USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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HisMajestyBOB: Oct 21, 2010; College Slice

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/IAPolls2022/status/1724940242744954967

Is Fox still using a high quality normie pollster or did they jettison them after 2020? Assuming high quality and not a rigged poll, this I think would give more credence to "the polling is fucky" as these don't comport with the election outcomes we've been seeing over the last 2 years. "Democrats are popular but Biden isn't" was one argument against that, but this poll shows that all democrats are performing equally as poor as Biden.

Is Biden not on the ballot in Georgia?

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:11

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# ? May 23, 2024 08:31

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

A lot of people seem to think that �critical thinking� is starting from what you believe now, seeking out sources arguing the opposite, and then switching to believing those instead

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:12

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

haveblue posted:

A lot of people seem to think that �critical thinking� is starting from what you believe now, seeking out sources arguing the opposite, and then switching to believing those instead

I'm not sure how that would even work or have ever seen anyone do this? Seems like it would have a person constantly flip flopping, do you have an example?

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:14

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

socialsecurity posted:

Yeah a fair number of leftists I know have started repeating right wing propaganda as fact, it's like the idea of "think critically about what this person is trying to convince you of" part of their brain gets shut off the moment that thing is critical of America because America/the dems = bad therefore anything that is against them must be good.

I'm unsure how to counteract that because they refuse to look at basically any sources because it's all "media lies" and only believe what's being told to them in their echo chambers. It feels exactly like what happened with my friends parents when they started going down the fox news hole.

There's a natural tendency to believe anything that reinforces our priors and once you swallow enough heuristic damage it's real easy to fall down a rabbit hole. Intelligence and education aren't sufficient protections and if anything may make you more vulnerable due to overconfidence in your own beliefs.

I'm starting to suspect the only real defenses are humility, kindness, and the deliberate avoidance of all social media other than Wikipedia.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:14

BonoMan: Feb 20, 2002; Jade Ear Joe

MonkeyOnFire posted:

For those who can stomach it, I feel like this is bordering on required reading as a civic duty. It's not long, but it hits hard. Hard. Everything there is devastating, but those Uvalde pics...jesus loving christ.

Yeah. Man I just don't think I can do it. Seeing any of the young school pics (with young kids in school) would be too much I think.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:15

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

socialsecurity posted:

I'm not sure how that would even work or have ever seen anyone do this?

Internet atheists who are ex evangelicals. Libertarians who are now authoritarian communists.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:17

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Bar Ran Dun posted:

Internet atheists who are ex evangelicals. Libertarians who are now authoritarian communists.

Ah yeah the first one especially hits the nail on the head, I've seen both sides of getting in/out of religion do exactly that basically.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:18

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

There's a natural tendency to believe anything that reinforces our priors and once you swallow enough heuristic damage it's real easy to fall down a rabbit hole. Intelligence and education aren't sufficient protections and if anything may make you more vulnerable due to overconfidence in your own beliefs.

I'm starting to suspect the only real defenses are humility, kindness, and the deliberate avoidance of all social media other than Wikipedia.

My defense is: The more something confirms my priors the more I interrogate it. Or intend to, anyway, when I don't is when I get in trouble.

BonoMan posted:

Yeah. Man I just don't think I can do it. Seeing any of the young school pics (with young kids in school) would be too much I think.

I'm already maximally for gun control, I don't see the utility in performing some sort of psychological ritual of flesh mortification.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:30

BonoMan: Feb 20, 2002; Jade Ear Joe

zoux posted:

I'm already maximally for gun control, I don't see the utility in performing some sort of psychological ritual of flesh mortification.

same

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:31

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

zoux posted:

My defense is: The more something confirms my priors the more I interrogate it. Or intend to, anyway, when I don't is when I get in trouble.

In theory, sure, but from what I've read, cognitive biases remain even when you're aware of them and trying to compensate for them.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:32

BUUNNI: Jun 23, 2023; by Pragmatica

The issue is most people find data that agrees with their hypotheses and say �the data backs up what I believe� instead of �the data doesn�t disprove my belief�.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:35

Acebuckeye13: Nov 2, 2010; Ultra Carp

I simply never believe anything I read on the internet.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:39

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

i just don't believe anything

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:40

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

a strange and magical world with no form or truths

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:40

Orthanc6: Nov 4, 2009

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

In theory, sure, but from what I've read, cognitive biases remain even when you're aware of them and trying to compensate for them.

That's where humility and forgiveness come in. People, including ourselves WILL mess up on the very positions we care for the most. We all do it, and it will always happen at some point. Give as many people the benefit of the doubt as you can; maybe they made a mistake and try constructive, non-personal critique to correct their position. Then also apply that to yourself when you are being critiqued; maybe you did mess up, maybe they are trying to help constructively but probably don't know the best way to convey that to you specifically.

