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We should all be rooting for them to say no because they're the first line of defense we all have against AI taking all of our jobs too.
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Nov 12, 2023 07:25
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Happy Landfill posted:She went over some of the specifics of the AI stipulations on Twitter and it is Not Great (awesome for her!)
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Nov 12, 2023 15:36
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Confusedslight posted:What percentage of sag members have to agree for the agreement to pass? In principle it should be 50% of those voting, but obviously it'd be hard to restart the strike if the vote fell just short and the agreement got 45% or something.
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Nov 12, 2023 16:27
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LividLiquid posted:We should all be rooting for them to say no because they're the first line of defense we all have against AI taking all of our jobs too. This. I have a feeling the union will be pressured into voting for it though. But the union has the chance to do the funniest thing right now.
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Nov 12, 2023 16:34
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fart blood posted:This. You know, I was going to just make a half-facetious post about how the funniest thing would be the studios getting hit with a massive EEOC suit for having their employment rates of racial/ethnic minority actors ~*~mysteriously~*~ plummet after AI replica acting takes off… but then that got me thinking. By the way the terms of the deal have been laid out by Justine Bateman, wouldn’t that mean that studios would retain the right for digital blackface and/or whitening without the actor’s knowledge/consent?
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Nov 12, 2023 17:13
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It's worse, since that might qualify as commentary, criticism, or satire nobody would need consent. If the KKK wanted to make a satirical video with your digital puppet, they don't need consent, you don't get compensation, and you can't tell them to stop.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:20
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It'll probably go even further, with studios claiming that they own the trademark on an actor's digital likeness, so it can't be used anywhere. And then extending that to that they outright own the actor's likeness, period. You got Charlize Theron in your film? Well, you can't use her likeness in posters, ads, etc, because we own her likeness.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:45
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Make your film qualify as parody, one crazy trick to avoid everyone's rights.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:54
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Khanstant posted:It's worse, since that might qualify as commentary, criticism, or satire nobody would need consent. If the KKK wanted to make a satirical video with your digital puppet, they don't need consent, you don't get compensation, and you can't tell them to stop. Right but they can already do that, legally. You can make a lifelike CGI Ronald Reagan and portray him in your documentary! And if you're an actor who is newsworthy enough to be criticised/parodied/satirised, people are really not going to need special scans to create a digital muppet of you. They're just going to be able to using existing footage. I think "it should be illegal to use this technology to create facsimiles of real people" is a reasonable position, but that's only coming through legislation and regulation. It's not coming from SAG-AFTRA putting a clause in their contract saying "specifically SAG-AFTRA members can't have digital recreations of themselves used for documentaries without their consent (but other people are fair game)".
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Nov 12, 2023 18:29
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Another take on the AI stuff, this time coming from a more positive direction. https://twitter.com/JasonWGeorge/status/1723791140925968473?s=20 I can kind of get where he's coming from, but as someone in the comments points out https://twitter.com/spragueg/status/1723800062839394673?s=20 edit:ah poo poo, did twitter embeds finally stop working 
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Nov 12, 2023 23:38
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stop making posts that are just twitter embeds and everything is fine again 
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Nov 12, 2023 23:42
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How dare you imply I need to put effort in to my posting
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Nov 12, 2023 23:52
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The twitter embeds in your post work for me.
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Nov 13, 2023 00:03
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This seems pretty big to me:quote:Producers have to pay you your negotiated day rate for as many days work as it would’ve taken you to do the scenework done by your digital replica—your replica isn’t cheaper I think this does two things: it makes a lot of possible use cases for digital replicas kinda pointless - if everybody is getting a full rate for use of their replica, it's probably actually easier to work with humans who can take more nuanced and detailed instruction during shooting. It also makes it easier (and cheaper!) for studios to do things like re-shoots. You can imagine something like having to reshoot a scene, but only bringing in the principal actors back on set and using digital replicas for background actors. The studio would have to pay the background actors as if they were actually there, but they don't have to spend time and money wrangling them and getting the same cast all in the same place as the same time which could be hard, worrying about continuity issues with costuming or the like on set. Maybe by making those kinds of re-shoots logistically easier, you might actually end up seeing more of them? I don't know how likely it is, but I can kinda squint and see a world where background actors are paid more money than they were before because cheaper re-shoots -> more re-shoots -> more working days. When I was speculating about this a few days ago, I was imagining a world where the fee for using digital replicas was a fraction of the minimum rate. I'm impressed that they got the full negotiated rate. Pinterest Mom posted:I think SAG-AFTRA sees this as a very big threat to acting as a profession. I'm speculating here, obviously nobody is putting out numbers and motivations in public, but I think one possible point of the minimums could be not just to ensure that someone is getting paid something for likeness rights, but to make the minimum fee so high that it might not be worth it for the studios to use the technology widely. Put in a set of rules regulating how much Peter Cushing's estate gets paid every time he's used, but don't make it affordable for studios to produce lost seasons of 8 Simple Rules starring a resurrected animatronic John Ritter. Those might be really high, like 0.75x the per-episode minimum for a real actor (or maybe even higher? idk).
