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Ohtori Akio posted:"chu-chu, are you always left alone when she goes to visit her brother like this?" <- chu-chu is also a fragment of anthy's personality imo i remember speculating that chu chu represents anthy's real feelings like a million years ago (sometime around when touga wins anthy and there's a bunch of scenes where she's silent and smiling while chu chu is miserable and won't eat anything) and i think that reading ended up being mostly correct. anthy is trapped, and chu chu is unrestrained and able to emote for her. a lot of the time it's just chu chu doing something impulsive or weird or dying (in my head at least the authentic or true version of anthy is a bit of a morbid weirdo), but i think the most telling scenes are the ones directly related to the quote you brought up: chu chu always chooses to stay with utena when anthy is off with akio. the opening scene in 37 where utena asks akio on a date and anthy interrupts them to argue with chu chu about some very metaphorical toast is also a pretty funny and gross example of this. 
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Nov 20, 2023 16:14
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I don't know what it means that Chuchu wears a tiny little necktie in the same colour as Akio's shirt, and the same little gold earring Akio wears. I can't trust that little critter.
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Nov 20, 2023 16:39
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It's the school necktie, so just who he's mirroring is up to you.
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Nov 20, 2023 17:01
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The best Chu-Chu scene is when they're taking a photo and Akio tries to get handsy with Utena, only for "Chu-Chu" to misbehave prompting Anthy to have to get him and then conspicuously stand in between Akio and Utena when she gets back. I love the subtle passive-aggression from Anthy. That ending sure is something huh? Most people never expect the finale to have so many twists baked in. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 17:15
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37 is an episode of endless cycles, and reiterations. we see it in the spaces surrounding the characters (endless buildings, endless stars)  we see it in the visual metaphors of the week (the repetitive motions of basketball and badminton)  we see it in the sound design (lots of normal musical motifs have been replaced by basketball dribbling, or repeated engine revving, or anthy's agonized breathing)  by the time we get to the tea and cookie scene the viewer is completely trapped. the music skips and restarts endlessly. we're stuck watching the same panning shot over and over.  at it's heart, utena is a show defined by repetition; the repeated cycle of abuse and trauma is built directly into the structure of the show. you see it as each arc preserves the same dueling order. you see it in the heavy usage of stock footage. you see it in the 3 separate clipshow episodes. 37 might not be as blatant as a clip show, but i think it is the apex of this design and perfectly represents the danger for utena as she prepares to enter the lair of the beast.
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Nov 20, 2023 17:42
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luckily, 37 is also an episode built around the premise of spoiling the last two episodes of revolutionary girl utena i think half the episode is about characters preparing for life without utena/telling her to run away, and the other half is akio telling the main character that he uses his projector to do hosed up stuff. https://i.imgur.com/psWBFCX.mp4 going back to the cookie and tea scene, what shot eventually breaks the cycle? this one: 
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Nov 20, 2023 17:43
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Episode 36! This is a little late because I forgot I had plans yesterday We open (after the pre-title card bit that's just footage from last episode) back during Akio and Utena riding together. Akio continues to be gross and I don't really want to talk about it. He's continuing to groom her, making a bunch of euphemisms about the white horse he's riding with her on. Juri and Miki are much more welcome, though Juri is just talking about how Utena has become "more of a girl" in what's clearly them both trying to find the language to describe the ways Utena is changing as she's being groomed. It's not perfect, but Miki gets what she means. Juri also says "everything's changing" and that the revolution is approaching. What's that mean? Find out Touga and Saionji are trying to imitate the Akio car scenes, but instead of being cool and kind of menacing their jazz is goofy, and instead of a sports car they have a motorcycle and side car. This scene is obviously Touga trying to copy Akio but that just fundamentally isn't possible. The whole thing (Saionji's comments about not being in control especially) is them having an awkward time with Touga topping and it not living up to expectations, but they still do find a genuine connection there. When Saionji tries to finish by standing and t-posing to punctuate the conversation (in clear reference to Akio sliding onto the hood at the end of those scenes) Touga points out that that's dangerous and he should probably get back in his seat. I really like this scene, I think it's really good at making it clear exactly the kinds of insecurities around masculinity that drive these boys. Utena is in bed, taking care of Chuchu while wondering if he's left all alone every time Anthy "goes to visit her brother". This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say Utena is slowly starting to figure out that something is up. She has a history of hiding her concern for Anthy behind concern for Chuchu (see back in episode 2 where she claims she only beat Saionji to keep Chuchu safe) so she is definitely