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Zulily Zoetrope posted:You tried to throw an improvised petroleum bomb. It missed. Then you said *it's a fiasco, bratan* in a funny voice. A firefight ensued. Yeah that bit was darkly hilarious. Less so when Lizzie got shot
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Nov 25, 2023 23:43
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| # ? May 31, 2024 23:59 |
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Cuno definitely seems to attract some Takes even as characters in this game go, but I always figured one important role he serves is your comic relief early on. He's the first really goofy (if in a realistic way) character you encounter, who says and does outrageous and absurd things like the player character can, and a source of great lines. ('The gently caress does Cuno know what a rake is? Cuno's not a loving gardener!') Especially with him and Cunoesse making outrageous commentary on the examination and field autopsy, bringing some levity to pretty grim work. There's also probably a point there where he's acting in a very realistic tween way of constantly testing boundaries and the limits of what behaviour he can get away with, prodding the detectives and pushing them to either confront or ignore him. And the whole thing with the Empathy check to realise he's being friendly by Martinaise standards. He's easier to win over if you do cool poo poo like shoot down the body and find the bullet, because that is exactly the kind of thing that impresses him. Also some implications that Cuno is a lot like how the protagonist probably was at his age.
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Nov 26, 2023 07:28
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Comedy relief? Why wasn't he funny then?
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Nov 26, 2023 07:31
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It was funny when I punched him. 
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Nov 26, 2023 07:33
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the funniest line in the game is cunoesse going “gently caress your poo poo back to normal!” when you select the “i’ve got a pig face, it’s poo poo” line after looking in cuno’s shack. she is seriously weirded out by that. it owns
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Nov 26, 2023 08:58
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There's something extra funny about Cuno (and Cunoesse) calling you a slur and it's the only thing in this vulgar game that is censored.
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Nov 26, 2023 14:26
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The jacket is also censored, at least in the final cut version.
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Nov 26, 2023 14:36
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I'm pretty sure Harry is the first really goofy and the first comedy relief character you meet. "I want to have gently caress with you" like come oN!
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Nov 26, 2023 15:27
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In the first ten minutes of the game for me he messed up sneaking out on paying his bill, crashed into a woman in a wheelchair and promptly died of a heart attack. It's the most I've ever laughed at anything in a video game
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Nov 26, 2023 15:39
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Finally played through the game, some thoughts on the conclusion to the case - I liked the solution to the case. It felt appropriate that the murder was committed by someone who had been overlooked, acting on a combination of bitter political resentment and psycho-sexual jealousy. It seemed appropriate thematically and the scene confronting him was good. I think the structure of the game does suffer towards the end, though. The plot segment where you gradually break down the lies surrounding the lynching at the Whirling-in-Rags is great, and you can work out that: - the lynching was a farce - the victim was actually shot - nobody heard the gunshot, therefore the bullet must have come from far away - there are the three places where the shot most likely came from Given that, the fact that you're then forced to chase the Ruby thread which turns out to be pretty much a complete blind alley which wastes time as the mercenaries move feels bad. Like maybe she could shed a bit of light on the lynching situation, but you already mostly understand that and she has an alibi since there's no way she could have run to a position where she could've made the shot and got back in 10 minutes. It seems like we could've reasonably just gone to Joyce to try and beg a ride to the island. Or if we just mentioned the island to a couple of people on the fishing village it seems like we could've found out about the 'fire-man' which would be a very strong reason to go to the island. Still a good game, and I appreciate that having a branch like that would've taken up a collosal amount of scarce dev resources, but that one aspect of the main plotline felt like I was being forced to follow a bad lead while the rest of the game felt like it flowed pretty naturally.
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Nov 26, 2023 17:06
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I agree that it is kind of frustrating, but I don't think it's as much of a stretch as you say, though it obviously depends on which particular threads you pull: -Of course the tribunal is a climax event that has to happen, and I think it's set up in a way that forces it while making it feel organic by having a plot event at the opposite side of the map that flags you to go back to the Whirling. -You don't actually have to accuse Ruby of the murder, just convince Titus that she's the only remaining known quantity that might have information. -Your brain analysis says that the rooftop is by far the likeliest point of shooting, which by video game logic means it's definitely not the scene of the shooting, but by actual logic that should be your prime suspect. I think you can also tell Kim you want to check out the island and he will insist on eliminating the more plausible and accessible leads first. -Ruby definitely could have secretly made it to the roof and back in 10 minutes, there's a whole subset of entirely optional clues that believably point to her.* -If you threaten to arrest Klaasje, she will wholly throw Ruby under the bus and fabricate a motive and maintain that Ruby single-handedly planned the whole fake lynching to cover up her own crime. -Nobody hearing the gunshot is the real sticking point, but I don't remember much attention being drawn to it before you talk to Ruby? I always kind of assumed it wouldn't be that audible from a loud bar two floors down. *Putting this in a separate spoiler tag because it's kind of a conclusion to its own subplot thread: -It eventually turns out that the Deserter was the one skulking around the Whirling-in-Rag, and he snuck up on the roof the day after the shooting to leave May Bells for Klaasje, and it just so happens that he has the same boot size as Ruby. It's a very valid red herring at the time!
