boat dock is just *gone*. The quest will never complete.

This problem is the worst kind of obscure. There's exactly three references to it I could get google to spit out, and two of those had no answer or followup. Doesn't help that the quest lacks a real name and is just titled after the anti-slavery organization that has gone on to receive its own heap of mod content, so the only viable search term is the Khajiit's name.

Okay, fine, after some digging I find the console command to manually force the next quest state to trigger. New problem: I forced the quest to update, but with no script trigger my new follower is permanently attached. What do?

More digging, there's a couple of options. One is the "try turning it off then back on" approach, ie, set the NPCs health to zero then resurrect them so their AI reboots. Well, first of all, turns out attempting to raise the dead while they're still in their death animation instantly crashes the game. But after I avoid that pitfall everything seems to be okay and I continue adventuring.

Then I go turn in the quest half an hour later. The contact is pissed because I murdered the man I was supposed to save. Motherfucker.

Cue losing a bunch of progress and going back in time so I can save the man's life the only other way I know how: Using the disable command to blink him out of existence. There was a scant possibility that thanks to one of my patches, turning in the quest would've done it for me (because otherwise vanilla behavior has him stand on the dock forever), but that's a level of faith I wasn't prepared to put into hoping the secondary script didn't break the same way.

Why jump through all these stupid hoops for an ultimately inconsequential side quest? Because I care that much about stomping out slavery on Vvardenfell, goddamn it. :colbert:

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

“I didn’t kill him, I merely made him cease to exist” being the solution to your problem is somehow the most aptly Morrowind response and I love it.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world


Good post.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Bussamove posted:

“I didn’t kill him, I merely made him cease to exist” being the solution to your problem is somehow the most aptly Morrowind response and I love it.

He still exists, he's just banished to the shadow-realm forever unable to interact with the real world.

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Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



Bussamove posted:

“I didn’t kill him, I merely made him cease to exist” being the solution to your problem is somehow the most aptly Morrowind response and I love it.

Hey, if it worked for the dwarves...

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