starting to get worried for Anthy here. Touga comes and takes her to the dueling arena to discuss End of the World. The vibes are very different there at night. Utena comments on how beautiful the stars are, before the castle in the sky comes into view. It wasn't there from the start. I think this is super interesting considering how stars keep being so closely associated with truth/lies, but we only see fake ones. Interesting to have the castle come in and hide the stars, this symbol of fairy tale magic that's so closely tied to princehood coming in and hiding the truth (since I'm getting to this late we know that nothing in Ohtori academy or related to the duels is actually the truth, but I think that the broader stuff here stands). When Touga tries flirting she just tells him to get to the point, which is very charming, until he asks her if she's in love with Akio. She keeps trying to deflect, find reasons to not be, bringing up Kanae again. I'll be honest, I don't think Akio really counts as engaged anymore with what happened to her. Because Touga takes that as a yes he decides he can't tell her who End of the World is. He continues to express how much he likes her, and Utena is way too nice to him here and lets him sit with her for a while. Utena is remembering the time she thought Touga might be her prince and smiles, looking at Anthy sleeping. In Touga and Saionji's student council discussion, there are 8 roses and every time they make a dramatic declaration one of them gets shot. They also keep switching between all the standard colors for roses, ending on orange (Juri, unrequited love) and then white (a blank slate, purity). Then they go to harass Utena and Anthy, in case you were getting a little sympathetic and needed a reminder that they suck big time regardless of what drives them. The scene closes with them all in silhouette, making it kind of flow into the shadow play in a really cool way. The shadow play this time is a princess meeting the prince of the white horse and mistaking the horse for the prince. It's clearly referencing Akio with the white horse, but I think it's also just in general about the ways characters in this show mix up what they think they want (or what society says they want) with what they actually want. Utena forgetting why she wanted to become a prince and it becoming just a general desire. Nanami's desire for unconditional love and human connection and fear of ostracization becoming Nanami's whole deal. Basically everyone in the show Utena doesn't really know what's going on in the grand scheme of things, but she still knows she doesn't like what's being done to Anthy. This duel is incredible. The song rules (ALLEGORY! ALLEGORIER! ALLEGORIEST!) Touga views this duel like Utena viewed the Wakaba duel (the way he grabs her hand in the middle of the fight parallels that fight, and he thinks he has to protect her from being manipulated by Akio) the cars starting to all drive around is incredible and when Anthy helps catch Utena and they start cutting the cars in half it's maybe the coolest thing I've ever seen. All the cars flying off the side leading into Touga and Saionji driving at Utena to finish it off! And then Utena tells Anthy "Let's go, Akio's waiting," and there is pain in the world once again. Everyone in this show that knows things has a really bad habit of not telling Utena anything. She's dumb as poo poo, but it's not all her fault! Utena and Anthy are in bed, Utena says now no one is after Anthy but I don't think her hearts really in it. She knows there's more going on, even if she hasn't yet figured out exactly what. Utena whispering Akio's name in her sleep is the same as being stabbed with one million swords to Anthy, who leaves. Utena walks out and (in a very similar way to Nanami) sees what's been going on just outside her door this whole time. The last time I watched Utena I was watching with some friends, and I made us watch every next time on in the show just so that we couldn't possibly miss this one. The fear that Utena will have the same reaction as Nanami, "Miss Utena, don't you know? How much I've always despised you?" Good stuff.
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Nov 20, 2023 18:04
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great writeups as always chrome linechrome line posted:Touga and Saionji are trying to imitate the Akio car scenes, but instead of being cool and kind of menacing their jazz is goofy, and instead of a sports car they have a motorcycle and side car. This scene is obviously Touga trying to copy Akio but that just fundamentally isn't possible. The whole thing (Saionji's comments about not being in control especially) is them having an awkward time with Touga topping and it not living up to expectations, but they still do find a genuine connection there. When Saionji tries to finish by standing and t-posing to punctuate the conversation (in clear reference to Akio sliding onto the hood at the end of those scenes) Touga points out that that's dangerous and he should probably get back in his seat. I really like this scene, I think it's really good at making it clear exactly the kinds of insecurities around masculinity that drive these boys. they have such insane loser energy this episode and i'm upset at how much sympathy i feel for them now. saionji choosing to return to eternal trauma academy is certainly more interesting with the added context of the finale and utena's triumphant exit. maybe he's a real prince and princess, someone willing to give up their freedom and return into the depths of hell to try and open the coffin for his friend touga. maybe it's just really hard to truly escape the cycle of violence.
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Nov 20, 2023 19:02
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So, fun story: first time I watched the three ep finale, I did it with friends on a voice call, and one immediately asked me what I thought. All I could do was sputter out “it was f-fine” while clearly audibly crying.
