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Kefa posted:so no one actually escapes??? I think that everyone has actually escaped. The room they were in is where the Dark Place has overwritten reality in Bright Falls, and with the new version of the ending the town is back to normal. That's why Logan is able to answer the phone call from Saga.
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Dec 24, 2023 07:29
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The new ending + small tidbits in NG+ felt included just because they realized people would play through the game once and not understand what happened in the story - which does seem to be a recurring issue, so I do understand the thinking. I just wish they'd actually done more to change things up for a replay, turns out having all upgrades doesn't really change the gameplay all that much. And I feel like tweaking enemy placements all throughout the game could have gone a long way and wouldn't necessarily been a ton of work, but it's also clear they didn't want to spend much time or money on something most people wouldn't go through.
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Dec 24, 2023 07:32
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The phrase "walking simulator" needs to be deleted from the global human consciousness because there's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach besides it rubbing against some people's preconceptions of what a game "should" be doing.
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Dec 24, 2023 07:47
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:The phrase "walking simulator" needs to be deleted from the global human consciousness because there's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach besides it rubbing against some people's preconceptions of what a game "should" be doing. e: and to clarify, AW2 is not a walking simulator by any reasonable definition. Sometimes you spend some time walking and not shooting at things, feels like that should be fine for an action-horror game to do. smuh fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 08:06
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I kind of felt like the puzzles were the weakest parts of the gameplay in RE and SH. I understand the intent is to break-up the combat a little bit, but especially SH wants you to think about irrelevant stuff a bit too much. And 'walking simulator' absolutely gets use derogatorily, especially as a 'gameplay description', Kefa was even disapprovingly calling AW2 a walking simulator, even though the gameplay is pretty much identical to AW1 in the core aspects.
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Dec 24, 2023 09:14
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People who still use “walking simulator” in a pejorative sense these days are kind of telling on themselves.
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Dec 24, 2023 09:19
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Kchama posted:I kind of felt like the puzzles were the weakest parts of the gameplay in RE and SH. I understand the intent is to break-up the combat a little bit, but especially SH wants you to think about irrelevant stuff a bit too much. You're thinking more on the RE side of things imo, which are often literal machines used to synthesize items for later use, or progression-blocking items you remove from their places. Silent Hill is known for having its riddles and puzzles unlock doors primarily, but pertain to the characters metaphorically no matter how out there they may get (intense Shakespearean knowledge, anyone?). Instead, Alan Wake goes for its own third thing in the form of puzzles which ask you to examine the environment you're already getting immersed in, and that's valid too! I can see how that approach would lead folks down the path of considering it a 'walking simulator', going by the idea that indeed it's just as much about examining the environment as it is solving those. But, y'know. That impression itself doesn't make it one! There's more to it than that by far. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 09:21
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CJacobs posted:You're thinking more on the RE side of things imo, which are often literal machines used to synthesize items for later use, or progression-blocking items you remove from their places. Silent Hill is known for having its riddles and puzzles unlock doors primarily, but pertain to the characters metaphorically no matter how out there they may get (intense Shakespearean knowledge, anyone?). Instead, Alan Wake goes for its own third thing in the form of puzzles which ask you to examine the environment you're already getting immersed in, and that's valid too! I can see how that approach would lead folks down the path of considering it a 'walking simulator', going by the idea that indeed it's just as much about examining the environment as it is solving those. Oh, I wasn't intending to say that RE doesn't have thinking, it's just that its thinking is usually associated with physical progression, whereas you mentioned the exact puzzle I was thinking of when I called it 'irrelevant thinking'. It's not bad, but I usually lean to lighter puzzles. The biggest difference between RE/SH and AW2 with its puzzling is that AW2's environmental puzzles (which I see as lighter puzzles, but that's not a slam on them) are pretty strictly optional and for loot instead of pure plot progression. Both are fine. A good game should have you inspecting the environment anyways.
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Dec 24, 2023 10:32
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Kchama posted:The biggest difference between RE/SH and AW2 with its puzzling is that AW2's environmental puzzles (which I see as lighter puzzles, but that's not a slam on them) are pretty strictly optional and for loot instead of pure plot progression. That's not true though, just of the top of my head you have to look around the environment to figure out the safe code for the trailer key, the pad lock for the motorcycle garage office and Alan has stuff like the pass code for the backstage doors twice( Neighbour of the Beast & the other one).
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Dec 24, 2023 10:38
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Hel posted:That's not true though, just of the top of my head you have to look around the environment to figure out the safe code for the trailer key, the pad lock for the motorcycle garage office and Alan has stuff like the pass code for the backstage doors twice( Neighbour of the Beast & the other one). Eh, you're right. I just wrongly didn't think of them as 'environmental puzzles' because you're looking for things to access important things. Either way, they perfectly fine puzzles for a survival horror game.
