USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

The FDA has approved the first ever gene-editing treatment.

Summary:

- This is just a gene editing process for curing sickle cell disease.

It does not necessarily mean that widespread gene editing treatment will be approved or that non-medical gene editing will be available soon.

- The treatment allows people to edit their genes and modify their own stem cells to essentially become their own bone marrow donor without major surgery.

Previously, the only way to cure sickle cell was to go through an incredibly painful bone marrow donation process that had a high chance of failure and was difficult for some patients to find a matching donor.

The process does involve chemotherapy, though.

- The therapy is currently incredibly expensive.

It is expected to cost between $1 million and $2 million (not counting potential insurance or manufacturer discounts) per patient.

- Roughly 65% of people who undergo the treatment are permanently cured.

They have studied patients for two years after treatment and found no long-term side effects, but they can't say for sure that there may not be side effects that take more than to years and are awaiting data.

Everyone involved in the clinical trials will be followed for an additional 13 years (15 total) to track and confirm if there are any long-term side effects.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1733165402471924014

quote:

The Food and Drug Administration on Friday approved a powerful treatment for sickle cell disease, a devastating illness that affects more than 100,000 Americans, the majority of whom are Black.

The therapy, called Casgevy, from Vertex Pharmaceuticals and CRISPR Therapeutics, is the first medicine to be approved in the United States that uses the gene-editing tool CRISPR, which won its inventors the Nobel Prize in chemistry in 2020.

�I think this is a pivotal moment in the field,� said Dr. Alexis Thompson, chief of the division of hematology at Children�s Hospital of Philadelphia, who has previously consulted for Vertex. �It�s been really remarkable how quickly we went from the actual discovery of CRISPR, the awarding of a Nobel Prize, and now actually seeing it being an approved product.�

The approval marks the first of two potential breakthroughs for the inherited blood disorder. The FDA on Friday also approved a second treatment for sickle cell disease, called Lyfgenia, a gene therapy from drugmaker Bluebird Bio. Both treatments work by genetically modifying a patient�s own stem cells.

Until now, the only known cure for sickle cell disease was a bone marrow transplant from a donor, which carries the risk of rejection by the immune system, in addition to the difficult process of finding a matching donor.

Casgevy, which was approved for people ages 12 and up, removes the need for a donor. Using CRISPR, it edits the DNA found in a patient�s stem cells to remove the gene that causes the disease.

�The patient is their own donor,� Thompson said.

�It�s a game-changer,� said Dr. Asmaa Ferdjallah, a pediatric hematologist and bone marrow transplant physician at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. �To really reimagine and rediscuss sickle cell disease as a curable disease and not as this painful and debilitating chronic disease is hope enough with this news.�

Still, the new therapy is expected to be extremely expensive � potentially around $2 million per patient, according to a report from the Institute for Clinical and Economic Review, a nonprofit group that helps determine fair prices for drugs. The pricing strategy, experts argue, may place it out of reach for many families. What�s more, that price doesn�t include the cost of care associated with the treatment, like a stay in the hospital or chemotherapy.

�We really have to make sure that it is accessible,� said Dr. Rabi Hanna, a pediatric hematologist-oncologist at the Cleveland Clinic who has previously served on the advisory board for Vertex. �This could be an equalizer for people with sickle cell because many patients cannot pursue career options� because of the illness.

�It�s something families have been aware of in the early research stage, and they�ve been very patiently waiting for years,� Ferdjallah said. �It�s been eagerly awaited by patients and families, but also by providers and physicians.�

How Casgevy works

In patients with sickle cell disease, red blood cells, which are usually disk-shaped, take on a crescent or sickle shape. This change can cause cells to clump together, leading to clots and blockages in the blood vessels, starving tissues of oxygen. Patients can experience excruciating pain, breathing problems and stroke.

Casgevy works by editing the DNA in a patient�s stem cells � which are responsible for making the body�s blood cells � so that they no longer produce sickle-shaped cells.

While technically a one-time treatment, a number of steps that span months are required before the patient actually gets the modified stem cells. It begins with a series of blood transfusions over three to four months, after which the stem cells are extracted from the patient�s bone marrow and sent off to a lab where they are edited, Hanna said.

Before they can be reinfused into the patient, however, doctors need to make sure no flawed stem cells remain in the body. To do so, chemotherapy is used to destroy the patient�s bone marrow.

Only then can the edited stem cells be reinfused into the patient, followed by another month or two in the hospital to allow the cells to grow and the patient to recover.