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Nov 20, 2023 23:42
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I mentioned I was rewatching this bit for the thread and my partner mentioned that the only times she'd seen me crying harder than I did when we watched the Utena finale together were when I was in the hospital. And that was a rewatch! Anyways, these 3 episodes are incredible. The cantarella scene, badminton, the entire duel, all the stuff about how Akio controls everything, Anthy stabbing Utena in the back, Utena punching the ground and getting back up to finally truly reach out to Anthy, Anthy walking out and the reveal of the picture mentioned by Nephthys where Akio's there but the focus is the two of them together, holding hands. "Someday, together..." "Someday, together?" title card "And Someday, Together, We'll Shine" I'm tearing up just thinking about it. Before I get into any details about anything, here's the playlist I mentioned a while back covering the big changes made during the dvd remaster that carried over into the blu-ray and streaming versions. The only one I already mentioned was way back in episode 6, where Nanami gets hit in the face and the sound effect was changed. The other changes are the sound of the ringing bells during duels, the sound of Akio's car, a line of dialogue in Wakaba's duel, and (afaik the only animation change) Anthy being stabbed by the swords of hatred was censored a little for broadcast (which makes sense given this was running next to Pokemon*) so the original animation was restored. Worth checking out, the sound effects really change the tone of things despite being minor changes! *the finale aired a week after the porygon episode, which is a bit of a bummer. it gives me a headache, so I know my more light sensitive friends can't watch huge chunks of it chrome line fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 03:25
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Hey, these three final episodes are too important that spoiler mark them for who's never watched the series before and is catching up now should be a consideration for at least a few more days.
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Nov 21, 2023 15:46
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Alright, I think it's been long enough to start getting into episode 37! (Actually I was just busy until now) Much like Nanami, Utena opens the episode after she walks in on Anthy and Akio looking out on the city. She rejects her ring, feeling she's no longer noble enough to deserve it. I don't know exactly what's going through her mind, but I think it's mostly her feelings around not having noticed what was happening around her before. Incredibly awkward conversation where Utena tries to talk around the things she saw and ask Akio on a date before being interrupted by Anthy saying "This isn't mine, it's yours, isn't it?" to Chuchu. Cold. No music, wide shots with a bunch of empty space, this whole thing feels awful to watch. Anthy continues to be more passive aggressive than ever before. After that it's a massive relief to be in the student council meeting, where at least there's music, and rituals we're familiar with. After their motorcycle went over the ledge in their disastrous last attempt at riding it, Touga and Saionji are trying to recreate their childhood dynamic on a bike like the one they rode to see Utena in her coffin. But no matter how hard Touga struggles, Saionji isn't pitching in. He's disconnected from the broader plot of the show now, has no more interest in what Utena is up to. You can't just go back to the past. Also they discuss Utena, how she got a letter from End of the World (and is taking an angst shower like she's Juri or something) and whether she knows what Akio is. After Akio and Utena's date (which I don't really have anything to say about), Utena and Anthy have a heart to heart in their bedroom. Utena feigns ignorance (or possibly is somehow actually ignorant) of why she might be upset. Akio's comment about her being "girlish" is clearly eating away at her, because it's just how she's being victimized. "In the end, all girls are like the Rose Bride." Anthy reaches out and holds Utena's hand. Despite all her complicated feelings she still feels solidarity with Utena in this moment, and lets Utena know that she can have what she thought she wanted if she follows the letter. Touga and Saionji and Akio are having another photoshoot with the camera that takes off your clothes and chat about whether Utena will choose her prince or Akio. She's playing basketball as she remembers talking to Anthy. When Anthy says she wishes things didn't have to change Utena rips the letter to shreds. I think Utena is scared to make a decision, doesn't understand what's going on around her but knows she wants to stay with Anthy. This badminton scene is really good, they're friends! Juri admits to her failings, and confronts Utena on her feelings towards Anthy. Utena's little bit about "I purely.... Not that your feelings are impure!!! But..." is such a true to life thing. Being completely unable to put your feelings into words, knowing they're similar to the queer people you know but still not feeling like they're quite the same. And then Nanami comes in and makes the scene even better! She's left the student council, staying as far away as she can from this whole business. And yet she comes in to try and help out Utena, trying several times to get through to Utena. Juri and Miki jokingly(?) confess to Utena as Kozue and Shiori watch on. They're taking steps to work through their own poo poo, making progress, and helping Utena. It's really sweet! The shadow play girls are