Of course everyone has their patience limits, assess each hill individually if it's worth fighting on or not.

The exception is for people in power, the cost of having greater responsibility is being held to a higher behavioral and rhetorical standard. We can't afford letting them screw up as often as the average citizen, if they can't take that heat then they need to get out of the kitchen. Or is the case for seemingly half of politicians these days, legally removed from said kitchen.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:44

MonkeyOnFire: Jun 3, 2004; I LOVE MONKEYS

zoux posted:

I'm already maximally for gun control, I don't see the utility in performing some sort of psychological ritual of flesh mortification.

Completely understood. For me, it helps to strengthen my resolve on this subject, but I keep hoping that an article like this or the in-depth portrait of the crime scene investigators at Sandy Hook will help to keep folks who consider gun control a lower priority from just thinking about the consequences in terms of numbers when another mass shooting pops up on the evening news. I don't want any more destruction, but if it keeps happening, there's got to be an Emmett Till moment in hopes of turning things around.

I dunno, it's probably foolish to think the US is gonna find the light on this issue. It should have happened ages ago. It NEEDED to happen after Sandy Hook. Maybe we're just terrible. But I sure as poo poo don't want to see my kids (or anybody else) turned into a pile of parts because they were sitting in the wrong classroom on the wrong day, and I want people to snap the gently caress out of it before I have to take that call, y'know?

So, yeah, in the meantime, I hope the media keeps reminding people of the actual consequences of our collective inaction.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:48

Bodyholes: Jun 30, 2005

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/IAPolls2022/status/1724940242744954967

Is Fox still using a high quality normie pollster or did they jettison them after 2020? Assuming high quality and not a rigged poll, this I think would give more credence to "the polling is fucky" as these don't comport with the election outcomes we've been seeing over the last 2 years. "Democrats are popular but Biden isn't" was one argument against that, but this poll shows that all democrats are performing equally as poor as Biden.

I think it's real. If the election were held right now, Biden would lose hard. The problem is young minority voters peeling away. These people don't vote in midterms. They don't necessarily support Republicans, they see Trump as a protest vote that will get Democrats' attention (even though the last couple times it didn't).

I do think polls are overestimating conservative support some amount byt the directionality of the result is right. There's a year for that to change though.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:53

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

MonkeyOnFire posted:

For those who can stomach it, I feel like this is bordering on required reading as a civic duty. It's not long, but it hits hard. Hard. Everything there is devastating, but those Uvalde pics...jesus loving christ.

Gotta second this.

You can skip the pictures, but the article itself (which is just one part of a series) is almost equally brutal and important.

Foreward:

quote:

Why we are publishing disturbing content from AR-15 mass shootings

In �Terror on repeat,� the latest story in our series examining the role of the AR-15 in American life, The Washington Post is taking the unusual step of publishing photographs and videos taken during the immediate aftermaths of some of the nation�s deadliest mass shootings.

Like other news organizations, we cover the effects of these tragedies when they occur. But because journalists generally do not have access to crime scenes and news organizations rarely if ever publish graphic content, most Americans have no way to understand the full scope of an AR-15�s destructive power or the extent of the trauma inflicted on victims, survivors and first responders when a shooter uses this weapon on people.

Drawing on the details of 11 mass killings from the past 11 years, this story is the result of a months-long effort to examine these episodes as a cumulative and relatively recent phenomenon that has upended communities across the country.

The story is largely narrated by those who experienced the shootings firsthand. It reveals the commonalities shared by each tragedy � the sudden transition from normal life to terror, then the onset of chaos, destruction and death, and, finally, the gruesome aftermath of investigation and cleanup.

Our decision to publish this story came after careful and extensive deliberation among the reporters and editors who worked on it, as well as senior leaders in our newsroom.

The goal was to balance two crucial objectives: to advance the public�s understanding of mass killers� increasing use of this readily available weapon, which was originally designed for war, while being sensitive to victims� families and communities directly affected by AR-15 shootings.

While many types of firearms, including other semiautomatic rifles, are used to commit violent crimes, the AR-15 has soared in popularity over the past two decades and is now the gun used more than any other in the country�s deadliest mass shootings.

In the end, we decided that there is public value in illuminating the profound and repeated devastation left by tragedies that are often covered as isolated news events but rarely considered as part of a broader pattern of violence.

We filed more than 30 public records requests in jurisdictions that had investigated AR-15 shootings since 2012, the year that included massacres at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., and at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., seeking medical examiner records, crime scene photographs, police body-camera footage and other investigative files. Most of our requests were rejected, with officials citing ongoing investigations or local laws preventing the release of such information. Officials in some communities released documents in response to our requests, including Dayton, Ohio, Aurora and Las Vegas.

