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EverettLO posted:Reaper knew what the world was clamoring for: another OSR themed D&D clone. I don't know who thought this would be a good idea in 2023, but it's off to a surprisingly strong start. About 8 hours left on this and the mini-only tier is up to I think 33 figures including a few bigger ones like a dragon and a legally-distinct beholder.
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Nov 18, 2023 16:46
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Does anyone know how to get directly in contact with Mythic Games? I've been trying to get them to update my name and address for their Darkest Dungeon board game KS from 2020 that's finally moving towards being fulfilled, but I've gotten no response to my ticket number through their support page in over a month despite sending them it multiple times. I would prefer to receive the plastic cartoon men I paid for, rather than have them show up for whoever's now living at my old apartment.
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Nov 19, 2023 22:06
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Nov 23, 2023 22:31
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Hopefully they’re not using AI art in this game. I gave it a brief glance and it’s more similar to their previous 2 games’ style, but after Dragon Eclipse, I’m definitely wary.
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Nov 23, 2023 23:51
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JazzFlight posted:Hopefully they’re not using AI art in this game. FWIW, Backerkit has a policy against AI (https://www.backerkit.com/blog/backerkit-ai-policy/) but it doesn't appear Awakened Realms / Gamefound are on board just yet, if they ever would be.
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Nov 24, 2023 00:18
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I don't think Gamefound will ever have an anti AI art policy because Awaken Realms uses AI art in is products.
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Nov 24, 2023 06:52
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The_Doctor posted:
this might be the last AR thing I back, esp if it really is the last Nemesis. kinda wish they just released more aliens and characters for the original though
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Nov 25, 2023 05:52
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Awaken Realms was *alleged* to use AI art in Dragon Eclipse by someone who, IMO, hasn't looked at very many Awaken Realms games because Dragon Eclipse looks very similar (from what's been made available to the public) to the other Awaken Realms games I own going back as far as Lords of Hellas, well before AI art was widely commercially available as far as I know. But you should as ever make your own determinations and spend your money according to your own conscience.
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Nov 26, 2023 02:04
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If you're going to throw shade at the overwhelming evidence provided ITT then at least address the folks directly because they were able to recreate the bland art assets to like 95% with very simple prompts. If you have half an idea how the engines work or a discerning eye for art assets it's extremely obvious they're using AI now to supplement the likely overworked and underpaid artists.
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Nov 26, 2023 02:09
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Your definition of "overwhelming evidence" and mine must differ quite a bit. I don't rule it out, but I am entirely unconvinced. But really my main point is that it was argued, however convincingly I leave up to the individual, not established to be fact. And it's kinda uncool to then just assume it as so established.
malkav11 fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 05:34
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They were asked directly many times on their crowdfunding platform and refused to even engage with the question. But yes, it's uncool to be mean to the huge company pulling in millions of dollars by assuming they're using ai art when they're the only large platform that hasn't released a policy about it and are obviously using it. Totally uncool.
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Nov 26, 2023 05:42
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So this veer into AI Chat is on topic for now, but I'd ask that any evidence be linked rather than vaguely gestured at, and any counter-evidence be better than "well I don't see it." If the company is refusing to engage with the question at all, that's evidence enough for me, personally. We're far past the point where it's reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt on this.
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Nov 26, 2023 06:20
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It is uncool to just assume malfeasance that has not been actually proven, yes. As I say I am not convinced by the evidence provided upthread and the game looks like all their other games to me. (Which, if they were a newer company, might just mean they all use AI art, but here I don't think that's actually possible.) Nor did anyone else I've spoken to it have any idea why y'all thought that, including a guy who's actually played a prototype of the game and is vehemently anti-AI art. That said, I agree that the fact that they've refused to respond to the question does raise flags. I'd otherwise dismiss the idea entirely. But it's not conclusive, and it shouldn't be treated like it is. Edit: The fact that they're looking for a "junior AI researcher" is rather more concerning. (They do also make computer games, it's possible it's about videogame AI, the site is in Polish and I'm relying on Google Translate. But it doesn't sound that way.) Oh and just a reminder that the BackerKit policy has been widely interpreted to be a flat ban on AI but is actually nearly as permissive as Kickstarter's. malkav11 fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 06:20
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To me it's pretty conclusive they are using AI art. If you're not using AI art it's a zero cost win to say 'this product does not include AI art' that creates marketplace differentiation with the people who are anti AI art, but I doubt anyone is making a decision not to ourchase your product because it doesn't include AI art. Why would you not say that when asked unless you were currently using or plan to use AI art?
