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Elissimpark posted:I think it's something you grow up with. That said, having watched the tail end of the original series, I haven't really been interested in much of the new lot. The Doctor as a near god-like figure is not nearly as interesting as a weird science dude stumbling through adventures with randos. I was never into it as a kid - I grew up in the era where it was pretty dormant, so it was just this goofy old show. I gave it a go upon its return, but it gave me that vibe of when the BBC spend money on like, a Christmas episode or something, how things end up paradoxically looking very cheap and flat, and not in a good way. There was also a lot of cloying mid-aughts winsomeness in there with all that "aren't you humans brilliant! A girl from Peckham just overthrew an alien empiah!" The phrase "wobbly timey-wimey stuff" or whatever makes me physically recoil. I do find the old episodes appealing on paper though - they seem to have some Nigel Neale, Charles Fort, cosmic horror and new-wave sci-fi bleakness in there. Disco Pope fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 11, 2023 |
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Dec 11, 2023 22:10
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Modal Auxiliary posted:I understand the appeal of most fandoms but I have bounced off of Dr. Who like three times without observing any redeeming qualities. What do people see in this show? Yeah there were some eps that worked especially the angel one you mentioned but so many were nothing. A few had interesting ideas but then the Daleks would show up and it was the same dull resolution again. Bailed when it became entirely about Amy & Rory, the couple who can’t act but let’s pretend they have a love for the ages.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:46
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I grew up on The Twilight Zone so all other sci-fi TV has been spoiled for me, forever. poo poo gently caress, I love The Twilight Zone.
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Dec 11, 2023 23:53
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Twilight Zone is some of the most perfectly written TV ever. Rod Serling was a genius. Dr Who sucks but I never saw it til my late 20s.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:41
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Das Boo posted:I grew up on The Twilight Zone so all other sci-fi TV has been spoiled for me, forever.  I've got a theory that Twilight Zone is the most culturally-referenced tv show in the US at least.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:55
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My problem with Dr Who, besides just not really caring for it, is that the new episodes are being heralded as amazing mainly because they replaced the showrunner with the previous showrunner. Okay, sure. Problem is that it wasn't like the previous/now current showrunner didn't have a lot of bad or boring episodes. Dr Who is this show where people only remember episodes they liked, or episodes they didn't if they want to pick on a writer or the showrunner. 90% of the show is barely memorable and isn't even bad, just boring, and no one ever brings up those episodes. "Remember the best Doctor with Tennant? Every episode was so good" no you keep talking about like six episodes in as many seasons that are genuinely good and memorable. The rest are just there.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:52
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I grew up watching Tom Baker. He is the best Doctor. This discussion is terminated.
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Dec 12, 2023 02:06
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syntaxfunction posted:"Remember the best Doctor with Tennant? Every episode was so good" no you keep talking about like six episodes in as many seasons that are genuinely good and memorable. The rest are just there. Doctor Who fans, particularly Tennant fans, are paint-chip eating dumbasses and always have been. We get it-- Tennant is super boneable and a good actor. The rest is, like you said, six episodes. The rest is just general Millennial sepsis where anything new has to come with some childhood poo poo with tired-looking older actors doing their schtick "one last time." I swear we're worse than the Boomers for this, and the Boomers were rotten.
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Dec 12, 2023 02:32
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I went from the first season of the modern Dr Who with Eccleston to the second last Capaldi season before I could t take any more. I wanted to join my friends loving the show. My confession is that I couldn't tell you where the showrunners or writers changed, and could not pinpoint where the quality apparently dropped because it seemed consistent the entire time, I just ran out of patience and good will.
