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Yeah I love Chuubo's but while I've had a good time with it and sort of got it I didn't feel truly comfortable with the system until I solved backwards from Glitch, which I grasped much more easily.
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Nov 16, 2023 21:55
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I haven't played Chuubo's at all but Glitch definitely helped retroactively make sense of Nobilis. I also don't find Glitch's characters hard to connect with, if anything the Excrucian Strategist as a concept is uncomfortably relatable. 
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Nov 16, 2023 21:58
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Ok, maybe not hard to relate to, but uncomfortable in an RPG, especially when every previous game saw them as unconditional villains.
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Nov 16, 2023 22:17
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Glitch kind of annoyed me because it revealed that the Nobilis 3E character I'd played years back would have fit much better as a Strategist instead.
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Nov 16, 2023 23:06
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One of my favorite bits of Chuubo's is the Quest and Issue systems, which essentially act like personal Clocks or progress timers to gauge how far you've gotten in completing your Quest or your Issue coming to its resolution. That, and the emote system, in case you wanna regress back to 2009 RP. 
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Nov 16, 2023 23:18
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Gonna be starting a L5R 4e campaign as a player in the Iron Rokugan alternate setting, should be fun. We all somehow managed to independently converge on being part of the worst clan, the Lion, before character creation even started, so there's at least a good excuse on why all the party knows each other.
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Nov 17, 2023 02:21
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hyphz posted:That’s impressive. Were you doing GMD? I think the campaign style of Chuubo’s confuses people. Glitch describes the mechanics much better but has characters even harder to connect with. Yup, GMD. Got probably about 12 or 13 more session to finish it out. It's been quite a ride.
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Nov 17, 2023 07:47
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Whybird posted:Probably the longest-running game I did was a weekly 4e campaign that lasted 3 years and took the party from L1-L5. I'm still pretty proud of the near-total reskinning of 4E I did for it, building pretty much every enemy the players faced was a ton of work but it paid off. Reflavoring powers and classes is a lot of fun, what setting did you turn it into? I once made a character for a 4e based mech game that sadly never took off. Frankly not something that's likely to ever happen again, since LANCER has cornered the "4e, but mecha" market entirely, but it was a lot of fun to turn the arcane into technobabbel.
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Nov 17, 2023 11:47
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Griddle of Love posted:Reflavoring powers and classes is a lot of fun, what setting did you turn it into? I once made a character for a 4e based mech game that sadly never took off. Frankly not something that's likely to ever happen again, since LANCER has cornered the "4e, but mecha" market entirely, but it was a lot of fun to turn the arcane into technobabbel. It was still a fantasy world, but post-imperialism and with turn-of-the-century tech, and set in the middle of a rebellion against an Empire that had exterminated almost all sentient nonhumans. So the different d&d races were mostly refluffed as backgrounds and were nurture rather than nature. So for example halflings were reskinned as members of the Stellazzos, a crime family who'd sided the rebels; Stellazzos weren't actually smaller but they were used to fighting in tight alleyways so they could count as Small if they wanted to. Instead of Dragonborn there were deserters from a penal batallion who'd been magically experimented on to allow them to shoot lightning from their eyes. I also made (almost) all magic and supernatural effects come from a single source - a mineral called Etherite. Different classes used etherite in different ways: Warlocks were mages who'd learned the theory of carving etherite crystals from studying the philosophy of a more powerful mage, clerics had figured out how to carve etherite for themselves, wizards reverse-engineeered the Empire's proprietary magitech devices, and Psions ground the stuff up into powder and snorted it and tried not to turn into an eldritch horror.
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Nov 17, 2023 13:23
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I ran a 4E game where one of the central starting points was that there were only two planes, the material and the aetherial, where all magic, divine and elemental energy flows from, and which is not a place one could travel to. It turned into a whole thing where you could have adventures in the aetherial via the use of certain psychedelic drugs, and where in the end it turned out sleeping and dreaming connected you to the aetherial, where you'd take on the identity of your dream self; dream selves otherwise existed separately from you and lived their own strange lives, and the climax of the campaign involved several dream selves crossing over and wreaking havok on the material.