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Nov 27, 2023 01:18
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Man, my resolve is weakening for the TMNT kickstarter. 
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Nov 27, 2023 19:06
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It finally broke a million, weeks after I predicted it would. It's got stretch goals running up to 1.4 and I kinda doubt it's gonna hit that. I'm not pledging, but I would guess that since a lot of other people are involved and it's not being led by siembieda, it's got a decent chance of fulfilling. Just a guess.
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Nov 27, 2023 19:57
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Sorry for the continued detail, but Dragon Eclipse ability card art is definitely not the same style as previous AR games. It has a lot of telltale signs of AI that weren’t present before: 1) DE ability cards are mostly weird abstractions (a “bite” is a ball, and so is a “tendril”, a “blizzard”, and a “barrier”?) Previous AR games used some painterly abstraction in cards but generally had at least some component of representing the idea of the card. I’m not sure how to embed images from a phone anymore, but check out “liquid tendrils”here. 2) DE has great artwork for the Mystlings (I don’t think anyone is claiming those are ai generated). Why aren’t those characters used in the card art outside of a handful of instances? I don’t own Lords of Hellas, but Tainted Grail and Etherfields both incorporate characters into those characters’ cards. It would have been any easy and obvious design choice for a game focused on uniquely designed collectible dragons… 3) The ability card art that does have representative features has obvious AI absurdities. Look at “Green Wall” here. Most of the leaves look like weird amalgams of real leaves, and critically there is no consistency - some are lily pads, some are taro leaves and no two are alike in the way that real leaves from the same plant would be. I haven’t seen such absurdities in previous AR games. There are a few of the ability cards that have the associated Mystling and don’t have signs of being AI generated, but the vast majority have obvious telltale signs of AI that weren’t present in previous AR games. I’m sure there’s other evidence too, but these points are what convinced me…
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Nov 27, 2023 20:22
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Stickman posted:(examples of AI art) I'm the one who first caused a ruckus over at their crowdfunding page after looking over the art for a while and getting a terrible feeling in the back of my mind. After the Terraforming Mars Kickstarter (and a few other games I had backed and then requested refunds for), I'm much more wary of companies jumping into the AI art pool. The simple fact that my daily question regarding their AI generation policy went ignored for about 2 straight weeks while questions about pledge tier levels, number of sleeves required, add-ons, etc. received immediate responses from the Awaken Realms team meant something was up. I think what may have kicked off my suspicions (in addition to seeing just the box cover when it was first announced and the fact that they FOR SURE used AI art in their S.T.A.L.K.E.R. promo video) was this simple Facebook ad:  Ignoring the photoshopped in mini, there are elements on that lantern that are totally asymmetrical and illogical. What is that metal twist-tie thing on the front bar? Why does the chain link on the top left not attach as looped chains but instead twists around like wire? Why are the vent holes at the top blobby and inconsistent sizes? All tell tale signs of AI-generation and not a human mind at work. EDIT: I'm also suspicious of the art used on the cards paired with their thematic Story Dice. One of them had the standard "AI yelling face" that's very common when you prompt "angry people fighting." JazzFlight fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 20:44
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JazzFlight posted:Thanks for doing this. It's exhausting having to dig out all the evidence again. I remember a convention used AI art, and you could clearly show the hands used in the art to show that it was AI. That's the kind of evidence that would convince me the art is AI generated.
