(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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I don't understand half the words in your post. "contact with mike" ? "the underground reading group nests" ?
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Nov 28, 2023 19:07
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| # ? May 26, 2024 04:29 |
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my dad posted:I don't understand half the words in your post. "contact with mike" ? "the underground reading group nests" ? people who read theory and discuss it together are troglodyte greybeards lurking underground and are best left undisturbed
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Nov 28, 2023 19:09
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the only theory i need is a stack of gritty memes and a lifetime of head trauma
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Nov 28, 2023 19:10
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I think there's also a tendency of academic Marxism that tries to separate their work? Idk I've only been exposed by rebuttals to the antis-Engels Marxist, like in this piece:Frederick Engels: The First Marxist? by Bruce McFarlane posted:A circle of hell is reserved for the mean-spirited professors who, flush with tax-funded computers and research assistants, make reputations out of nitpicking at the editorial efforts of Engels, who, at 70 and with failing sight, worked almost unaided to bring the second and third volumes of Capital to publication while continuing to act as a nerve center for a worldwide working-class movement. Those whom Engels saw as “brooding eclectic flea-crackers” are not to be seen near a picket line. https://monthlyreview.org/2023/09/01/frederick-engels-the-first-marxist/
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Nov 28, 2023 19:12
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my dad posted:I don't understand half the words in your post. "contact with mike" ? "the underground reading group nests" ? mic = military industrial complex
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Nov 28, 2023 19:13
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In Training posted:I think there's also a tendency of academic Marxism that tries to separate their work? Idk I've only been exposed by rebuttals to the antis-Engels Marxist, like in this piece: engels ftw
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Nov 28, 2023 19:26
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I know the so called "Marxist humanists" can be anti-Engels. That current has a big focus on "young Marx" and minimizing Engels makes it easier for them to write off Lenin too. They are a bunch of fools
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Nov 28, 2023 19:31
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In Training posted:I think there's also a tendency of academic Marxism that tries to separate their work? Idk I've only been exposed by rebuttals to the antis-Engels Marxist, like in this piece: there's a weird tendency among environmentalist type leftists to try and blame Engels for moving Marxism away from the kind of ecological theories that Marx was working on.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:35
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AnimeIsTrash posted:engels ftw Yup. Definitely an all timer.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:39
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my dad posted:Something that crosses my mind: the letters of Marx and Engels during the civil war reflect this dynamic between the two. Engels consistently views the war primarily through the military lense and after being encouraged by the Yankee mobilization and industry gets increasingly pissed and despondent about the lack of advance by Union troops in the first years. Marx makes him consider the actual political struggle occurring within the Union government and lays out how the contradictions in the South make victory through Confederate military success alone basically impossible. Engels uses more slurs so definitely the more problematic of the two though
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Nov 28, 2023 19:40
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Ferrinus posted:here's the thing, though. now that we're going to have room-temperature superconductors easily produced in a backyard furnace, the great leap forward is completely vindicated 
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Nov 28, 2023 19:46
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It's been over a decade since I read Engel's on the origin of family but i remember it whipping pretty hard for being written in the 1880s
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Nov 28, 2023 20:38
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In Training posted:I think there's also a tendency of academic Marxism that tries to separate their work? Idk I've only been exposed by rebuttals to the antis-Engels Marxist, like in this piece: not gonna be reading the family guy, sorry
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Nov 28, 2023 21:32
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holy crap friedrich
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Nov 28, 2023 21:41
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I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Marxism, is in fact, Engelsism/Marxism, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Engelsism plus Marxism. Marxism is not a framework of political economy unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Engelsism system made useful by the Engels translations, correspondences and vital system components comprising a full framework of political economy as defined by Ricardo.
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Nov 28, 2023 21:42
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mila kunis posted:I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Marxism, is in fact, Engelsism/Marxism, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Engelsism plus Marxism. Marxism is not a framework of political economy unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Engelsism system made useful by the Engels translations, correspondences and vital system components comprising a full framework of political economy as defined by Ricardo. 
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Nov 28, 2023 23:15
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mila kunis posted:I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Marxism, is in fact, Engelsism/Marxism, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Engelsism plus Marxism. Marxism is not a framework of political economy unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Engelsism system made useful by the Engels translations, correspondences and vital system components comprising a full framework of political economy as defined by Ricardo.