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Nov 13, 2023 00:56
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it is a trillion times cheaper to get lookalike bg with lookalike costumes than to digitally insert them into a reshot scene. That's hundreds to thousands of vfx work hours vs 1-25 bg getting $20/hr. the endgame of the ai push from the studios is that they'll always have their favorite a-listers available to "work" as digital copies and it becomes much easier to bid their salaries down when they don't even have to show up to set
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Nov 13, 2023 04:41
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it's good to consider the rule of thumb for film budgeting: half above the line, half below. actors, directors, and producers take half the budget up front. Any extra money in the contract going to bg and dayplayers is pocket change. the provisions about paying bg to stay home while they add in a vfx replacement are about as likely to be used as ones applying to shooting on the moon but the amptp understands that bg are 90% of the voting base
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Nov 13, 2023 05:07
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Agreement summary released, with a separate AI explainer. AI bits are as broadly reported over the past few days, and look to me like the union broadly got what they wanted out of the studios: "we won't use a digital replica of a performer without specific approval for that project, and they'll be paid as much as if they were actually employed". (Specific approval might end up meaning a term like "we can use your digital replica for this movie and any sequels and spin-offs to it" would be kosher, I think? We'll have to see how that gets operationalised.) The steaming bonus looks a lot like what the writers got, and it still looks like the studios got what they wanted there. You get a fixed bonus if 20% of the domestic subscriber base watched your thing within 90 days, which I bet is going to be rare. It feels really weird that they negotiated something this specific when the studios have the data to be able to tell "how often does this happen", and the unions don't. theflyingexecutive posted:it's good to consider the rule of thumb for film budgeting: half above the line, half below. Yeah I figure it's something like "we've negotiated these numbers to be high enough that the provision will almost never be used", but hey, who knows, ten fifteen years down the line, maybe it'll make some kind of sense for some production workflows.
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Nov 13, 2023 22:16
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That streaming bonus is a joke and building in a 3 month attention span doesn't bode well. Already have a problem with shows getting to exist beyond a second season
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Nov 13, 2023 22:27
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It’s not ideal, but to be honest the watch count for the first three months is probably a really good predictor for lifetime watch count. There might be some methodological or technical complications to extending the window.
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Nov 13, 2023 22:38
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I'm glad the AI stuff appears to be good to my layman eyes, since that was a huge sticking point. "You have to get my permission and I get paid as if it were a real job" seems pretty reasonable. The streaming stuff sucks, but I try to watch the shows I'm interested in early, so I'll keep trying to DO MY PART! and now I'll feel like it's actually helping? I guess? But that feels more and more like movies where they have to succeed at the box office early or they're nothing (since physical media is dying). Cult classics and late successes are going to increasingly become a thing of the past.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:04
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thrawn527 posted:(since physical media is dying). Physical media isn't dying. Physical media is being strangled to death while we all (well, some of us. Well, me) scream from the sidelines begging somebody to stop the monster murdering poor physical media  
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Nov 14, 2023 04:47
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Jerusalem posted:Physical media isn't dying. There’s always criterion releases
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Nov 14, 2023 15:18
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Jerusalem posted:Physical media isn't dying. I didn't say it was of natural causes.
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Nov 14, 2023 15:19
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So I'm guessing the knives are out for David Zaslav big time at Warner Brothers Discovery now that the strikes are over given the number of hitpieces I've seen about him published in the last week from major news sources. That's usually the way suits like him get got, isn't it? Like how Bob Iger got slaughtered in the press before Disney fired him.
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Nov 17, 2023 07:55
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That would be nice to see, but I really want something done to prevent this kind of stupid grift. I don't know how else to frame it besides stealing from the taxpayers because of lovely management and planning. That's likely on top of taxpayer money subsidizing these productions in some way to begin with. The government really should not subsidize something only to also give a tax break when they decide not to release it.
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Nov 17, 2023 08:11
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Is the strike definitely over? I know there's a tentative deal but did they finish the voting and everything yet?
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Nov 17, 2023 08:14
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Khanstant posted:That would be nice to see, but I really want something done to prevent this kind of stupid grift. I don't know how else to frame it besides stealing from the taxpayers because of lovely management and planning. That's likely on top of taxpayer money subsidizing these productions in some way to begin with. The government really should not subsidize something only to also give a tax break when they decide not to release it. Coyote vs. ACME seems like it might have been a back-breaking straw when comes to Zaslav's tax write off schemes. It feels like it might be one too far, especially when you gently caress over someone like John Cena, a guy who's accrued some real major Hollywood good will over the last decade. When you get members of congress threatening to haul your rear end into hearings about just how hosed up your tax dodge schemes are, it makes members of board of directors start to glance nervously at one another.
