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Samovar posted:That would be nice. I may be in the minority, but I really liked the whole setting/gameplay of the series. I thought in general the Dishonored series was really well liked?
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Nov 1, 2023 11:28
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The leaked/unredacted court document that mentioned Dishonored 3 dated back to 2019, before Bethesda was acquired by Microsoft (and before the pandemic completely wrecked their schedule!) The other unannounced titles on that document, that may or may not be cancelled:
Project Kestrel is rumored to be Zenimax Online Studios' next thing, while Project Platinum is rumored to be Machinegames' doing.
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Nov 1, 2023 11:36
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Dishonored is well liked but DH2 was a stinker to run on PC at release and Death of the Outsider is a bit of wasted potential, not much of a plot and ultimately 3-4 maps of extra DH2 presented as a fullish title. I'd say DotO sold poorly independent of quality. DH2 has some best of all time map design for at least two levels, serious masterpieces. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Nov 1, 2023 |
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Nov 1, 2023 11:45
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kliras posted:i quit destiny 1 since the first expansion cut you off from doing basic stuff like skirmishes, dailies, and weeklies, game has always been a mess one way or another that way, but sounds like they got even greedier its worse bcos the games got significantly better first, and specifically took a dive after forsaken which was the best the game had ever been
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Nov 1, 2023 11:58
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Stux posted:its worse bcos the games got significantly better first, and specifically took a dive after forsaken which was the best the game had ever been Fwiw I thought base Destiny 2 was pretty good. A lot better than Destiny 1 anyway. It had an actual coherant plot with exciting setpieces and everything.
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Nov 1, 2023 11:59
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kliras posted:i quit destiny 1 since the first expansion cut you off from doing basic stuff like skirmishes, dailies, and weeklies, game has always been a mess one way or another that way, but sounds like they got even greedier Bungie has always been kind of poo poo in regards to Destiny, but they've almost always had a scapegoat that made it really easy for people to argue that no, actually, bungie's good and nice and they're just being forced to be poo poo. For the longest while in Destiny 2's life Activision was blamed for every single bad thing that happened with that game, and it was a huge celebration when Bungie finally was free from that albatross around its neck! Except that was when they ushered in some of the worst changes to the game and doubled down on the greed, going so far as to openly say in an interview for one expansion that they had a ton of items made to be rewards for the expansion's activities; but then just realized they could sell them in the cash shop. So they did. And now Sony's their new scapegoat and everyone's real quick to say Sony's behind every bad thing that goes on at Bungie. But like, Bungie's just poo poo.
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Nov 1, 2023 12:01
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DaveKap posted:Deathloop is loving amazing until you realize there's only 1 way to beat the game. Then it sucks. Thankfully you only figure that out after you've finished 90% of it so it's generally pretty great. On one hand, sure, its a little disappointing there is only one way to finish the game when its otherwise incredibly free-form and open in how you tackle things. On the other, uh, even Deus Ex only has one way you can get to the ending, even if a few of the sub-bits can change.
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Nov 1, 2023 12:55
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MarcusSA posted:45% is a ridiculous drop. Posting as I catch up so someone may have said it already but "45% decrease" and "45% off of projected numbers" can be very, very different numbers, depending on the wild cocaine-induced optimism involved in the meeting where the projections were made
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Nov 1, 2023 12:56
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DaveKap posted:Deathloop is loving amazing until you realize there's only 1 way to beat the game. Then it sucks. Thankfully you only figure that out after you've finished 90% of it so it's generally pretty great. I liked deathloop as a concept piece and took issue with the execution-- a lot of the fun of immsims is the replayability and "what if I approach this mission this way instead of that way", so making it diagetic on the same playthrough felt like a natural cool idea The fact that the game just outright handed you the solution in an unavoidable way was less cool, where progression cutscenes sometimes told me what I was supposed to do before I had a chance to try and figure that out myself also Shooting Blanks posted:Arkane got away from linear games with Redfall, and to a lesser extent, Deathloop - but the Dishonored series might fit the bill. Considering how hard Redfall failed, I wouldn't be surprised if they're returning to their roots. The Redfall postmortem claimed something like a 70% quit-out rate of existing employees from Arkane (since in a shocking twist, the studio who makes immsims full of devs who want to make immsims have a hard time convincing said devs to make gaas looter shooter poo poo instead), so even if Bethesda lets them go back to immsims, the institutional knowledge loss is probably going to mean whatever they put out next would be on par with a new studio's first effort instead of a return to Dishonored/Prey 2017 style form
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Nov 1, 2023 13:12
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stev posted:Fwiw I thought base Destiny 2 was pretty good. A lot better than Destiny 1 anyway. It had an actual coherant plot with exciting setpieces and everything. yeah it got better in general. d1 the taken king was really good as well, and warmind was p good.
