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There was one thing that struck me as odd during the last episode. Dot is desperate to get her hands on some high caliber firearms ASAP, even going so far as trying to charm the gun shop clerk in order to bypass the mandatory wait period. Wasn't it established early on in the first episode that her mother-in-law is a right-wing 2nd amendment fanatic that makes her family take Christmas card photos holding giant assault rifles? I get that there's plenty of reasons why she might want to avoid trying to borrow, "borrow", or steal Lorraine's guns, but it honestly seems like a plothole to not mention them at all. WAYNE: Well hun, if you wanted to get your hands on some weapons we could always talk to my mom... DOT: No! I mean...we don't need to bother her, right? Anyways, we should have our own, don't ya think? It's like the main character googling "Elephant rental" when her mother in law owns an elephant zoo. Nobody's even going to bring up the family elephant??
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Dec 5, 2023 16:40
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It's not a plot hole at all when it's painfully obvious that she doesn't own or use those small calibre sporting rifles for anything. They're just props some local firearm manufacture has the local politician promote, made obvious with how they're brought in and fitted to the portrait. She has a security detail, not a collection of colourful sport rifles. Dot is trying to convince her mother-in-law that she's not a danger that requires a security detail, she's hiding her dangerous past from her.
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Dec 5, 2023 16:59
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Jehde posted:It's not a plot hole at all when it's painfully obvious that she doesn't own or use those small calibre sporting rifles for anything. They're just props some local firearm manufacture has the local politician promote, made obvious with how they're brought in and fitted to the portrait. Yeah, agree with this, even without the first paragraph. Doesn't need to be explicitly stated to hit home that approaching her MIL for such a VERY out-of-character request would be something that she would like to avoid, especially since she believes there's an easier path in just acquiring them herself.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:05
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It also works well for a scene where Dot is a typical american that has no idea how gun laws work, and lets her rattle off a bunch of video game guns to make dorks that play call of duty think "oh she's for real!!" And the husband being sobered with a "wait it costs how much to buy a gun??" Still avoiding how serious his wife is getting about protecting their family from danger. It's a fun Fargo scene.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:22
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Jehde posted:It's not a plot hole at all when it's painfully obvious that she doesn't own or use those small calibre sporting rifles for anything. They're just props some local firearm manufacture has the local politician promote, made obvious with how they're brought in and fitted to the portrait. I agree that it's clear that Dot wouldn't want to touch that, but what about Wayne? Wouldn't it be a quick, easy connection for him? Wife wants guns, mother has guns, why not ask mother for guns? His character has already been established as one who goes to him mom for help with things above his paygrade. Like I said, it's a totally ignorable detail that honestly didn't even occur to me until after watching the episode, but it feels like a missed connection that could have been assuaged in 2 lines of dialogue. Chekhov's Assault Rifles gone untouched, if you will.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:29
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Jehde posted:It also works well for a scene where Dot is a typical american that has no idea how gun laws work In fairness to Dot, there is no federal waiting period and few states have them. I was shocked to find that Minnesota was one of them.
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Dec 5, 2023 20:45
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The community she ran from seems like the type to not enforce those restrictions either.
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Dec 5, 2023 21:20
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I'm trying to figure out if there's a clever reason behind "Dot Lyon" (dot line) and coming up short. Best I got is the letter A from morse code, so I think I may be staring too hard at a coincidence.  I do agree with the Wizard of Oz bit to be clear, just wondering if there's anything else there. It's fun to go tinfoil sometimes!
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Dec 6, 2023 00:44
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Onomarchus posted:VERY nice sly little touch (assuming it's intentional...)* [possible spoilers in link for a future character arc]: the chronologically first time you see Ole Munch he's wearing a brown sack over his head. I like this read. Munch is a walking vessel of sin the same way Oogie is big a big ol' sack of bugs. What happens when he comes unravelled?
