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In AV party kept trying to fight majordomo without ghost touch even though they succeeded recall knowledge checks and I was telegraphing they should go. They're down on the second level a bit earlier than they should be.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 03:42 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 02:12 |
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Apparently the Remaster is clarifying the Dying/Wounded interaction, and I'm not sure I know any tables who have been playing it right to begin with. I (and everyone I know) plays at as you add your Wounded value to your Dying value when you go down again (i.e., you have Wounded 1, you hit 0 HP, so you're now Dying 2). In addition to that, though, you are supposed to add it any time the Dying value increases, such as taking more damage or failing a recovery check. So you'd be at Dying 2, then if you take persistent bleed, it would increase Dying, adding your wounded to that makes it go to Dying 4, and voila, dead PC.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 11:39 |
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3 Action Economist posted:In addition to that, though, you are supposed to add it any time the Dying value increases, such as taking more damage or failing a recovery check. So you'd be at Dying 2, then if you take persistent bleed, it would increase Dying, adding your wounded to that makes it go to Dying 4, and voila, dead PC. Uh, that definitely wasn't how my group understood those rules. It also just doesn't really make sense, wounded 1 or wounded 2 would be pretty much the same thing; either way you die to one failed check or tick of damage after going down.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 12:12 |
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Disarm is getting buffed! And a ton of other changes I really want to dig into. Aaa.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 13:16 |
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This isn't the interpretation I would have gone with. One way you can basically afford to be downed once in a fight and be disadvantaged (actions spent using healing and having to get up afterward) but okay, the other way even one downed puts you a lot closer to perma death. I've been playing with the former and think it was still an appropriate level of danger. At least, I think when you're going into an encounter unprepared, it's normal enough that someone will go down while you're still adjusting and working out a battle plan. That seems like a buffer that should exist and that buffer is a lot shakier now.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 13:17 |
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Vanguard Warden posted:Uh, that definitely wasn't how my group understood those rules. It also just doesn't really make sense, wounded 1 or wounded 2 would be pretty much the same thing; either way you die to one failed check or tick of damage after going down. Yeah I've never seen anyone run it this way, and largely because Wounded just says: quote:If you gain the dying condition while wounded, increase the dying condition’s value by your wounded value. But the GM screen says: quote:Any time you gain the dying condition or increase it for any reason, add your wounded value to the amount you gain or increase your dying value. And the Wounded condition card similarly says: quote:Any time you gain the dying condition or increase it, add your wounded value to the amount. I definitely don't think I'll be playing it that way, because that's just asking for a lot of dead PCs. And it's weird to me, too, that we've gone through 4 errata printings and it was never addressed until this Remaster.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 13:28 |
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Jarvisi posted:Disarm is getting buffed! And a ton of other changes I really want to dig into. Aaa. I'm really liking the disarm change and giving the option to the DM whether to take the action or take the attack penalty. Sometimes when I'm DMing I try to find a way to waste an NPC's action because my group plays recklessly so that is a nice way that gives players agency. I'm excited to see if they changed the grease effect for items to match.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 14:57 |
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I like that they made my disarm houserule official
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 15:05 |
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One action to swap a held item with a carried item is a gigantic game changer for some builds
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 15:15 |
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Andrast posted:I like that they made my disarm houserule official I feel like a lot of these changes and errata are basically canonizing rules that lots of people were already playing at their tables. My two tables have been playing Recall Knowledge the way they rephrased it for almost a year now.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 15:20 |
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The disarm rule change sounds pretty great, especially since IIRC re-gripping has the manipulate trait, so it provokes AOOs/reactive strikes. Either risk getting walloped or stay flat-footed forever. Especially if you have a thaumaturge with a paragon weapon implement where any hit interrupts the action rather than just crits (I assume fighters have a way to get that too, but I don't know fighters very well). You can basically prevent the foe from ever turning off flat-footed, and punish them anytime they try. Admittedly, though, that only comes online at level 17. But, that's still a level earlier than the feat that lets rogues sneak attack stuff that's immune to sneak attacks! Mister Olympus posted:One action to swap a held item with a carried item is a gigantic game changer for some builds I haven't heard about this rule change. Does this make swapping from a ranged weapon to a melee weapon (without dropping the ranged weapon) a one-action affair, instead of two (1-action stow, 1-action draw)? Does that interact with the Quick Draw feat in any way? Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Oct 31, 2023 |
# ? Oct 31, 2023 15:36 |
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Dick Burglar posted:The disarm rule change sounds pretty great, especially since IIRC re-gripping has the manipulate trait, so it provokes AOOs/reactive strikes. Either risk getting walloped or stay flat-footed forever. Especially if you have a thaumaturge with a paragon weapon implement where any hit interrupts the action rather than just crits (I assume fighters have a way to get that too, but I don't know fighters very well). You can basically prevent the foe from ever turning off flat-footed, and punish them anytime they try. Admittedly, though, that only comes online at level 17. But, that's still a level earlier than the feat that lets rogues sneak attack stuff that's immune to sneak attacks! Fighters can do that at 10th, yeah. Disruptive Stance is a stance that buffs Reactive Strikes to fire on Concentrate in addition to Manipulate or Move, and disrupts the triggering action on a success+. I definitely want to find a high-level table and do something like that with a ranseur. Reach disarms and Disruptive Stance to really drive home "no, no one does poo poo in my reach without my permission".
