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euphronius posted:Eisenhorn et Al is “old “ Time does not exist as you know it.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:08
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euphronius posted:Eisenhorn et Al is “old “ Not in Xenos  Black Griffon posted:Time does not exist as you know it. This is the joke I wanted to make but you got it first so I had to go with the backup option.
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Dec 5, 2023 00:34
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Kylaer posted:I thought they already gave this, and it's in February? Unless I've become unstuck in space-time and am remembering the future. We know it from Amazon and yeah it's end of January beginning of February time frame.
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Dec 5, 2023 00:50
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Kylaer posted:You don't need to read the bonus content for that though, it's stated outright in the book too. IIRC it's in one of the parts from the perspective of the Chaos agent, talking about how easy recruitment is. The Imperium is not cool and good. Yeah, Rath has a good handle on how the Imperium seeds its own destruction by being fascist and ableist pieces of poo poo. Fall of Cadia depicts just how dumb that is because the single most effective Kasrkin portrayed in the entire book, Glave, has a minor birth defect that doesn't allow him to use a gun with a trigger guard. But Glave would never have been permitted to join a military academy because of that birth defect were it not for other bad parts of the Imperium (aristocracy, nepotism) happening to cancel out the unnecessarily ableist recruitment standards.
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Dec 5, 2023 00:57
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:Yeah, Astartes are superhumanly fast, they're like Jedi in speed and agility (and a lot of their hero types use power weapons, which are basically lightsabers) but built and armored like a tank. I don't recall that many visual things (games or animated) that really show that well, they tend to look more plodding or be a relatively generic enemy. I've always liked the mix of precision and brutality. The space marines are basically an army of 80s action heroes. So the visual things that would show their superhuman strength speed and agility would be 80s action movies
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Dec 5, 2023 03:59
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Grilled Beef posted:The space marines are basically an army of 80s action heroes. I feel like astartes or at least custodes fight like omni-man mixed with the doom slayer, very very brutally and quick but extreamly utiltarianly. by the time custodian dane has pushed your head into your own ribcage, a second later he has killed most of your squad and is onto the next. outside the night lords and some other chaos/blood angels related captures, they arnt torturing you to death on the field, you die badly, but you die quick against them or custodes.
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Dec 5, 2023 04:06
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Unfortunately the way that fluff describes Astartes and the way they're depicted in motion rarely add up. Not helped by the way most fan animations like to pan over their lovingly modeled marines striking cool poses rather than being fast and ruthlessly efficient. I love Richard Boylan's Helsreach and Blood Angels animations but they're way more focused on making a cool looking scene than the Astartes film's "kill at maximum efficiency" ethos.
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Dec 5, 2023 04:39
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Yeah, the 'Heroism' of Astartes is missing the point. They're extremely efficient machines at taking Troops and making them into Gibs, and that's all. Even their attempts at 'Heroism' should be inhuman or weird by standard Homo standards.
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Dec 5, 2023 05:00
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That Astartes video did a pretty boss job of showing Marines as agile murder organisms. It also made sure everybody on-screen was doing something, which helps convey urgency. Like that oft GIF'd scene where the Inquisitior turns features a grab, punch, and rapid-fire bolters before the viewer has processed the change in tone.
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Dec 5, 2023 05:04
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I think the scene that best exemplifies it is during the boarding sequence where a marine opens a door and fires three shots in half a second. You know three (or more) people just died in an instant and the marine had them zeroed the instant the door started to open. Just inhuman speed and precision.