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Nov 17, 2023 13:41
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Whirling posted:Gonna be starting a L5R 4e campaign as a player in the Iron Rokugan alternate setting, should be fun. We all somehow managed to independently converge on being part of the worst clan, the Lion, before character creation even started, so there's at least a good excuse on why all the party knows each other. Nice. Single clan games can be a lot of fun because nobody fights like family.
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Nov 17, 2023 18:06
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I like Lion, honestly. The Phoenix are Magic Samurai, the Cranes are Courtly Samurai, the Scorpions are Bullshit Samurai, the Lions are Samurai Samurai. They haven't always done a great job of making them interesting. My conceit when I play one is that Lions actually know how to run a feudal estate, instead of being like "How much rice did we produce? Who knows, I have people for that." Not-Japan needs a Wallenstein.
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Nov 17, 2023 18:36
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I blame 1E Way of the Lion, a book no one seemed to be invested in
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Nov 17, 2023 19:27
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The problem with the Lion is that they're supposed to be the warrior clan - the best at fighting, the best at war. Except that every other clan is also the best at some aspect of fighting, so the Lions are the best at fighting (so long as that fighting doesn't involve archery, cavalry, dueling, fortifications, deception, or magic use, all of which they are by definition second-rate at). "We are the clan that is the best at fighting (except for the 80% of fighting that other clans are better than us at)" is a pretty narrow and uninspiring patch of ground to base your RPG character around. I agree that the Lion should be the best at fighting as armies - they have the best generals, the best logistics, they're the best at putting organized forces in the field and using them to achieve operational and strategic objectives. But that's hard to translate down to the RPG level, especially when other clans get their own magic spell lists and kung fu manuevers and the like. FMguru fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Nov 17, 2023 |
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Nov 17, 2023 19:36
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Lambo Trillrissian posted:drat I did pretty much the same thing, ran 4e Dark Sun for a few years and frankensteined all the encounters together from spare parts. Lots of overworld desert survival that 4e (or D&D in general for that matter) is utterly inadequate for gamifying or supporting that I had to constantly improv but I found the Skill Challenges framework to actually be surprisingly good for that once I stapled on some BitD style clocks, in a very bare bones handwavey way. Yeah skill challenges work very well once you take a *world approach to them. Also the condition track is an excellent flexible mechanic.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:43
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Halloween Jack posted:I like Lion, honestly. The Phoenix are Magic Samurai, the Cranes are Courtly Samurai, the Scorpions are Bullshit Samurai, the Lions are Samurai Samurai. I like all the clans, but the Lion are pretty funny because the writers love to poo poo on them. I think I recall in the old continuity, the Akodo just straight up stopped existing for some reason.
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Nov 17, 2023 20:10
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FMguru posted:The problem with the Lion is that they're supposed to be the warrior clan - the best at fighting, the best at war. Except that every other clan is also the best at some aspect of fighting, so the Lions are the best at fighting (so long as that fighting doesn't involve archery, cavalry, dueling, fortifications, deception, or magic use, all of which they are by definition second-rate at). The way I like to think of it, Lion can be second-rate at a lot of things - but all the other clans that have advantages over the Lion are third-rate or worse at all of those things. Lion archers may not be as good as the Wasp's, but they're going to be better drilled than those of most other clans and there will be more of them. Their cavalry might not be as good as the Unicorn's, but again, they're just going to trample on other clans with their horse, and so on and so forth. Everyone else can smug as much as they want, but the Lion are still going to be a threat to them, and they can suffer more setbacks than others and still be ready for action next campaign season - which is why Crane and Scorpion have to be good at lobbying the courts every year, otherwise it's Kenson no Gakka again and again. And somehow, they're still better neighbors than the Crab 
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Nov 17, 2023 20:54
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"Second rate at everything" is a pretty compelling mechanical pitch. That's, like, the fantasy druid in a nutshell.