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Nov 28, 2023 23:21
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Marx thread: but what if more esoteric terminology?
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Nov 28, 2023 23:25
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Hello there! I was invited to the Marxist thread, and just wanted to make sure I'm in the right place. When I was much younger, I was a Bakunin punk rock anarchist. These days, I'm more of a gay space luxury communism landlords-at-the-end-of-a-bayonet kind of person. And I'm only joking about the luxury and space part. I hope I'm in the right place.
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Nov 28, 2023 23:50
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In all seriousness, the OP first post looks really comprehensive, but a bit daunting. Is there a child's red reading list for those of us who want to navigate Marxist theory from a lay person's point of view? Somewhere to start and then where to go from there.
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Nov 29, 2023 00:03
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https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/date-index.htm
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Nov 29, 2023 00:11
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In all seriousness just this: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm
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Nov 29, 2023 00:13
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Mushika posted:In all seriousness, the OP first post looks really comprehensive, but a bit daunting. Is there a child's red reading list for those of us who want to navigate Marxist theory from a lay person's point of view? Somewhere to start and then where to go from there. how child would you like it to be? there's "i am motivated or used to reading medium-to-long texts but dk much about marxism" child and there's "i have never read non-fiction which wasn't a pop-history magazine" child, and while each is perfectly possible it does influence what kinds of recommendations people will want to give i personally find lenin a very engaging writer, so i think that imperialism is a good place to start - it does pretty textbook marxist analysis, and uses it in a way which remains useful today. a shorter text but still useful could be luxemburg's reform or revolution. more modern and you can go for david harvey's limits to capital this is all assuming you're used to reading. g.a. cohen writes in a manner more accessible to modern non-reading readers (in part by simple virtue of his project being solidly planted in the intellectual western mainstream and trying to recapitulate marx from there), and why not socialism? is a good place to start very early on.
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Nov 29, 2023 00:13
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V. Illych L. posted:how child would you like it to be? there's "i am motivated or used to reading medium-to-long texts but dk much about marxism" child and there's "i have never read non-fiction which wasn't a pop-history magazine" child, and while each is perfectly possible it does influence what kinds of recommendations people will want to give I'm not averse to deep reading, but I don't have an economic or academic political background, so there are a lot of concepts and terminology in the literature that are often lost on me. Also, at times I feel like when I am done with a particular work, I'm left with the feeling of, "where do I go from here? This was good and enriching, but what work is the follow-through? What now?" Thank you RedSky, I'll definitely check out those selected works.
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Nov 29, 2023 00:23
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Maybe I could phrase it better. Capitalists have business schools or MBA programs in universities where they teach a very skewed economic system as writ from god from adolescent lit to doctoral level, with loads of intermediate levels in between. Where should I start, and what path should I pursue?
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Nov 29, 2023 00:27
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Mushika posted:I'm not averse to deep reading, but I don't have an economic or academic political background, so there are a lot of concepts and terminology in the literature that are often lost on me. Also, at times I feel like when I am done with a particular work, I'm left with the feeling of, "where do I go from here? This was good and enriching, but what work is the follow-through? What now?" if so i think a lot of the most interesting and accessible work in marxist theory was done in europe circa 1900+- and i think lenin's imperialism - the highest stage of capitalism is an ok place to start: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ lenin has very strong poster energy and is extremely good at getting to the heart of whichever matter he's discussing. i don't always think he's right, but imperialism is a very important work and being mainly theoretical it doesn't depend so much on detailed knowledge of the period or of communist sectarian spats
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Nov 29, 2023 00:29
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Why don't you use an area you already find interesting, and use that as your springboard for diving into marxist theory? If you like history there are a ton of socialist/marxist authors to chose from, or if you like reading biographies then read Malcolm X's or Bill Haywood's? It doesn't make sense to read things you don't like although at some point you should probably read through the OG works.
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Nov 29, 2023 00:39
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V. Illych L. posted:if so i think a lot of the most interesting and accessible work in marxist theory was done in europe circa 1900+- and i think lenin's imperialism - the highest stage of capitalism is an ok place to start: Thank you, I'll start reading it tonight.
