Blue Footed Booby posted:

This is my perception. Young people genuinely do lack some of the PC-specific variety of tech skills, but the complete helplessness is actually a skill unto itself: playing dumb to make things someone else's problem rather than showing initiative that will get you yelled at if it fails, or get you saddled with more work if it succeeds. They know how to keep expectations low.

WarpedLichen posted:

At the same time, new hires got so used to online resources and guides for nearly everything that they're not used to just trying poo poo and seeing what sticks. So they're more expecting of documentation and guides instead of people used to digging through lovely reference manuals that are wrong half the time. But the old approach had all sorts of problems too, so as long as the company provides an environment and culture where questions are easy to ask and quick to be answered, it's not too bad.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Hate to break to ya from my time in the burger mines, the lovely managers are like 30-45

Misunderstood posted:

How many times and ways do people have to explain that actually, a lot of things got a lot better, and people just don't realize it?
I know you're kind of implicitly putting this in the POV of "casual liberals"

D-Pad posted:

A big complaint I've been seeing from the olds about this new generation in the workforce is that when they say they value work/life balance they actually mean it. Those aren't the words they use but it is basically what it boils down to. This generation does not view work the same and considers that balance to be super important and will have no problem walking if they don't get it. Boomer management has been talking up work/life balance for a couple decades now but more as a marketing slogan than actually meaning it. This new generation is calling their bluff and telling them to gently caress off when they don't get it.

Good for them imo

BRJurgis posted:

I work for a small entry level manual labor company. People who do as little as possible here don't last long. We had one young guy openly declare he wouldn't work any harder than our "least capable" employee (an older woman who's kept on more as a favor to her, as she has no transportation nor retirement). gently caress these big corporations and all, but you don't "quiet quit" on a small team like this, it hurts us all. Have some loving dignity!

New employees generally seem increasingly less durable. We work outside, all weather all year, sometimes it sucks, but you get treated as a human being. I understand the impulse to do as little as possible and collect a paycheck... but everybody wanting to do that is yet more evidence of a broken system, already dead.

*edit* it's cold as gently caress out there sometimes, but if you're in good health simply hustling warms you right up. Work a little faster, move like ya wanna be there. But a lot of new folks shut right down, shocked that anybody should be expected to attempt such a thing. The suggestion you find out what you're capable of runs into an almost literal "why should I have to work hard"- well because otherwise you will just sit there whining and shivering of course!

quote:

Quiet quitting is when employees continue to put in the minimum amount of effort to keep their jobs, but don't go the extra mile for their employer.

BRJurgis posted:

I work for a small entry level manual labor company. People who do as little as possible here don't last long. We had one young guy openly declare he wouldn't work any harder than our "least capable" employee (an older woman who's kept on more as a favor to her, as she has no transportation nor retirement). gently caress these big corporations and all, but you don't "quiet quit" on a small team like this, it hurts us all. Have some loving dignity!

New employees generally seem increasingly less durable. We work outside, all weather all year, sometimes it sucks, but you get treated as a human being. I understand the impulse to do as little as possible and collect a paycheck... but everybody wanting to do that is yet more evidence of a broken system, already dead.

Boris Galerkin posted:

So I’ve heard the phrase “quiet quitting” before but didn’t know what it was. Looked it up and google sez

lol

Why in the gently caress should I “go the extra mile for my employer” lmao that’s such a boomer thing to do

My relationship with my employer is that they pay me for 40 hours of work so I clock in for 40 hours and get the poo poo done that needs to be done to keep stuff on track. I’m not doing more than that.

Barrel Cactaur posted:

To be fair to that kid, it kinda sucks poo poo to see directly that someones sincure is being very directly propped up by your work, especially if your also getting a "gently caress the new guy" pay cut, or feel like your getting that pay cut because your team has a freeloader. Keeping someone old on a sincure is directly apparent in a way your manager pocketing his inflationary price hike isn't. Blatant favoritism is, unsurprisingly, corrosive to moral no matter how justified it feels to the oldest members of the team.

Star Man posted:

I keep saying millennials are the new boomers, but no one in my own generational cohort believes me. Alphas are going to be fuckin ruthless.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

The difference is the kid doesn't expect anyone will take care of him in his retirement.

plainswalker75 posted:

Quiet Quitting isn't "doing as little as possible", it's "doing exactly what your defined job duties say"; i.e. not allowing them to pile on extra duties without any increase in compensation or being forced to work outside your predefined job hours. "Going the extra mile" etc. is just corporate-speak for: "we're going to exploit the poo poo out of you until you burnout and quit and/or die".

BRJurgis posted:

*edit* it's cold as gently caress out there sometimes, but if you're in good health simply hustling warms you right up. Work a little faster, move like ya wanna be there. But a lot of new folks shut right down, shocked that anybody should be expected to attempt such a thing. The suggestion you find out what you're capable of runs into an almost literal "why should I have to work hard"- well because otherwise you will just sit there whining and shivering of course!

BRJurgis posted:

Our systems are bullshit, but we need at least some people need to be able to take care of themselves and others. It speaks towards the "learned helplessness" somebody was describing. It's not strength or wisdom to unnecessarily identify as a dependant, even if I understand why one would if they work for a big evil company. How can we hope to change and overcome the unjust unsustainable monster we've built if we aren't willing to endure and be strong? I can take pride in my work, even if it amounts to making rich people's properties look nice (see my avatar to understand the seperation).