breaking up! One of them (who I think represents Utena) is leaving to become an actor, submerging herself in falsehood and getting into scandalous situations. She only wants a taste though, she doesn't want it to consume her. They reconcile, kissing and declaring themselves true friends, as the other promises not to laugh at her. The third walks in, declares herself the judge and calls herself daddy. Only one girl can be chosen. This seems fairly clear cut as about Utena wanting the glamorous relationship with Akio but not wanting it to ruin her life, and being terrified that it will go poorly (not seeing that the whole thing was busted from the start). Anthy won't judge her for being manipulated, she has other things to be mad at Utena over. Like not remembering her promise to save her. Akio continues to be the biggest piece of poo poo, saying it's not his fault Anthy's in pain as they drive, it's the world. The world isn't the one currently sexually assaulting her! We see the swords, so we're reminded that she is in fact in pain because of the world, but that doesn't mean Akio isn't at fault as well! Utena and Anthy discuss the future over tea and cookies. Perhaps Anthy will become a florist! Did you know the Borgia family used cantarella poison? How do the cookies taste? After a brief pause Utena continues eating the cookie, trusting Anthy and cutting through the subtext with the subtlety of a bull in a china shop by saying "I put poison in your tea." The very quiet music starts skipping at this point, with a large red rose spinning away. This time red clearly means danger, stop, go away. They agree the other's poisons are delicious and agree they should still be together in 10 years, drinking tea like they do now. The video is skipping as well. Utena promises they'll be together having a good time in 10 years, trying to will it into existence. They hold hands and Anthy agrees. They know they've been harming each other and will harm each other but will do their bests to continue regardless. I love this scene so much. Anthy tries to kill herself. Utena catches her off the top of the tower. We get more details on this later, but for now there's a very jarring transition into this scene, and Utena demanding they have tea together in 10 years is amazing. Anthy is pretty clearly trying to end things on her own terms, trying to protect Utena from Akio. Utena has agreed to go see End of the World. Touga calls her a fool when he realizes she's doing it for Anthy, but Utena is a fool. Everyone knows it. She's admitted it herself. She meets up with Anthy, and they're off to the final confrontation. In the next time on Utena tells Anthy "You have nothing to be sorry for," and after admitting she hates Utena in the last one Anthy is sounding genuinely a little panicked that Utena doesn't know the whole truth yet. This whole episode makes me feel insane I have so much going through my head but I can't manage to put it into words. It just really makes me emotional, but luckily not as much as the next 2 episodes will.
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Nov 23, 2023 11:14
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Nov 23, 2023 11:43
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chrome line posted:Akio continues to be the biggest piece of poo poo, saying it's not his fault Anthy's in pain as they drive, it's the world. The world isn't the one currently sexually assaulting her! We see the swords, so we're reminded that she is in fact in pain because of the world, but that doesn't mean Akio isn't at fault as well! As much as I loath Akio, and oh how I do, and generally just never want to think about him at all it does occur to me that the reason he resents Anthy so much and is so hostile towards her when they're alone is that from his perspective (finale)he was someone who had real power which was stripped from him by Anthy, who has all of the "real" (ie magical) power in the relationship. He maintains control of their relationship in a sense because she allows him to. She could crush him in an instant if she wanted to and if she decides to sever the emotional bond that he's exploiting then he just becomes a sad, pathetic afterthought to her. I suspect he's probably terrified of this and why he freaks out whenever he see's her happy with Utena. chrome line posted:Utena and Anthy discuss the future over tea and cookies. Perhaps Anthy will become a florist! Did you know the Borgia family used cantarella poison? How do the cookies taste? After a brief pause Utena continues eating the cookie, trusting Anthy and cutting through the subtext with the subtlety of a bull in a china shop by saying "I put poison in your tea." The very quiet music starts skipping at this point, with a large red rose spinning away. This time red clearly means danger, stop, go away. They agree the other's poisons are delicious and agree they should still be together in 10 years, drinking tea like they do now. The video is skipping as well. Utena promises they'll be together having a good time in 10 years, trying to will it into existence. They hold hands and Anthy agrees. They know they've been harming each other and will harm each other but will do their bests to continue regardless. I love this scene so much. This scene is often discussed in how to interpret the section where they say they will meet again in 10 years and then the scene continues but neither of them in the room anymore even though they keep talking. Personally I think it's an ironic hint that neither of them are actually there because Ohtori Academy isn't a real place and Anthy is still in her coffin but I'd be interested if someone else has a more thematic or different explanation.
