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He could definitely raise malicious prosecution as a defense but I doubt it would work in a practical sense. More to the point though he's already facing more than a year from real charges so an added contempt charge doesn't necessarily make things any worse. I saw a plea once where a guy was charged with bribing a juror, which turned out to carry a max of ten years. He was facing like a fifty year sentence anyway on the primary charge so it turned out the bribe didn't really matter.
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Dec 13, 2023 21:41
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Shooting Blanks posted:Specifically for the contempt of Congress bit, is there any reasonable defense that would protect Hunter since Jim Jordan wasn't prosecuted? Selective prosecution, or something along those lines? IANAL, just wondering if that's relevant. I don't know if if it is reasonable but he is making a violation of the separation of powers argument.
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Dec 13, 2023 22:20
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https://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status/1735035160624541937 Is this verified?
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Dec 13, 2023 23:01
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status/1735035160624541937 It is but the phrasing out of context sounds worse than it is. The stay is a normal part of the appeals process in this case and is why Jack Smith directly petitioned SCOTUS as it will speed the appeals if they do not have to wait for the circuit court to rule first. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/trump-chutkan-trial-deadline/index.html
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Dec 13, 2023 23:37
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Opinion here: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258148/gov.uscourts.dcd.258148.186.0_1.pdf
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Dec 13, 2023 23:46
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Extremely unlikely they thought that far ahead. If Hunter does get jail time for contempt of congress, it would likely be a few months. Biden would never pardon him of a crime right before the election when the sentence is 2 or 3 months. I think it's even simpler. It's so you can put 'Biden' and 'crime' in a headline for the entire election cycle. If I was being even more cynical I would say it's just another example of Republicans trying to use the news to will reality to contort to the whims of their base. Everyone told them they were morons for going after Hunter so if they can send Hunter to jail for something it validates everything, the laptop, Guilliani, Trump's calls to investigate Biden, everything, it doesn't have to make sense to the right wing media for it to calcify.
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Dec 14, 2023 00:01
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Mendrian posted:I think it's even simpler. It's so you can put 'Biden' and 'crime' in a headline for the entire election cycle. sure but they need the squishy moderates to care and the squishy moderates believed the trump crimes because the dems proved and prestented them very well and explained stuff. the GOP basicaly has to rely on weird deep lore and qanon adjecent poo poo which most normies sitting down to watch the news wont get.
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Dec 14, 2023 00:09
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plogo posted:I don't know if if it is reasonable but he is making a violation of the separation of powers argument. Is there any sort of legal argument about the secrecy provision they could make, or for that matter could they do the "secret" testimony then demand the info be released via the Freedom of Information act? Seemed like the "secret star chamber" aspect was the real sticking point; I'm not even sure what the provisions for courts are on public trials though beyond "you have the right to face your accusers".
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Dec 14, 2023 00:11
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Mendrian posted:I think it's even simpler. It's so you can put 'Biden' and 'crime' in a headline for the entire election cycle. There's also the hope that Biden will fuckup and pardon his son and then he's just as corrupt as Trump (would be the argument)
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Dec 14, 2023 00:39
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Jesus III posted:Biden should just pardon his son at the end of his term. Trump lowered the bar so low I'd actually lose respect if he didn't. Hieronymous Alloy posted:I wouldn't fault him for it but no, he should not. It would ratify their behavior. I disagree: Hunter had a plea bargain all set to go and it got thrown out for political reasons, gently caress that poo poo.
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Dec 14, 2023 00:40
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If my read of things is right then SCOTUS ruling that yes the president can be prosecutee will basically turbocharge the timeline of all of these things because any pauses for appeals will immediately be nullified and the trial will continue.
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Dec 14, 2023 00:40
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Agents are GO! posted:I disagree: Hunter had a plea bargain all set to go and it got thrown out for political reasons, gently caress that poo poo. Sure, but presidents shouldn't pardon family members, period. Let president Harris do it if it's necessary.
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Dec 14, 2023 00:45
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status/1735035160624541937 No idea. It's telling that a few days ago every pundit was claiming trumps attempt to delay with this was not just futile but frivolous, though.
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Dec 14, 2023 00:47
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Agents are GO! posted:I'd actually lose respect if he didn't. This is true but it doesn't matter because the world is hosed. How many private citizens who have never held office have been subject to a congressional hearing because they didn't pay taxes?
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Dec 14, 2023 00:55
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cr0y posted:If my read of things is right then SCOTUS ruling that yes the president can be prosecutee will basically turbocharge the timeline of all of these things because any pauses for appeals will immediately be nullified and the trial will continue. And if the SCOTUS rules that a president can't be prosecuted for crimes during their administration, that could work, too.