Our reporters also gathered court records and other information that had previously been made public, and scoured social media and websites for photos and videos that may have surfaced after AR-15 shootings and that we could authenticate. They interviewed survivors and first responders willing to share their experiences, searched for official transcripts of witness testimony and compiled relevant interviews conducted in the past by Post journalists � amassing firsthand accounts that are crucial to this story.

The Post separately obtained a collection of evidence from the 2022 shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Tex., compiled by state and federal police, some of which has not previously been made public. Those files include intensely graphic crime scene photos and videos taken moments after police entered the classrooms where 19 students and two teachers were killed.

Before viewing the graphic content, our reporters and editors participated in training by the Dart Center for Journalism and Trauma, learning best practices for viewing disturbing photos and discussing how publishing them could affect readers.

At the same time, reporters and editors engaged in intensive discussions over the merits of publishing disturbing photographs and videos. We engaged in conversations with advocates, including victims� families, some of whom see a potential value in publishing content to increase public awareness and others who see such publication as dehumanizing and traumatizing.

Our team grappled with our own standard practices when it comes to publishing graphic content. We seek to be thoughtful about how doing so affects victims of violence and those who care about them, but we also recognize that at times disturbing photos and videos can add to an accurate understanding of events. We also realize that news outlets are often more comfortable publishing pictures of violence overseas, where some of our readers are less likely to have a direct connection.

For this project, we established one ground rule at the start of our reporting: If we sought to publish any pictures of identifiable bodies, we would seek permission from the families of the victims. Some families indicated they would be open to granting permission, but ultimately we decided that the potential harm to victims� families outweighed any potential journalistic value of showing recognizable bodies. We ultimately included nine photos from the Uvalde files showing scenes inside the classrooms taken shortly after bodies were removed. In addition, we show sealed body bags in the school hallway.

The only photograph in this story showing bodies is one taken immediately after the 2017 shooting at the Route 91 Harvest festival in Las Vegas. We felt the scene captured in this photo � a field strewn with the dead and wounded beneath the Las Vegas skyline � illustrates why witnesses often liken AR-15 shootings to American war zones. The perspective of the photograph, in which the victims are seen from a distance, makes it unlikely that individuals could be identified.

As we prepared to publish this story in recent days, we sought to be sensitive to the people most directly affected � providing advance notice to many families of victims, their representatives and community leaders so they could choose to avoid the coverage if they preferred.

We realize this story will be disturbing to readers, but we believe that publishing these images gives the public a new vantage point into the pattern of AR-15 mass killings in the United States. We hope that readers will share their feedback in the comments section at the end of the story.

First article in the series:

quote:

Mass shootings involving AR-15s have become a recurring American nightmare.

The weapon, easy to operate and widely available, is now used more than any other in the country�s deadliest mass killings.

Fired by the dozens or hundreds in rapid succession, bullets from AR-15s have blasted through classroom doors and walls. They have shredded theater seats and splintered wooden church pews. They have mangled human bodies and, in a matter of seconds, shattered the lives of people attending a concert, shopping on a Saturday afternoon, going out with friends and family, working in their offices and worshiping at church and synagogue. They have killed first-graders, teenagers, mothers, fathers and grandparents.

But the full effects of the AR-15�s destructive force are rarely seen in public.

The impact is often shielded by laws and court rulings that keep crime scene photos and records secret. Journalists do not typically have access to the sites of shootings to document them. Even when photographs are available, news organizations generally do not publish them, out of concern about potentially dehumanizing victims or retraumatizing their families.

Now, drawing on an extensive review of photographs, videos and police investigative files from 11 mass killings between 2012 and 2023, The Washington Post is publishing the most comprehensive account to date of the repeating pattern of destruction wrought by the AR-15 � a weapon that was originally designed for military combat but has in recent years become one of the best-selling firearms on the U.S. market.

This piece includes never-before-released pictures taken by law enforcement officials after shootings inside Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Tex., in 2022, and the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Tex., in 2017, that were obtained by The Post. It is also based on Post interviews with survivors and first responders from multiple shootings as well as transcripts of official testimony provided by law enforcement officials who were among the first to witness the carnage. Read a note here from the executive editor about how The Post decided what to publish and why.

The review lays bare how the AR-15, a weapon that has soared in popularity over the past two decades as a beloved tool for hunting, target practice and self-defense, has also given assailants the power to instantly turn everyday American gathering places into zones of gruesome violence.

This is an oral history told in three parts that follows the chronological order of a typical AR-15 mass shooting. It weaves together pictures, videos and the recollections of people who endured different tragedies but have similar stories to tell.