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Nov 23, 2023 12:25
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It's taken a while to start watching these last 2 episodes because they will wreck me. I'm going to keep this brief so I can watch them together in one sitting and keep my thoughts in one post. Also I reread the last one and realized there was a lot of me just recapping what happened without talking about it, which bums me out so I'll try and avoid that! Utena and Anthy holding hands at the end of ZUM already has me tearing up. The massive shadow of the prince hanging over Akio's head is a really unsubtle visual, but this show has no time for subtlety anymore. Despite everything Akio is her prince. Or is he? I didn't get into it at the time, but my theory about the prince who visited Utena as a child is that he was actually Anthy, or something she manifested. Anthy's cry for help brought Utena to her, and that's what inspired her. Regardless of whether he actually saved Utena or not, Akio is going to continue to use that to try and manipulate her. While Akio is doing that, talking about how he and Utena will live happily ever after in a castle in the sky, Anthy's eyes roll back and she collapses and disappears. She's in the same dress she was in in the flashback to the mob, bringing her back to where her trauma started. Akio completes the process he started so long ago, forcing Utena into the position of the rose bride, taking the sword away from her and saying it's not for girls to use, and taking all agency from her in the process. And Utena (though she clearly doesn't like it) could live with that. She'd accept her societal role, the coffin she's been forced into. But there's no room for Anthy there. She'll be the sin eater forever suffering so they can be happy. And Utena won't accept that. Here's where I start crying and basically don't stop until about an hour after the show's done. Anthy trying to kill herself is a continuation of the cantarella scene. Anthy will accept Utena's hatred, accept any harm that comes to herself, even try to kill herself to try and keep Utena from walking into the lion's den. They're very alike in this sense. Anthy was suffering silently, convinced there was nothing else for her and telling herself that was okay. They apologize to each other, Anthy for leading Utena into Akio's abuse (she protested in the ways she felt able to but was still complicit) and Utena for not seeing what was actually going on and just using Anthy to feel more like a prince at the start and blaming Anthy for her own abuse despite having said she'd help Anthy. Given everything, I think Anthy's confession was an attempt to further drive Utena away to keep her safe, and though she's much more perceptive than in the past Utena just bowls right through it to make her own apology. Realizing this, she just flat out tells Utena to leave but Utena won't leave Anthy behind. In the present, after that scene lets us into Utena's decision making process, she takes the sword, takes agency back and declares that she will protect Anthy. After saying "You've kept your nobility" earlier in the episode Akio is now claiming she lost it. Not that I needed more confirmation that he just says whatever he thinks might help him manipulate people (especially after he admitted to not caring about stars last episode) but it still makes me hate him even more. Akio reveals everything in the show has been an illusion, but not really. This isn't really surprising, and is just bringing into text the constant ways people strive after things that they can't have because they aren't real. Saionji seeking something eternal when there's no such thing (not even the suffering that made Utena believe as a child), Miki trying to bring back his childhood memories, Juri loving someone who's so deep in the closet she'll probably never make it out (and who herself is trying to hurt Juri in ways that won't work because she misunderstands Juri on a fundamental level), Nanami after her brother's unconditional love, Touga after the masculine ideal set by Akio. Anthy's now on the rape couch. Akio is talking up his setup, how powerful he is and how important this room is and Utena sees through it to the important thing about it, which is all of the abuse he did here. He just goes "oh, are you mad about that? Why? It's not any worse than what you've done by not rejecting me when I groomed you," and shows a highlight real of him grooming her and I hate him more with every frame. He even blames her for not thinking of Anthy or recognizing that she was suffering (because he was abusing her). No matter what he says though, Utena just cannot accept his lack of care for Anthy's pain. This episode has some really good animation. Now she's naive for believing in the prince, when a minute ago he was her prince and that was why she should listen. It's remarkable how smoothly Akio transitions between these, and Utena calls him on it this time. He claims Dios vanished with Anthy, which is part of why I have my theory about the Dios that saved Utena. Utena is remarkably clear eyed and is able to keep cutting through his bullshit when he says Anthy can only be happy like this (while she is being impaled by all those swords and in pain) because they love each other. The student council getting together to recite the egg speech and all putting in their own colored rose feels sweet after all these episodes. They've all met up to root for Utena, and even though I like some of these characters a lot more than others, it's still nice to see. The roses all transform to white, which is probably a good omen. The duel is good but I can't really comment on it. I'm just thinking about how it ends. I like the way it goes from og arena to black rose with the desks to all those cars. I'm genuinely really proud of Utena for having finally figured it out. She will not turn away from what this room, what this school, and what this man mean and what they do to Anthy. Admittedly, she still says she's going to be a prince. In response I'm going to quote a post I saw the other day. "UTENA DON'T BECOME A PRINCE!!! IT'S AN UNREALISTIC IDEAL THAT PERPETUATES THE SYSTEM OF VIOLENCE THAT IS LITERALLY BUILT UPON ANTHY'S SUFFERING!!!UTENAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!" Her declaration does shatter the massive image of the prince and the castle that's been hanging above their heads the whole time, which I think shows that she's actually trying to move beyond the image of the prince as savior but doesn't have the language to do so and so defaults to what she knows from childhood. No less harmful, but I think Utena mostly has her head on straight at this point. This sequence gives me a headache, these flashing lights are real bad. Akio throws Anthy at Utena as she gains the upper hand. Anthy closes her eyes, embraces Utena, and stabs her in the back, as she kisses her shoulder and gently lowers her to the ground.