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Dec 5, 2023 05:20
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah that sounds about right. Chaos is kinda the only other big game in town since like any other system outside imperial authoriterian fasch technofeudalism is dead and forgotten. even if some rebel group discovers "demokrasy" or or Socialismsky" something from some tomes, some chaos poo poo will worm its way in and struggle session everyone else out or absorb it. like alot of chaos cultists just strike me who as normal folks who broke from whatever hell job they had and either found solace/less pain with the hell monster OR the idea of "at least i get to flay my boss alive before i get shot down by the PDF" or "at least i dont feel my super cancer" or "maybe one of those demons will have sex with me" etc. This discussion has two big questions pop up front and center in my brain. 1) Is it only frontier/fortress worlds that are like that? (I know that in a lot of Guard novels the world's they sent to that aren't active warzones aren't hellholes) 2) Would a Chaos world "Fall" to the Imperium? Not in the sense of an assault from the Imperium, but rather that deep in the underhive of a Chaos aligned world, a cult appears that worships the emperor and basically manages to trigger a reverse Chaos uprising. I know that Gav Thorpe (of all people) played with the idea in The First Wall, but that was on a smaller scale. This is probably something that's more easily explored in "Modern" 40k given that Chaos hold a LOT more worlds outside the Warp. It's stupid, but it put in my head the idea of a group of Marines and hangers on from Traitor Legions that decided that Lorgar's OG work was right and they now follow the Emperor. Also, been reading the Word Bearer's Omnibus. I can see how people like it, but it feels to me like reading a story about an Evil PC in an RPG. Also, kinda threw me that the Imperium sent a reclimation fleet to the planet that is the setting, but no Marine chapter's decided to show up. I thought even a wiff of a CSM brought chapters flying to kill their traitor "brothers".
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Dec 5, 2023 05:34
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Finally got around to reading Harrowmaster, and it's very much what I want out of my beloved idiot XX Legion boys.
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Dec 5, 2023 08:36
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Hamelekim posted:I just watched an interview with Cavill and he said he's been into Warhammer 40k since he was 10 years old, which is pretty cool. If anyone is going to bring the fiction to live action 40k it's going to be him. I want it to be good but I can't help but feel like we're placing a lot of faith in Cavill being the right kind of 40k fanboy. There's a whole lot of people who have been into the setting since they were ten years old who have managed to miss the point all that time. What if his take is the Imperium being the good guys?
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Dec 5, 2023 08:48
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Roller Coast Guard posted:I want it to be good but I can't help but feel like we're placing a lot of faith in Cavill being the right kind of 40k fanboy. There's a whole lot of people who have been into the setting since they were ten years old who have managed to miss the point all that time. What if his take is the Imperium being the good guys? No way (  )
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Dec 5, 2023 08:56
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah that sounds about right. Chaos is kinda the only other big game in town since like any other system outside imperial authoriterian fasch technofeudalism is dead and forgotten. even if some rebel group discovers "demokrasy" or or Socialismsky" something from some tomes, some chaos poo poo will worm its way in and struggle session everyone else out or absorb it. like alot of chaos cultists just strike me who as normal folks who broke from whatever hell job they had and either found solace/less pain with the hell monster OR the idea of "at least i get to flay my boss alive before i get shot down by the PDF" or "at least i dont feel my super cancer" or "maybe one of those demons will have sex with me" etc. I like to apply the cold war analogy where most of humanity is dominated by two main ideological powers, but where there are others just trying to exist without getting crushed between them. Even if all you're doing is petitioning the Imperial governor for more food rations because your family is starving, there's a high chance your protest will be viewed through a lens of maximum Reds Under The Bed turboparanoia, and they'll label you a heretic cultist and call for the Adepta Sororitas to torch your settlement down.
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Dec 5, 2023 09:20
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For top tier Astartes fighting done right in prose, Mathew Ferrers Urdesh duology are excellent.
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Dec 5, 2023 10:45
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Deptfordx posted:For top tier Astartes fighting done right in prose, Mathew Ferrers Urdesh duology are excellent. Seconded. Big fan of the almost gunkata-esque way they're fighting, where it's super fast and all about finding the angle for that one perfect shot.
