|
Even in SEED where the Archangel is specifically built to face off against Mobile Suits with a shitload of AA and general armaments, it's still hard-pressed to fend off a determined Gundam or two without the Strike to run interference.
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 01:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 17:47 |
|
Gaius Marius posted:Also it makes no sense. If the ships actually had appropriate levels of AA we'd not see bullshit like the Sinanju v. Argama In the seed episode I just watched they were firing turrets off everywhere, they just couldn't hit any mobile suits because lmao. Half the time one of the gundams would just fly up and shoot the cockpit which makes sense. The rest of the time the ginns would just fire off some hand held missiles and they'd explode which just makes me wonder how on earth any of these ships managed to last in any kind of war. Like, the war against zaft in seed is so hilariously one sided it's wild.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 01:54
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:Bring some IBO bruiser ships into the fray and they could probably kill a Salamis just by ramming it. Probably? Given the onscreen showings, I think one Halfbeak could solo most SEED fleets, no MS compliment needed. A ramming ship like the Hammerhead would just be funnier when doing it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 02:26
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Probably? Given the onscreen showings, I think one Halfbeak could solo most SEED fleets, no MS compliment needed. A ramming ship like the Hammerhead would just be funnier when doing it. Tearing through a whole fleet before hitting a ship with PS and getting no selled
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 02:37
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:Tearing through a whole fleet before hitting a ship with PS and getting no selled Phase shift gets broken by kinetic force often enough to say it can work, and 50,000 tons moving at about 350 times the speed of sound at sea level is a lot of kinetic force.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 04:06
|
|
|
You guys are nuts, the CE universe features a hard counter to any ship from the IBO universe. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 04:28
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:In the seed episode I just watched they were firing turrets off everywhere, they just couldn't hit any mobile suits because lmao. Half the time one of the gundams would just fly up and shoot the cockpit which makes sense. The rest of the time the ginns would just fire off some hand held missiles and they'd explode which just makes me wonder how on earth any of these ships managed to last in any kind of war. Like, the war against zaft in seed is so hilariously one sided it's wild. To be fair, the handheld missiles Ginns are shooting are absolutely loving titanic.  It doesn't seem terribly silly for a ship to eat poo poo when it's getting smashed by multiple missiles the size of mobile suits. Most of the pre-mobile suit mobile armors we see in CE aren't packing anything remotely like that, with the singular exception of the nuke Moebiuses which are war crime delivery services.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 04:36
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:In the seed episode I just watched they were firing turrets off everywhere, they just couldn't hit any mobile suits because lmao. Half the time one of the gundams would just fly up and shoot the cockpit which makes sense. The rest of the time the ginns would just fire off some hand held missiles and they'd explode which just makes me wonder how on earth any of these ships managed to last in any kind of war. Like, the war against zaft in seed is so hilariously one sided it's wild. The major factor in the war is that ZAFT does not have a very large number of pilots. The total population of Coordinators is (depending on sources) somewhere around 40 million. (So roughly the population of Tokyo.) Only a small number of those are able to be effective mobile suit pilots, to the point ZAFT was already starting to field children because they straight-up did not have enough available pilots otherwise. Mobile suits + superhuman pilots + them dropping the Neutron Jammers means that ZAFT does have an absolutely overwhelming advantage but like Zeon before them that advantage only applies until the Alliance can start getting their own countermeasures up because even if every GINN is worth 10 alliance mobile suits and 2 carriers, the EA can afford to absorb that and ZAFT can't, and most GINN pilots are just frankly not that good. This is why (aside from the LOL SO EVIL part) the EA is pumping out like four or five different kinds of terrible warcrime pilots. Combat Coordinators/Socius Clones, Extendeds and the Druggies are all examples of stopgap measures designed to basically let the EA field mobile suits while they ramped that up because the big barrier in SEED wasn't the production of mobile suits but making them pilotable by disposable cannon fodder instead of expensive crimes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 04:58
|
|
|
Also coordinators just flat out being better humans is kind of weird to me. Maybe it's just been a while and I'm wrong, but I remember older gundam shows being kind of vague on what newtypes could even do, ranging from like being able to sense one another to outright psychic bullshit and generally just being more perceptive and the like, particularly in space and then the implication being that eventually all of humanity would become newtypes if the colonization of space continued. Meanwhile coordinators are just like, scientifically made better people which starts a race war. EDIT: I was also finally able to figure out I'm watching the HD re-release not the original. Nuebot fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Nov 5, 2023 |
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 11:18
|
|
|
didn't later lore expand on that by making it also a class war because of course the poors couldn't afford the treatment for their kids.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 13:32
|
|
|
Argas posted:didn't later lore expand on that by making it also a class war because of course the poors couldn't afford the treatment for their kids. To some extent, though it's less "rich vs poor" and more "rich people who liked designer babies against the poor being incited and manipulated by the rich who hated designer babies". The rich people who could afford to make their children into coordinators and the early coordinators themselves all went into space to build space utopia colonies and left all the poors who couldn't afford it and the rich who hated the idea on Earth, which of course left the anti-coordinator rich people left on Earth in an excellent place to spread their takes on the matter virtually unopposed to a vast audience of people who had never had the resources to make their own choice on the matter in the first place. The coordinators did not do much to prove anti-coordinator sentiment wrong in the eyes of the common person by carpet bombing the planet with n-jammers that destroyed the power grid and wrecked the economy(even though they had their own understandable reasons for doing so, given that the most zealous anti-coordinator faction had already proven that they had access to nuclear weapons and no fear about using them on anything and anyone).