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Dec 12, 2023 03:00
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I started watching with Eccleston, really enjoyed Tennant, rapidly got tired of Matt Smith, and I think I watched a few episodes of Capaldi before falling off the series. Nothing against Capaldi, but the writing for Matt Smith's Doctor was just really annoying (felt like Moffat just really needed to reiterate over and over how wacky and badass the Doctor is, and failed at making either one fun) and the writing for Capaldi would've had to have been amazing for me to get back on board The campy, low budget "oh no, Earth is being taken over by fishmen wearing water tanks on their heads! What will we do?" kind of thing is exactly what appealed to me about Doctor Who. It just being kind of a dumb, silly good time. With that and some real moments of pathos (like Eccleston absolutely nailed), it made for solid TV. Matt Smith just wasn't that. I think the moment when they had like literally every major group of villains invade Earth at the same time, and Matt Smith managed to get them all to turn around by giving a speech about how he's the Doctor and he's so cool and badass that he's going to kick all their asses if they try, was just sooooo cringey. Increasingly higher stakes with dumber payoff every time
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Dec 12, 2023 04:51
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Asking Davros if he’d care for a jelly baby is peak Doctor Who.
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Dec 12, 2023 04:57
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tango alpha delta posted:I grew up watching Tom Baker. If you were 12 when Tom Baker was the Doctor, then I am vindicated.
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Dec 12, 2023 06:53
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Elissimpark posted:If you were 12 when Tom Baker was the Doctor, then I am vindicated. Doctor Who was pretty cool when I was twelve, just like the original A-Team, Battlestar Galactica, Airwolf, Blue Thunder and Knight Rider. I'm unable to stomach any of them for any reasonable length of time because, now, they are mostly unwatchable cheese and are best left as childhood memories. They've been replaced by guilty pleasures, like Smallville, or amazing television like the tale of the downfall of one of the founders of Gray Matter Technologies. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 07:14
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Waiting Room is the only good Fugazi song
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Dec 12, 2023 07:32
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I really dislike Only Murders In The Building. Do people like that show? My parents like it. I don't like it and I don't feel like articulating why but I do feel like saying it.
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Dec 12, 2023 07:40
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Ralph Hurley posted:Waiting Room is the only good Fugazi song t 
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Dec 12, 2023 07:55
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Ralph Hurley posted:Waiting Room is the only good Fugazi song Oooh, this one is spicy. I disagree, but its a great pop song and they should have more of those. The Argument is better than Repeater.
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Dec 12, 2023 07:59
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Fugazi is the anime of punk rock
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Dec 12, 2023 08:03
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Lt. Cock posted:Fugazi is the anime of punk rock 
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Dec 12, 2023 08:07
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Nigmaetcetera posted:I really dislike Only Murders In The Building. Do people like that show? My parents like it. I don't like it and I don't feel like articulating why but I do feel like saying it. I don't really know much about the show, but I really appreciate it because it totally steamrollered that horrible "Oh Hello" thing John Mulaney was trying to push on us. I really hated that poo poo.
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Dec 12, 2023 08:07
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aside from the "when you were 12" thing, kinda, it seems no one mentioned in all that that dr who is a children's show, for kids. not sure why anyone would expect decades of quality entertainment from this
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Dec 12, 2023 08:10
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syntaxfunction posted:I went from the first season of the modern Dr Who with Eccleston to the second last Capaldi season before I could t take any more. I wanted to join my friends loving the show. Deep Glove Bruno posted:aside from the "when you were 12" thing, kinda, it seems no one mentioned in all that that dr who is a children's show, for kids. not sure why anyone would expect decades of quality entertainment from this Anyway-- Sturgeon's Law necessitates that if 90% of something is garbage, that remaining 10% must be some form of not-garbage. Chrpno posted:I don't really know much about the show, but I really appreciate it because it totally steamrollered that horrible "Oh Hello" thing John Mulaney was trying to push on us. I really hated that poo poo.