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Dec 5, 2023 11:48
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Roller Coast Guard posted:I like to apply the cold war analogy where most of humanity is dominated by two main ideological powers, but where there are others just trying to exist without getting crushed between them. Even if all you're doing is petitioning the Imperial governor for more food rations because your family is starving, there's a high chance your protest will be viewed through a lens of maximum Reds Under The Bed turboparanoia, and they'll label you a heretic cultist and call for the Adepta Sororitas to torch your settlement down. Exactly. The Imperium causes a lot of harm to itself reacting to every deviation from absolute obedience with maximum violence. There's a bit in Vaults of Terra where an Inquisition character wonders if the alleged cultist leader they're chasing might be "just" a social revolutionary instead of a heretic, so other types of challenge to the government are definitely known to exist. Of course, the price of letting just one heavy-hitter Chaos agent slip through can be as high as "entire planet gets dragged into the warp and billions of innocent souls get devoured in the most awful way imaginable by literal daemons" as occurs in the opening of Rites of Passage. It's a grim, dark future and there is only war  Calax posted:This discussion has two big questions pop up front and center in my brain. For all of your points, the answer is that the 40K setting is really, really big, which in my opinion is one of its strengths - there's room in the galaxy for everything. Some planets, various ones visited in Eisenhorn etc, are quite nice and living there is generally pleasant. There are also planets where every form of misery occurs - forge worlds where everyone labors 100 hours a week manufacturing things, hive worlds where you might live your entire fifty-year lifespan without seeing the sky or leaving the same colossal building, feral worlds where the lifestyle is literally "medieval peasant but occasionally you get conscripted and dragged to another planet to die fighting Orks." Chaos worlds rejoining the Imperium, traitor Marines turning against Chaos? Sure, the setting is big enough for these to happen, somewhere, somehow. It would be difficult because Chaos gets its hooks into people on a physical level with all kinds of mutations as well as a mental/spiritual level, and Chaos is as vicious or moreso at dealing with rejection than the Imperium. But if you have an idea you can run with it, there's room for everything.
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Dec 5, 2023 12:21
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Kylaer posted:Chaos worlds rejoining the Imperium, traitor Marines turning against Chaos? Sure, the setting is big enough for these to happen, somewhere, somehow. In the Gaunt's Ghost books, there's a planet - Urdesh - that has changed hands between Chaos and Imperial at least once. I was under the impression that it happened a couple of times in modern times, but everything I can find online suggests that it initially declared for the Warmaster during the Heresy, then was purged of heretek influence afterwards. In 40K proper it was captured again during the Sabbat crusade, then retaken 8 or so years later.
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Dec 5, 2023 12:51
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I think it's been established enough that in the event of a reverse chaos rising, if the newly freed citizens tried to rejoin the imperium instead of being independent they would be liquidated by the inquisition and new colonists shipped in to replace them though. It's a big universe but the Imperium is always going to trend towards the harshest and least understanding option as an institution, even if individual actors might think more pragmatically within it.
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Dec 5, 2023 12:53
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Sharkopath posted:I think it's been established enough that in the event of a reverse chaos rising, if the newly freed citizens tried to rejoin the imperium instead of being independent they would be liquidated by the inquisition and new colonists shipped in to replace them though. It's a big universe but the Imperium is always going to trend towards the harshest and least understanding option as an institution, even if individual actors might think more pragmatically within it. In the case of Urdesh, it was an important forge-world in the middle of contested Crusade space, the Imperium couldn't afford to fully purge the planet after retaking it, for multiple reasons. Gereon though, guarantee any survivors were quietly rounded up and disappeared.
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Dec 5, 2023 13:06
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:In the Gaunt's Ghost books, there's a planet - Urdesh - that has changed hands between Chaos and Imperial at least once. I was under the impression that it happened a couple of times in modern times, but everything I can find online suggests that it initially declared for the Warmaster during the Heresy, then was purged of heretek influence afterwards. In 40K proper it was captured again during the Sabbat crusade, then retaken 8 or so years later. In Warmaster and Anarch, it's made clear a lot of the Urdeshi simply view the Imperium and Chaos as two different colonisers. In fact there's religious frescos mentioned in the books (or possibly the Urdesh series?) that could be interpreted as depicting either aspects of the Emperor or the Chaos Gods, depending on who's viewing them and interpretation. I love what Abnett has done with the Chaos societies in the Sabbat books, as a really very different society but still a society.
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Dec 5, 2023 13:23
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It helps that the Sabbat world cults have a very unique view of religion compared to most traitor forces. It's less a case of tearing down false idols and more that they're a chaos twisted version of the Cult Imperialis where they worship the Emperor in their own way as part of the greater warp pantheon.
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Dec 5, 2023 13:49
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Urdesh has changed hands several times without the population being entirely purged by either side.
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Dec 5, 2023 14:36
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habeasdorkus posted:Urdesh has changed hands several times without the population being entirely purged by either side. See, this was my impression from the books but I can't find the supporting quotes, it's annoying.