PART 1
SHOTS ARE FIRED

To some it sounds like fireworks, to others a deafening roar. The initial burst from the AR-15 is often the first sign that something unusual is happening. Moments later, bullets riddle walls, windows, shelves and notebooks. Some people are shot and others scramble for safety. Later, investigators identify dozens or hundreds of bullet casings.

All of a sudden, out of nowhere, you just hear the loudest, most unbelievably piercing sound you�ve ever heard in your life. Danielle Gilbert, high school student. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Parkland, Fla.

People started screaming, and there was hysteria and people were dropping to the ground. Heather Brown Sallan, vendor. Route 91 Harvest festival, Las Vegas.

I turned around and ... looked at the back doors, just trying to get my bearings and figure out, is this some kids throwing firecrackers? David Colbath, church congregant. First Baptist Church, Sutherland Springs, Tex.

I heard what sounded like metal chairs falling, and I figured that was for the holiday program or something. Abbey Clements, teacher. Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newtown, Conn.

I just saw things flying off the walls, and that�s when it hit me � that it was bullets, that it was a gun that was firing off. Arnulfo Reyes, teacher. Robb Elementary School, Uvalde, Tex.

The face my wife made the moment we heard shots and she started to run with the stroller � super tense � I don�t know how to describe it. Daniel Seijas, shopper. Allen Premium Outlets, Allen, Tex.

Smoke filled the place up from the constant shooting inside here. ... You could smell the smoke. David Colbath, church congregant. Sutherland Springs.
Since it was pitch black, I could see the muzzle flashes coming from that left side. ... There was drywall fragments falling from the ceiling. Anthony Burke, police detective and SWAT officer. Tree of Life Congregation, Pittsburgh.

To be able to cope with being in a position where I couldn�t do anything, I did the most useful thing that I can think of: I was counting rounds and reloads. Morgan Workman, church congregant. Sutherland Springs.

The bullets were ricocheting off the street. ... You could hear the pinging and the ricocheting of them hitting the cars around you. It was the chaos of it � it just kept going and going and going. Heather Brown Sallan, vendor. Las Vegas.

Before he ever came in, there was really hardly anybody that could rise up and challenge him. But with these bullets just flying through the air, there was nobody going to be able to do it and nobody could. David Colbath, church congregant. Sutherland Springs.

I got shot four times ...I thought I got hit with a ton of bricks � so I looked behind me to try to see if there�s anyone to help me. And all I could see was blood. Maddy Wilford, high school student in classroom 1213, Parkland.

There�s dust everywhere. There�s debris. ... I had like dust and debris coming off of my hands. � I was still just covered from head to toe. Danielle Gilbert, high school student. Parkland.
When I could hear the gunfire, I knew where he was. When I didn�t hear the gunfire, I�m thinking, �Oh my gosh, he�s coming this way.� I kept thinking that everyone was dead. There�s no way they�re not all dead. Dallas Schwartz, employee. Old National Bank, Louisville.

I only thought he got shot one time, and it was five. ... As the police and them come to us I just grab on my dad and just kept telling him I loved him before he died. Dion Green, bar patron. Oregon Historic District, Dayton, Ohio.

PART 2
THE ATTACK UNFOLDS

In minutes, injured and dead fall to the floor. Some are able to flee, others are rushed to safety by police. Smoke from the rifle fills the air. The Post obtained never-before-published photographs from Robb Elementary School classrooms 111 and 112 in Uvalde. They show the carnage left behind, including the large volume of blood that collects. The photos, along with personal accounts describing young children�s lifeless bodies, echo descriptions provided 11 years earlier by witnesses at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

He shot the students there under the table. And so, I didn�t hear any yelling or crying. But I think it was due to the bullets, the gun, being so loud. Arnulfo Reyes, teacher. Uvalde.
I was stunned. I was hurt. I couldn�t move. Two kids fell on my back. Another two kids fell on those two kids� back. We were stacked up right here like cordwood. David Colbath, church congregant. Sutherland Springs.

I saw my right arm get blown open in two places and my right hand. The pain was the worst pain I ever felt. I looked at it as I felt it, and it looked like shredded raw meat. And there was a lot of blood. Andrea Wedner, synagogue congregant. Pittsburgh.

It was a war zone and there was injured, there was blood everywhere. There was magazines, there was bullets. Danielle Gilbert, high school student. Parkland.

I notice on the whiteboard it looked like somebody had taken, like, their hand and, like, it just, it was wrote in blood � it looked like they wrote LOL on the whiteboard. Travis Shrewsbury, Border Patrol agent. Uvalde.

I could hear a little girl say, �Officers come in, we�re in here,� and she sounded far away so I knew it was in the other room. And she said that once. And then maybe two or three minutes later she said it again. And then I just heard him walk into that other room. And he shot some more. So after that I didn�t hear her no more. And so I had figured he had killed her. Arnulfo Reyes, teacher. Uvalde.