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Nov 26, 2023 14:27
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Making episode 39 a separate post just to keep things more readable. But I couldn’t stop after that episode if I wanted to, I need to finish this. This loving carousel. I get it! I get the revolving cycles and the pegasi from the opening being fake and the treachery of imagination! I don’t believe for a second that Utena’s gender is why Anthy did it. I guess you could read it as Anthy being too scared to be in an openly queer relationship and falling back into the more socially acceptable heterosexuality, but I don’t think so. She was just scared and went back to the devil she knew. Meanwhile back at the ranch, Saionji was about to take off his ring but Touga says not to until things are over. They have to support her. Nanami’s already taken hers off. The fact that they were the ones to do so shows how they were the ones to see through things first, but Saionji sticks around for Touga’s sake while Nanami actually tried to hit the bricks. Nanami’s also visually on another level, since she’s crouching. A nice touch. Juri shares a story of a boy struggling to save someone in an ultimately vain way and dying for it, only to be forgotten by everyone. The main members of the student council all turn their heads, eyes welling. Nanami says “that’s hosed up, why’d you say that?” I love her so much Akio continues to be the worst. The shifting rose behind him as he walks away is really cool. He’s now in the place we recognize from Utena’s flashback, trying to break into Anthy’s torment by stabbing it with a sword. Utena holding Anthy’s dress trying to keep her from walking back into the torment nexus while Anthy say goodbye, but thanks her. The missing link sequence where all the swords start flying up to her, forming a ring. I assume they wanted to cause the viewer pain in more ways than one with this scene, because the lights give me a headache. Akio tries to open a stone door by stabbing it because he’s stupid. Utena struggling to rise up, begging Akio (who she spent all of last episode hating!) to help Anthy as the ghost of the prince rides the carousel and tells her that actually Akio is doing the most important thing right now is very good. I think the prince here is Utena’s internal monologue about how “oh I could give up. I’ve tried so hard, I got stabbed, if Akio succeeds surely he’ll help Anthy…” But she punches the ground and gets up and I am cheering. The animation of her getting up is so good especially with the music. Akio’s sword broke and he just goes “Well, Anthy will stay loyal to me and keep suffering in my place, better luck next time.” Utena shoves him aside as she stumbles her way towards Anthy, it’s so satisfying. He keeps talking about how he couldn’t do it no matter how hard he tried (which was hard! He promises!) so she can’t possibly do anything. And he’s got a cocktail now. Utena is on point in these episodes, and Akio loses the prince when she tells him to shut up as she succeeds. What it took was her saying “The only time I was ever really happy was when I was with you,” and crying. I will note that Akio’s sword couldn’t open these gates, but Utena’s fingers could. Funnily enough now that Utena opens the doors and is trying to help Anthy Akio no longer wants them open. The swords start to leave Anthy alone as they search for a new target. Utena pulls Anthy’s coffin open, holding out her hand and introducing herself for real for the first time. She’s never truly seen Anthy before, never interacted with her true self. Suddenly the screen is too blurry for me to read the subtitles and I need to pause for a minute. The swords tear everything apart but Utena won’t leave Anthy, no matter what Anthy says. As much as Utena might want to though, she can’t reach Anthy by herself. She can hold out her hand but Anthy has to make the choice to take it. “Someday… Someday together…” Anthy finally reaches out, taking the first step, but Utena’s grip isn’t enough and Anthy falls. Utena is destroyed by one million swords as she apologizes for pretending to be a prince. The shadow play girls discuss their future as we see how the school is doing after all that. Things have barely changed. No one can remember Utena anymore except vaguely. She had an accident, or got betrayed by her friend or lover, or got in trouble with Akio. The details don’t matter. We see the student council. Miki’s teaching Tsuwabuki how to use the stopwatch so he can assist Miki in his duties as Tsuwabuki blushes. Kozue is behind them at the piano. Miki is still distanced from her, but they’re forming healthier bonds with others and each other, as Kozue is willing to sit at the piano bench and possibly even play (though we don’t see it if she does). Touga and Saionji are sparring as they discuss classes. Nanami is distant from them but in the same room pouring tea for the three of them. I don’t know what to make of this, but I have hope that it’s showing Saionji and Touga growing a little and no longer needing to abuse those around them, and that Nanami is making an effort to be a part of her brother's life while keeping the lessons she’s learned. Juri leads the fencing club, which Shiori has rejoined. Shiori may not have everything figured out, but clearly she at least realizes she could have a different kind of relationship with Juri. I think they can figure it out. Nanami’s groupies reject the barbershop boys. Wakaba is hanging out with the Onion Prince as a girl we haven’t seen before glomps her out the window. Wakaba is in fact special, like she always wanted. She always has been. Akio gives a very dismissive monologue about how everyone forgot her (because systems of oppression fight to erase anything that breaks the mold, and if they can’t stop the deeds they can hide them from history). Anthy takes her glasses off (no longer hiding from the world) as Chuchu rejects Akio by taking off his earring and tie and says “You really don’t know what’s happened, do you? It doesn’t matter. By all means, stay in this cozy coffin of yours and continue to play prince. But I have to go now. She isn’t gone at all. She’s merely vanished from your world,” and walks away as Akio begs her to stay. “This time it’s my turn to go. No matter where you are, I swear I’ll find you. Wait for me… Utena,” as the kickass lalala version of the op plays and Anthy walks through the credits. I'm crying but also cheering. This ending is so unbelievably uplifting after what the rest of the show has been like. After the credits we get the scene that makes me sob every time. The slow zoom on the photo with Akio’s face cropped out, as you realize they’re holding hands. “If you ever have a problem, come to me first. I want us to be friends like that. And someday, together…” “Someday together?” AND SOMEDAY, TOGETHER, WE’LL SHINE. I’m not joking about sobbing, I start ugly crying at this bit, making gross noises and everything.
