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Bar Ran Dun posted:Industrial capital vs finance capital its this. Mega Rich Light Bending Guy is so rich, other Capitalists go to him for more capital.
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# ? Nov 28, 2023 22:17 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 03:56 |
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John DiFool posted:Has anyone ever floated the theory that Dolores Dei was a phasmid or somehow related to one? There’s the theory of her not being human, and her undue influence over people could be explained in part by the phasmids mind control ability. it is my personal bonkers poorly supported hypothesis that dei was an agent of the universe sent to euthanize humanity before it can spread pale beyond the planet. in particular, the phasmid claims that "the cosmos and the stars burning in it are afraid of you," and noid describes her actions as a "strategy" against "a long-dead opponent" and how humanism is designed to "mass produce billions of humans." you know how if you build mice a utopia where they have everything they could ever need and are never in danger they'll explode in population, go insane and turn on each other in horrific violence, and die? like that. dei accelerated human development ("we were supposed to discover this ourselves!") to make as many people as possible, producing more pale, eventually drowning them in their own waste before they could go interplanetary, cauterizing the wound at the source. anyway I'll have a baconator and a small frosty
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# ? Nov 28, 2023 22:58 |
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John DiFool posted:Has anyone ever floated the theory that Dolores Dei was a phasmid or somehow related to one? There’s the theory of her not being human, and her undue influence over people could be explained in part by the phasmids mind control ability. dead gay comedy forums posted:I had to kill some time and welp
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 01:05 |
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Egghead is an undiscovered Innocence, I like that one.
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 02:58 |
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I still think Harry is the next innocence .
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 03:20 |
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Egg Head's not undiscovered, Conceptualization and Inland Empire can peg him as the Innocence of Anodic Dance Music
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 03:21 |
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I still think Harry is the next innocence . Contact Mike hasn't even been born yet!
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 04:27 |
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There's only one Evrart is definitely one where I thought that during my first playthrough but would want to check the evidence on if anyone's ever met both of them.
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 09:15 |
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Easy Leo claims to be a childhood friend of both, and Gaston says he taught them in school, and they don't strike me as the types to be in on any big lies.
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 09:27 |
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plenty of people have met both of them, they've lived in that area seemingly their entire lives. there only being one claire would involve like 50 continuous years of coverup starting as a small child for little to no gain. there's 2
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 09:33 |
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There aren't two, there are three
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 09:34 |
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If you want a conspiracy then you could say there used to be 2 and that's no longer the case, but I think it's probably safe to take that bit at face value
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 09:41 |
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Yeah it does become clearer as you talk to people that it really is two people, but there's certainly a moment early on where it looks like this is a thin fiction to let the same person evade term limits that everyone's playing along with.
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 09:46 |
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Theres only two but actually you are secretly the second one.
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 10:56 |
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I think it's strange that "communism drives back the pale" is almost as far down as the stuff about the moralists stealing technology from the pale that appears in like, concept art and the book when it's made fairly clear by the game that unifying ideology can do that or at least arrest the development of the pale. (Moralism has no real beliefs to do this, Ultraliberalism is worthlessly vapid and fascism... well, fascism also has no real beliefs)
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 11:19 |
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Fascism has strong beliefs about men of Wö.
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 11:21 |
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The beauty of fascism is that it can have whatever strong beliefs you like so long as those beliefs are personal psychosexual hangups that make other people back away from you in public.
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 11:26 |
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the unifying belief of fascism is that problems are caused by people that are different from you and can be fixed by killing those people or at least beating them until they stop being different it's the default ideology that happens when your life sucks and you're angry but you're too stupid to figure out why
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 11:38 |
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cock hero flux posted:plenty of people have met both of them, they've lived in that area seemingly their entire lives. there only being one claire would involve like 50 continuous years of coverup starting as a small child for little to no gain. there's 2 Ah yes, the reverse Prestige
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 11:42 |
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I'm curious if Evrart works out how the murder happened after you tell him the murder weapon was a gun. I know it was Edgar who interacted with The Deserter but presumably Evrart also knew about him (and he never leaves his shipping container so he wouldn't ever be in the line of fire himself).
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# ? Nov 29, 2023 19:21 |
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cock hero flux posted:it's not a common experience, but it's a common desire. For people with a lot of regrets, who can't take being themselves anymore. You don't want to kill yourself, you don't really want to be dead, but you want to stop being you. "I don't want to be this type of animal anymore."