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Dec 5, 2023 14:56
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Today I read another short story, Adrian Southin's Path of Grief. A neat tale of the Sam Hainn riders battling the tyranids, I liked the descriptions of their maneuverability and how a singing spear gets quite used a lot. Would like to read more of Southins Work but this seems like their only 40k story.
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Dec 5, 2023 15:16
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:See, this was my impression from the books but I can't find the supporting quotes, it's annoying. There's a couple of remarks about it in the newer Sabbat World Crusade lore book, even I think the first iteration made mention of it. But the updated one obviously expands upon Urdesh's role a lot since it came out with Anarch. Sharkopath posted:Today I read another short story, Adrian Southin's Path of Grief. A neat tale of the Sam Hainn riders battling the tyranids, I liked the descriptions of their maneuverability and how a singing spear gets quite used a lot. Would like to read more of Southins Work but this seems like their only 40k story. Short stories like those tend to be trials for new authors so hopefully they'll get a chance to write something longer. But probably not Eldar related if Gav has anything to say about it.
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Dec 5, 2023 15:56
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Cooked Auto posted:There's a couple of remarks about it in the newer Sabbat World Crusade lore book, even I think the first iteration made mention of it. But the updated one obviously expands upon Urdesh's role a lot since it came out with Anarch. Ah hah, that'd do it. I'd check my copy but all my books are in boxes rn
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Dec 5, 2023 16:02
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Cooked Auto posted:There's a couple of remarks about it in the newer Sabbat World Crusade lore book, even I think the first iteration made mention of it. But the updated one obviously expands upon Urdesh's role a lot since it came out with Anarch. Does Gav actually stop new writers from doing eldar stories? That would be pretty sad. I feel like they're a super underserved faction and new blood shedding new light on them might do good.
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Dec 5, 2023 16:33
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Speaking of underserved factions where the gently caress are my Votann books?!?!
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Dec 5, 2023 16:34
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Sharkopath posted:Does Gav actually stop new writers from doing eldar stories? That would be pretty sad. I feel like they're a super underserved faction and new blood shedding new light on them might do good. There's rumors going around about this, basically any new author who wants to write eldar stories, must first duel Thorpe to prove their might. And Gav may be a lousy writer, but apparently is very very good with knives.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:36
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Inspector_666 posted:Speaking of underserved factions where the gently caress are my Votann books?!?! This is really baffling, it's been a year and a half. Any author could have written a full novel by now, even if they had learned about the LoV at the same time as everyone else. Guy Haley could have written three or four.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:37
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Angry Lobster posted:There's rumors going around about this, basically any new author who wants to write eldar stories, must first duel Thorpe to prove their might. And Gav may be a lousy writer, but apparently is very very good with knives. 3 dead, 4 maimed for life. Bear that in mind next time BL calls for Open Submissions.
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Dec 5, 2023 19:25
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Roller Coast Guard posted:I like to apply the cold war analogy where most of humanity is dominated by two main ideological powers, but where there are others just trying to exist without getting crushed between them. Even if all you're doing is petitioning the Imperial governor for more food rations because your family is starving, there's a high chance your protest will be viewed through a lens of maximum Reds Under The Bed turboparanoia, and they'll label you a heretic cultist and call for the Adepta Sororitas to torch your settlement down. yeah. i think it kinda depends on the planet and the govenor and the sisters and etc. like some sisters would do it without a thought, others wouldnt. a lovely king posted:In Warmaster and Anarch, it's made clear a lot of the Urdeshi simply view the Imperium and Chaos as two different colonisers. In fact there's religious frescos mentioned in the books (or possibly the Urdesh series?) that could be interpreted as depicting either aspects of the Emperor or the Chaos Gods, depending on who's viewing them and interpretation. yeah, its why i like alot of the darktide back story. the chaos guys are all Guard regements who basicaly got sent blind into fights with chaos for decades and some eventually just broke because come on. the cultists are just underhivers who got hosed by water guilds. also out of power family backing them as gently caress you to the ruling family Arc Hammer posted:It helps that the Sabbat world cults have a very unique view of religion compared to most traitor forces. It's less a case of tearing down false idols and more that they're a chaos twisted version of the Cult Imperialis where they worship the Emperor in their own way as part of the greater warp pantheon. yeah more Roman empire version of chaos then hardlide chaos.