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Dec 12, 2023 10:37
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Deep Glove Bruno posted:aside from the "when you were 12" thing, kinda, it seems no one mentioned in all that that dr who is a children's show, for kids. not sure why anyone would expect decades of quality entertainment from this That's bunk, because things can and do grow with their audience, and there was a vein of bleak, folk-horror/new-wave sci-fi adjacent children's programming in the UK, that just wasn't there anymore when Who rebooted to be full of WONDER! and MAGIC! Far removed from stern schoolmaster immortal cosmic beings and experimental soundtracks (and probably a slight obsession with Quatermass). https://thequietus.com/articles/12498-who-is-next-dr-who
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Dec 12, 2023 10:53
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look i am not into it, i've not participated in decades of dr who discourse to know i'm making an old point, but it remains true. the BBC absolutely produces the show as a kids show. i'm not talking baby stuff but it is a solid 8 or 10+ kind of PG threat thing. if they can, i'm sure they try to satisfy crusty diehards too, as there's a lot of them, but there's a point at which you can't expect further narrative maturity in a children's adventure simply because it started a long time ago. the BBC want it to be an ongoing institution for every generation of kids, not just the previous ones who want it to grow up with them. i think that's a good thing! this is something star wars fans who talk to kids who grew up with the prequels, or even the disney era movies, also have a problem with. they're always shocked that younger people also like best the stuff that enchanted them first as kids. I loved the original SW movies but at some point you can let go and say this isn't being made for me. if there's still some enjoyment to be had from new stuff then great, but it's incidental
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Dec 12, 2023 11:44
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You keep saying this like we don't already know. That's the problem. Did it ever once occur to you that we know, and found a peace with it that isn't willful denial?
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Dec 12, 2023 12:23
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I've seen a lot of stuff made for kids that didn't suck so I don't know if that's really a defence for why Dr Who sucks.
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Dec 12, 2023 13:55
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Deep Glove Bruno posted:look i am not into it, i've not participated in decades of dr who discourse to know i'm making an old point, but it remains true. I didn't phrase that well - I meant more that I disagree that something has to remain a kids property, just because it began as one. A friend and I had that conversation about 2000AD comics recently, but I agree that it is a children's/tweens show in the most clumsy sense. Gravity Falls, for example, is more ostensibly a kids show (a Disney Channel cartoon, even!) but has a lot for me to get my teeth into as an adult viewer (or at least one who really enjoys cryptids and Pacific Northwest Gothic) I'm not going to defend Who's honour - I don't particularly care for it; but it's twee sentimentality, lack of style and insistence on a succession of wacky uncle (and auntie) leads isn't in keeping with what it once was and still could be. It leans into the tastes and assumptions of the most Funko Pop people imaginable, regardless of their age. Kids can and do like cool stuff. To put it another way - the modern image of Dr Who isn't an interstellar sociopath loving around with time; it's an adorkable substitute drama teacher crying in the rain. That actor went on to do Marvel and Neil Gaiman properties, so he knows that chunky steampunk poly couples are paying off his mortgage, for sure. Even slight course corrections like Capaldi (casting that piqued my interest) made him "abrasive" in the least imaginative way possible - like someone's dad refusing to listen to ABBA at a wedding because he likes The Clash. Disco Pope fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 14:10
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Dr Who is a property that's all over the place. Sometimes it's a kids show, sometimes a family show (look, it's a celebrity!), sometimes it tilts into weird horror, sometimes it's science fiction, a lot of the times it's goofy humour ... It's whatever the current showrunner or scriptwriter wants it to be. Which you could look upon as a strength. Or you could get irritated that you tuned in for a strange horror piece, but this week they're doing crazy hijinks with some topical humour while the Doctor mopes about being lovesick. I watched the older series as a child and suspect the inconsistency is much greater with the new stuff. From memory, old Who had moments of wackiness but mostly played it straight.