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Nov 17, 2023 08:18
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Oh I had missed congress had noticed at all! That's something at least. Better than just cursing his name into the void.
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Nov 17, 2023 10:03
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Khanstant posted:Oh I had missed congress had noticed at all! That's something at least. Better than just cursing his name into the void. To be fair, it's just one congressman making noise, but it's still a bad look when you have "Congress Threatens to Investigate David Zaslav Over Tax Write-Off Schemes" headlines out in the general dipshit public like that.
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Nov 17, 2023 10:42
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nine-gear crow posted:So I'm guessing the knives are out for David Zaslav big time at Warner Brothers Discovery now that the strikes are over given the number of hitpieces I've seen about him published in the last week from major news sources. That's usually the way suits like him get got, isn't it? Like how Bob Iger got slaughtered in the press before Disney fired him. I think this is confirmation bias. I've seen the ones about him 'admitting the writers were right and deserved better ' just as prominently and that makes him sounds sympathetic if a bit condescending.
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Nov 17, 2023 11:51
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YggiDee posted:Is the strike definitely over? I know there's a tentative deal but did they finish the voting and everything yet? Voting on the deal goes through December 5. If it's approved, everything is over. If it's not, SAG-AFTRA and the AMPTP will have to go back to negotiating to find a deal, but that doesn't automatically restart the strike. The SAG-AFTRA board still has a strike authorisation in hand and they can call the strike on again, but they'd have to decide whether or not to do it based on the size of the rejection.
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Nov 17, 2023 14:02
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The amount of dopes on Reddit who think this Coyote movie is viral marketing makes my brain hurt.
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Nov 17, 2023 17:52
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fart blood posted:The amount of dopes on Reddit who think this Coyote movie is viral marketing makes my brain hurt. Wow, Reddit? Full of morons? That's unheard of! 
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Nov 17, 2023 18:04
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nine-gear crow posted:Coyote vs. ACME seems like it might have been a back-breaking straw when comes to Zaslav's tax write off schemes. It feels like it might be one too far, especially when you gently caress over someone like John Cena, a guy who's accrued some real major Hollywood good will over the last decade. When you get members of congress threatening to haul your rear end into hearings about just how hosed up your tax dodge schemes are, it makes members of board of directors start to glance nervously at one another. Well that, and the whole "unrelated directors and actors were pissed off and cancelled their meetings with WBD about future projects" thing.
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Nov 17, 2023 18:29
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fart blood posted:Well that, and the whole "unrelated directors and actors were pissed off and cancelled their meetings with WBD about future projects" thing. Yeah, I saw that too. Basically no one wants to work for WB anymore because they're all rightly worried Zaslav is going to Zaslav their work into a vault or a shredder for a tax kickback leaving them with nothing to show on their resumes, demo reels and portfolios, so why work for Warner at all at this point?
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Nov 17, 2023 18:35
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, I saw that too. Basically no one wants to work for WB anymore because they're all rightly worried Zaslav is going to Zaslav their work into a vault or a shredder for a tax kickback leaving them with nothing to show on their resumes, demo reels and portfolios, so why work for Warner at all at this point? I can't believe the guy in charge of the reality tv network doesn't know poo poo about premium cable and movie properties.
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Nov 17, 2023 18:42
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As it turns out, people don't want to make a movie for someone who will turn around and brag about the tax break they got by throwing it in the garbage. Who knew  "What do you mean there are consequences for my actions???   "
Happy Landfill fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Nov 17, 2023 |
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Nov 17, 2023 23:47
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Gaz-L posted:I think this is confirmation bias. I've seen the ones about him 'admitting the writers were right and deserved better ' just as prominently and that makes him sounds sympathetic if a bit condescending. Though at the same time that's basically him admitting he and the rest of the AMPTP wasted time and money trying to starve out the opposition instead of staying at the table.
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Nov 18, 2023 00:02
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Maxwell Lord posted:Though at the same time that's basically him admitting he and the rest of the AMPTP wasted time and money trying to starve out the opposition instead of staying at the table. I mean, that was obvious at the beginning of the WGA strike when they quite literally no-showed the table
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Nov 18, 2023 00:28
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, I saw that too. Basically no one wants to work for WB anymore because they're all rightly worried Zaslav is going to Zaslav their work into a vault or a shredder for a tax kickback leaving them with nothing to show on their resumes, demo reels and portfolios, so why work for Warner at all at this point? Frankly I'm amazed it took so long for this to kick in - I guess people figured the initial killing spree was a one-and-done so they were willing to give WB the benefit of the doubt?
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Nov 18, 2023 03:17
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