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Nov 27, 2023 23:31
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Flyerant posted:I remember a convention used AI art, and you could clearly show the hands used in the art to show that it was AI. You need really bad hands specifically? People recreating the exact aesthetic with easily discovered prompts and pointing out other obvious AI engine artifacts isn't good enough? I don't see the distinction beyond a lack of familiarity or discerning eye for what the AI engines do. In fact, saying it has to be blatantly awful AI art for you to accept it is exactly what these companies want and why they still have the artist touching things up as best they can. They're being sly by using it for abstract backgrounds and stuff because everyday folks won't give it a second look and it's easier to brush aside the claims. I think recreating the artwork so precisely is every bit if not more damning than bad hands. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 23:48
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There are plugins in photoshop for example that let you fill in background and copy elements and generate them using the built-in AI. So we are now living in a time when artists, doing art, may incorporate AI into their process, potentially without telling their customer/employer. That does not mean I think company did or did not use AI art, but I think we're increasingly going to have these cases where people pore over details in images to try and sus out whether it's all hand drawn or if any of it is machine-assisted. And that kind of sucks for everyone. It would be better for all of these companies to just adopt explicit policies, whatever they're going to be, so that customers can make an informed choice. Failing to answer questions or make any kind of policy statement will also be increasingly unacceptable to those who care about keeping machine-generated content out of their purchases. Regardless of whether you think the Dragon Eclipse thing specifically does or doesn't use 100% real artist hand made artwork, their failure to respond so far is reasonably suspicious that folks can and will draw conclusions from it.
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Nov 28, 2023 00:18
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As has been stated elsewhere before and earlier in this thread. It costs them nothing to say they're not using AI art if they're not, there's no significant pro AI lobby of consumers they'd be alienating. What it does cost them is trust, specifically mine, that they're acting in good faith regarding their use of machine learning tools or lack thereof. At this point if you don't have a policy stated as to whether or not you're going to use AI art, I'm going to assume you're trying to pull a fast one and passing off machine generated art as hand drawn. Just be honest. You won't get my money if you do use AI art, but you also won't get my money if you don't say whether or not you use AI art.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:39
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Leperflesh posted:There are plugins in photoshop for example that let you fill in background and copy elements and generate them using the built-in AI. So we are now living in a time when artists, doing art, may incorporate AI into their process, potentially without telling their customer/employer. That does not mean I think company did or did not use AI art, but I think we're increasingly going to have these cases where people pore over details in images to try and sus out whether it's all hand drawn or if any of it is machine-assisted. And that kind of sucks for everyone. It would be better for all of these companies to just adopt explicit policies, whatever they're going to be, so that customers can make an informed choice. There is a discussion to be had there, and even more if you go into the gray-ish area of AI generated art being reworked by a human artist. These examples, though, seem to be straight up AI. Why wouldn't they fix the chain link in the picture above, if they had an artist to work on this? It's an easy fix. The fact that they own their crowdfunding platform and are still being silent about their policy is a big indicator that, even if they do not use AI art themselves, they at least tacitly endorse the practice. They are not a small one gamedev indie company on their first project, they are a massive publishing house and they own a crowdfunding platform. I am cancelling my Nemesis backing today.
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Nov 28, 2023 08:46
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I would say, crowdfunding is an example of where AI could be used - but in a "I need money to hire an artist, but I don't want this page to be a wall of text. So here is some AI art to give you an idea." way.
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Nov 28, 2023 09:23
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Grey Hunter posted:I would say, crowdfunding is an example of where AI could be used - but in a "I need money to hire an artist, but I don't want this page to be a wall of text. So here is some AI art to give you an idea." way. 
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Nov 28, 2023 09:30
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Leperflesh posted:There are plugins in photoshop for example that let you fill in background and copy elements and generate them using the built-in AI. So we are now living in a time when artists, doing art, may incorporate AI into their process, potentially without telling their customer/employer. Not really, the Photoshop AI will fill it in with something that won't match your style and it's going to look like rear end. Most AI art is entirely made with AI.
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Nov 28, 2023 09:35
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That Italian Guy posted:There should be definitely be a stretch goal "if we get enough money I will hire an artist for the project", but of course we are talking small projects (like sub $5k or the like) where there could feasibly not be enough money to cover that expense unless there is - which is a way crowdfunding allows you to provide additional benefits based on the level of funding. That was the basic idea behind stretch goals originally There's a difference between setting a stretch goal for an addition to your project and setting one for something which is fundamental to it. The art and graphic design of a game is fundamental and should be part of the initial goal. You would not pledge to a project if they said "we're funded at $10k, and if we get to $20k we'll include the board". You should not pledge to a project that says "at $20k we'll hire a real artist instead of stealing someone else's livelihood with AI". Anyway, in projects that don't involve AI in any meaningful way: Giochix are doing Wave 6 of their sleeves to deliver in January. I will personally attest to the exceptional quality and durability of the 120-micron Perfects and will be picking up some more in sizes I either don't have or ran out of. At €14 for half a kilo they're worth a punt.