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Nov 17, 2023 21:18
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I can see lion feeling underwhelming when, theoretically, groups are coming to L5R for different things than standard fantasy and Lion offer "Do ya wanna fight good?" Their main "Fight Good" rivals in Crab and Unicorn at least have interesting pitches of "Unthanked veterans of the Shadowland hellwar" and "Barely tolerated foreigners who are basically Mongols."
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Nov 17, 2023 21:56
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sebmojo posted:Yeah skill challenges work very well once you take a *world approach to them. Also the condition track is an excellent flexible mechanic. A lot of people who defended 4e still threw skill challenges under the bus and I never really understood that attitude. Sure they're not amazing but they accomplished adding a bit more depth and texture to the sacred "roll a d20, pass/fail" paradigm that bores me to fucken tears so, that's nice?
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Nov 18, 2023 00:03
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FYI for the three goons who don't know, anybody who likes 4E skill challenges (or thinks they're "almost there") owes it to themselves to read the skill challenge rules in Star Wars Saga Edition - they're so, so much better. They're essentially the same, except the book is filled with great examples of how to turn a skill challenge into an adventure instead of merely a checklist.
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Nov 18, 2023 00:11
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In 4e at launch skill challenges were very silly as you had to do them in initiative order, and passing your turn recorded a failure. So it was actually desirable to leave party members behind before entering one. The errata removed that but replaced it with one person being able to do everything. Also there was always some excuse for Arcana working for everything and Intimidation never intimidating anyone.
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Nov 18, 2023 00:33
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Also the math was bolloxed at launch and also the d20 system is terrible for encouraging you to do anything other than roll the skill with the highest chance to succeed, so it degenerated into: "OK so you're chasing the guy and Sneaky Pete you're up." "I parkour my way across the rooftops. 24 acrobatics" "Cool cool, you're pretty close to him. Griknar?" "I roll 22 to athletics to shove my way through the crowd" "Nice, your mighty thews serve you well, you can see him struggling to make his way through the crowd. Magic Dave?" "I use arcane mumblings to roll arcana to scare everyone out of the way. 25." "OK that's three successes, with the space cleared by Dave Griknar and Pete easily cover the remaining distance. Good job everyone." "OK you're trying to convince the magistrate you didn't kill that guy. Sneaky Pete you're up." "25 thievery to steal everyone's stuff" "How does that help progress the plot?" "I'm looking for traps?" "No." "...OK 25 acrobatics then." "I'm going to need a social roll." "In that case I got 12." "...oh. OK. Griknar you're up." "Athletics. 28" "...what are..." "Can I endurance at them?"* "Uh..." "Then I'll just sit this one out." "Dave do you..." "Arcana arcane mutterings" "So you're all at a fancy party and..." "Griknar punches a guy to get it over with." "Oh thank christ. Roll for initiative" "Is it Dave's go yet? Arcana arcane mutterings" Skill challenges good, d20 + big 6 ruins everything as always. *OK obviously there was an opportunity to filibuster here but you get the idea, it encourages big number first justification later. Splicer fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Nov 18, 2023 |
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Nov 18, 2023 01:12
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Measured against roleplaying games as a whole, 4e skill challenges were a flawed half baked mess. Measured against Dungeons and Dragons, they were the best skill system we've ever had 
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Nov 18, 2023 01:50
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Traveller posted:The way I like to think of it, Lion can be second-rate at a lot of things - but all the other clans that have advantages over the Lion are third-rate or worse at all of those things. Lion archers may not be as good as the Wasp's, but they're going to be better drilled than those of most other clans and there will be more of them. Their cavalry might not be as good as the Unicorn's, but again, they're just going to trample on other clans with their horse, and so on and so forth. Everyone else can smug as much as they want, but the Lion are still going to be a threat to them, and they can suffer more setbacks than others and still be ready for action next campaign season - which is why Crane and Scorpion have to be good at lobbying the courts every year, otherwise it's Kenson no Gakka again and again. 'Being decent at everything if not the best at anything' is pretty much the dream of a lot of real life armies and organisations. It's also a perfectly good faction archetype in that it can support almost any character concept- even and maybe especially a specialist, since if the Lion value a wide variety of skills equally, then a Lion character concept can have nearly any combination of specialties. (Or maybe stands out for not being broadly competent enough for them) It also could make them good rivals and antagonists for the same reason, since they're expected to be at least a reasonable threat against any means you use against them, with no obvious weaknesses at first glance. In general, having more 'generic' options, like humans often are in PC species selection, isn't a bad thing at all. Can be tricky to balance, but it means you have an option that serves character concepts that don't quite fit any of the more sharply defined options, and/or who don't want to be defined by a particular stereotype, whether embracing or subverting it.