Hanna said he�s always �cautious� when telling families and patients about the one-time treatment because they may have unrealistic expectations.

�There are multiple phases of this journey,� he said.

The clinical trial included 46 people in the U.S. and abroad, 30 of whom had at least 18 months of follow-up care after the treatment. Of those, the treatment has been successful in 29.

LaRae Morning, 29, of Phoenix, was among the trial patients whose treatment was successful.

Her doctors did not expect her to live past the age of 11. Her mother lost several jobs when Morning was a child and a teenager because of her frequent hospital visits.

In April 2021, Morning joined the clinical trial at Sarah Cannon Research Institute and HCA Healthcare�s The Children�s Hospital at TriStar Centennial in Nashville, Tennessee, a decision she initially regretted. Living in Phoenix, she had to fly to Nashville once a month for treatment. It included several blood transfusions, which lasted eight hours each, and taking a medication, called plerixafor, which she recalled causing her intense stomachaches. When she started chemotherapy, her hair began to fall out and her skin changed color, resembling the appearance of a chemical burn. She also experienced nausea.

It took about six to seven months for her to feel back to normal following the CRISPR treatment. Now, she said, she�s feeling the benefits, going out to coffee shops, spending time with her friends and finishing her first semester of law school in Washington, D.C.

�Now that I�m here, I�m so happy that I did it,� she said of the trial. �I�m just like a regular person. I wake up and do a 5K. I lift weights. If I wanted to swim, I can swim. I�m still trying to know how far I can stretch it, like what are all the things I can do.�

That�s been the experience for several other patients in the trial as well, according to Dr. Monica Bhatia, chief of pediatric stem cell transplantation at NewYork-Presbyterian/Columbia University Irving Medical Center. Bhatia is a principal investigator at one of the clinical trial sites in New York City.

Following the treatment, most patients were going back to school, going to the gym or resuming other activities � �things that a lot of people take for granted,� she said � after about three to four months.

�They�re really able to live life without restrictions,� Bhatia said.

Dr. Haydar Frangoul, medical director of pediatric hematology-oncology for the Sarah Cannon Research Institute, said he is hopeful the therapy will provide relief to more patients.

�I think this is a huge moment for patients with sickle cell disease,� said Frangoul, who was the lead investigator on the clinical trial and treated Morning.

Long-term questions

Although Casgevy has been shown to be effective, experts still don�t know about potential long-term effects, since the trial is only set to run for two years.

During a meeting in October, an FDA advisory committee discussed the risk of �off-target� effects, which refers to when the gene-editing tool makes cuts to other stretches of DNA other than the intended target and how the FDA should consider those risks moving forward.

It�s unclear what effects an off-target edit would have on a patient, but the fear is that it could result in unintended health consequences down the road, Thompson said. �To date, there do not appear to be measurable consequences.�

Bhatia is following the patients for 15 years as part of a post-approval study and will be monitoring for signs of off-target edits.

�Long-term follow-up is still going to be so crucial,� she said.

Christopher Vega, 31, from Allentown, Pennsylvania, said the possibility of long-term effects aren�t a concern for him; he is happy to be living a life free of chronic pain.

He joined the clinical trial at the Children�s Hospital of Philadelphia in late 2020. He had suffered from chronic fatigue since he was a young child and would end up in the hospital every year with a pain crisis.

�When I was younger, my mom used to always tell me things happen for a reason. And I had so much trouble believing that, because I always thought, �Why me?�� he said.

While the treatment process was not always easy � Vega temporarily lost his hair, felt weak and nauseous and developed skin rashes � he said it was worth it.

�I am a whole different person,� said Vega, who is now attending the Los Angeles Film School online for visual effects while taking care of his 5-year-old daughter.

�Sometimes I would get small moments of anxiety that I would have a crisis,� he said. �And after going years now, I�m slowly coming to terms with, I�m OK, and I know I�m going to be here, present.�

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 8, 2023

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:06

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:46

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

zoux posted:

College Station...say why's it called that

https://twitter.com/DjsokeSpeaking/status/1733144858007601247

I guess one explanation could be that individual perceptions are a lagging indicator and in 3 months we'll be like "remember when everyone thought the economy sucked"

could be, but the thing is, for some people, many people, perhaps even most people, those dollars at the grocery store are life or death and not hypotheticals. Economists with five degrees insisting with graph after graph that everything is fine means jack poo poo when your individual perception is you need loving bread to feed your children because they will die if they don't get food, and the bread costs 2.5x as much as it did a year ago

dumbass political opinions will happen, sure, but no one is going to forget when buying potatoes at walmart tripled for no reason

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Dec 8, 2023

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:16

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

could be, but the thing is, for some people, many people, perhaps even most people, those dollars at the grocery store are life or death and not hypotheticals. Economists with five degrees insisting with graph after graph that everything is fine means jack poo poo when your individual perception is you need loving bread to feed your children because they will die if they don't get food.