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Dec 6, 2023 05:50
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Man, this season is REALLY delivering so far, great episode. "Pancakes."timp posted:I agree that it's clear that Dot wouldn't want to touch that, but what about Wayne? Wouldn't it be a quick, easy connection for him? Wife wants guns, mother has guns, why not ask mother for guns? His character has already been established as one who goes to him mom for help with things above his paygrade. From what I recall the guns themselves weren't even something that Lorraine actually has or cares about, she said that "this year" was about projecting strength, so I'm pretty sure they're just straight up props or just something brought in for the photoshoot and then taken away, not that she has her own personal arsenal in the mansion or anything. I do expect the photo itself and Dot holding a gun is going to end up having some relevance though. Also just when I thought Lorraine couldn't be worse we find out in the latest episode that her (most recent) wealth is based on being a parasite collecting debt even credit companies have given up on. There's something wonderfully meta about Jon Hamm getting to deliver a line about betas and alphas given how often people completely missed the point and would refer to Don Draper as an "alpha male" as opposed to a desperately insecure, hosed up dude. Plus the shot of him riding away into the sunrise(?) like he was some old timey Western hero as opposed to the type of crimelord that the hero in those films would end up having to kill.
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Dec 6, 2023 08:44
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Every time I see the name Munch I keep thinking I missed a Richard Belzer cameo.
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Dec 6, 2023 09:11
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loving HELL that opening scene  so loving tense and well-paced and shot
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Dec 6, 2023 10:26
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Jerusalem posted:Man, this season is REALLY delivering so far, great episode. "Pancakes." Oh I though it was clearly a performative photo-op like you see chuds doing  Lorraine might even think they're gross or for rednecks or something.
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Dec 6, 2023 12:10
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I'm sensing a theme. Tillman insists he has "a debt unpaid." Mrs. Lyon (the elder) made her fortune by taking over other people's financial debts after they defaulted. Munch made his fortune by taking over other people's spiritual debts after they "defaulted."
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Dec 6, 2023 12:37
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Fun episode. Only real problems are Dot failing to get a grip on that gun and emptying the whole mag into the wall and redneck guy saying "gently caress it" before trying to shoot. It's all forgivable as "heat of the moment" stuff but when I'm watching a TV show these things stick out to me. Loved all the speeches. The debt speech, the king speech, and the waste of skin speech. Fargo writing is top notch tonight!
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Dec 6, 2023 12:40
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I just love watching that tiny lady completely gently caress up the mooks, I could watch an entire show where she just did that.
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Dec 6, 2023 14:35
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Caesar Saladin posted:I just love watching that tiny lady completely gently caress up the mooks, I could watch an entire show where she just did that. It's one of the best parts. Haven't seen this new one yet. Were there any twins in season 4? I'm still fixated on twin theory
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Dec 6, 2023 17:01
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Caesar Saladin posted:I just love watching that tiny lady completely gently caress up the mooks, I could watch an entire show where she just did that. Yeah it's a fun reversal from the bordering supernatural baddie (though we have one of those too). I'd have edited this episode to end on pancakes but otherwise great, tense stuff.
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Dec 6, 2023 17:58
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Oh my god I just remembered Ewan Mcgregor wasn't actually twins in season 3. TWIN THEORY IS DEBUNKED
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Dec 6, 2023 19:27
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The music choices have been kinda weird. Nightmare before christmas music was playing episodes ago when it would have probably made a lot more sense to have it playing during this episode Smack My Bitch Up last episode being played over boring scenes that it really didnt vibe with And then during the start of this episode they play some wretched version of "I Got You Babe" that I guess was supposed to set the tone of things being weird but once again I feel did not vibe at all with what was going on
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Dec 6, 2023 20:31
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Turpitude posted:And then during the start of this episode they play some wretched version of "I Got You Babe" that I guess was supposed to set the tone of things being weird but once again I feel did not vibe at all with what was going on It's Tiny Tim you luddite, and it was awesome. I love watching Dot gently caress poo poo up but it's kind of getting old that she can clearly kill these people but is going out of her way not to do it. Also that she refuses to tell her husband or the cops anything, especially at this point. I don't mind minnesota nice but this is just starting to become minnesota stupid in service of dragging out plot Lost-style. ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Dec 6, 2023 |
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Dec 6, 2023 21:06
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ChesterJT posted:It's Tiny Tim you luddite, and it was awesome. I thought it must have been Tiny Tim. Not my thing. What i don't get is why they didnt put the nightmare before xmas music over that part of the episode, rather than in a completely unrelated scene 2 episodes ago. Agreed on Dot refusing to talk to people, it has gotten old and I hope they pivot next episode
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Dec 6, 2023 22:02
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That song was the worst piece of crap I've ever heard. Ruined the scene.