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Nov 29, 2023 00:39
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why not socialism? is fine, but it's weirdly milquetoast and apologetic. it was written right at the collapse of the soviet union when western liberalism was at its most powerful. but it takes an afternoon or two to read so it's worth it anyway. I think his "historical materialism, a defense" is fantastic but I can also see its appeal being limited to me. abcs of communism (bukharin) is interesting because it's not particularly heavy on theory, it's more of a bureaucratic look at implimenting ideas into society. you should read wretched of the earth at some point. probably first. there isn't really a ton of marxism in it, but by golly is there revolution and fanon is the most invigorating writer. the communist manifesto and wage labor and capital are fine things to read if you don't have a few months to devote to reading capital. on the philosophical theoretical side, engel's socialism, utopian and scientific is good, at least read the intro which places marx in relation to hegel as far as the dialectical/metaphysical and materialist/idealist divides and gives a nice concise overview of where marx is coming from in western philosophy
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Nov 29, 2023 00:42
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the actual math and its implications in capital can totally be understood by anyone who can still understand algebra. if and when you go that route, make sure you read the international publishers edition and not the penguin edition
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Nov 29, 2023 00:48
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Mushika posted:Maybe I could phrase it better. Check out "A Spectre Haunting: On The Communist Manifesto," by China Miéville. I was gifted it by a close friend, and I found it a much more approachable way to digest a foundational theory document. I'm not claiming any correctness to the treatment, but the book also contains the Manifesto as an Appendix, so at least it's worth that.
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Nov 29, 2023 00:56
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I'm a tremendous fan of Octavia Butler, and her fiction is often at least socialist in practice.
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Nov 29, 2023 00:57
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Hey there! Welcome. Personally, I think “Value, Price and Profit” and the Communist Manifesto are the absolute starters that work in pretty much every case; there is a reason why they are the preliminary reads in pretty much every school of Marxism and socialist education initiatives of note.
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Nov 29, 2023 00:59
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mycomancy posted:Check out "A Spectre Haunting: On The Communist Manifesto," by China Miéville. I was gifted it by a close friend, and I found it a much more approachable way to digest a foundational theory document. I'm not claiming any correctness to the treatment, but the book also contains the Manifesto as an Appendix, so at least it's worth that. China Mieville? I read his King Rat and really liked it other than his very 90's expounding on Jungle. e: but I also love rats, so take that as you will
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Nov 29, 2023 00:59
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You've already gotten a hundred recs but I'll just toss out Blackshirts and Reds for some good, specific counter points to the received wisdom of American anticommunism, and it's short and parenti has a lot of other great writing if you wind up liking him.
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Nov 29, 2023 01:10
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haha, a skaven is asking about marx. 
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Nov 29, 2023 01:13
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In Training posted:You've already gotten a hundred recs but I'll just toss out Blackshirts and Reds for some good, specific counter points to the received wisdom of American anticommunism, and it's short and parenti has a lot of other great writing if you wind up liking him. That looks really good, and exactly like what I'm looking for. I had a small bit of disposable income this month, so I went ahead and ordered it from City Lights.
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Nov 29, 2023 01:17
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woke operator posted:the only theory i need is a stack of gritty memes and a lifetime of head trauma oh word
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Nov 29, 2023 01:18
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Tankbuster posted:haha, a skaven is asking about marx. World of Darkness Ratkin. Far worse, as creative company histories go.
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Nov 29, 2023 01:18
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| # ? May 26, 2024 04:29 |
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mila kunis posted:I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Marxism, is in fact, Engelsism/Marxism, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Engelsism plus Marxism. Marxism is not a framework of political economy unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Engelsism system made useful by the Engels translations, correspondences and vital system components comprising a full framework of political economy as defined by Ricardo. The main error is that Marx is not strictly speaking part of the Engels system—whose kernel is Engels's Private Property. The version with Marx, we call “Engelsism/Marxism.” It is OK to call it “Engels” when you want to be really short, but it is better to call it “Engelsism/Marxism” so as to give Marx some credit. We don't use the term “functioning,” and I am not sure what that would mean, but Engelsism is much more than the specific works we wrote for it. I set out in 1844 to develop a scientific system, calling it Engelsism, and that job required writing whichever important works we could not find elsewhere.
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Nov 29, 2023 01:19
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