This is like the turbo opposite version of the "look at this graph, you dumb pleebs!" argument.

"Most people" in the U.S. did not decide the economy was bad in October 2023 because they were legitimately worried their children would starve to death due to lack of bread.

That's bonkers.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:22

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

CRISPR editing for sickle cell, didn't see that one coming so soon. Wild stuff. With it being bone marrow editing will the genetic modifications be passed on to any children? Personal gene editing to cure maladies, like the muscular dystrophy that I lost someone to, are super duper cool and I hope the treatments start happening but even that can start getting in to some pretty tangled moral territory. Genetic modifications that get passed on to future generations get their really fast.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:28

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

bird food bathtub posted:

CRISPR editing for sickle cell, didn't see that one coming so soon. Wild stuff. With it being bone marrow editing will the genetic modifications be passed on to any children? Personal gene editing to cure maladies, like the muscular dystrophy that I lost someone to, are super duper cool and I hope the treatments start happening but even that can start getting in to some pretty tangled moral territory. Genetic modifications that get passed on to future generations get their really fast.

CRISPR does not edit your entire genetic code and you can't pass it on to the next generation unless you specifically edit your egg/sperm or edit the fertilized egg/embryo in utero.

quote:

These changes are isolated to only certain tissues and are not passed from one generation to the next. However, changes made to genes in egg or sperm cells or to the genes of an embryo could be passed to future generations.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/un...%20generations.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:30

Morrow: Oct 31, 2010

bird food bathtub posted:

CRISPR editing for sickle cell, didn't see that one coming so soon. Wild stuff. With it being bone marrow editing will the genetic modifications be passed on to any children? Personal gene editing to cure maladies, like the muscular dystrophy that I lost someone to, are super duper cool and I hope the treatments start happening but even that can start getting in to some pretty tangled moral territory. Genetic modifications that get passed on to future generations get their really fast.

Unless you're impregnating someone with your bone marrow, no. This is an important first step on a slam dunk case that will eventually see us getting to the point we can address a lot of issues in unborn children but there's big conversations along the way (I want my kid to not have sickle cell and also be blonde and blue eyed).

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:31

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Morrow posted:

Unless you're impregnating someone with your bone marrow, no. This is an important first step on a slam dunk case that will eventually see us getting to the point we can address a lot of issues in unborn children but there's big conversations along the way (I want my kid to not have sickle cell and also be blonde and blue eyed).

If you think about it, it would be wrong to deny my child gills, such that he may conquer the seas

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:33

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

bird food bathtub posted:

CRISPR editing for sickle cell, didn't see that one coming so soon. Wild stuff. With it being bone marrow editing will the genetic modifications be passed on to any children? Personal gene editing to cure maladies, like the muscular dystrophy that I lost someone to, are super duper cool and I hope the treatments start happening but even that can start getting in to some pretty tangled moral territory. Genetic modifications that get passed on to future generations get their really fast.

No, you would need to edit the cells in sperm/egg cells

My dad has been working in this field for a long time to cure immune system diseases and its amazing to see where the field is now compared to 20 years ago. They can do stuff like find and fix a single incorrect base pair out of your entire genome that is preventing your immune systems cells from maturing

Morrow posted:

Unless you're impregnating someone with your bone marrow, no. This is an important first step on a slam dunk case that will eventually see us getting to the point we can address a lot of issues in unborn children but there's big conversations along the way (I want my kid to not have sickle cell and also be blonde and blue eyed).

A lot of that is already happening with IVF where they can check the genome before implantation to make sure it didn't inheriet diseases (and make sure its a boy/girl or what have you). The ~~future~~ present is weird

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:34

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1733114689356288352

Hard to determine who got captured harder by whom, the US right wing or the Russian right wing.

I see a lot of stuff about how Genocide Joe is shipping WMDs to Israel, but the does the death of the border/UKR/ISR aid deal means they haven't gotten anything they didn't have on 10/6? Or have we released or otherwise supplied them with additional materiel through other means?