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Nov 1, 2023 13:18
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Nuebot posted:Bungie has always been kind of poo poo in regards to Destiny, but they've almost always had a scapegoat that made it really easy for people to argue that no, actually, bungie's good and nice and they're just being forced to be poo poo. For the longest while in Destiny 2's life Activision was blamed for every single bad thing that happened with that game, and it was a huge celebration when Bungie finally was free from that albatross around its neck! Except that was when they ushered in some of the worst changes to the game and doubled down on the greed, going so far as to openly say in an interview for one expansion that they had a ton of items made to be rewards for the expansion's activities; but then just realized they could sell them in the cash shop. So they did. And now Sony's their new scapegoat and everyone's real quick to say Sony's behind every bad thing that goes on at Bungie. But like, Bungie's just poo poo. I think there’s a natural tendency for people to imagine the heroic and underpaid game dev set against the evil greedy publisher when in many cases the leadership of these companies believe and want the same exact things when it comes to crunch, union busting, monetization, etc.
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Nov 1, 2023 13:28
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If it helps, you can imagine the heroic, underpaid game dev being pitted against the boss of the same company.
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Nov 1, 2023 13:52
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And most of them if suddenly promoted to CEO would make the exact same choices. It's the system that rewards the behavior, not the actions of the individual, although individuals can always choose to be exceptionally lovely.
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Nov 1, 2023 13:54
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i think its that a certain type of person desires to be a ceo not that the letters c, e, and o, have some special brain altering power to them.
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Nov 1, 2023 14:06
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Stux posted:i think its that a certain type of person desires to be a ceo not that the letters c, e, and o, have some special brain altering power to them. Then how come they sponsor so many episodes of Sesame Street? 
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Nov 1, 2023 14:17
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I am not following what is particularly dumb about these layoffs? Obviously when layoffs happen it's because something went wrong at some point but usually it's not the layoff itself that is the mistake. Somebody decided the cost of the studio's burn rate wasn't justified by projected forward results, and it seems plausible that they were correct?
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Nov 1, 2023 17:50
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Barudak posted:On one hand, sure, its a little disappointing there is only one way to finish the game when its otherwise incredibly free-form and open in how you tackle things. On the other, uh, even Deus Ex only has one way you can get to the ending, even if a few of the sub-bits can change.
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Nov 1, 2023 19:42
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DancingMachine posted:I am not following what is particularly dumb about these layoffs? Obviously when layoffs happen it's because something went wrong at some point but usually it's not the layoff itself that is the mistake. Somebody decided the cost of the studio's burn rate wasn't justified by projected forward results, and it seems plausible that they were correct? Specific people hit by these layoffs are unusual to a degree that undermines confidence in the greater company. If layoffs have to happen because of financial concerns, then they have to happen, but they appear to have happened regardless of seniority or history with the company, which isn't always a good look. It's a bit of tea-leaf reading but some of the higher profile ones that have garnered some attention from the community speak to a lack of competence in whoever is steering the ship. One of the notable things that Bungie is known for asides from good gunplay design is that the music in their titles is really, really good - good to a degree that most people with legitimate complaints about D2 will usually allow that the music of any given expansion remains exceptional - and in a small but notable way it informs the quality of the brand they're selling. The fact that they arbitrarily binned the head composer of D2 who, on top of decades of other work for them, was making music for the original Halo, sends a public message that at best they don't value aspects of their brands in the same way people giving them money do, and at worst are making panicked reflexive decisions to lower costs which will ultimately not result in them fixing their financial situation.