PhazonLink posted:

so what is a switchgear, and do you know it good enough to adequately explain it to be an internet rando ?

Agents are GO! posted:

It's like a reployer

BRJurgis posted:

Our systems are bullshit, but we need at least some people need to be able to take care of themselves and others.

BRJurgis posted:

Our systems are bullshit, but we need at least some people need to be able to take care of themselves and others. It speaks towards the "learned helplessness" somebody was describing. It's not strength or wisdom to unnecessarily identify as a dependant, even if I understand why one would if they work for a big evil company. How can we hope to change and overcome the unjust unsustainable monster we've built if we aren't willing to endure and be strong? I can take pride in my work, even if it amounts to making rich people's properties look nice (see my avatar to understand the seperation).

Sure fine maybe I used the wrong vocabulary. But purposely doing as little as possible at a small company should rightly earn you the ire of your coworkers, and the opportunity to go work somewhere else where that's all they expect.

Angry_Ed posted:

Even more funny, despite "quiet quitting" I essentially ended up getting my only perfect performance review while working there after I stopped giving so much of a poo poo.

Star Man posted:

I keep saying millennials are the new boomers, but no one in my own generational cohort believes me. Alphas are going to be fuckin ruthless.

Mustang posted:

And then when the Zoomers get older they'll be the lovely managers. Tale as old as time.

I'm reasonably certain that 1000 years from now people will still be complaining about their lovely managers.

FlamingLiberal posted:

Yeah I guess at some point we got rid of basic computer training? I’m an older millennial so I was like 12/13 or so when the Internet was really accessible

BRJurgis posted:

Misunderstood posted:

I think there is a middle ground between “go the extra mile for your employer” and “give a poo poo about what you spend your day doing” and everybody should do the latter. Forget your employer, you have customers or clients or coworkers that rely on you and at the very least you have to do right by them.

I also think people are kind of discounting that there are many, many employers who reward high effort through promotion or increased compensation. Not all of them do, and not all of them are good at measuring that effort, but people do not perceive themselves as having no self-interest in performing their job well.

drat it feels good to be a gangsta. Flash a little confidence and The Bobs can’t wait to give you a raise, no matter how little you do.

Levitate posted:

Yeah, every generation will become "the new boomers" as they age and the the younger generations complain about them. People and their priorities and way they look at and handle life and interpersonal interactions change as they get older. Zoomers laughing at millennials will be in the same spot in 20 years. Though that's not to say they'll necessarily be the same exact kind of person, but relative to the younger generation they'll be the "out of touch olds" and so on

Agents are GO! posted:

There's a difference between "doing your job, as agreed" and "making sure to work Capital's balls" and you're veering towards the latter rather than the former. It's good to take pride in your work, it's not good to take pride in being exploited.

Frankly, I was in a similar position at my last (and final, probably) job. At least 60% of my department was comprised of people who had better, grandfathered-in benefits, were paid almost $10 an hour more than me, and who's job skills consisted primarily of "had been here for twenty years." I learned to do exactly what my job was and not a whit more (like tech support for things they refused/were unable to learn.) Being openly a second-class employee while you watch useless people prosper erodes any "pride in ones work" very quickly.

I want to make a joke about "taking pride in comprehending what other people are saying" but every iteration was over hostile, so I'll just leave it at: your attitude on this subject is gross and wrong.

FLIPADELPHIA posted:

This may be true to an extent but I'm skeptical that any generation will ever be as lovely about it as the Boomers, given their fanatical devotion to pulling the ladder up behind them as thoroughly as possible.

BRJurgis posted:

If everybody does as little as possible there is no more small business. Plus literally "moving fast enough to keep your body temperature up" is a rather intuitive baseline.

D-Pad posted:

Misunderstood posted:

I think there is a middle ground between “go the extra mile for your employer” and “give a poo poo about what you spend your day doing” and everybody should do the latter. Forget your employer, you have customers or clients or coworkers that rely on you and at the very least you have to do right by them.

I also think people are kind of discounting that there are many, many employers who reward high effort through promotion or increased compensation. Not all of them do, and not all of them are good at measuring that effort, but people do not perceive themselves as having no self-interest in performing their job well.

drat it feels good to be a gangsta. Flash a little confidence and The Bobs can’t wait to give you a raise, no matter how little you do.

But, you know, that guy had a supernatural phenomenon relaxing him and he was dating Jennifer Aniston. You probably can’t be that confident so it’s easier to just do your job well.

BRJurgis posted:

Can you comprehend "small business"? They run this from their house, which is full of our work materials and gear, as well as a beer fridge which we can enjoy together after work if we choose.

Is all work exploitative? Does simply existing within the USA make any earnest effort foolhardy?

I don't mind that a lonely semi literate old woman isn't working as hard as me, because she's a victim of all this too. If seeing that "useless person prosper" is so offensive to you perhaps reconsider your definitions of gross and wrong.

Edit* keeping enough of a pace to get your blood flowing, at a manual labor job, isn't working capitals balls. It is what you signed up to do. Can't wait to finally establish a commune where nobody will farm or dig latrines cuz its hard work nobody should have to do.

Boris Galerkin posted:

Which also makes it so I don’t care about the long term success of my current job because why would I