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:36

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Morrow posted:

Unless you're impregnating someone with your bone marrow, no. This is an important first step on a slam dunk case that will eventually see us getting to the point we can address a lot of issues in unborn children but there's big conversations along the way (I want my kid to not have sickle cell and also be blonde and blue eyed).

There are 100% going to be people who campaign to ban things like curing deafness or down syndrome.

You already have people who are against getting their deaf kids cochlear implants because it eliminates deaf culture or they themselves are deaf and are worried that it will take away their ability to fully connect with their kids.

I can understand the emotional aspect to it, and unfortunately I have a feeling that the emotional aspect will probably win out when it comes to crafting laws around it, but I don't think banning a world where nobody is deaf or forcing your kids to be deaf when you could have prevented it is a good thing. They have already tried (and been partially successful) to ban IVF or abortion procedures that aim to prevent down syndrome or inheriting genetic diseases.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Dec 8, 2023

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:36

Quixzlizx: Jan 7, 2007

If you buy things on sale, fresh ingredients aren't that much higher than their pre-COVID levels, at least in my experience in the NY metro area. Maybe it's worse in food deserts where there's only one supermarket within 30 miles that can jack up prices without any competition while blaming "inflation." The great egg panic of 2023 was due to bird flu or something, the prices eventually dropped back down to near "normal" levels after a few months.

It's the name brand junk food and frozen pizza and soda and other things that nobody actually needs to survive that are twice as expensive as they were 4 years ago.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:43

golden bubble: Jun 3, 2011; yospos

People who are struggling to afford essentials, or are even slightly worried about struggling to afford essentials cut back on spending elsewhere. They certainly don't buy loads of gadgets and other random junk. And yet, this year's Black Friday broke records for the amount of random poo poo bought on Black Friday, and this year's Cyber Monday also broke records for the amount of unessential poo poo bought on Cyber Monday. Clearly a lot of people are not afraid of spending on frivolous stuff.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:48

Josh Wow: Feb 28, 2005; We need more beer up here!

At Ingles, the largest grocery chain in my area by an overwhelming amount, green bell peppers are $2 at regular pricing. They were on sale yesterday 2 for $3. I get most of my produce from Trader Joes where all peppers are generally under $1.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:50

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Quixzlizx posted:

If you buy things on sale, fresh ingredients aren't that much higher than their pre-COVID levels, at least in my experience in the NY metro area. Maybe it's worse in food deserts where there's only one supermarket within 30 miles that can jack up prices without any competition while blaming "inflation." The great egg panic of 2023 was due to bird flu or something, the prices eventually dropped back down to near "normal" levels after a few months.

It's the name brand junk food and frozen pizza and soda and other things that nobody actually needs to survive that are twice as expensive as they were 4 years ago.

People really like their name brand junk food and pizzas, though. Their spending indicates that they would prefer to pay higher prices for them than switch to something else, so it is going to annoy them even if they technically could change the brand/product or make their own to get more value.

Also, anything with added sugar (which is more than half of things in a U.S. grocery store) or processed wheat/potatoes genuinely is a lot more expensive right now because of shortages. Potato chips, frozen pizzas, cereal, crackers, and other things like that are incredibly popular and people would rather pay the higher prices than swap their diet entirely for those items, so it is going to make people mad because they won't all act like entirely rational economic actors.

Yes, they could dramatically improve their grocery store purchase value by optimizing their purchases and changing their habits, but nobody likes doing that and many people just won't. So the solution is technically there, but it's not really a practical one for making people less angry because people will pay the prices and be angry or switch to something else and be angry they had to switch.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:54

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

golden bubble posted:

People who are struggling to afford essentials, or are even slightly worried about struggling to afford essentials cut back on spending elsewhere. They certainly don't buy loads of gadgets and other random junk. And yet, this year's Black Friday broke records for the amount of random poo poo bought on Black Friday, and this year's Cyber Monday also broke records for the amount of unessential poo poo bought on Cyber Monday. Clearly a lot of people are not afraid of spending on frivolous stuff.

They are spending to cope with their economic precarity, which makes them more precarious, which makes them spend more....it's a viscous cycle.

It's been very disheartening to see so many people just forget that anecdotes aren't data because they don't like the data.

Kagrenak posted:

Again with this? Why do people keep posting these things without addressing the part which is actually confusing: if people are unable to feed their children properly because bread is so expensive, why are they rating their own financial situation as good?