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Nov 26, 2023 17:51
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The game gives you such an impression of freedom while you are playing it that it's naturally a bit disappointing to look backwards and see the rail tracks you've been on a lot more clearly - even though the game genuinely does give you a lot of freedom.
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Nov 26, 2023 19:11
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I can almost see the logic, but the game does (or at least can) raise the issue of the gunshot sound in a thought after your final confrontation with Titus. It just seems like it's not information you can act on, even though it would seem to eliminate the (otherwise plausible) rooftop gunman theory and therefore exonerate both Klaasje and Ruby. Finding out that a military-style rifle was used in the shooting also significantly raised the chance of it being a distant sniper in my view. I'd say in almost every other part of the game the progression on the investigation feels pretty natural and you have a few ways to advance, even if I assume you ultimately get drawn into the same basic plot beats (which makes sense since you really need to unravel the fake lynching to make any progress in the case). The lowest effort fix I can think of would be to make it so you can raise the gunshot sound at some point (maybe with Kim or Titus?) and introduce some possible refutation like the possibility of a silencer or the Whirling just being generally loud enough that people could plausibly miss a gunshot. That would've made the Ruby chase seem like less of an obvious blind alley in my view. I don't have a problem with the shootout scene itself though - it makes sense that even though you've made some progress with the case you still can't convince a very damaged war criminal not to seek revenge for the death of what was quite possibly the only person he ever cared about. Heck, even if you could straight up solve the case and arrest The Deserter before that scene I'm not convinced you could fully prevent the ensuing battle, he was still always going to be pissed off at the Hardy Boys for stringing his (effective) brother up to rot in public for days. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 20:00
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Alchenar posted:The game gives you such an impression of freedom while you are playing it that it's naturally a bit disappointing to look backwards and see the rail tracks you've been on a lot more clearly - even though the game genuinely does give you a lot of freedom. I would rather a game tell a compelling story on rails than tell a bland or derivative story with ~player agency~. DE is at its core a linear story; the culprit never changes and the nature of the main plot is fixed, but the gameplay and player agency is in everything else: how things happen, rather than what ultimately happens. This places more of an emphasis on the player's choices for Harry's development, which seems right for this game and its writing. It's as much (if not more) about Harry as it is about the case he is investigating. The linearity did also strike me as odd in the moments after finishing the game, but I had such a good time along the way and the game provoked so many moments of reflection along the way that I don't mind. If I want a more mutable game narrative, I'll play a different game that cares about that over just solid writing.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:33
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The other thing is that it really doesn't feel linear, and they do a good job of hiding it when you're playing until you get to the point you've played it multiple times in multiple ways and can spot the beats as they come up. The game works best trying to find out more and more about the investigation, which does kind of lend itself to repeat plays in terms of finding out different things and ending up with different conclusions, but there's also the problem that you also end up seeing the framework it's hanging on. Either they do it this way where the story is branching linear but excellent, or the clues and the people holding them would have to be randomised, which is going to be valley-of-1000-heads level of effort and isn't going to be anywhere near as coherent. I ended up going back and forth between Klaasje and the Hardies at the end and it felt like the only frustrating un-natural beat in the game.
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Nov 27, 2023 00:04
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:spoilers Who or what is May Bells? The name of the island or something? Played through the entire game (on a 2nd playthrough) and doesn't ring any bells, though I have jut woken up and not had coffee yet.
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Nov 27, 2023 11:02
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Desdinova posted:Who or what is May Bells? The name of the island or something? Played through the entire game (on a 2nd playthrough) and doesn't ring any bells, though I have jut woken up and not had coffee yet. flowers you find them on klaasje's balcony and later on the island
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Nov 27, 2023 11:08
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You need a yellow thought bubble to spot them (I'm assuming Perception), and then a red Hand/Eye Coordination to catch them before the wind blows them away. They leave a long thread at which to pull, where you can learn from René and Gaston that they were revolutionary flowers, both of the kind that a woman would give his man before he went off to war, and that the communists would wear as a symbol of Revachol, but seem to have no connection to the case itself, with Kim getting annoyed and saying that not every piece of trash you pick up has to be related. The big payoff is that May Bells don't blossom anywhere in Martinaise this early, other than on the island, which is a big tick on linking the Deserter to the case, but the real meat is that you can ask him why he decided to give Klaasje flowers. He's not really sure himself, and you can speculate that he felt sympathy for her as she was grieving, or that he wanted to manipulate her, or, if you pass a hefty passive Volition check, that it *wasn't* his idea, something put the thought in his head. That last one will inspire a brief flash of terror, implying that it's on the mark. There's a bunch of Volition checks that can notice that the Deserter isn't entirely in control of his own actions, but I think that's the only one (other than the big Inland Empire active check at the end) that directly suggests the Phasmid is capable of having complex motivations.