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Nov 26, 2023 14:30
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This show means so much to me, it changed my life and the way I view the world. I can’t express how important it is to me, but it seems like at least a few people watched it and enjoyed what I had to say here despite me not always being the most coherent. I don’t think any other work has or will hit like this for me, and I’m incredibly grateful for the excuse to rewatch it. I had a good time with you all, and I hope we can watch the movie in a week or two and keep discussing this incredible show!
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Nov 26, 2023 14:31
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thank you again for these incredible writeups. this show pwns
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Nov 26, 2023 18:11
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chrome line posted:The missing link sequence where all the swords start flying up to her, forming a ring. I assume they wanted to cause the viewer pain in more ways than one with this scene, because the lights give me a headache. this is the scene that hurt me the most in the finale (even more than the anthy's betrayal i think). utena spent the whole show pulling one sword (maybe thorn out of the lion's paw is a fun fairy tale comparison to make at this point) at a time from anthy, and it's just overwhelming and awful to see the endless despair and misery anthy has been dealing with. all of utena's effort transformed into a meaningless drop in the bucket. also, i know i posted this before because i saw a lot of violent food imagery in one episode block (i think it's from when nanami is staying at the ohtori residence) but man this apple shot is some truly awful foreshadowing for all the scenes where anthy gets impaled. 
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Nov 26, 2023 20:27
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post thanksgiving utena post. here are some things i'm thankful for from the last few episodes: i really love the student council scenes at the end of the world. there's a somber sincerity to most of them that contrasts with the staging and artifice we normally get when they're together.  the scenes with big dios projector in the background own!! i love this towering representation of the shows themes overwhelming the characters  even in the darkest moments, i love that the show never shies away from using absurd props to make a point (the point in this scene is that akio is a glamorous piece of poo poo) 
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Nov 26, 2023 20:31
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Lady Radia posted:So, fun story: first time I watched the three ep finale, I did it with friends on a voice call, and one immediately asked me what I thought. All I could do was sputter out “it was f-fine” while clearly audibly crying. chrome line posted:After the credits we get the scene that makes me sob every time. The slow zoom on the photo with Akio’s face cropped out, as you realize they’re holding hands. “If you ever have a problem, come to me first. I want us to be friends like that. And someday, together…” “Someday together?” AND SOMEDAY, TOGETHER, WE’LL SHINE. I’m not joking about sobbing, I start ugly crying at this bit, making gross noises and everything. greetings, fellow end of utena criers. i think the way it manages to transform utena's despair and perceived failure into a triumph is incredible and one of the most beautiful and cathartic endings i've ever experienced. everything after utena opens the door is amazing; the music swelling as anthy falls, the silent cut to wakaba in the midst of the tower collapsing, there are just 10000 perfect details.
