|
Man, that was a great Canto. Didn't quite hit the emotional high that Canto IV did, but still pretty good. And that Mili song, hoooo what I'm not looking forward to is seeing any of those 3 abno fights in the next Railway, because all of them have mechanics that are gonna make getting a low turn count a pain in the neck
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 06:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 14:13 |
|
|
Verant posted:Man, that was a great Canto. Didn't quite hit the emotional high that Canto IV did, but still pretty good. And that Mili song, hoooo I dunno how the 2nd and 3rd would work, they're both designed around starting with a fresh team and having a big stupid slugfest
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 06:13
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:Yeah, given Pip wanting to be 'rich, and a landlord, and you'd better pay your rent on time!' and the fact he was desperate enough to sign on with the Pequod, I assume he lost his home due to landlord related fuckery and as a literal kid his takeaway was 'landlords are really powerful and this would never happen to a landlord'. Bad news, kid, the City is landlords all the way down. Not that, uh, not that he ever got a chance to learn much else after joining the crew. Given what the flashback shows I'm pretty sure Ahab knew they'd have to sacrifice someone to get the mermaid that will guide them to the Pallid Whale, and under that foreknowledge Pip makes perfect sense as the intended sacrifice, except in the end Stubbs bit it first.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 06:13
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:Yeah, given Pip wanting to be 'rich, and a landlord, and you'd better pay your rent on time!' and the fact he was desperate enough to sign on with the Pequod, I assume he lost his home due to landlord related fuckery and as a literal kid his takeaway was 'landlords are really powerful and this would never happen to a landlord'. Bad news, kid, the City is landlords all the way down. Not that, uh, not that he ever got a chance to learn much else after joining the crew. About Queequeg... you think the reason Ishmael gets into so many fights with Heathcliff is that he kind of reminds her of her? Darker skinned, covered in scars... I know it's only physical but I really noticed all those scars in the epilogue video. Also, holy poo poo, punching Ahab's face in was so cathartic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 06:14
|
|
|
KobunFan posted:About Queequeg... you think the reason Ishmael gets into so many fights with Heathcliff is that he kind of reminds her of her? Darker skinned, covered in scars... I know it's only physical but I really noticed all those scars in the epilogue video. Nah I think it's just because they're both pretty similar at their core. Unrelatedly I like the small case of unreliable narrator where Dante's awkward attempts to reach out to the Sinners affects them more than Dante realizes. Dante seems to think they amount to nothing but the conversation between them and Queequeg implies that Dante was at least managing to keep Ishmael from losing herself completely. There's a similiar deal in Ch. 4 with Dante constantly showing they were worried about Yi Sang and Yi Sang treating them much better afterwards Yinlock fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Dec 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 06:22
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:Nah I think it's just because they're both pretty similar at their core.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 06:26
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Given what the flashback shows I'm pretty sure Ahab knew they'd have to sacrifice someone to get the mermaid that will guide them to the Pallid Whale, and under that foreknowledge Pip makes perfect sense as the intended sacrifice, except in the end Stubbs bit it first.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 06:59
|
|
|
GilliamYaeger posted:I like that the moral of Limbus so far seems to be that it's the little moments of reassurance and care that really matter for a relationship, rather than big sweeping important gestures. Even if you don't think it matters, even if it seems to be pointless, it's all important. tbf there was one of those too, arguably the moment her mentality starts pulling out of the downward spiral is during the boss fight when Dante tells her that neither Ahab nor them get to decide what she is, though I dunno if it would've been as effective if they weren't consistently trying to reach out to her. but yeah I agree
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 08:14
|
|
|
oh yeah forgot to talk about the unlocked EGO, nothing spectacular 9:2 Sinclair: N Sinclair support, lowers his and the enemy's SP and does bad things to them with enough burn. Pearl Rodion: Bind+tremor. Unfortunately has to compete with Rime Shank for the TETH slot. Corrosion is a self-heal and the passive lets her inflict bind with pierce skills so it has some uses if you're not running Dieci. Obsession Ryoshu: The most insanely specific support, allows LCCB Ryoshu to keep a poise stack going with her S3 and only her S3. Also gets a few Charge scraps on hit but only 2 on hit and 2 on crit(3 weight though). Corrosion exchanges 2 charge for 1 poise(max 10) and gives her 5 charge if she kills something. On paper she's supposed to fuel up then UNLEASH THE CRIT BEAST for big damage and get a charge refund, in practice no that's not happening lol. OK overall, the real prize is Obsession Ishmael and her "do whatever you want gamer" effect. 7 weight, instant max charge, full party buff, sp heal, passive that somehow makes r heathcliff even stronger. WAW doesn't gently caress around apparently