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Nov 1, 2023 19:58
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https://twitter.com/rockpapershot/status/1719787355220132128 Oh for fucks sake.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:00
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lagidnam posted:https://twitter.com/rockpapershot/status/1719787355220132128 What's wrong with this acquisition? I thought Devolver was liked because they supported and helped publish a bunch of well-received indie games.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:05
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There's a pretty big difference been publishing someone's games and buying them outright, and there are many examples in this thread of why it can be a cause for concern when an entity starts absorbing numerous studios in this way. Devolver has a good track record, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything if they begin to decide that instead of being a publishing assistant to a bunch of indie games they want to own all of those indies instead. As a similar example, Paradox was beloved for a long time before they slowly standardized the "buy an unfinished framework of a game for $50-60 and we'll finish it with $200 of DLC" game release format, and now they're starting to do stuff like shooting Harebrained Schemes in the head.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:08
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TBF Harebrained Schemes did that to themselves
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Nov 1, 2023 20:09
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Isn't Harebrain Schemes going under mostly because nobody bought their pulp fiction SRPG? Granted it's probably the publisher's responsibility to market better or fund more profitable projects, but still.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:10
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mycot posted:Isn't Harebrain Schemes going under mostly because nobody bought their pulp fiction SRPG? Granted it's probably the publisher's responsibility to market better, but still. The game also wasn’t very good and quite buggy so that’s on them.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:11
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mycot posted:Isn't Harebrain Schemes going under mostly because nobody bought their pulp fiction SRPG? Granted it's probably the publisher's responsibility to market better, but still. They wanted to make Battletech 2 but Paradox told them they didn't want to buy the rights back and presumably that led to Lamplighters
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Nov 1, 2023 20:11
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Velocity Raptor posted:What's wrong with this acquisition? I thought Devolver was liked because they supported and helped publish a bunch of well-received indie games. I'm looking at Devolvers stock value and they lost 90% in the last 2 years. Even if it's alright now, a new investor might force them to shake things up. At that point more or less everything might be on the chopping block.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:12
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They also let go of a lot of the dev team in July, way before the game came out and apparently did badly, so whether the game was a hit or not they were hosed.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:13
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It was mentioned that the Saturday Morning Cartoon aesthetic is cursed but tbh I think the Pulp Fiction Serial Pastiche is worse. Even Indiana Jones has it rough.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:13
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MarcusSA posted:TBF Harebrained Schemes did that to themselves Paradox laid off 80% of their dev team months before the game was set to release, then shoved the game out the door with minimal fanfare in a murderous release window and started talking about how they were going to write off the costs like a week after it released. I don't really like Lamplighter's League, but I really fail to see how making a mediocre-to-middling game after a series of cult hits and subsequently being hosed over and abandoned by your publisher before it even hits release is "doing it to yourself".