Especially when the lowest socioeconomic groups have seen the most real wage growth. But I know that's just what the "facts" and "data" say.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:54

Kagrenak: Sep 8, 2010

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

could be, but the thing is, for some people, many people, perhaps even most people, those dollars at the grocery store are life or death and not hypotheticals. Economists with five degrees insisting with graph after graph that everything is fine means jack poo poo when your individual perception is you need loving bread to feed your children because they will die if they don't get food, and the bread costs 2.5x as much as it did a year ago

dumbass political opinions will happen, sure, but no one is going to forget when buying potatoes at walmart tripled for no reason

Again with this? Why do people keep posting these things without addressing the part which is actually confusing: if people are unable to feed their children properly because bread is so expensive, why are they rating their own financial situation as good?

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:55

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

zoux posted:

Hard to determine who got captured harder by whom, the US right wing or the Russian right wing.

They didn�t need to be captured. (But they certainly were trying in both directions). They just had to recognize they were the same and decide to cooperate.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 18:55

Zapf Dingbat: Jan 9, 2001

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Map of what the initial national high-speed rail network will look like:

Man, I remember being a little kid sometime in the early 90s and stopping at a rail crossing, and just how blazing fast the Amtrak seemed when it zoomed past. I think they discontinued that line sometime in Clinton's admin.

I see they're planning on reinstituting the Mobile to New Orleans line in that map, which is where I would have seen that train. I'm not a train weirdo or anything but seeing that dotted line made me a little emotional. Like we're clawing back better things from this austerity poo poo.

Drop in the bucket in the long run. Probably not happening fast enough to make me abandon my plans to leave the country.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 19:02

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

zoux posted:

They are spending to cope with their economic precarity, which makes them more precarious, which makes them spend more....it's a viscous cycle.

It�s really really important for folks to understand these things are feedback cycles or loops.

Lack of time -> bad food and life choices choices to save time-> need for more hours to pay for more expensive bad food -> health issues resulting from bad food and time stress-> exhaustion and fatigue-> lack of time

A lot of people think it�s a single choice and matter of will. It�s very much not, most of things in our lives determinative of success or failure are similar loops.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 19:09

Quixzlizx: Jan 7, 2007

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

People really like their name brand junk food and pizzas, though. Their spending indicates that they would prefer to pay higher prices for them than switch to something else, so it is going to annoy them even if they technically could change the brand/product or make their own to get more value.

Also, anything with added sugar (which is more than half of things in a U.S. grocery store) or processed wheat/potatoes genuinely is a lot more expensive right now because of shortages. Potato chips, frozen pizzas, cereal, crackers, and other things like that are incredibly popular and people would rather pay the higher prices than swap their diet entirely for those items, so it is going to make people mad because they won't all act like entirely rational economic actors.

Yes, they could dramatically improve their grocery store purchase value by optimizing their purchases and changing their habits, but nobody likes doing that and many people just won't. So the solution is technically there, but it's not really a practical one for making people less angry because people will pay the prices and be angry or switch to something else and be angry they had to switch.

I was responding to the poster who was saying that kids are starving because their parents are spending too much on ~~candles~~ bread.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 19:10

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Bar Ran Dun posted:

It�s really really important for folks to understand these things are feedback cycles or loops.

Lack of time -> bad food and life choices choices to save time-> need for more hours to pay for more expensive bad food -> health issues resulting from bad food and time stress-> exhaustion and fatigue-> lack of time

A lot of people think it�s a single choice and matter of will. It�s very much not, most of things in our lives determinative of success or failure are similar loops.

Sorry I was making fun of news outlets who are ignoring the data to come up with insane new ideas about consumer spending

# ? Dec 8, 2023 19:15

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

The Glumslinger posted:

There is already a Metrolink rail line from Union Station (main hub of the LA's transit system) to Rancho Cucamonga, but it would be nice to get that upgraded. But I'm sure LA would rather spend that money on building new subway lines

LA public transit in general, and the Metrolink in particular, needs a huge update. CityNerd just did an analysis of high speed rail vs. flying vs. driving for people living throughout Los Angeles, and if you don't live right next to the station, flying (including time spent going to and waiting at the airport) is way faster solely because of the time it takes to cross LA by public transit.

I live pretty close to the Redondo Beach Cheesecake Factory that he uses as a starting point, and I confirmed it would take me over 3 hours to cross LA and get to the Rancho Cucamonga station by public transit (primarily via MetroLink), which is a pathetic amount of time for it to take to cross the second-most-populous city in the US by public transit.

Edit: Google maps was being very bad at suggesting routes. Updated the time above.