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 08:54
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:Mmmm, and it's also very much a story where each Canto is dealing with it's own sinner and problem, but you're not going to get immediate catharsis from everything because it's in the context of the greater story. I like how Yi Sang has changed from Canto IV, and I'm excited to see where Ishmael goes. Sometimes living is about enduring and improving, you know? And I suppose it's much more resonant to watch a person dealing with depression and fear of getting hurt spread his wings and accept the possibility of pain to build new relationships and experience new things than it is to see someone overcome an obsessive self-destructive revenge. Purely because the former is more relatable and the latter has been done so much more. On the subject of comparing the various cantos. It got me thinking and I have come to the conclusion that the reason I was satisfied with the resolution to Canto I and felt wanting with this one is because Canto I is extremely grim, and ends on a similarly bleak note. Whereas this one, while grim from basically the pre-canto side story, ends on a rather more uplifting note. While canto I lets that bleakness and uncertainty narratively tie everything together, this one feels like it ties up a bit too neatly. Yes, the crew is dead, but Ishmael comes out of this pretty well, all things considered. Where Gregor was sitting on his bus seat, staring out of the window with a face full of melancholy, Ishmael stares forward with conviction, smiling. I mean, I'm happy for her and look forward to see how she evolves from here, I guess I feel like I would've liked a bit of a messier resolution, one way or another. How that could have been achieved I cannot rightly say, especially considering the game's narrative consistency as a whole moving forward. Just voicing my feelings, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 09:44
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:Pearl Rodion: Bind+tremor. Unfortunately has to compete with Rime Shank for the TETH slot. Corrosion is a self-heal and the passive lets her inflict bind with pierce skills so it has some uses if you're not running Dieci. Honestly when I looked at this one I saw TETH and immediately went "Ah, too bad, this would have seen play on HE." But Rime Shank is SSS-class gigaEGO so sorry, the bonnet stays in the cupboard.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 09:47
|
|
|
Countzer posted:And I suppose it's much more resonant to watch a person dealing with depression and fear of getting hurt spread his wings and accept the possibility of pain to build new relationships and experience new things than it is to see someone overcome an obsessive self-destructive revenge. Purely because the former is more relatable and the latter has been done so much more. I think that's due to Canto I and Canto II serving more as an introduction to the world than a personal journey for the Sinner like later Cantos, despite still technically focusing on Gregor and Rodion. From Canto III onwards, every Canto ends with the Sinner in focus getting a significant emotional breakthrough and becoming closer to Dante and other Sinners, despite there still being some loose ends (Gubo, Ahab, Damian). Incidentally, I really hope Rodion and Gregor still get something, because in hindsight, they were pretty shortchanged by their own Cantos. Lt. Lizard fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Dec 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 10:02
|
|
|
Lt. Lizard posted:I think that's due to Canto I and Canto II serving more as an introduction to the world than a personal journey for the Sinner like later Cantos, despite still technically focusing on Gregor and Rodion. From Canto III onwards, every Canto ends with the Sinner in focus getting a significant emotional breakthrough and becoming closer to Dante and other Sinners, despite there still being some loose ends (Gumbo, Ahab, Damian). Incidentally, I really hope Rodion and Gregor still get something, because in hindsight, they were pretty shortchanged by their own Cantos.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 10:12
|
|
|
Also I'm almost certain we're getting at least 26 Cantos, if not 33 (the number in the actual Dante's Inferno). One for every Letter of the Alphabet, and it will give all 13 Sinners one "focus" canto each if it's 26.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 10:14
|
|
|
Guys got any tips on defeating ahab, im at the end of the dungeon and ahab kicking my ahass and i need the assistance
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 10:42
|
|
|
I'm still stuck in the middle* with The Middle *of the Canto
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 10:51
|
|
|