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Nov 26, 2023 20:59
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Nov 26, 2023 20:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX3O-pys_YI
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Nov 26, 2023 21:20
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Nov 26, 2023 21:29
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I'll probably come up with a convoluted theory and interpretation and piss some people off at some point, but now is not that time. Instead I'll just say: what a beautiful ending 
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Nov 26, 2023 22:39
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TwoStoryHouseCat posted:I'll probably come up with a convoluted theory and interpretation and piss some people off at some point, but now is not that time. Instead I'll just say: what a beautiful ending your convoluted theories are a fun and good part of this thread, i like all the different ways people have been reflecting on their utena experience
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Nov 26, 2023 22:44
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Thanks fam  same to you
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Nov 26, 2023 22:48
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why would you post this and make me tear up randomly
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Nov 26, 2023 23:06
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Lady Radia posted:why would you post this and make me tear up randomly i'm sorry, it needed to be preserved in this thread
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Nov 26, 2023 23:10
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Here, have some official art 
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Nov 26, 2023 23:28
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 YggiDee posted:Here, have some official art I can't believe how good this art is chrome line fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 04:08
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still writing something up for the finale as a whole. but heres the most important part. this is clearly a kendo/kenjutsu stance appropriate for a two-handed sword but she's holding a one-handed dueling sword extended out to longsword proportions for some reason. having your hands that close together on a sword that long is silly. this is an obvious anachronism arising from a japanese production and im frankly very offended, and upset, and its harming my enjoyment of the program. e: her guard is also too high. frankly unwatchable ee: "swords dont go with dresses" this man is full of poo poo because a japanese swordsman's uniform looks like a dress eee: bend your loving elbows utena!!! Ohtori Akio fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 07:24
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Ohtori Akio posted:ee: "swords dont go with dresses" this man is full of poo poo because a japanese swordsman's uniform looks like a dress I'm rewatching this and I think it's possible this man is just saying fuckin whatever, he seems cool with his sister having all those swords
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Nov 27, 2023 07:41
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chrome line posted:I'm rewatching this and I think it's possible this man is just saying fuckin whatever, he seems cool with his sister having all those swords starting to think ohtori akio is untrustworthy.
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Nov 27, 2023 07:42
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alright ive got my notes together. cookie scene: the looping audio is really effective. and then the smash cut to the suicide attempt…… i think the general purpose of 37 is to reset the stakes a little: both utena and anthy are subject to weakness, but they find identity and strength in the roles they play together. it really is anthys lifeline. i think the suicide attempt is contextualized well in 38. within my framing of utena as aspect-of-anthy, their relationship serves to prevent anthy from completely losing her life to the pain her abuse has brought her. for everything that’s imperfect about the ideal of a prince, it is a tremendous motivating force, and it forms the nucleus of a healthier positive action (hitting the bricks). the scene in the projection room is great because of how much it says about akio himself. someone who devotes their life to mastering the boundary between childhood and adulthood will begin to think nothing but being above childhood actually matters. there’s a beautiful little moment where akio says there’s never been a prince, the word “on” flashes, and we see the projector light up. he’s playing himself!!!!! anyways heres the crux of my utena = anthy thesis. anthy had to kill the petty princely dreams within herself in order to escape the immediate horror of her situation and find the true form of those princely dreams, someday, somewhere. no op on episode 39 is so ominous. anthy is so tender as she does it……gently caress man nanami as character anthy comprehends the arc of is absolutely vital to anthy’s victory. anthy escaping hinges on her ability to see that anyone, no matter how silly or small or dependent, can just walk away from the things they think they are dependent on. nanami ftmfw anthy’s final torture coinciding with her turning her back on utena isn’t an accident. setting aside futile princedom means forsaking that noble spirit and giving in to pain, doesn’t it? we loving see akio chilling out next to his own (dead) princely self as anthy’s princely self struggles to reach her. im RIGHT and this is compatible with the plain romance of their interaction, because anthy is learning to love and value herself. she can’t get out of the coffin until she sees that utena has always been fighting for HER, and she’s worth fighting for. i am sorry this reads as a manifesto but i feel very strongly about this reading and i think thats a good way to post, within reason. the final sequence is beautiful. utena really does have a happy ending. anthy crosses that threshold alone, under her own power, looking beautiful and thriving. she is perfect in herself, and perfect in her flaws.
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Nov 27, 2023 08:45
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and it is close to midnight, so here is my final batch post of a thread i have been happy to share with all of you. it is now legal to discuss the film, which I will watch as soon as i can. thank you all so much for joining me, and sharing your thoughts, and posting pictures. i really do think this is one of the best works of moving pictures ever made. i am made whole again whenever someone experiences it and all it contains.
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Nov 27, 2023 08:48
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Ohtori Akio posted:starting to think ohtori akio is untrustworthy. username post combo btw ha ha ha
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Nov 27, 2023 18:20
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Ohtori Akio posted:the final sequence is beautiful. utena really does have a happy ending. anthy crosses that threshold alone, under her own power, looking beautiful and thriving. she is perfect in herself, and perfect in her flaws. it is genuinely one of the best sequences of all time
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Nov 27, 2023 18:23
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Now that everyone has I believe finished the series, here's the thing I mentioned that I only found out while researching for this thread. Apparently in the official art book for this series they show an image of Juri and Shiori after the series is over and Utena and Anthy have left: So it does seem that they do get together at some point or are at least are moving towards that. I like the reversal that Shiori is now the one with the locket, pining after Juri but its out in the open instead of hidden. Just from looking at them you can see that they look much more healthy in their relationship.
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Nov 29, 2023 13:56
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juri and shiori don't exist after the series ends, whatever happens to them is up to the reader regardless
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Nov 29, 2023 14:11
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