VikingofRock fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Dec 8, 2023

# ? Dec 8, 2023 19:41

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

zoux posted:

Sorry I was making fun of news outlets who are ignoring the data to come up with insane new ideas about consumer spending

Something I watched my dad do growing up was to splurge on a big item he couldn�t afford intermittently. This was normally computer related (but occasionally was a guitar or a banjo). My parents didn�t have a lot of money. I�ve gotten bonuses larger than either�s yearly income.

We were my room was the top half of a large trailer closet (sister had the bottom half) if you dropped the gallon of milk that meant no milk for two weeks poor. Being that kind of poor, that leads to my parents denying themselves sometimes for years at a time. Every now and then all that pent up not having, the mental effort required breaks and one buys something large and stupid financially.

It�s a part of the experience of being quite poor. I think the doomflation stuff is the idea that the pandemic made middle class folks experience that.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 20:19

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/_phillipsmorgan/status/1733183491326509370

Time to gently caress off forever Nancy

quote:

But less than 18 months since that heartwarming proposal, DailyMail.com can exclusively reveal that the couple have broken up and are now in the middle of a messy legal fight over multi-million-dollar homes they bought together.

According to four sources, the South Carolina lawmaker - who was one of the eight to vote former Speaker Kevin McCarthy out in a historic vote - split with Charleston software mogul Bryant last month.

Since they parted ways, their rift has deteriorated, and now they are fighting over a $3.9 million beachfront property with six bedrooms and a pool and a $1.3 million Washington, D.C., home they both have equity in.

quote:

While dating Bryant, Mace often openly discussed her sex life in the office, including in front of male junior staffers, according to three sources who recalled such comments in graphic detail to DailyMail.com.

'She frequently made sexual references in the office and discussed things that were not appropriate in a work environment,' one former senior staffer said.

If one of her staff members were to officially complain about her conduct, she could be subjected to an ethics investigation.

Trouble on the home front comes as Mace lost three more staffers this week.

Days ago, the congresswoman fired her chief of staff Dan Hanlon, then her deputy chief of staff, Richard Chalkey, and legislative director, Randal Meyer, resigned, as first reported by the Washington Examiner. Three other junior staffers have left in recent months.

Mace blamed her frisky fianc� for being late to a prayer breakfast this summer, joking about pre-marital sex in a religious faux pas.

The 45-year-old congresswoman said she had woken up at 7 a.m. and only had 45 minutes to get ready for the annual event, which brought together South Carolina lawmakers and took place on Capitol Hill.

So she is as obnoxious as she seems on TV.

quote:

They said Mace's office essentially set her policy agenda since she was focused on media attention.

'Everything started with media attention,' the source said. 'We were free to drive the legislative agenda. She was pretty hands off in the process, which is pretty cool for a staffer. She was more focused on getting on Fox News.'

This is actually a huge problem in the GOP caucus, half the membership is just there for the memes

zoux fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Dec 8, 2023

# ? Dec 8, 2023 20:19

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Bar Ran Dun posted:

Something I watched my dad do growing up was to splurge on a big item he couldn’t afford intermittently. This was normally computer related (but occasionally was a guitar or a banjo). My parents didn’t have a lot of money. I’ve gotten bonuses larger than either’s yearly income.

We were my room was the top half of a large trailer closet (sister had the bottom half) if you dropped the gallon of milk that meant no milk for two weeks poor. Being that kind of poor, that leads to my parents denying themselves sometimes for years at a time. Every now and then all that pent up not having, the mental effort required breaks and one buys something large and stupid financially.

It’s a part of the experience of being quite poor. I think the doomflation stuff is the idea that the pandemic made middle class folks experience that.

Sure, maybe, but statistically speaking you think everyone is doing that at once?

# ? Dec 8, 2023 20:25

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

zoux posted:

Senate GOP now hoping for "hit by a bus" to get them out of a Trump nom
https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1733130920939384970

https://www.shreveporttimes.com/sto...or/70776844007/

quote:

"I'm not his doctor, but I will say his doctor put out a statement listing the tests the leader has gone through and there was no evidence or any terrible thing that had happened," Cassidy said Wednesday in a response to a question from the USA Today Network. "So at this point I say that Mitch can still be leader of the Republican caucus."

How about you stay in your lane, gastroenterology?

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/_phillipsmorgan/status/1733183491326509370

Time to gently caress off forever Nancy

Reminder

FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Dec 8, 2023

# ? Dec 8, 2023 20:32

Misunderstood: Jan 19, 2023; by Fluffdaddy

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Sure, maybe, but statistically speaking you think everyone is doing that at once?