lyoid10 posted:Guys got any tips on defeating ahab, im at the end of the dungeon and ahab kicking my ahass and i need the assistance Quackles posted:I'm still stuck in the middle* with The Middle
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 10:54
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmePzJHACto Yi Sang Starbuck, Heathcliff Queequeg. Yi Sang has a fuckin' Final Fantasy Dragoon jump. Ahab Ish confirmed. GilliamYaeger fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Dec 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 11:03
|
|
|
Countzer posted:On the subject of comparing the various cantos. It got me thinking and I have come to the conclusion that the reason I was satisfied with the resolution to Canto I and felt wanting with this one is because Canto I is extremely grim, and ends on a similarly bleak note. Speaking of this, I wonder when we'll get our next Bummer Ending. I'm aiming close and will bet that Heath's Canto is going to be another Hermann win.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 14:30
|
|
|
TeeQueue posted:Honestly when I looked at this one I saw TETH and immediately went "Ah, too bad, this would have seen play on HE." It really is a shame. That bonnet is incredible. GilliamYaeger posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmePzJHACto Yeah, I was gonna comment on that, people kept saying nah Ishmael isn't gonna be Captain Ahab when the entire point of the canto was that Ishmael was significantly stuck on the same path that Ahab took, the target was just a person, not a whale. They even started to mirror each other for a while there, both doing that weird cackle. Sure, Dante managed to pull Ishmael out of that path, but the mirror doesnt care about that, there's a world where Ishmael becomes Ahab.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 14:35
|
|
|
That's the one bit of Ahab I didn't really buy: I get the singular, focused obsession - it's the whole character she is. SO, why does she expend a not-insignificant amount of energy and (more to the point) focus on taunting Ishmael about other stuff? You would think with the Heart right there she would be singularly consumed, and the Limbus Krew would be seen at most as being in the way, but there's a lot of "you never listened/never followed orders" and "the theme of this Canto is we are the same Ismael, you're just like me, so killll meeee" which, idk, felt like it muddied the point a bit before slamming right back into the obsession as soon as Ismael refuses to take the bait and killsteals. I guess it's just Layer Two - below Layer One's I Really Want Whale Dead there's Control-Freak That Takes Insubordination As A Personal Affront but, again, to me it clashes a bit with the whole blind obsession being her whole thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 15:37
|
|
|
KazigluBey posted:That's the one bit of Ahab I didn't really buy: I get the singular, focused obsession - it's the whole character she is. SO, why does she expend a not-insignificant amount of energy and (more to the point) focus on taunting Ishmael about other stuff? You would think with the Heart right there she would be singularly consumed, and the Limbus Krew would be seen at most as being in the way, but there's a lot of "you never listened/never followed orders" and "the theme of this Canto is we are the same Ismael, you're just like me, so killll meeee" which, idk, felt like it muddied the point a bit before slamming right back into the obsession as soon as Ismael refuses to take the bait and killsteals. The whole thing was really about Ahab's legacy. That's why Ishmael refusing to become another Ahab broke her.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 15:55
|
|
|
I'd be interested to know if this is an Ishmael replacing Captain Ahab, like so many of the other identities have been, or if it is an Ishmael, where Captain Ahab was entirely successful in canto V and has replaced Ishmael with the meme of Ahab, as GilliamYaeger put it. We kind of have a precedence in N Corp Sinclair, who isn't based on anyone we encounter, just the goal of Kramer. e: bonus marks if Captain Ahab gets really confused in canto V like Kramer did with N Corp Sinclair. Marluxia fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Dec 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 16:17
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:Yeah, that's my biggest criticism of Limbus Company's story, I think. I understand the intention to drop 3 Cantos at once and show off how that works, but it means Greg and Rodya got shortchanged and their Cantos are all set-up for larger story stuff with very little personal revelations for them. Sinclair's Canto is pretty good despite being from season 1, so I think if I were suggesting an alternative story pace with all that in mind, I'd have had the game release with Gregor and Rodya's Cantos but not Sinclair's, so they both get more focus and complexity. I dunno, there might exposition that take place over the character moment beat but Gregor knowing that even if he struggle, he will have to go back to his Mom? Rodya going depresso mode when it's time to talk about her hometown? Sinclair going "IMMA KILL THIS FECKING HOE"? They might not measure up to Canto 4 or have the proper set-up for it but I think they can hit hard. I mean, have you seen Yuri death? That poo poo go hard.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 16:20