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Dec 14, 2023 00:58
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Hillary Clinton was just saying a cycle ago that there are no different standards for politicians and regular folk. Now you want Biden to prove that’s not true? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 14, 2023 01:05
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:Hillary Clinton was just saying a cycle ago that there are no different standards for politicians and regular folk. Now you want Biden to prove that’s not true? I think you should defend your understanding of violence vs non violence against the critique I posted from Moral Man and Immoral Society yesterday. Furthermore your response here originates from the place of the privileged middle classes identified in that section of the analysis and how they push individual morality as societal morality. That’s an illusion and “Inasfar as it represents the illusions and deceptions of middle-class people, who never conform their own group conduct to their individual ideals, it deserves the cynical reaction of the proletarian. The illusory element must be admitted to be very large.” And furthermore no one here seems to be taking the position of Hillary Clinton or seems to be saying anything at all near what you are attributing to her.
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Dec 14, 2023 01:24
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:Hillary Clinton was just saying a cycle ago that there are no different standards for politicians and regular folk. Now you want Biden to prove that’s not true? It's obviously not true, and if she said that she was wrong, and how is that even relevant to begin with, not sure if you noticed but there aren't many folks here big on taking Clinton's word as gospel. Also Biden pardoning his son would honestly probably be closer to that ideal than simply allowing this to happen, even if there are many practical reasons for him not to do so.
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Dec 14, 2023 01:24
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Has there ever been any confirmation or rumors as to whether Trump pardoned himself before he left the White House? I assume he didn't if he's still dealing with these federal charges.
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Dec 14, 2023 01:26
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GlyphGryph posted:It's obviously not true, and if she said that she was wrong, and how is that even relevant to begin with, not sure if you noticed but there aren't many folks here big on taking Clinton's word as gospel. I’m pointing out how quickly decorum is deteriorating and it’s not just ‘one side’. Not trying to get anyone to defend Hillary
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Dec 14, 2023 01:49
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:I’m pointing out how quickly decorum is deteriorating and it’s not just ‘one side’. Not trying to get anyone to defend Hillary No one side is led by a man who had Roy Cohn, Joe McCarthy’s (paraphrased: I have a sock full of poo poo and know how to use it) HUAC lawyer as a mentor and who uses those tactics. The other side is responding to those tactics. It’s not equivalent and your assertion that it is, is spurious.
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Dec 14, 2023 01:59
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FlamingLiberal posted:Has there ever been any confirmation or rumors as to whether Trump pardoned himself before he left the White House? I assume he didn't if he's still dealing with these federal charges. One assumes he'd have pulled out the pardon by now, if only to save on legal costs / reallocate his stolen legal cost money to state cases. Donald Trump does not strike me as the sort of man to go "oh pardoning myself would make me look bad, may as well shell out these millions".
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Dec 14, 2023 02:05
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Bar Ran Dun posted:No one side is led by a man who had Roy Cohn, Joe McCarthy’s (paraphrased: I have a sock full of poo poo and know how to use it) HUAC lawyer as a mentor and who uses those tactics. So two wrongs make a right? https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/14/politics/donald-trump-pardon/index.html Trump says he didn’t fwiw. Thought pardons required convictions first but must be my misunderstanding
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Dec 14, 2023 02:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The fundamental problem with debating with a fascist is that all too often a point is quickly reached where the only appropriate responses are to either walk away or break their nose. One of those responses is frowned upon in civil society and the other doesn't result in any camera footage.  But seriously, the only reasonable reponse is to go for the nose-breaking.
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Dec 14, 2023 02:15
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:So two wrongs make a right? No your equivalency is false.
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Dec 14, 2023 02:18
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To contextualize how lovely these equivalences are today’s NYTs had this: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/13/us/politics/trump-meme-trolls-2024.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare “Their most vulgar invectives are often aimed at women, particularly those seen as enemies of Mr. Trump. In one video, the former United Nations ambassador Nikki Haley’s face is pasted on the body of a nearly naked woman, who kicks a man with the face of Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida in the groin. Another depicts Casey DeSantis, the governor’s wife, as a porn star. Women with ties to Mr. DeSantis are often shown with red knees, suggesting they have performed a sex act.” Don’t pretend the two parties are anywhere even near being on the same planet.
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Dec 14, 2023 02:38
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Bar Ran Dun posted:To contextualize how lovely these equivalences are today’s NYTs had this: How does this justify nepotism?
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Dec 14, 2023 02:46
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:How does this justify nepotism? Your definition of nepotism here seems to infer that Democratic politicians should be willing to suffer politically motivated judicial outcomes aimed at their family members out of some sense of duty to the constitution or something. Biden refusing to exercise his legal right to protect his son won't win over a single fascist, so who the gently caress cares if he uses it to keep his lovely son out of prison? I personally don't give a poo poo either way but every President uses the power of the pardon to help out people in their extended or not so extended circles. All the norms are dead so gently caress it who cares. Hunter has already benefitted from poo poo tons of nepotism in his life and I don't see anyone rushing to enact laws to prevent that sort of poo poo from happing, and I'd argue that's way worse for society than this one instance of a dad helping his family. Biden has done a million other things worth getting mad about. Helping his obviously troubled son out of a fatherly sense of love is something that would actually make me like him more. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Dec 14, 2023 |
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Dec 14, 2023 02:52
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:How does this justify nepotism? It doesn’t it contextualizes the tactics of Trumpism, poo poo in a sock. Second, Biden isn’t going to pardon his son. You are objecting to the sentiment that some folks wouldn’t find it objectionable if he did. Conflating pretty nasty stuff and nasty acts with a sentiment that isn’t even an act (and that isn’t even that objectionable of a sentiment).