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Nov 28, 2023 09:46
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Jedit posted:The art and graphic design of a game is fundamental and should be part of the initial goal.
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Nov 28, 2023 10:24
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Boundless Stride: Into the Denlands just launched. I'll give the same disclaimer as when I mentioned (the extremely good) Kinfire Chronicles: I've been friends with Kevin Wilson for decades. That said, it's a chill exploration game with light legacy elements and the same lush treatment as Kinfire Chronicles. I don't even want the miniatures tier, the acrylics look so good. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ahj00ma/boundless-stride-into-the-denlands/description https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2T14u8jptM
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Nov 28, 2023 15:21
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gschmidl posted:Boundless Stride: Into the Denlands just launched. This looks really cute & beautiful, and I'm intrigued by the exploration system. That said, I hope they post a rulebook before the campaign ends since I'm one of those no rulebook = no back type of people.
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Nov 28, 2023 18:01
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BinaryDoubts posted:This looks really cute & beautiful, and I'm intrigued by the exploration system. That said, I hope they post a rulebook before the campaign ends since I'm one of those no rulebook = no back type of people. Already on the campaign page! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NamqyWact5ITziJw8klfyTAlDPaSOMUi/view
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Nov 28, 2023 18:15
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gschmidl posted:Already on the campaign page! This is what I get for using ctrl+f instead of my eyes. Thanks!
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Nov 28, 2023 19:06
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Looks like Steamforged is saving Street Masters!quote:We’re excited to (finally!) let you know Steamforged has acquired the Street Masters board game range and IP from Blacklist Games. https://steamforged.com/blogs/brands/street-masters-announcement Not my first choice, but at least they eventually deliver.
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Nov 29, 2023 02:19
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djfooboo posted:Looks like Steamforged is saving Street Masters! Oh wow. What happened there?
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Nov 29, 2023 02:24
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Wow, so is that money going to result in fulfillment of the 2 or 3 other stalled campaigns? Or will Blacklist just keep selling off the IPs until they fold?
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Nov 29, 2023 14:00
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Dawgstar posted:Oh wow. What happened there? It’s…complicated. Part of KS fulfillment has been held up for years. They went to Indiegogo to bail it out and that has been held up for what feels like years… The worst part is this pretty much destroyed the Sadler Bros. Output and I liked their output. They have real jobs now 
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Nov 29, 2023 18:50
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djfooboo posted:It’s…complicated. Part of KS fulfillment has been held up for years. They went to Indiegogo to bail it out and that has been held up for what feels like years… Well the Sadler brothers dipped out of the company over a year ago. There's a lot of kerfluffle over the guy who took it over and I know at one point they went through a different funding (GoFundMe?) platform and got kicked off because they were off because they were offering rewards for extra funding. The whole thing is a trainwreck and I'm so curious to see if I'll ever see fulfillment of the last horror and fantasy series 2 stuff. But even if not, at this point just watching the chaos unfold has been entertaining as hell.
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Nov 29, 2023 19:25
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Ravus Ursus posted:Wow, so is that money going to result in fulfillment of the 2 or 3 other stalled campaigns? Or will Blacklist just keep selling off the IPs until they fold? If you read the Steamforged update, it sure seems to indicate that Blacklist misrepresented/omitted a lot of pertinent facts prior to the acquisition and that caused Steamforged far more problems initially in fulfilling than they'd hoped to face. So, no, I probably wouldn't hold out a lot of hope that Blacklist will actually use that money to fulfill their other obligations.
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Nov 29, 2023 20:48
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gschmidl posted:Boundless Stride: Into the Denlands just launched. Alas, it's been cancelled, and people seem to think $20k was the real number needed.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:31
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Memnaelar posted:If you read the Steamforged update, it sure seems to indicate that Blacklist misrepresented/omitted a lot of pertinent facts prior to the acquisition and that caused Steamforged far more problems initially in fulfilling than they'd hoped to face. Steamforge are absolute morons if they didn't do their due diligence when acquiring a company that appeared to be running a plastic ponzi scheme lol
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Nov 29, 2023 21:41
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