|
|
|
TeeQueue posted:Honestly when I looked at this one I saw TETH and immediately went "Ah, too bad, this would have seen play on HE." Also it's not like she's spoiled for choice on HE, her one option there kind of blows KazigluBey posted:That's the one bit of Ahab I didn't really buy: I get the singular, focused obsession - it's the whole character she is. SO, why does she expend a not-insignificant amount of energy and (more to the point) focus on taunting Ishmael about other stuff? You would think with the Heart right there she would be singularly consumed, and the Limbus Krew would be seen at most as being in the way, but there's a lot of "you never listened/never followed orders" and "the theme of this Canto is we are the same Ismael, you're just like me, so killll meeee" which, idk, felt like it muddied the point a bit before slamming right back into the obsession as soon as Ismael refuses to take the bait and killsteals. There's a couple things going on there. The muddling is kind of the point, Ahab uses her force of personality to force her desires onto others' until their goals are the same. In her twisted view if Ishmael had killed her and then the whale then that would've still counted as Ahab killing the whale, because the entire universe revolves around Ahab. Ishmael would've just been another worthless lesser being who Ahab gave glorious purpose. Ahab spends time taunting Ishmael because even at her lowest point Ishmael never quite bought into Ahab's bullshit entirely and she finds that unacceptable. Everyone's purpose can only be decided by Ahab. She also makes sure to never, ever accept responsibility for the things she pushes others into. She never does her own dirty work and every horrible thing that befalls her crew is either a brave voluntary sacrifice or a plot by that evil whale. At the end there's nobody left to shift the blame to so she goes hard on Ishmael. This is normal narcissist behavior to some extent. Ishmael going past her and finishing the mission shattered her entirely, as the most important being in the universe she literally can't comprehend one of her victims just...ignoring her. And completeing her life's purpose without her. And then calling her just a part of her past, as if she, Ahab, was not the most important part of Ishmael's entire life. Keeping her alive and purposeless was probably the absolute meanest thing Ishmael could have done and it's 100% deserved. Marluxia posted:It really is a shame. That bonnet is incredible. tbf I was thinking Gas Harpoon Ishmael wasn't really possibile but one of the face-swap alt IDs totally is. Kinda weird though, Ishmael already has a harpoon ID also who is alt-Ishmael in this situation. incoming Ishmael Ishmael ID Yinlock fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Dec 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 17:20
|
|
|
So is this trailer the first actual name drop we've had of Cathy yet?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 17:26
|
|
|
PlasticAutomaton posted:So is this trailer the first actual name drop we've had of Cathy yet? iirc she's mentioned by name in N Heathcliff's uptie story. I think she's been namedropped during the main story too somewhere but I can't think of any specifics so maybe not.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 17:27
|
|
|
I wish Ishmael would cut her hair, looks much better in the flashbacks. I don't know why this one aspect of character design annoys me compared to other stuff like Ryoshu's 'funny' initialisms or Dante's stupid clock head but while I otherwise like her character, her gigantic hair cloak annoys the heck out of me
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 18:14
|
|
|
Also someone pointed it out on the reddit. That's Donggrang and Dongbaek in the background of First Mate Yi Sang's picture. No wonder he's actually smiling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 18:19
|
|
|
Something else about Ahab, there's a thing where Ishmael didn't start out in an obsessive spiral and I suspect neither did Ahab. The thing about Whales is they break down and rewrite your personality and sense of self, and the thing about Ahab is she's found a way to fairly effectively counter that by being absolutely resolute and unwavering in her sense of self and not allowing any cracks of doubt to appear that a Whale can exploit. While this might seem like a good thing on the surface, Ahab shows why it's absolutely and completely not. Her absolute firm sense of self allows zero influence from other people, which leads to an increasing spiral of selfishness and her ultimate conviction that she's the only person who actually exists in the world, because for her, she's the only person that matters. That's also why I think she's actually not at very much risk of Distorting, because even at her lowest (Ishmael has killed the whale and left, leaving Ahab literally adrift) I don't think she'd allow Carmen to influence her way of thinking or get any cracks into her sense of self. Hermann successfully recruits her by going along with Ahab's convictions, not trying to alter them in any way. So obviously we don't know much about Ahab's past nor do we need to know it, but I think there's probably a sort of mirror to how the crew of the Pequod end up giving themselves over entirely to her convictions in order to escape becoming Mermaids, where holding on to those convictions (borrowed, in their case) becomes so much a matter of survival that doubt is not something that can be afforded. Reasonable, easy-going people will be willing to give themselves over to extreme ideologies in order to survive, if they think the alternative is worse. I'm not sure Ahab has ever been reasonable or easy-going, but I do think she decided consciously at some point to have absolute faith in herself and reject any attempt by others to 'steer her personal ship' as a survival mechanism for both the pressures of the City and the specific, unique pressures of the Great Lake, and I think that lead her to a very very bad place over the decades.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 19:36