My breathing was changing, it was getting more shallow, more rapid. I was salivating. I was losing my ability to expand my lungs. I was drooling. The pressure in my abdomen was getting greater by the minute and through my rectum. I felt that I was leaving. ... I felt that I was dying. Daniel Leger, synagogue congregant. Pittsburgh.

I could hear people screaming, and I could hear people � you know, last words were uttered, things that were � fear, and just really awful sounds. And then it eventually started getting quieter. And that was the worst part. Was knowing that the quiet meant the worst. Morgan Workman, church congregant. Sutherland Springs.

After a while, I could see she was shot and she wasn�t going to survive. � I kissed my fingers, and I touched my fingers to her skin. ... I cried out, �Mommy.� Andrea Wedner, synagogue congregant. Pittsburgh.

One of my cousins � the cops dragged him in the hallway when they were taking us out. I saw the bullet in his head. Jaydien Canizales, elementary school student. Uvalde.
Two 6- or 7-years-old girls followed by two older, taller boys came out the east exit and approached. One little girl was heavily blood spattered and dazed. � Her friend said that she was all right and �stuff got on her.� ... I told the two to hold hands and go. Paul Lukienchuk, state trooper. Newtown.

The kids, some are scared, some are quiet, some are crying, some don�t know what�s going on. Some thought it was a practice fire drill. But they were ready to see us. � We told them: �Single file. Get your kids. Let�s go. Let�s go. Let�s go.� Alexander Cuellar, Border Patrol agent. Uvalde.

They came, these three police officers with long guns. ... I was instructed to unlock the door and to raise my hands and we all came out at gunpoint and were evacuated. Marcus Kergosien, store manager. Allen.

As I exit the classroom, there�s two more bodies on the right-hand side in the hallway, a girl and a boy both face down. Danielle Gilbert, high school student. Parkland.

It was emergency vehicle sounds, and I couldn�t even look up. I looked at my feet, and the cold air in my chest, we had no coats and we were running toward the firehouse and it was � we didn�t know that it was over, so the trauma continued there. And then it�s just the worst scene you can imagine. You had chaos, and kids couldn�t find their siblings. Abbey Clements, teacher. Newtown.

I remember when we ran out and there was the police. � The look on his face, the terror on his face. He had people under his car. In his car. And I remember him just screaming: �Run for your loving lives. Do not stop.� ... I remember my mouth being bone dry and my lungs were burning and I was so physically uncomfortable and I was so thirsty and I couldn�t stop. I just kept running and running and running. Heather Brown Sallan, vendor. Las Vegas.

He threw me down on the ground and got on top of me. � I think that moment was him grabbing my face and saying, �This is happening, like there are actual bullets flying at us now.� ... I just remember that feeling, I swear it was the moment that photo was taken, when he opened my eyes to what was actually happening. Dani Westerman, concertgoer. Las Vegas.

PART 3
DEVASTATION

When the shooting ends, police, coroners and other first responders bear witness to the destruction. They check for signs of life, attempting to separate the barely living from the dead. They collect evidence, photograph the scene and remove the bodies. A once familiar place is now forever changed.

It was dim. The movie was still playing. The alarm was going off. � I could smell the gas. ... Then I began to notice the bodies. ... There was blood on seats, blood on the wall, blood on the emergency exit door. Pools of blood on the floor. Annette Brook, police officer. Century 16 movie theater, Aurora, Colo.

I walked in there, and you�re, like, slipping and sliding, trying not to slip because it was bad. And just the thing I won�t forget is the smell. Alexander Cuellar, Border Patrol agent. Uvalde.

There were shoes scattered, blood in the street, bodies in the street. Straight out of a nightmare. Dion Green, bar patron. Dayton.
It looked like a bomb went off in there. When you can tell the difference between, you know, when somebody is alive and somebody is dead, it�s because there were pieces of people just laying everywhere. And those were the dead ones. The ones that were alive were barely moving but were moving. Rusty Duncan, volunteer firefighter. Sutherland Springs.

We were standing there looking at the scene and the phones kept ringing and ringing and ringing in the backpacks and on the desk of the parents calling their children. ... They kept calling and calling and calling. Eulalio Diaz, justice of the peace and coroner. Uvalde.

As we were clearing the rooms, we came across a classroom which I thought at first was an art room because I saw a lot of red paint all over the walls and in the far left corner I thought I observed a pile of dirty laundry. � As I continued to stare at the room not being able to figure out what I was looking at, I realized that the red paint was actually blood and the pile of dirty laundry were actually dead bodies. Carlo Guerra, state trooper. Newtown.