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Nov 1, 2023 20:15
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DancingMachine posted:I am not following what is particularly dumb about these layoffs? Obviously when layoffs happen it's because something went wrong at some point but usually it's not the layoff itself that is the mistake. Somebody decided the cost of the studio's burn rate wasn't justified by projected forward results, and it seems plausible that they were correct? The layoffs are probably not dumb, but the hiring model is, and it makes this kind of boom/bust cycle inevitable unless number always aggressively go up. I'm really curious what the business thinks it's getting by adding to teams endlessly. You certainly aren't getting n output per person added and I've *never* seen a team north of 200 that I would describe as 'efficient'. Larian's entire studio is 450 people, including business and operational overhead. Overwatch was made by a team of 90. When dev teams start sailing into the several hundreds, I have some questions for the people running the business.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:19
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DancingMachine posted:I am not following what is particularly dumb about these layoffs? Obviously when layoffs happen it's because something went wrong at some point but usually it's not the layoff itself that is the mistake. Somebody decided the cost of the studio's burn rate wasn't justified by projected forward results, and it seems plausible that they were correct? I would say the layoffs are dumb in that it's mostly hitting the teams of the game that is funding their entire studio right now, and the things that went wrong are clearly management-related who are doing fine. They're siphoning cash from their productive and unique game that realistically has no real competitors to develop their new baby, which is releasing into a crowded and niche market that has significant competition with expectations of great success. Basically they have a bird in their left hand they're squeezing for blood to feed the bird in their right hand hiding in the bush they haven't caught yet. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Nov 1, 2023 |
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Nov 1, 2023 20:46
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mycot posted:It was mentioned that the Saturday Morning Cartoon aesthetic is cursed but tbh I think the Pulp Fiction Serial Pastiche is worse. Even Indiana Jones has it rough. I think, unironically, a big part of it is that weird racism/sexism so so built into the concept that trying to avoid it leaves you with almost nothing to work with. Even Indy, rest his son's soul, basically skirts by on Harrison Ford's charisma and everyone kind of tugging their collar and looking the other way for most of Temple of Doom.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:58
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Yeah, I would always prefer fewer people and more time, but the business always wants less time and is usually willing to throw more people at it to get it. Of course the results don't usually work out the way the business wants when they do that but it looks good on paper initially.
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Nov 1, 2023 21:02
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AceOfFlames posted:They wanted to make Battletech 2 but Paradox told them they didn't want to buy the rights back and presumably that led to Lamplighters Yeah, that's the rumour I heard. Paradox said we want game and Harebrained said people loved Battletech 2, Paradox said not that, what else do you have? And apparently the Lamplighter's League was the idea they liked best? mycot posted:It was mentioned that the Saturday Morning Cartoon aesthetic is cursed but tbh I think the Pulp Fiction Serial Pastiche is worse. Even Indiana Jones has it rough. I think it's only beat by people's disinterest in Arthurian themeing
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Nov 1, 2023 21:03
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fez_machine posted:I think it's only beat by people's disinterest in Arthurian themeing I think a lot of those settings are just too "stock" these days. Part of the problem is that those throwback settings often feel very generic and musty. If you aren't doing something new and interesting with the concept and if you aren't a existing/licensed property that already uses that setting, then it would be hard to stand out.
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Nov 1, 2023 21:18
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kliras posted:i quit destiny 1 since the first expansion cut you off from doing basic stuff like skirmishes, dailies, and weeklies, game has always been a mess one way or another that way, but sounds like they got even greedier I remember the discourse around this being a mess of nonsensical justifications. For example, people would say Bungie was forced to push expansion-only content into a single weekly rotation as if "if DLC then DLC Map, else Base Map" would take some feat of engineering. That whole franchise has been about Bungie pushing monetization strategies behind a thin shield of plausible deniability.
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Nov 1, 2023 21:20
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iirc, they also pushed the ilvl requirements up for older maps which meant that even when you'd get non-dlc maps, you'd still struggle with them (since you couldn't access the maps and modes that'd give you better gear) i don't remember a dev ever breaking the vanilla mode of a game like that
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Nov 1, 2023 21:27
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lagidnam posted:https://twitter.com/rockpapershot/status/1719787355220132128 Oh, poo poo. I used to work there. I always figured they’d get bought by Microsoft tbh. vvv Hey Colin o/ Pseudoscorpion fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 1, 2023 21:34
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lagidnam posted:https://twitter.com/rockpapershot/status/1719787355220132128 Oh hey! This is us! I think the best way to put it is this is the 5th M&A I've been through in my last four studios, and this is the first one I feel properly comfortable going into. Who knows what the future brings, but so far Devolver are super cool people to work with.
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Nov 1, 2023 23:21
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BabelFish posted:Oh hey! This is us! Thanks for making such a cool game! When our kid was tiny my wife and I would make plans for the 45-60 minute chunks we'd get to play together while he napped. It's a very special game for us both.
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