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Dec 6, 2023 22:15
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Von Pluring posted:That song was the worst piece of crap I've ever heard. Ruined the scene. yeah it took me completely out of the scene and got stuck in my head immediately
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Dec 6, 2023 22:39
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I was kind of hoping that Dot going in to see Wayne meant we'd be left with Mom talking to the cop and sussing out what Dot's been up to, with some movement on their plot. Still, though, the scene we did get really made me feel for Wayne... the dumbass... David Rysdahl as Wayne gives me some kinda vibes... I can't quite place. It might be Mr. Green from Clue or Brad Majors in Rocky Horror. Maybe Rick Moranis's character in Ghostbusters... Anyone else get reminded of someone specific? DaveKap fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Dec 6, 2023 |
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Dec 6, 2023 22:50
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DaveKap posted:I was kind of hoping that Dot going in to see Wayne meant we'd be left with Mom talking to the cop and sussing out what Dot's been up to, with some movement on their plot. Still, though, the scene we did get really made me feel for Wayne... the dumbass... yeah he is very rick moranis from ghost busters or little shop of horrors
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Dec 6, 2023 23:05
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Dot probably doesn't want to merk someone in front of her family. in addition it would complicate her probably doomed attempts to hang on to her Normal life.
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Dec 6, 2023 23:08
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uber_stoat posted:Dot probably doesn't want to merk someone in front of her family. in addition it would complicate her probably doomed attempts to hang on to her Normal life. Turpitude posted:yeah he is very rick moranis from ghost busters or little shop of horrors DaveKap fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Dec 6, 2023 |
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Dec 6, 2023 23:14
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I think what ya'll are identifying is the theme of the season. The Sheriff lives in his own reality where he is the law of the land, and Dot is trying to maintain living in a reality where she's just a house wife. Have actually enjoyed how poo poo both actually are at maintaining those realities – the FBI clearly has poo poo on Hamm, and his son's efforts to thwart the police have been shown largely to be a minor inconvenience. Dot's mother-in-law and the cops clearly see through Dot's efforts as well. This was something they did brilliantly in Season 2, the best season, with Kirsten Dunst being in denial up and into the final episode. Don't disagree in the sense that I want the husband to be let into what's actually going on, but that's clearly the tension of the season. I trust their choices on it. The dam is inevitably going to break, and it's gonna be painful. "Pancakes." CatstropheWaitress fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Dec 6, 2023 |
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Dec 6, 2023 23:37
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Not a fan of the amnesia angle for Wayne but liked pretty much everything else. Munch is the most interesting part of the show for me after last week's episode. Hawley is really good at setting up all these interesting characters and having them meet and interact in all these unexpected ways. Like a chaotic Newton's cradle or some such
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Dec 7, 2023 00:36
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Tag yourself. I'm enema guy. Only halfway through the episode, but I just loved that bit for some reason. E: Okay, everything about Lenore sincerely hurts my heart. I need some kind of 5 second, in passing shot in the finale that shows that she's alright. oh jay fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 01:12
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DaveKap posted:I was kind of hoping that Dot going in to see Wayne meant we'd be left with Mom talking to the cop and sussing out what Dot's been up to, with some movement on their plot. Still, though, the scene we did get really made me feel for Wayne... the dumbass... It took me until this episode to realize that Wayne isn't Bill Paxton's son. Goon face blindness, game over man. Overall a good episode, would have wanted more out of the Home Alone traps but I think it was still great.
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Dec 7, 2023 02:47
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CatstropheWaitress posted:Don't disagree in the sense that I want the husband to be let into what's actually going on, but that's clearly the tension of the season. I trust their choices on it. The dam is inevitably going to break, and it's gonna be painful. That's fine when strange things start to happen, but you've now had thugs break into their house for a second time, a shopping spree to buy multiple firearms, a house full of kevin mcallister booby traps, your wife disappearing and returning with a house and her feet covered in blood, and their house burning to the ground. Dragging this out any further isn't tension, it's a waste of time and aggravating to most viewers who don't have patience for supreme bullshit even in a fictional tv show. The dam has already broken.
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Dec 7, 2023 02:48
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DaveKap posted:David Rysdahl as Wayne gives me some kinda vibes... I can't quite place. It might be Mr. Green from Clue or Brad Majors in Rocky Horror. Maybe Rick Moranis's character in Ghostbusters... Anyone else get reminded of someone specific? Cory Michael Smith's version of The Riddler on Gotham, riiiight before he snaps and starts killing people.