The way the conversation has gone suggests that as long as there are any economic problems in the United States whatsoever, people (often with political agendas) will use those problems to insist that any level of economic discontentment, no matter how vibes-based statistics suggest it is, is being caused by material conditions.

Yes, some people are screwed in the American system. No, they are not particularly more screwed than they were four years ago. No, not everybody who is complaining about the economy right now is screwed, or worse off than they were before the pandemic, or even struggling at all. And, yes, the media has a huge impact on what people think about the economy, because outside of their personal finances people are unlikely know anything about economics or the economy aside what they are told by the media. The Financial Times did that survey, previously discussed, that showed people are egregiously misinformed - not only do they not know the facts, a supermajority is more likely to believe incorrect things than correct things. Leaving aside the negative slant of coverage in places like the NYT, half of the media will argue that the economy is bad no matter what if there is a Democratic president, and their viewers/readers generally do not question their assertions.

Why do people find it so hard to believe that the widespread dissatisfaction is caused by that misinformation and not material conditions, especially when people report their material conditions as "pretty okay, I guess" at about the same rate they have the last 10 years? Why can't we accept the obvious answer, which is that people are being told that the economy is bad, and so they believe it? No other explanation given has really been able to demonstrate meaningful difference from the economic problems we had pre-pandemic or the the difference between sentiment in the US versus the rest of the west. (Of the arguments that have been made, I find interest rates and algorithmic pricing to be the most compelling.)

That said, there were serious economic problems in 2022 (although people rated them as "spring 2009" bad, which was ridiculous), and I think most of what we are seeing right now is just a hangover in public sentiment from those problems. It takes people a little while after an economic improvement to "feel" it; the media is slowing down that process but they can't completely halt it. Sentiment is improving, albeit slowly, because conditions have improved.

Misunderstood fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Dec 8, 2023

# ? Dec 8, 2023 20:47

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Sure, maybe, but statistically speaking you think everyone is doing that at once?

Every one went through a specific event at about the same time for roughly the same amount of time.

But different parts of society experienced the pandemic very very differently, so I think it�s reasonable that some parts are doing it all at roughly the same time and other parts aren�t doing it at all. If one isn�t in one of the demographics that things really sucked for it wouldn�t make any sense looking at if from the outside.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 20:49

Misunderstood: Jan 19, 2023; by Fluffdaddy

People just understand inflation really, really, really badly. As many times as I've heard the phrase "too much money chasing too few goods" over the last couple of years, people don't understand the theoretical basis all that well. I think a lot of people think inflation works like... "we're having trouble selling this stuff, so we have to mark it up to make up for the losses." People think that things that are correlated with a good economy, like high gas prices, are correlated with a bad economy. They can watch gas plummet to $1.50 in December 2008 or May 2020 and somehow they still don't get that gas prices aren't "economy is this bad:" signs. That's the kind of thing that makes Americans more likely than not to agree with the statement "unemployment is currently at a 50-year high." They just have no loving clue what causes inflation.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 20:52

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Misunderstood posted:

Why do people find it so hard to believe that the widespread dissatisfaction is caused by that misinformation and not material conditions, especially when people report their material conditions as "pretty okay, I guess" at about the same rate they have the last 10 years? Why can't we accept the obvious answer, which is that people are being told that the economy is bad, and so they believe it?

Because, generally speaking, you can't fool all the people all the time. People may not be expert in economics or law or politics but they are expert in how they feel personally and generally if people tell you they're feeling a particular way you should believe them because they probably aren't wrong.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 20:57

Misunderstood: Jan 19, 2023; by Fluffdaddy

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Because, generally speaking, you can't fool all the people all the time. People may not be expert in economics or law or politics but they are expert in how they feel personally and generally if people tell you they're feeling a particular way you should believe them because they probably aren't wrong.

I don't think anybody is wrong about how they feel, that's kind of impossible (in theory if not in practice). It's just a matter of where the feelings are coming from, and with inflation falling for a year but more people than not believing that it's actually still rising, I think we can maybe point the finger at the people who are making them believe that wrong thing, or, at the very least, completely failed to inform them of the right thing, rather than saying they've intuited the wrong thing out of their lived experience.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 21:03

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Because, generally speaking, you can't fool all the people all the time. People may not be expert in economics or law or politics but they are expert in how they feel personally and generally if people tell you they're feeling a particular way you should believe them because they probably aren't wrong.

So why don't you believe the majority of people who say they are doing fine?