As I stared in disbelief, I recognized the face of a little boy on top of a pile. ... I then began to realize that there were other children around the little boy and that this was actually a pile of dead children. � I tried to count the number of dead between rooms #10 and #8, but my mind would not count beyond the low teens and I kept getting confused. William Cario, police sergeant. Newtown.

You can only imagine that gun being pointed down and shooting as much as you can into a body, what it would do. It�ll make you unrecognizable in a heartbeat. So, yes, I believe it, because I saw it with my own eyes. Rusty Duncan, volunteer firefighter. Sutherland Springs.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:57

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

In theory, sure, but from what I've read, cognitive biases remain even when you're aware of them and trying to compensate for them.

I try to compensate by very carefully looking at things I want to be true, but I think what happens is at best I post fewer stupid noncredible stories, but my bias is slow to change.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:57

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Bodyholes posted:

I think it's real. If the election were held right now, Biden would lose hard. The problem is young minority voters peeling away. These people don't vote in midterms. They don't necessarily support Republicans, they see Trump as a protest vote that will get Democrats' attention (even though the last couple times it didn't).

I do think polls are overestimating conservative support some amount byt the directionality of the result is right. There's a year for that to change though.

Right but that poll says that ANY democratic candidate would lose if the election was held today. But Democrats continue to overperform in every single post-Dobbs election. Elections are real, polls are estimations, and those estimations aren't matching electoral outcomes and no one can figure out why. Before we squared that circle by saying, well, maybe it's just Biden has some unique problems and not the party, but this poll says the opposite.

zoux fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Nov 16, 2023

# ? Nov 16, 2023 19:57

VorpalBunny: May 1, 2009; Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

BonoMan posted:

Yeah. Man I just don't think I can do it. Seeing any of the young school pics (with young kids in school) would be too much I think.

We live about 6 blocks from my kids' school, they all go to the same elementary/middle school, and whenever I hear sirens in the area I panic for a moment that Something Has Happened at their school.

My kids talk (and sometimes cry) about their lockdown drills.

I don't need to see photos of kids turned into hamburger. I imagine it and worse everytime I panic about those sirens.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 20:23

Bodyholes: Jun 30, 2005

zoux posted:

Right but that poll says that ANY democratic candidate would lose if the election was held today. But Democrats continue to overperform in every single post-Dobbs election. Elections are real, polls are estimations, and those estimations aren't matching electoral outcomes and no one can figure out why. Before we squared that circle by saying, well, maybe it's just Biden has some unique problems and not the party, but this poll says the opposite.

Hey, I want to be wrong. I do think it's suspicious that Manchin polls the best. I expect that polls are catching us at a time when Republicans are already united behind their frontrunner before the primary has even happened, and Democrats are at their most divided--still mulling whether to replace Biden or not. I think the relative enthusiasm is captured in the polls but there should be a closening in several months when it becomes more clear that this is going to be a repeat of 2020 and the stakes are even higher than last time.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 20:35

Civilized Fishbot: Apr 3, 2011

VorpalBunny posted:

I don't need to see photos of kids turned into hamburger. I imagine it and worse everytime I panic about those sirens.

Completely empathize with this, not trying to argue with you, just for the sake of accuracy: there are no pictures of dead or wounded children in the article.

"The only photograph in this story showing bodies is one taken immediately after the 2017 shooting at the Route 91 Harvest festival in Las Vegas. We felt the scene captured in this photo � a field strewn with the dead and wounded beneath the Las Vegas skyline � illustrates why witnesses often liken AR-15 shootings to American war zones."

# ? Nov 16, 2023 20:38

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Gotta second this.

You can skip the pictures, but the article itself (which is just one part of a series) is almost equally brutal and important.

Foreward:

First article in the series:

jesus loving christ

# ? Nov 16, 2023 20:39

Aztec Galactus: Sep 12, 2002

The most depressing thing about that poll is that Harris and Manchin are among the best democratic contenders they could think of

# ? Nov 16, 2023 20:44

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

The FBI is digging up a section of New York believed to be a mass grave for bodies hidden by the Gambino crime family, who are apparently still active and being prosecuted.

Basically all of the greatest hits of stereotypical mafia crimes are surprisingly still going strong in 2023:

- Corrupt deals with union bosses to get mafia members no-show union construction jobs.

- A ton of guys with baseball bats showing up at your business and taking it over.

- A bunch of mafia members showing up to your auto repair shop to bust up all the cars you are working on because you tried to compete with the mob and wouldn't pay protection money.

- Murdering snitches and burying them in the woods in upstate New York.

- A guy named "Joey Brooklyn" beating someone nearly to death with a hammer.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1724974796268556630

quote:

FBI, police said to be searching for bodies in New York in Gambino crime family investigation

The FBI and police are searching and digging for bodies thought to be connected to an ongoing investigation into the Gambino crime family in Goshen, New York, multiple law enforcement officials familiar with the matter confirmed Wednesday afternoon.