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 17:31 |
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I actually got a response from James Jacob to my question about religion in Lung Wa! https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43pjr&page=4?Official-Lost-Omens-canon-conflicts-and#169 James Jacobs posted:Dominant religion ≠ only religion. Other faiths being persecuted is/was more a Po Li thing than an everywhere thing.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 18:18 |
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Dick Burglar posted:
Whether or not there’s an impending Quick Swap feat is an open question
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 18:19 |
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From my read, that rule change seems like it devalues the Quick Draw feat a lot. Most combats you're going to be allowed to start with weapons in-hand, so you usually won't be spending an action to draw your weapon. So as long as you're not surprised, you can spend one action to swap melee/ranged weapon and then use your other two actions to attack or do whatever. With Quick Draw, if you started combat with a weapon already drawn, you have to drop the weapon to take advantage of the extra action economy. Otherwise, it does nothing. It's overall a good change, but that's a poor way to write how it functions with Quick Draw. It's a net-plus for everybody because burning two of your three actions to swap the poo poo in your hands feels really bad, but I'm inclined to just skip taking Quick Draw on classes who it's available to. I guess dual wielders still gain some benefit from Quick Draw since they have to spend another action to draw their second weapon, but it's become a lot more of a niche feat. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 31, 2023 |
# ? Oct 31, 2023 19:59 |
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Got my PDFs today, gonna take some reading but so far I love everything (except that clarification on dying).
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:10 |
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Quick Draw always seemed like pretty much a feat tax for dual wielding anyway
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:10 |
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I heard subscribers were getting PDFs, but haven't found a news article on their site; will those who preordered get them soon, too?
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:13 |
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3 Action Economist posted:so far I love everything (except that clarification on dying). this is where I'm at too
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:28 |
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3 Action Economist posted:Yeah I've never seen anyone run it this way, and largely because Wounded just says: I've watched actual plays GM'd by Jason Bulmahn that used the first one, not the GM screen one. When a player came back from Dying 2 they were Wounded 1. When they went down again they came back at Wounded 2. That doesn't necessarily mean that's the rule, dude has several playtest versions of the rules in his head at any time and sometimes makes mistakes, but it seems pretty likely that's the rule as intended. Wounded going up each time you're knocked unconscious is a good rule. It makes it so that, unlike games like 5e, waiting to heal people until after they go down isn't always the optimal strategy. There's a real risk to it. But having someone at Dying 3 come back at Wounded 3 after a single down would be pretty harsh. I can see it as a variant rule for peeps who want a tense survival game, but I can't see it as the default rule for newbies.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:30 |
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Facebook Aunt posted:I've watched actual plays GM'd by Jason Bulmahn that used the first one, not the GM screen one. When a player came back from Dying 2 they were Wounded 1. When they went down again they came back at Wounded 2. That doesn't necessarily mean that's the rule, dude has several playtest versions of the rules in his head at any time and sometimes makes mistakes, but it seems pretty likely that's the rule as intended. That is the rule. What's been clarified is that, if you fail your recovery check or take more damage while dying, you increase your dying value by 1 plus your wounded value. quote:Wounded going up each time you're knocked unconscious is a good rule. It makes it so that, unlike games like 5e, waiting to heal people until after they go down isn't always the optimal strategy. There's a real risk to it. You would still come up a Wounded 1 (or, more accurately, you'd increase wounded by 1).
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:36 |
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Facebook Aunt posted:I've watched actual plays GM'd by Jason Bulmahn that used the first one, not the GM screen one. When a player came back from Dying 2 they were Wounded 1. When they went down again they came back at Wounded 2. That doesn't necessarily mean that's the rule, dude has several playtest versions of the rules in his head at any time and sometimes makes mistakes, but it seems pretty likely that's the rule as intended. it's the opposite the issue is that you add wounded on failed recovery checks and on getting hit again; the wounded number itself still only goes up when you get up too it means that if you've gone down before (and got wounded 1), if you go down again, you get 1 roll to not immediately die persistent damage is immediate death my question is whether doomed got changed/clarified too. it was very close to equivalent to wounded (as most people ran it) pre-remaster, despite the different wording, so I wonder if it was also clarified to be harsher Jen X fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Oct 31, 2023 |
# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:38 |
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3 Action Economist posted:That is the rule. What's been clarified is that, if you fail your recovery check or take more damage while dying, you increase your dying value by 1 plus your wounded value. Yeah, the concern is less "wounded exists" and more "if you add wounded every time dying increments then people are going to be incredibly skittish/defensive after going down once".