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 14:07
|
|
|
Also the CE setting also has newtypes (Maybe by another name, I forgot) as well.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 15:52
|
|
|
Zedd posted:Also the CE setting also has newtypes (Maybe by another name, I forgot) as well. I don't think they're even given a proper name, they're just people with higher spatial awareness. The series explains very little about them, they're just...there. It seems to be genetic since Mu's family (dad, himself, clones) all can do that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 16:54
|
|
|
on the subject of seed, i remember when it was airing some people insisted on really weird romanizations. mwu la fllaga, ssigh, etc. what was the source of those?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 17:42
|
|
|
Probably Japanese articles or merchandise. Sometimes merchandise can have weird/inconsistent romanization
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 17:53
|
|
|
Yeah when SEED was airing their wasn't really a consistent Rominization/English guide for names so it could get pretty wild. Now they wouldn't let the happen (which is shame in a way as I kinda of miss some of the wild ways names could change like say between the Ranma manga and the Ranma Hard Battle game)
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 17:58
|
|
|
It still happens sometimes for Sentai and Rider which are products that aren't expected to officially reach English speaking audiences
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 18:06
|
|
|
One thing I remember being told when I watched SEED, and maybe I just missed where this was said in the anime, was that the superweapon at the end of SEED )GENESIS?) wasn't even made by the Coordinators, or at least not totally. Also something about how the space colonies themselves weren't made by the Coordinators but were something they just kinda took over? Point is, it felt like the show presented the Coordinators as much more technologically advanced and then someone told me "nope, they just took a lot of their stuff from other people." I cannot for the life of me remember if this is correct or if it's maybe expanded in some non-anime lore.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 18:21
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:One thing I remember being told when I watched SEED, and maybe I just missed where this was said in the anime, was that the superweapon at the end of SEED )GENESIS?) wasn't even made by the Coordinators, or at least not totally. Also something about how the space colonies themselves weren't made by the Coordinators but were something they just kinda took over? Iirc correctly, the PLANTS were designed by George Glenn, the first Coordinator. But construction began before there were that many Coordinators so it would’ve had to have been largely Natural labor, at least for the first ones. But it was certainly linked to the Coordinator idea for the future of mankind. As for Coordinators stealing technology, I don’t know about that. If that’s a thing then yeah it would have to be in one of the Astray mangas or something.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 18:37
|
|
|
Mister Olympus posted:on the subject of seed, i remember when it was airing some people insisted on really weird romanizations. mwu la fllaga, ssigh, etc. what was the source of those? A part of those weird names was that SEED was the first new Gundam show to air in Japan after Gundam Wing had aired on Toonami, so there was a massively larger following in the West, and all sorts of people were trying to translate names. There weren't official translations put out with the shows as they aired (That's something that didn't start until maybe 00 or one of the shows that followed it), so different websites, fansub groups, and so on ran with their own translations, and some became more common than others.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 18:40
|
|
|
Would that debate over the romanizations have happened around the time they started standardizing the English pronunciations for UC shows as well?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 20:06
|
|
|
see, i could believe either "fansubber with a bug up their rear end" and "bandai just shrugged and put some letters on a gunpla box" (looking at you 'qwrof' or whatever he's spelled from hunter x hunter), but i'm curious where specifically these first emerged because i remember them feeling so arbitrary compared even to other gundam names from other series
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 20:46
|
|
|
The bizarre rear end SEED spellings for names were from official romanizations at the time. Everyone called him Mu at the time until the word of god said it was Mwu.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 20:47
|
|
|
Kanos posted:The bizarre rear end SEED spellings for names were from official romanizations at the time. Everyone called him Mu at the time until the word of god said it was Mwu. M'uwu
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 20:58
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:Would that debate over the romanizations have happened around the time they started standardizing the English pronunciations for UC shows as well? Shortly after, as the OYW-era UC stuff had already been released. The MSG movie trilogy, 0080, and 0083 were done in 98/99, the MSG series and 08th were done in 01, and CCA was 02 (Releasing on DVD around the same time SEED started airing).