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Nov 18, 2023 04:47
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Lambo Trillrissian posted:A lot of people who defended 4e still threw skill challenges under the bus and I never really understood that attitude. Sure they're not amazing but they accomplished adding a bit more depth and texture to the sacred "roll a d20, pass/fail" paradigm that bores me to fucken tears so, that's nice? The problem is that 95% of the time the start and end of the PC decision space in the skill challenge is "what skill do I roll" and the other 5% is bonus wizard utility powers letting them use arcana. Even something simple like "you can use any skill to roll a support action, easy to +5 someone's roll or refresh a one-time roll action, medium to clear a failure up to COMPLEXITY times, failing a support roll doesn't hurt the challenge but every two support rolls counts as one failure" would at least introduce a decision to make.
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Nov 18, 2023 06:51
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CitizenKeen posted:skill challenge rules in Star Wars Saga Edition - they're so, so much better. Is there anything that's system unique or is it just a better written version of Skill Challenges that could have been written for 4e?
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Nov 18, 2023 07:29
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Lambo Trillrissian posted:Measured against roleplaying games as a whole, 4e skill challenges were a flawed half baked mess. Measured against Dungeons and Dragons, they were the best skill system we've ever had Skill challenges are a good attempt at making a generic system that actually adds some mechanics to all the loose non-dungeon stuff people always want to do in D&D games, but the mechanics weren't great and 4e's presentation was dry enough that they created a false dichotomy between using skill challenges and doing the fun "gently caress around and roll while RPing" stuff that D&D always defaults to. It's just a shame they pretty much abandoned the whole concept halfway through 4e, because D&D really needs something to give non-dungeoneering scenes some mechanical weight. (I mean, look at Pathfinder 2e. Their subsystems aren't good enough to be the focus of an adventure, but they're enough to let you do things during an adventure and have it feel like you're doing something.)
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Nov 18, 2023 15:54
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Lurks With Wolves posted:Skill challenges are a good attempt at making a generic system that actually adds some mechanics to all the loose non-dungeon stuff people always want to do in D&D games, but the mechanics weren't great and 4e's presentation was dry enough that they created a false dichotomy between using skill challenges and doing the fun "gently caress around and roll while RPing" stuff that D&D always defaults to. It's just a shame they pretty much abandoned the whole concept halfway through 4e, because D&D really needs something to give non-dungeoneering scenes some mechanical weight. Also ability scores ruin everything but that's the free space on the D&D bingo card.
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Nov 18, 2023 19:09
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Agreed on all fronts!!!