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Dec 14, 2023 02:56
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If Biden was truly a wise leader, he would merely cut his son in half.
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Dec 14, 2023 02:57
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:How does this justify nepotism? Pardoning someone who is literally only being prosecuted to make a political opponent look bad on tv seems like a perfectly valid use of the pardon power to me. That it might look like nepotism is why he wont do it, but Hunter is literally only being prosecuted because there are two different standards being used - pardoning him would be closer to the justice ideal you are citing to dismiss it, its a dumb lovely argument even if you helieved it, and you havent even said you believed it! If you have a problem with it, say that instead of requesting we argue with your delusional straw men. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Dec 14, 2023 |
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Dec 14, 2023 05:35
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mutata posted:If Biden was truly a wise leader, he would merely cut his son in half. Can I have the upper left half? Assuming we're cutting on a diagonal here.
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Dec 14, 2023 05:39
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Nervous posted:Can I have the upper left half? Assuming we're cutting on a diagonal here. Dibs on the middle part
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Dec 14, 2023 06:10
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GlyphGryph posted:Pardoning someone who is literally only being prosecuted to make a political opponent look bad on tv seems like a perfectly valid use of the pardon power to me. That it might look like nepotism is why he wont do it, but Hunter is literally only being prosecuted because there are two different standards being used - pardoning him would be closer to the justice ideal you are citing to dismiss it, its a dumb lovely argument even if you helieved it, and you havent even said you believed it! He was only being prosecuted because they spent 4 years looking into silly claims that he was a conduit for Joe Biden to recieve bribes from China and Russian-backed Kazach oligarchs in Ukraine, but the new charges that they are alleging are legit crimes. They haven't made any evidence about the new claims public yet, but if they are true, then failing to pay a million dollars in taxes and filing a tax return saying you earned way less money because you wanted to spend your money on drugs and escorts instead of paying taxes is still a real crime. The lying about never doing drugs on his gun form is also a real crime, but one that is basically never actually prosecuted and most likely unconstitutional thanks to the current Supreme Court's recent gun rulings. There is a certain level of unfairness in that almost nobody is ever actually prosecuted for some of those original crimes and some of the original claims were bogus, but if they new allegations are true, then they are legit crimes and its also not fair to just pardon him when other people who get busted for tax evasion go to jail.
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Dec 14, 2023 06:53
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Wrap it up Bidenailures, 1 in 5 people commited voter fraud last election.quote:ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, IL (December 12, 2023) – A new poll by The Heartland Institute and Rasmussen Reports found one-in-five voters who cast mail-in ballots during the 2020 presidential election admit to participating in at least one kind of voter fraud.
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Dec 14, 2023 08:03
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Jaxyon posted:Wrap it up Bidenailures, 1 in 5 people commited voter fraud last election. I will not rest until 20% of the voters in this country are behind bars!
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Dec 14, 2023 08:04
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Joe should pardon Hunter because gently caress the Republicans. Also because Hunter kicks rear end, every single news item about him for years has been like "Hunter Biden just did an inhuman amount of coke during an orgy with the five most attractive women in the Americas, then drove into the night in a 3 million dollar Italian car at 235mph." Like we're supposed to dislike this guy? The only issue I have is I'm not attractive enough to get hired by him.
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Dec 14, 2023 08:58
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Agents are GO! posted:I will not rest until 20% of the voters in this country are behind bars! 10÷... of 154.6 million voters. With about 5 million adults under supervision, we are already a third of the way there!
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Dec 14, 2023 09:06
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Ms Adequate posted:Joe should pardon Hunter because gently caress the Republicans. “In court filings in April, Roberts said Hunter Biden “has never seen or contacted” his four-year-old daughter and that President Biden and first lady Jill Biden “remain estranged” from their grandchild.” https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/06/29/politics/hunter-biden-lunden-roberts-arkansas-child-support-case/index.html Really cool dude. Deny existence of hooker baby and hide income for years to avoid accountability. She’s really going to love getting some of those paintings of his. He’s been objectively guilty of these crimes, yet perception here is he’s only charged because who he is. This is some double standard pretending that regular people don’t get charged with these things. Yes, politicians do hold themselves to higher standards, even if partly just for show. Even the Clintons liquidated their trusts in her run up https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/us/politics/15clintons.html In Biden’s it’s clear he’s not really been concerned about amassing wealth. I can respect this https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2021/06/10/heres-how-much-joe-biden-is-worth/?sh=7017f138461b But that never stopped his brother and deadbeat son from trying to cash in. These are things decades ago the parties had no issue making members get in line. You can’t be the ‘good party’ yet be hypocritical when push comes to shove. Republicans are doing fine to show this, it does resonate with many.
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Dec 14, 2023 11:35
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You've convinced me. No way I'll vote for Hunter Biden now
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Dec 14, 2023 12:37
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