The search � 65 miles northwest of midtown Manhattan � is linked to the arrests last week of 10 people accused of strong-arming their way into New York City garbage hauling and demolition businesses, two law enforcement officials said.

The indictment unsealed last week in federal court alleged that the 10 people used violent tactics, including intimidation with bats, to dominate the industries.

The group faces 16 counts in the indictment, including allegations of racketeering conspiracy, extortion, witness retaliation and union-related crimes, the U.S. attorney�s office said in a statement.

The group included Joseph Lanni, also known as �Joe Brooklyn� or �Mommino,� an alleged Gambino captain, as well as a number of other crime family members and associates who are accused of setting one another up with no-show jobs that brought perks such as pay and union benefits.

Four of those named in the suit were accused of wielding baseball bats as an intimidation tactic to get into the businesses, prosecutors said.

Others also allegedly �coordinated a violent hammer assault on the dispatcher� of a demolition company, which left the victim �bleeding and seriously injured,� according to the government.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 20:44

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

zoux posted:

Right but that poll says that ANY democratic candidate would lose if the election was held today. But Democrats continue to overperform in every single post-Dobbs election. Elections are real, polls are estimations, and those estimations aren't matching electoral outcomes and no one can figure out why. Before we squared that circle by saying, well, maybe it's just Biden has some unique problems and not the party, but this poll says the opposite.

I mean the polls for abortion and weed in Ohio a month before the election were 58.2% and 57.4% versus the election results of 56.6% and 57%; slightly wrong but not out to lunch.

Polls being inaccurate before a billion-dollar year-long electioneering campaign is not really a problem with the polls, its that the special election electioneering campaigns haven't been scaled up for the presidential elections yet.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 20:55

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

I actually think those polls are pretty brutal for Trump considering he�s run two Presidential campaigns already and most of the rest of them haven�t run any. You�d think that he�s already pretty much maxed out the reach and support he could get, while the others (besides Biden) haven�t.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:05

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

I actually think those polls are pretty brutal for Trump considering he�s run two Presidential campaigns already and most of the rest of them haven�t run any. You�d think that he�s already pretty much maxed out the reach and support he could get, while the others (besides Biden) haven�t.

I also think part of it is Trump isnt locked in yet so its all hypothetical. Abortion to an extent was the same way and is now kicking the GOP in the teeth as an issue. Trumps not gonna run on anything the normies want and sure as poo poo won't offer anything to anyone under 30. trump also hasnt been out in public outside little snippets of trial poo poo. sure he "truths" insane poo poo all day but the media outside online grognard doesn't cover it. soon its gonna be his face everywhere saying all the insane poo poo with none of the vague "moderate" poo poo from 2016.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Nov 16, 2023

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:09

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Despite all of the bad news about TikTok's content algorithm, it is apparently spreading some enlightening information to people as well.

quote:

An American woman said she was shocked to discover that Alaska isn't actually an island, calling for an 'overhaul' of the school curriculum

- A woman said she was shocked to discover that Alaska is not an island, and you can drive to it.
- While Canadians were left baffled, many Americans said they'd made the same mistake.
- Some people pointed out that Alaska is shown as an island on the US map, which causes confusion.

A woman said she was shocked to discover that Alaska is not an island and that it's possible to drive to it during a conversation with her Canadian boyfriend.

In the video posted on October 26, TikToker Sabriena Abrre asked people not to call her a "stupid American" as she admitted her mistake. "Everybody knows that Alaska is cold," she said. "But did I know that it was connected by land? No. I did not know that."

She also said that she hadn't realized how big Alaska was just by looking at a map and that she had thought that Texas was bigger than Alaska.

Alaska is the largest US state, bordering the Canadian territory of Yukon and the westernmost province British Columbia, which sits between the state and the rest of the US. As it is one of the US's noncontiguous states, along with Hawaii, it is often shown separately in a box at the bottom of maps of the US, which could lead some people to assume it's not part of the same land mass.

Abrre explained this was the reason for her confusion, saying, "The curriculum obviously needs some help. We need a good revision � an overhaul of the entire curriculum at this point."

So far, the video has been viewed over 819,000 times. Many viewers who said they were Canadian appeared baffled by Abrre's revelation. Other viewers who said they were American wrote that they had made the same mistake.

TikTok viewer Haley Hopkins commented that the video had just made her realize that Alaska is not an island. "I'm so embarrassed," she wrote.

Meanwhile, a viewer who said they are a teacher wrote that they had "heard this from adults many times" and that they always made sure to tell their students that Alaska is not an island.