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Dec 7, 2023 05:35
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ChesterJT posted:That's fine when strange things start to happen, but you've now had thugs break into their house for a second time, a shopping spree to buy multiple firearms, a house full of kevin mcallister booby traps, your wife disappearing and returning with a house and her feet covered in blood, and their house burning to the ground. Dragging this out any further isn't tension, it's a waste of time and aggravating to most viewers who don't have patience for supreme bullshit even in a fictional tv show. The dam has already broken. Everyone knows where Dot is and what she's done, the cards are stacked against her so much and yet nothing's happening to her. It makes it hard when her nine year old is unphased by their dad getting shocked, their house burning down, and a home invasion. And that the husband is the worst Fargo character ever. Her family's not scared or in danger because they're idiots, and she has plot armor, so where's the drama? It's got moments, the Tillman crew showing up to her house was a great cliffhanger, but the Home Alone poo poo was tiring. Feels like most of the effort went into making this season Fargo Funny.
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Dec 7, 2023 05:40
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ChesterJT posted:That's fine when strange things start to happen, but you've now had thugs break into their house for a second time, a shopping spree to buy multiple firearms, a house full of kevin mcallister booby traps, your wife disappearing and returning with a house and her feet covered in blood, and their house burning to the ground. Eh, I think that's what's made this more interesting to me. Like in both her and the sheriff's case, there's plenty of evidence against them, but they're still contesting the facts. The dam breaks when something irrevocable happens. A house can be replaced. The trust of her family can't. So far, they still trust her. The husband is basically a cartoon character, but is just as dedicated as Dot to having the dream nuclear family lifestyle. She's fighting for it, he just doesn't want to question it, cause it goes away if he does. I don't mind them drawing out the process of Dot having to face reality, because she's both failing miserably at it and justice IRL takes days/weeks. The cops and FBI have so far been shown to be fairly competent, but not speedy. Feels more realistic than a thriller movie where the cop forsakes everything else in their life to just go after one perp. quote:Dragging this out any further isn't tension, it's a waste of time and aggravating to most viewers who don't have patience for supreme bullshit even in a fictional tv show. The dam has already broken Have you seen Twin Peaks / if so did you like it?
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Dec 7, 2023 06:26
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Das Boo posted:I'm trying to figure out if there's a clever reason behind "Dot Lyon" (dot line) and coming up short. Best I got is the letter A from morse code, so I think I may be staring too hard at a coincidence. Given how things are shaping up, I'm surprised her original or assumed name isn't Sandy. I figured it was Dorothy to have another season with a Wizard of Oz reference too. Nameless Pete posted:I like this read. Munch is a walking vessel of sin the same way Oogie is big a big ol' sack of bugs. What happens when he comes unravelled? I had that very same thought, though I hoped it wasn't reading too much into it. And about the consequence of killing him, assuming it's possible. Anyway, both remind me a bit of Legion from the Bible and Castlevania. Not exactly, but still. And since the boogeyman reference this episode seals the comparison deal, one concrete thing taken from the movie is that Gator actually only hires Munch's henchman, who then brought Munch into the bargain without permission. (There's that bit where Munch says saying lady means that guy but tiger means he brings another guy that costs three times as much.) Given the absent mask, I'd say dead-by-toilet guy was our Barrel. Spoilers due to article: I think Hawley is teasing that Gator eventually kidnaps Dot successfully after all these botches, things manage to go even worse, Munch gets hold of her to straight-up kill her, then Gator kills/unravell's Munch and his sins in order to save Dot. Could be misleading us to subvert it though. I'm intrigued. Full disclosure: this show got me to finally watch the Nightmare Before Christmas between the third and fourth episodes, and this has worked out so well I'm as grateful I hadn't seen it before as I am to watch it fresh in the midst of this.
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Dec 7, 2023 08:08
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I don't have anything smart or insightful to add to the discussion, but goddamn do I love this season so far. The husband drive me absolutely nuts, though, the one time he doesn't just let Dot roll right over him is, of course, when he utterly fucks everything up.
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Dec 7, 2023 15:50
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CatstropheWaitress posted:Have you seen Twin Peaks / if so did you like it? I did and I did, but I don't think it's a good comparison because of how surreal that show was. Fargo goes out there sometimes, like with the sin eater, but watching Twin Peaks was like a prolonged acid trip. You're just there for the spectacle.
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Dec 7, 2023 17:22
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tetrapyloctomy posted:The husband drive me absolutely nuts, though, the one time he doesn't just let Dot roll right over him is, of course, when he utterly fucks everything up. Yeah he is a frustrating character to watch, kind of the weak link of the whole show right now.
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Dec 7, 2023 18:02
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