|
|
|
PlasticAutomaton posted:Also someone pointed it out on the reddit. Yi Sang & The Gang Go Fishing
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 20:34
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:Something else about Ahab, there's a thing where Ishmael didn't start out in an obsessive spiral and I suspect neither did Ahab. The thing about Whales is they break down and rewrite your personality and sense of self, and the thing about Ahab is she's found a way to fairly effectively counter that by being absolutely resolute and unwavering in her sense of self and not allowing any cracks of doubt to appear that a Whale can exploit. While this might seem like a good thing on the surface, Ahab shows why it's absolutely and completely not. Her absolute firm sense of self allows zero influence from other people, which leads to an increasing spiral of selfishness and her ultimate conviction that she's the only person who actually exists in the world, because for her, she's the only person that matters. That's also why I think she's actually not at very much risk of Distorting, because even at her lowest (Ishmael has killed the whale and left, leaving Ahab literally adrift) I don't think she'd allow Carmen to influence her way of thinking or get any cracks into her sense of self. Hermann successfully recruits her by going along with Ahab's convictions, not trying to alter them in any way. Yeah it's plausible. Though I think it was less a conscious decision and more the things she initially told herself to assuage her guilt as people kept dying while she chased that fukken whale, which eventually warped into her projecting her own personality onto everyone else by coercion. Ishmael branches off here too, she ultimately rejects Ahab's input but doesn't entirely absolve herself of blame either. And will actually listen to the people who are concerned about her even if they're annoying and have a clock for a face. Yinlock fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Dec 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 20:40
|
|
|
PlasticAutomaton posted:Also someone pointed it out on the reddit. Great catch, that's hilarious. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 20:46
|
|
|
so uh For level 5-30, there are some additional conditions no one mentioned. • Ishmael cannot die until everyone else is dead. She just hangs around at 1 HP. • There is a cool custom animation of Ricardo beating her into the ground when that happens. • And a cutscene with voices after that. • And the game just gives you the win with EX at that point. Okay then. ed: oh and dante has a bomb in their head Quackles fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Dec 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 21:15
|
|
|
Quackles posted:so uh that's how it's supposed to go, that chain of events happens when the boss hits half hp or so e: i didn't know it happened automatically if everyone else died though Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Dec 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 22:20
|
|
|
Finished the canto today (was somewhat busy then I got hit by a nasty flu that left me in pain) and I agree it didn't reach the emotional highs of Canto IV, it absolutely still nailed the plot and Ishmael herself. Also I don't what to know what pre nerf Ahab and the Peqods were cause good lord were they a pain. Also the Milli song this canto is really groovy, love the guitar on the background and the lyrics really hit the theme of the "evil defining",
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 22:39
|
|
|
bonus fun fact: Snagharpoon's voice line changes after Canto 5
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 22:46
|
|
|
Theantero posted:Speaking of this, I wonder when we'll get our next Bummer Ending. I'm aiming close and will bet that Heath's Canto is going to be another Hermann win. I really hope Hong Lu gets his poo poo kicked in. I don't hate him but it'd be immensely satisfying to have that smug prick who acts all ignorant just to flaunt his upbringing/hit nerves get got like that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 23:15
|
|
|
the character understander has logged on
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 23:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 14:13 |
|
|
Yinlock posted:bonus fun fact: Snagharpoon's voice line changes after Canto 5 I was going to ask if that happened to any of the other baseline EGOs after their respective Cantos concluded.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2023 23:43
|
|