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Dec 12, 2023 14:33
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Ralph Hurley posted:Waiting Room is the only good Fugazi song
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Dec 12, 2023 14:33
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Nigmaetcetera posted:I really dislike Only Murders In The Building. Do people like that show? My parents like it. I don't like it and I don't feel like articulating why but I do feel like saying it. The first season was kinda ok but second was boring, and reminded us why we’d stuffed Steve Martin & Martin Short into the attic. Chrpno posted:I don't really know much about the show, but I really appreciate it because it totally steamrollered that horrible "Oh Hello" thing John Mulaney was trying to push on us. I really hated that poo poo. Oh yeah it was weird how much Mulaney liked doing that bit but it didn’t feel up to his usual standards & it’s not ok to inflict that much Nick Kroll on society. Remember that guy who would ruin comedy bang bang by yelling in a Mexican accent for an hour? Would you like to see him on Broadway?
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Dec 12, 2023 15:31
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Hyrax Attack! posted:The first season was kinda ok but second was boring, and reminded us why we’d stuffed Steve Martin & Martin Short into the attic. Yeah, the first season worked as a pleasant surprise because nobody expected a Steven Martin/Martin short vehicle to have any legs at all in this decade but that only carries it so far. I still wound up watching the whole thing because it's one of the more watchable shows that some of my family is into, but there's definitely a drop off after the first season. I also feel they also leaned way harder into the generation clash jokes in season 2 and it got really grating, it was never really a highlight but in the first season it felt fairly unobtrusive. Actually, that probably applies to a lot of the gags.
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Dec 12, 2023 16:52
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Hyrax Attack! posted:The first season was kinda ok but second was boring, and reminded us why we’d stuffed Steve Martin & Martin Short into the attic. The guy who would come on CBB and casually drop the n-word?
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Dec 12, 2023 17:49
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only murders is gr8 where else will you get to hear Steve Martin say the name Del Tha Funkee Homosapien The first season was the best, obviously. They can't have their main character be the heart of the mystery more than once.
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Dec 12, 2023 19:09
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Only murders chat made me think of this: Does anyone else just forget to finish streaming shows? I've watched a bunch of partial seasons of shows that I at least enjoy a little (like only murders), but then just don't bother finishing off the season/series. I think some of it can be explained by a lot of shows having (IMO) strong first seasons and then losing their way afterwards, but that's not every show. But also, so many shows come out that get talked about EVERYWHERE for like a week or two and then you never hear about them again. Maybe just not having them front of mind makes me move on to something else. Is this a thing, or am I just forgetful?
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Dec 12, 2023 19:38
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stealie72 posted:Is this a thing, or am I just forgetful? I'll even do this with shows (or a docuseries or whatever) that are legitimately good. The wife and I watched an episode or two of the MAX documentary on the Duggars and the cult they belong to, were like "welp that's enough total loving darkness for tonight," and we've never resumed watching.
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Dec 12, 2023 19:44
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stealie72 posted:Only murders chat made me think of this: Does anyone else just forget to finish streaming shows? That happened to me with The Boys AND The Good Place. I'm glad I'm not alone here.
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Dec 12, 2023 19:48
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YeahTubaMike posted:That happened to me with The Boys AND The Good Place. I'm glad I'm not alone here. 
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Dec 12, 2023 19:49
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The 2000s Who reboot came at a time when the anglophile media boom was still in full swing and the YA/Childrens genre adventure stuff was hot and post-Prequel geek culture was starting to show a changing fandom make-up. The marketplace was lacking a quirky Buffy/Farscape type series while Trek and Star Wars were seemingly entering eras of no new media for the foreseeable future. Add into that the US side of things were seeing bigger pushes for grim and serious BSG reboots and mystery box sci fi series. Not sure how much of this affects the popularity of the reboot era of the franchise, though. If any of those things had been different, I don't know if people would have rebelled against the 'darker, more mature Who' (as some thought of it at the time) had Harry Potter not been around or if more similar counterprogramming (outside of anime) had been around.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:00
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Don't bother with the end of the Good Place, the last season is top to bottom feces.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:00
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Spoiler it’s really the bad place.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:17
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