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# ? Nov 30, 2023 01:38 |
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I'm curious if Evrart works out how the murder happened after you tell him the murder weapon was a gun. I know it was Edgar who interacted with The Deserter but presumably Evrart also knew about him (and he never leaves his shipping container so he wouldn't ever be in the line of fire himself). It wouldn't surprise me. But it also wouldn't surprise me if he figured, correctly, it wouldn't meaningfully change the outcome in the immediate future. he might worry about the RCM getting some potential ties back to him on the brothers having used the Deserter as an assassin, but at that point they have much bigger things to worry about. I still get the vibe that Disco Elysium is presenting a world that 'runs' on the logic and mechanics of a grand strategy game, like Civilization or a Paradox game, with figures like the Innocence and royalty being their Great People and leaders being the major figures that are a centrepiece of that game as Great Man History made manifest. There's a lot to be said on the political dimensions and deconstruction of that, but critics of Dolores Dei get pretty specific about how she acts more like she's playing a game than ruling a nation, with the repeated expeditions into the Pale until they discovered an uninhabited isola seeming like someone trying to metagame and make progress they shouldn't 'know' about by brute-forcing it. Very much vibes of something veteran players of those games should understand. (the Philipean kings meanwhile have very Crusader Kings vibes)
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# ? Nov 30, 2023 05:57 |
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I still get the vibe that Disco Elysium is presenting a world that 'runs' on the logic and mechanics of a grand strategy game, like Civilization or a Paradox game, with figures like the Innocence and royalty being their Great People and leaders being the major figures that are a centrepiece of that game as Great Man History made manifest. There's a lot to be said on the political dimensions and deconstruction of that, but critics of Dolores Dei get pretty specific about how she acts more like she's playing a game than ruling a nation, with the repeated expeditions into the Pale until they discovered an uninhabited isola seeming like someone trying to metagame and make progress they shouldn't 'know' about by brute-forcing it. Very much vibes of something veteran players of those games should understand. (the Philipean kings meanwhile have very Crusader Kings vibes) The primary reason is that I see Moralintern as a bitter reaction to Dolores Dei's tragic fate rather than a continuation of her life's work. We are told that she had launched bold exploratory forays, enacted sweeping reforms, and inspired religious loyalty in her followers despite being a force of secularism (or perhaps because of it; one should have no other gods, after all). This is a far cry from latter-day Moralitern's glacial speed, emphasis on stability, and total lack of belief in anything. The last part is particularly important, because it implies that it wasn't Dolores Dei's actions that accelerated the advance of the pale, but rather her untimely death. Much like our protagonist, billions of people found themselves unable to deal with the loss of the woman who was the whole world to them. They chose to embrace oblivion, and the pale is a result of their choice. Rogue AI Goddess fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Nov 30, 2023 |
# ? Nov 30, 2023 14:10 |
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Melancholy. Especially Harry.
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# ? Nov 30, 2023 14:43 |
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Also it's very easy to forget the depressed Mum torturing her daughter because she feels like she has no choice.
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# ? Nov 30, 2023 15:17 |
Ghost Leviathan posted:It wouldn't surprise me. But it also wouldn't surprise me if he figured, correctly, it wouldn't meaningfully change the outcome in the immediate future. he might worry about the RCM getting some potential ties back to him on the brothers having used the Deserter as an assassin, but at that point they have much bigger things to worry about. inframaterialism is a late-game belief civic that grants cities bonuses to production, commerce, and health scaling off surplus happiness
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# ? Nov 30, 2023 16:11 |
Rogue AI Goddess posted:Not just her critics - I'm Dolores Dei's number one fan, and her being a grand strategy/4X player with a penchant for technological slingshots is a contributing factor to that, if a secondary one. And so, in the novel A Sacred and Terrible Air, there is an Innocence of nihilism. The indecision is over and oblivion is actively embraced. The Pale consumes all. In short, I think you're on to something, but there are some more pieces to the puzzle to consider.
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# ? Nov 30, 2023 18:40 |
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On that note, I'm inclined to see the book as what would happen if the events of Disco Elysium did not occur. Or at least played out in the worst possible way.
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# ? Dec 1, 2023 19:06 |
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I also have a hard time pitching it because I really don't want to spoil the premise of what skills actually do, that's such a wonderful surprise if you run into it blind. Letting your friends play Disco is such a weird way validate your bias on people sometimes. My brother was disappeared by coalition warship Archer and at no point in that I was surprised
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# ? Dec 1, 2023 21:41 |
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Hot take: Disco Elysium is a video game and none of the choices the player makes in it are reflective on who they are as a person.