There are many misconceptions about Alaska, Business Insider previously reported, partly due to its representation in pop culture, as TV shows such as "Ice Road Truckers" and "The Deadliest Catch" depict some of the most extreme jobs that people do in the state.

This may lead people to believe that Alaska is freezing cold and snowing all the time, with polar bears roaming the street. In fact, temperatures can reach up to 70 degrees Fahrenheit in summer, and while grizzly and black bears are relatively common in the state, polar bears can typically only be seen on the state's arctic coastlines.

https://www.insider.com/woman-shocked-to-discover-alaska-isnt-an-island-2023-11

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:13

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Do they not have globes anymore? I think that's a serious question I have no idea how much of what we used to have in classroom has been replaced with electronics.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:16

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Back in my day (2009) we at least had full world maps, showing Alaska�s true location alongside such interesting countries as the Soviet Union and Zaire

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:21

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Gerund posted:

I mean the polls for abortion and weed in Ohio a month before the election were 58.2% and 57.4% versus the election results of 56.6% and 57%; slightly wrong but not out to lunch.

Polls being inaccurate before a billion-dollar year-long electioneering campaign is not really a problem with the polls, its that the special election electioneering campaigns haven't been scaled up for the presidential elections yet.

https://twitter.com/lxeagle17/status/1725211591715799400
https://twitter.com/lxeagle17/status/1725212290570731840

poll nerd i used alot has spoken up on alot of this poo poo.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:22

Blue Footed Booby: Oct 4, 2006; got those happy feet

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Back in my day (2009) we at least had full world maps, showing Alaska’s true location alongside such interesting countries as the Soviet Union and Zaire

Yeah, this seems like a case of someone who's just not curious about geography, actively ignored as much of it as possible when in school, then never revisited the subject and never needed the information. Alaska's a pretty distinctive shape. Maybe there are school systems where you can get through the entire thing without seeing a single world map, but I'm suspicious this is a "lead a horse to water" situation.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:28

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

socialsecurity posted:

Do they not have globes anymore? I think that's a serious question I have no idea how much of what we used to have in classroom has been replaced with electronics.

I think with computers it's even easier than ever to show how the (disputed) Round Earth Theory claims that Alaska is part of the American continent, despite no one ever having been there or even flown over it. :thunk:

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:29

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Nenonen posted:

I think with computers it's even easier than ever to show how the (disputed) Round Earth Theory claims that Alaska is part of the American continent, despite no one ever having been there or even flown over it.

It is pretty wild that flat earth theory basically died out for several hundred years, but saw a resurgence after we invented satellites, planes, GPS, spaceships, and took actual pictures of Earth from space.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:33

Bodyholes: Jun 30, 2005

We're reaching the endgame of FPTP which is that not only does it incentivize compromising on your ideology to get a winning coalition but eventually it also rewards the side willing to compromise ethics, integrity, morality, reality, and anything else that they could hold their candidates to.

FPTP kills countries slowly and inevitably.

Republicans are straight up outnumbered nationally. They've had to lower their standards for a while now. But if they can just win one more, they can do away with this problematic "election" business before it matters.

Bodyholes fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Nov 16, 2023

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:36

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

Blue Footed Booby posted:

Yeah, this seems like a case of someone who's just not curious about geography, actively ignored as much of it as possible when in school, then never revisited the subject and never needed the information. Alaska's a pretty distinctive shape. Maybe there are school systems where you can get through the entire thing without seeing a single world map, but I'm suspicious this is a "lead a horse to water" situation.

Yeah it�s hard to understand sometimes but a lot of people just do not care about things that don�t immediately impact them. Where Alaska is doesn�t really matter to most people. My wife cannot name the Vice President, who is from our state. My kid�s teacher didn�t know West Virginia is it�s own state. I would wager 2/3 of the people in California don�t. At least the part I live in now.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:37

James Garfield: May 5, 2012; Am I a manipulative abuser in real life, or do I just roleplay one on the Internet for fun? You decide!

Bodyholes posted:

I think it's real. If the election were held right now, Biden would lose hard. The problem is young minority voters peeling away. These people don't vote in midterms. They don't necessarily support Republicans, they see Trump as a protest vote that will get Democrats' attention (even though the last couple times it didn't).

I do think polls are overestimating conservative support some amount byt the directionality of the result is right. There's a year for that to change though.

FYI the thing about young minority voters peeling away is from poll crosstabs (election results don't show Democrats losing like that) and the same poll crosstabs imply that Biden's low support with young minority voters is because they're more conservative. It's not people saying they'll protest vote, it's people saying they'll vote for Trump because Biden is too far left.

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:37

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# ? May 23, 2024 08:31

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

We should stop describing Alaska as "not part of the continental United States"

# ? Nov 16, 2023 21:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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