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 21:10
|
|
|
And even the UC stuff had its struggles between the novels and then, with your Shars, your Zaks, your Gun-drat
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 21:15
|
|
|
I think even 08th MS Team pronounced Kycelia as Ksheria like the older dubs. Surprised it aired at same time as 0079 stateside.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 21:22
|
|
|
Waffleman_ posted:And even the UC stuff had its struggles between the novels and then, with your Shars, your Zaks, your Gun-drat Don't forget Zion. Even if remembering it makes you weep.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 21:42
|
|
|
Jab-raow
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 21:53
|
|
|
Heck as recently as a couple years ago GBO2 made a big goof and was calling the Hyaku Shiki the Type 100 for like a year before they corrected it
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 22:12
|
|
|
Jion
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 22:21
|
|
|
Mister Olympus posted:on the subject of seed, i remember when it was airing some people insisted on really weird romanizations. mwu la fllaga, ssigh, etc. what was the source of those? Official english newtype magazine
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 22:43
|
|
|
Waffleman_ posted:It still happens sometimes for Sentai and Rider which are products that aren't expected to officially reach English speaking audiences 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 22:47
|
|
|
It's worth noting some of those wacky-rear end things just ended up being what everyone used, which is why we have Yzak instead of Isaac. Athrun was also Aslan for a good chunk of time before Athrun stuck.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 00:01
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:I think even 08th MS Team pronounced Kycelia as Ksheria like the older dubs. Surprised it aired at same time as 0079 stateside.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 01:22
|
|
|
BlackLagoon posted:08th was the last UC Gundam dub Bandai Entertainment produced (I wouldn't be surprised if it was made earlier and its release was just delayed.) Starting with 0079 Sunrise took direct control over the English UC release and Bandai just distributed what they were given. What about F91? From what I've gathered it wasn't dubbed until 2004 (by Bang Zoom, apparently... using almost the entire Animaze voiceover crew. Seriously why are dub studios so interchangeable like that). Was Bandai just sitting on that one while Sunrise worked with Ocean/Blue Water on other Gundam works? Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Nov 6, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 01:31
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Don't forget Zion. Even if remembering it makes you weep. I mean to be fair that’s not entirely incorrect, the rendering in english as Zeon was a deliberate choice to avoid any allegations of antisemitism by English media
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 01:52
|
|
|
fartknocker posted:A part of those weird names was that SEED was the first new Gundam show to air in Japan after Gundam Wing had aired on Toonami, so there was a massively larger following in the West, and all sorts of people were trying to translate names. There weren't official translations put out with the shows as they aired (That's something that didn't start until maybe 00 or one of the shows that followed it), so different websites, fansub groups, and so on ran with their own translations, and some became more common than others. I think it was during 00 because I remember preview material coming out with poo poo like “Solestal Bang’s supercomputer VADER” but it was cleaned up by the time it aired.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 01:55
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:What about F91? From what I've gathered it wasn't dubbed until 2004 (by Bang Zoom, apparently... using almost the entire Animaze voiceover crew). Was Bandai just sitting on that one while Sunrise worked with Ocean/Blue Water on other Gundam works?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 01:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 17:47 |
|
|
Could they have also been alluding to the Zeons from Doctor Who? They showed up in a Tom Baker episode in early 1979.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 01:58
|
|