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Nov 27, 2023 11:30
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I find I have a hard time getting people to play this game for two reasons. The first is, "I don't like to read video games." Fair enough. The second is, "I can't relate to a sad alcoholic communist police officer." More than fair enough. Wish I could break through to certain people, though.
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Nov 28, 2023 02:54
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I think the miracle of this game is that it does make a surprising number of people relate to a sad alcoholic possibly communist police officer. "I'm such a fuckup I've obliterated my own identity" is maybe not a common human experience, but it's definitely in sight of a lot of common human experiences.
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Nov 28, 2023 02:57
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General Battuta posted:I think the miracle of this game is that it does make a surprising number of people relate to a sad alcoholic possibly communist police officer. "I'm such a fuckup I've obliterated my own identity" is maybe not a common human experience, but it's definitely in sight of a lot of common human experiences. it's not a common experience, but it's a common desire. For people with a lot of regrets, who can't take being themselves anymore. You don't want to kill yourself, you don't really want to be dead, but you want to stop being you.
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Nov 28, 2023 03:03
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Yeah, I have basically nothing in common with "alcoholic divorced communist police officer" but I can still resonate with poo poo like "I said something dumb and can't backpedal and am doubling down on my increasingly nonsensical statement" or "I desperately need this guy I just met to think I'm cool" or "wow I should never listen to my impulses" or "where the gently caress is my
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Nov 28, 2023 03:24
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i could never relate to doing a deeply uncomfortable public self-harm "joke" that is so hosed up no one wants to talk to me anymore
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Nov 28, 2023 03:26
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who among us is not doing their best to keep from falling apart in the face of sheer terror, day after day?
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Nov 28, 2023 03:48
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I also have a hard time pitching it because I really don't want to spoil the premise of what skills actually do, that's such a wonderful surprise if you run into it blind. My greatest success was talking to a lit nerd and reciting the Kingdom of Conscience solution from memory. That's a good draw, and unlikely to be a spoiler if you know your friends would never commit to Moralism.
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Nov 28, 2023 03:50
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Has anyone ever floated the theory that Dolores Dei was a phasmid or somehow related to one? There’s the theory of her not being human, and her undue influence over people could be explained in part by the phasmids mind control ability.
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Nov 28, 2023 06:29
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I think about the solution to Waste land of Reality a lot 
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Nov 28, 2023 07:24
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I am a bit late for Kim and Moralism discussion but noone seemed to mention that Kim sees nothing even sligtly odd or unusual about Mega Rich Light-Bending Guy. To him he is just a well-dressed individual.
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Nov 28, 2023 08:43
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Sekenr posted:I am a bit late for Kim and Moralism discussion but noone seemed to mention that Kim sees nothing even sligtly odd or unusual about Mega Rich Light-Bending Guy. To him he is just a well-dressed individual. Well yeah because Kim isn't mega-broke
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Nov 28, 2023 09:29
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he continues to bend light even after you manage to scam him out of 250,000 real so either kim is loving loaded or you are just having a transient ischemic attack every time you talk to him
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Nov 28, 2023 10:01
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cock hero flux posted:he continues to bend light even after you manage to scam him out of 250,000 real so either kim is loving loaded or you are just having a transient ischemic attack every time you talk to him The point is the game Devs didn't think shares in a company are 'real wealth'. Oops
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Nov 28, 2023 10:02
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Can't believe you all fell for the phasmid hoax
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Nov 28, 2023 13:50
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cock hero flux posted:he continues to bend light even after you manage to scam him out of 250,000 real so either kim is loving loaded or you are just having a transient ischemic attack every time you talk to him Let's be real here, which of these possibilities is likely to be true with Harry Du Bois
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Nov 28, 2023 13:51
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Why doesn’t the light bend around Joyce at all?
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Nov 28, 2023 17:14
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christmas boots posted:Why doesn’t the light bend around Joyce at all? Probably has at least one generation less of inherited wealth
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Nov 28, 2023 17:16
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christmas boots posted:Why doesn’t the light bend around Joyce at all?
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Nov 28, 2023 17:17
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christmas boots posted:Why doesn’t the light bend around Joyce at all? Joyce is powerful and wealthy, but she's not even remotely in the same class as megarich guy. She's business class, he's leisure class. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 17:22
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GlyphGryph posted:Joyce is powerful and wealthy, but she's not even remotely in the same class as megarich guy Industrial capital vs finance capital
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Nov 28, 2023 17:30
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He gives you a photocopy of a stock certificate. Isn't there dialogue at the pawnshop questioning if it's actually worth anything?
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Nov 28, 2023 19:45
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christmas boots posted:Why doesn’t the light bend around Joyce at all? She is dimmed by a smoking habit
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Nov 28, 2023 21:09
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