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:40 |
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Jen X posted:my question is whether doomed got changed/clarified too DOOMED posted:Your life is ebbing away, bringing you ever closer to death. Some powerful spells and evil creatures can inflict the doomed condition on you. Doomed always includes a value. The maximum dying value at which you die is reduced by your doomed value. For example, if you were doomed 1, you would die upon reaching dying 3 instead of dying 4. If your maximum dying value is ever reduced to 0, you instantly die. When you die, you’re no longer doomed.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:40 |
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"When you die, you're no longer doomed." always makes me laugh.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:42 |
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looks like nope beyond flavortext and a direct example
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:43 |
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Kyrosiris posted:"When you die, you're no longer doomed." always makes me laugh. Given some of the stupid arguments people had about being dead in past editions, I'm not surprised they made it very clear there.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:52 |
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kineticist didn't launch with a water elemental impulse that drowns someone for a bit to take them back from dying, this is a retcon of the world-physics
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:55 |
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Hunter Noventa posted:Given some of the stupid arguments people had about being dead in past editions, I'm not surprised they made it very clear there. Oh sure, but it's a loving delightful statement out of context.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 20:59 |
3 Action Economist posted:Got my PDFs today, gonna take some reading but so far I love everything (except that clarification on dying). I saw that casting all spells now require you to talk. Did they do anything to clarify whether this means that casting spells has the Auditory trait or not? (My table rules that it does; I just wish this was more clear.)
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 21:31 |
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Dick Burglar posted:From my read, that rule change seems like it devalues the Quick Draw feat a lot. Most combats you're going to be allowed to start with weapons in-hand, so you usually won't be spending an action to draw your weapon. So as long as you're not surprised, you can spend one action to swap melee/ranged weapon and then use your other two actions to attack or do whatever. With Quick Draw, if you started combat with a weapon already drawn, you have to drop the weapon to take advantage of the extra action economy. Otherwise, it does nothing. Fighters get New and Improved Quick Draw
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 21:39 |
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VikingofRock posted:I saw that casting all spells now require you to talk. Did they do anything to clarify whether this means that casting spells has the Auditory trait or not? (My table rules that it does; I just wish this was more clear.) Auditory effects also only affect creatures that can hear them, so... yeah, it probably shouldn't apply to every spell.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 21:43 |
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seems like a nice feat but i'm imagining the fighter practicing this being like one of those guys who practices sheathing and unsheathing a katana in his bedroom mirror
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 21:43 |
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Fighter remains the best class you love to see it
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 21:45 |
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this is an example of a fighter feat i actually like and isn't necessarily suited to all martial classes, though, because it specifies only weapons and shields. a lot of the weirder stuff you can do with one-action swap is related to classes like thaumaturge, or casters having easier access to scrolls and wands. this is pretty much only for a build that has two different weapon loadouts that require different amounts of hands.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 22:14 |
Lurks With Wolves posted:Auditory effects also only affect creatures that can hear them, so... yeah, it probably shouldn't apply to every spell. The way we handle this is saying that the Cast a Spell activity is Auditory, but the spell itself isn't. But yeah, this sort of thing is exactly why I think it would be nice to have some clarification here.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 22:32 |
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VikingofRock posted:The way we handle this is saying that the Cast a Spell activity is Auditory, but the spell itself isn't. But yeah, this sort of thing is exactly why I think it would be nice to have some clarification here. So, you can't cast spells while deafened? I don't understand the point.
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 23:01 |
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Auditory Source Core Rulebook pg. 629 4.0 Auditory actions and effects rely on sound. An action with the auditory trait can be successfully performed only if the creature using the action can speak or otherwise produce the required sounds. A spell or effect with the auditory trait has its effect only if the target can hear it. This applies only to sound-based parts of the effect, as determined by the GM. This is different from a sonic effect, which still affects targets who can't hear it (such as deaf targets) as long as the effect itself makes sound. It's the Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Oct 31, 2023 |
# ? Oct 31, 2023 23:03 |
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Harold Fjord posted:Auditory does the rule say it has the auditory trait or does the rule say you gotta talk and produce sounds because those are different things raw
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# ? Oct 31, 2023 23:50 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 02:12 |
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VikingofRock posted:I saw that casting all spells now require you to talk. Did they do anything to clarify whether this means that casting spells has the Auditory trait or not? (My table rules that it does; I just wish this was more clear.) I'm out but I can check in the morning if no longer posts about it before hand. I don't think they're all that way, but maybe.
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# ? Nov 1, 2023 00:24 |