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# ? Dec 1, 2023 22:09 |
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Eiba posted:And so, in the novel A Sacred and Terrible Air, there is an Innocence of nihilism. The indecision is over and oblivion is actively embraced. The Pale consumes all. I think it's a cool lit analysis point there. The book was being written for a while (a couple of years iirc) and released a good bunch of years before Disco. Our man Bob Kurvitz was really working with his own poo poo in writing struggles. The big moment in that sense of dealing with the world, imho, is with Zigi. Just in case somebody missed the reference, Ignus Nilsen is Trotsky down to the whole "hidden in a shack in Siberia for some nice months". What makes him really good as a character, imho, is that Kurvitz stalinized him instead of the usual narrative, because if Trotsky had the helm of the revolution, the axe would have swung anyway if not harder - but apologies that's a discussion for cspam Given what he said about himself, Zigi is the character that, at least to my eyes, most evokes Kurvitz; what the man says about using drugs, anarchism, temperament etc. When Zigi confronts Nilsen about the Revolution, this is Kurvitz having his own auto-da-fé in relation to communism. He treats the matter as a subjective moral question, dumping blame and responsibility almost all on Nilsen -- which is a weak literary argument but not necessarily a bad device -- yet Nilsen doesn't seem to be affected by the Pale; in fact, he seems able to repel it Sacred and Terrible Air posted:But Ignus doesn’t listen. “I said terrible things, yes! I stood on a white horse, in a blizzard, and gave speeches. In the mountains, on the construction site… I swung my sword, with silver sunbeams on the hilt. And all around me fluttered white flags, crests of crowned horns made with silver thread, a pentagon between the prongs of the horns, the branches raised to heaven. Everyone who came here with me became happy, Zigi! Communism is powerful! Believe in Communism, it’s a burst of enthusiasm! I promise! It’s beautiful when you believe in a person, but without it…!” What does that has to do with Ambrosius? Kurvitz was working through some seriously depressive poo poo because none of his writing in DE has this same charge. I think most younger communists who had their struggles with depression and despair had to deal with a moment of personal resolution with the worldview, or stay in a very bleak psychological state of "humanity is doomed", especially if you were an Estonian squatter in the youth. It's the writing of a man who is finding his way to faith, in a way. In DE, the writing has evolved incredibly; there is a lot more humor and on point to make the emotional beats much better. The communist vision quest is almost the complementary opposite of Zigi's indictment. It's kinda funny to notice; after reading the book and mulling on it for a while, I couldn't help but think that Kurvitz would write something really different nowadays, at least in regards with the teleology of the world.
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# ? Dec 1, 2023 22:32 |
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:
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# ? Dec 1, 2023 23:13 |
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self-reporting as people who made the bad choices, bold
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# ? Dec 2, 2023 01:22 |
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I was a drunken hobo arty-farty communist. Also in the game.
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# ? Dec 2, 2023 01:47 |
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goblin week posted:Letting your friends play Disco is such a weird way validate your bias on people sometimes. My brother was disappeared by coalition warship Archer and at no point in that I was surprised My brother did the exact same thing...he was a math/econ major (so he could maximize his access to capital) and works at Meta
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# ? Dec 2, 2023 22:25 |
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General Battuta posted:My brother did the exact same thing...he was a math/econ major (so he could maximize his access to capital) and works at Meta the system works
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# ? Dec 3, 2023 03:25 |
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:Hot take: Disco Elysium is a video game and none of the choices the player makes in it are reflective on who they are as a person. I do love how the game immediately and viciously derides the player for trying to sleep with the first woman they see. You're right, but when the game calls you out on what would be IRL behavior, it does feel like someone's holding up a mirror to what kind of amoral/chaotic behavior other games reward.
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# ? Dec 3, 2023 04:30 |
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And then rewards almost every single instance of chaotic behaviour that follows.
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# ? Dec 3, 2023 04:59 |
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CatstropheWaitress posted:I do love how the game immediately and viciously derides the player for trying to sleep with the first woman they see. You're right, but when the game calls you out on what would be IRL behavior, it does feel like someone's holding up a mirror to what kind of amoral/chaotic behavior other games reward. Most people who hit on the 1st woman in the game don't hit on every woman they meet IRL (or any women) because clicking a dialogue option is way easier and consequence-free than saying that poo poo out loud In the same way that 99.99% of the players who went out of their way to shoot a kid haven't done so irl
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# ? Dec 3, 2023 05:04 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 03:56 |
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I mean, it's obviously a reflection on you as a person. It's not like someone else is making the choices or choosing where Harry walks. seems a real waste to take a medium where the audience must actively participate and pretend the audience doesn't matter. It's just that, like most things in life, it may not reflect on you in a way which is insightful, reliable, or readily deciphered. it's pixels, after all.
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# ? Dec 3, 2023 05:11 |