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Dec 5, 2023 21:12
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a lovely king posted:In Warmaster and Anarch, it's made clear a lot of the Urdeshi simply view the Imperium and Chaos as two different colonisers. Even back in Traitor General, there’s the Nightgane on Gereon who initially view the Imperium as worse because they’re the old enemy, whereas Chaos hasn’t done anything to them (yet).
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Dec 5, 2023 23:35
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NihilCredo posted:This is really baffling, it's been a year and a half. Any author could have written a full novel by now, even if they had learned about the LoV at the same time as everyone else. Guy Haley could have written three or four. It's the same with "Modern" 40k. There aren't that many actual books or stories set in M42. You'd think more stories would feature Primaris marines and the newer status quo's.
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Dec 6, 2023 02:38
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Man, I have gone off on it before but the Primaris/Primarchs returning just kinda lacks the setting oomph that I feel like you get with new chaos baddies or new xenos baddies. Like when chaos gets something new/a big bad returns the imperium is like  and there's a tangible sense of dread. Angron/a daemon primarch returns and an entire half of the galaxy collectively shits their pants (and like I get it)Roboute Gulliman, the Primarch back from the brink of death, armed with the loving Emperors sword comes back and from what I can tell there's just like a collective shrug from CSM or chaos forces to both him and basically the chapters worth of Space Marines +1.
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Dec 6, 2023 03:25
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Both loyalist primarchs are ripe for "What the gently caress I thought you were dead" "I lived, bitch" moments and there's from what I can tell they dont really exist.
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Dec 6, 2023 03:31
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Telsa Cola posted:Both loyalist primarchs are ripe for "What the gently caress I thought you were dead" "I lived, bitch" moments and there's from what I can tell they dont really exist. The Lion gets a few of these moments in his book. I think the big issue is that the Demon Primarchs are presented as "Shows up, murders entire planet solo, Leaves" because they're demonically empowered. The Loyalist primarchs don't really have any stories like that. Demons in general are presented as "A single greater Daemon can enslave an entire world" and we usually view things from the perspective of somebody trying to prevent that action. Imagine a book from the perspective of the Black Legion during the Ultramar Campaign. They're launching a campaign to snuff out the last bastion of resistance against the Dark Gods, all the Omens are saying that if they don't do it in time, then something evil will appear. They make their final assault on the Ultramarines HQ, and just before the Black Legion is able to achieve victory, The stasis tube containing one of the last son's of the Great Enemy opens. Brother Blood Rage leaps to try to take the initiative, but is bisected by a Power Sword as Roboute Guilliman raised himself from within the Tube and looked around with rage in his eyes.
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Dec 6, 2023 04:04
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Calax posted:The Lion gets a few of these moments in his book. I think the big issue is that the Demon Primarchs are presented as "Shows up, murders entire planet solo, Leaves" because they're demonically empowered. The Loyalist primarchs don't really have any stories like that. Demons in general are presented as "A single greater Daemon can enslave an entire world" and we usually view things from the perspective of somebody trying to prevent that action. Ill check out the Lion book. In the 10 thousand years since the heresy, loyalist primarchs have been heavily mythologized and revered beyond the already crazy levels they were during the crusade. In 40k, the average person/guardsman shits their pants when they see a space marine. A loyalist primarch showing up to counter chaos forces should result in cultists loving falling to the ground and weeping for forgiveness because a demigod, a living representation of the False Emperors vengenance or whatever just showed up to push their poo poo in and show that yes, the Emperor is watching, and yes, he is quite angry with you. Loyalist Primarchs may not be able to cleanse a planet single handly like a Daemon primarch can, but they absolutely can gently caress up a warfront single handly. There definitely should be things like "The Black Legion deployed to Planet X to support the sector wide warfront but then immediately withdrew because Roboute was there, and was angry" or "We boarded this ship but then The Lion threw our dreadnought through the ship hull and into space so yeah, we left because gently caress that". And yeah that would be a dope scene. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Dec 6, 2023 |
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Dec 6, 2023 04:19
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