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Nov 18, 2023 19:31
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Though it should be said, Skill Challenges predate Clocks so it's not the 5E classic of "Pick a solved problem and do a worse version". If they'd taken what they'd learned about bad solos and applied it to non-combat encounters they would have ironically ended up with something that felt much more natural. e: The best example I can think of is an encounter where we needed to repair an airship. It was just a big lump of required successes so we just kept hitting it with our high skills until we knocked out all the "Encounter HP". If instead the GM had been advised to pick the three "monsters" the players must "defeat" to repair the ship then it would have been very intuitive to go "OK guys, the engine is busted, you've no idea what's below decks, and oh yeah, you need to work out how to fly this thing", which also makes it much easier for the players to come up with ideas that might help rather than just defaulting to your good numbers. It's also very intuitive for, say, extra engine successes to bleed into the "how do we fly this thing" task. Splicer fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Nov 18, 2023 |
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Nov 18, 2023 19:52
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Reading some more about the history of the hobby and I stumbled on this article which is the only mention I can find of this sort of LARP fantasy setting, Atzor. https://www.hplhs.org/pdf/PeltonLifeSpread.pdf Contains a 'fun surprise' in the final caption.
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Nov 20, 2023 22:44
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I've also read Mein Kampf but it's not the one book that I like to remind everybody I've read. Oddly enough, Pelton might have been the first person to create an ersatz Necronomicon. He apparently got some Lovecraft pastiche published in a Chaosium anthology. I'll see if I can find it. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 22:58
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Hey everyone, just a reminder: it's the last week to sign up for the main round of trad games secret santa!
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Nov 21, 2023 00:34
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My GM is about to start a Numenera game. This is cool, I'm interested in the setting, but the system seems pretty mixed. In particular I really hate the use of XP as a narrative currency/reroll currency. I am having trouble making a persuasive argument that this is terrible, even though it seems screamingly obvious to me that it is. Help me convince my GM not to do this, please.
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Nov 21, 2023 16:59
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Cool Dad posted:My GM is about to start a Numenera game. This is cool, I'm interested in the setting, but the system seems pretty mixed. In particular I really hate the use of XP as a narrative currency/reroll currency. I am having trouble making a persuasive argument that this is terrible, even though it seems screamingly obvious to me that it is. Help me convince my GM not to do this, please. It will be serviceable but any small parts that impress you will be overshadowed by "xp as bennies" and "hp to power magic" type poo poo.
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Nov 21, 2023 17:18
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dwarf74 posted:The entire system kinda sucks rear end, yeah. Agreed. The setting is neat but mechanically it ranges from aggressively bland to migraine-inducingly bad Better to find a good system that's either setting agnostic or that will handle "fantasy except we flavoured magic as tech that we don't understand" and just bring in the fun mega list of weird techno doodads from Numenera
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Nov 21, 2023 17:29
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Has anybody here GMed the Avatar Legends rpg game? I got a few friends from my main D&D group to agree to start up Avatar and what's interesting so far is that the book doesn't have any pre-made campaigns or scenarios, only the bones needed for you to make your own "episode", and that building a campaign is predicated on player input. We're starting with the Kyoshi era and I'm kinda hoping to find somebody on Youtube playing through their own episodes so I can steal some ideas but can't find anything and am curious if folks here have done it.
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Nov 21, 2023 17:40
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Cool Dad posted:My GM is about to start a Numenera game. This is cool, I'm interested in the setting, but the system seems pretty mixed. In particular I really hate the use of XP as a narrative currency/reroll currency. I am having trouble making a persuasive argument that this is terrible, even though it seems screamingly obvious to me that it is. Help me convince my GM not to do this, please. My impressions of the mechanics were someone looked at DnD and thought, why do wizards only get to do awesome stuff with limited charges? Now everyone can do awesome stuff with limited charges! You ran out of charges? Well.. hm. There's also something to be said about having rails on creativity. The cyphers are cool and setting is cool, but coming up with something that is both creative, useful, and interesting can be a pain the butt, since you're expected to do a ton of it all the time.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:19
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I played the d20 Numenera and it was awful. It had the same task DC scaling as 3.5, but instead of adding modifiers from skills you had a pool of points to spend on each ability score. But the pools gave such a tiny bonus that it never made any difference. The only player who could accomplish anything was the "Nano" (Wizard) because he had abilities that just worked without rolling.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:26
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