The reason is we've demonstrated that Americans have a very poor understanding of the economy (and lots of stuff, people tend to think stuff like "25% of the population is gay"). I trust a layperson's judgement on their own financial stability, I do not trust them to evaluate macroeconomic trends.

We wouldn't give this kind of deference to climate change deniers ignoring graphs of skyrocketing ocean temperatures and all the reams of data we have showing anthropogenic climate change is real and saying "but it's cold where I am", so I don't know why suddenly these people are experts on national financial trends.

e: I shouldn't say "it's cold where I am" this is more "I saw on the news that it's snowing in colorado, so even though I'm boiling hot I think that global warming is fake"

e2: speaking of disturbing polling results

zoux fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Dec 8, 2023

# ? Dec 8, 2023 21:06

Ither: Jan 30, 2010

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/_phillipsmorgan/status/1733183491326509370

Time to gently caress off forever Nancy

So she is as obnoxious as she seems on TV.

This is actually a huge problem in the GOP caucus, half the membership is just there for the memes

If Nancy Mace resigns, is that it for the GOP majority?

# ? Dec 8, 2023 21:58

Digamma-F-Wau: Mar 22, 2016; It is curious and wants to accept all kinds of challenges

just dawning on me that it seems like that, in the event that both Trump and Biden die of old-man-itis, that the 2024 election has a decent chance of being Harris vs Haley (if I'm remembering the news of who the behind the scenes folks in the republican party are starting to coalesce towards correctly)

# ? Dec 8, 2023 22:00

predicto: Jul 22, 2004; THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

the bread costs 2.5x as much as it did a year ago

Weird. The bread where I am costs roughly the same as it did a year ago.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 22:02

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

Ither posted:

If Nancy Mace resigns, is that it for the GOP majority?

Why would she resign? Boebert didn't resign after getting caught on camera giving someone an old fashioned.

But yes that would end their majority as things now stand.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 22:02

Orthanc6: Nov 4, 2009

zoux posted:

So why don't you believe the majority of people who say they are doing fine?

The reason is we've demonstrated that Americans have a very poor understanding of the economy (and lots of stuff, people tend to think stuff like "25% of the population is gay"). I trust a layperson's judgement on their own financial stability, I do not trust them to evaluate macroeconomic trends.

We wouldn't give this kind of deference to climate change deniers ignoring graphs of skyrocketing ocean temperatures and all the reams of data we have showing anthropogenic climate change is real and saying "but it's cold where I am", so I don't know why suddenly these people are experts on national financial trends.

e: I shouldn't say "it's cold where I am" this is more "I saw on the news that it's snowing in colorado, so even though I'm boiling hot I think that global warming is fake"

e2: speaking of disturbing polling results

This shouldn't be a surprise; one of 2 governing parties in the US is committed to making voters as stupid as possible. To the point of giving the military difficulties finding new officers because average education standards have fallen so low.

The GOP is fine having the economy, military and their own personal safety be compromised if they can convince more people to join red team because they don't know any better.

There will unfortunately be strengthening of holocaust misinformation as a side effect of the Israeli government making themselves this year's villain. Some young people will understand the nuance, but others definitely will not.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 22:08

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Orthanc6 posted:

There will unfortunately be strengthening of holocaust misinformation as a side effect of the Israeli government making themselves this year's villain. Some young people will understand the nuance, but others definitely will not.

Yeah but that's a really really bad thing. 30 percent of under-29s just asking questions about if the Holocaust happens is how another one happens.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 22:10

James Garfield: May 5, 2012; Am I a manipulative abuser in real life, or do I just roleplay one on the Internet for fun? You decide!

I don't think the average person knows how much a bag of potatoes cost in April 2021. I don't think the average person experiencing severe food insecurity knows either. Not a value judgement, I just don't think remembering how much potatoes cost two years ago is important unless you're some kind of economist.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 22:11

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:46

Misunderstood: Jan 19, 2023; by Fluffdaddy

Digamma-F-Wau posted:

just dawning on me that it seems like that, in the event that both Trump and Biden die of old-man-itis, that the 2024 election has a decent chance of being Harris vs Haley (if I'm remembering the news of who the behind the scenes folks in the republican party are starting to coalesce towards correctly)

One and a half Indian women??? Nobody had that on their bingo card.

predicto posted:

Weird. The bread where I am costs roughly the same as it did a year ago.

Same. I think there has been some decent regional variation in inflation, with areas that have historically had lower COL hit harder.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 22:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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