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Dec 24, 2023 10:48
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Evil Kit posted:Also I hear people mention jumpscares but I didn't even notice a single one. Maybe I'm just inoculated to jump scares but if the game had any they were pretty tame and decently signaled. Hey that's great man. Anyway can you play through this for me 
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Dec 24, 2023 11:06
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I personally prefer AW2's puzzles, even if they're often more frustrating. There's something about the video-gameyness of the RE puzzles that feels like a relic of 2000s game design.
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Dec 24, 2023 11:11
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The big difference is pretty much that in AW, keys are keys , rather than emblems or cranks, and codes are just keypads rather than than a sequence of stone tablets or swords. Functionally, they are the same, just with different flavour. Edit: I'd say most. You still have rituals, which are functionally keys, but are weird items. They are the exception and part of the narrative rather than just background radiation. And also the horror favourite of replacing fuses. Hel fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 11:35
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Hel posted:The big difference is pretty much that in AW, keys are keys , rather than emblems or cranks, and codes are just keypads rather than than a sequence of stone tablets or swords. Functionally, they are the same, just with different flavour. they are algebra puzzles too
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Dec 24, 2023 11:42
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SirSamVimes posted:they are algebra puzzles too Only smart people can solve puzzles, Jaako.
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Dec 24, 2023 11:54
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Hel posted:The big difference is pretty much that in AW, keys are keys , rather than emblems or cranks, and codes are just keypads rather than than a sequence of stone tablets or swords. Functionally, they are the same, just with different flavour. Alan Wake II does get close to it at many points: searching for orbs as Alan so you can get words to rewrite stories, the overlap -> boss battle -> waters receding loop as Saga. But for the most part I felt more I was playing a story, not a video game.
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Dec 24, 2023 11:57
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SirSamVimes posted:they are algebra puzzles too Sure, but in the end, you put the answer on a keypad or pad lock, rather than mixing 6 red chemical , 6 blue chemical and a voltage of 5 to melt a padlock. Because outside of Die Hard 3 those puzzles aren't really part of the detective stories AW are taking inspiration from. Older survival horror series are closer to the adventure game roots where those types of puzzles were more common.
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Dec 24, 2023 11:58
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Alan Awake. Hey, Sam Lake send me a million finnosh kroner for this
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Dec 24, 2023 12:12
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I think my opinion on AW2 kind of tracks with my opinion on Twin Peaks (which feels right because it feels like Remedy is trying to make video game Twin Peaks) - I found it interesting, at at times striking, but never was as into the whole as much as everyone else. I still haven’t gone back to finish out Alan’s remaining chapters in the game because I just don’t find it all that much fun to play. It’s a little weird to me that it’s claiming GOTY in some places because the game part is pretty mid, and the story is really fragmented and incoherent in a lot of ways (at least for me). Anyway the game peaked pretty early at the musical chapter and it felt like it had shown the best of its tricks to me at that point.
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Dec 24, 2023 12:15
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VanillaGorilla posted:I think my opinion on AW2 kind of tracks with my opinion on Twin Peaks (which feels right because it feels like Remedy is trying to make video game Twin Peaks) - I found it interesting, at at times striking, but never was as into the whole as much as everyone else. I agree in factual sense. Gameplay kinda sucks, story makes little sense yet for some reason I find it pleasant to think back about this game and happy when it gets awards. It's kind of like Darling fans in Control. He sucks and there is way too much of him but people love him. What I find the most pleasing is how Remedy sticks to their mythology. It is not just a game but kind of a world which is fun to think about Sekenr fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 12:24
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Kchama posted:That spot added like two weeks to the time it took me to beat the game, because there was a chair in the way to the kitchen in the back you have to go through and it blocked me from progressing. Prolly would have been easy to push past normally, but it was different to do that WHILE dodging instakill attacks from multiple people. Not quite sure what you're taking about here. This TV spot is in the Diner before the townsfolk go aggro. You pop in the front door to the Diner and head to the back left corner next to the jukebox. No chairs or anything should be in your way.
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Dec 24, 2023 12:39
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Kin posted:Not quite sure what you're taking about here. This TV spot is in the Diner before the townsfolk go aggro. Yes, I know, but the Deerfest section is where I got stuck. It's like a 5 second walk from the TV spot, so it's the same section. Trust me, I played it like 500 times trying to fix the bug. Partially because it turns out they forgot to disable the same spot in the room on the right that's open and I was desperate to do anything to get through and saved there....
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Dec 24, 2023 13:29
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Sekenr posted:Alan Awake. Hey, Sam Lake send me a million finnosh kroner for this They were already using "I am awake - Alan Wake" as a silly tagline in this early demo. At that point the backstory was that Alan suffers from insomnia, heh. https://youtu.be/IJAxpwqtQmw?t=286
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Dec 24, 2023 13:41
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Kefa posted:What did you think of the first game? Tbh? Half remembered watching on an LP a long time ago. The general sentiment of it being linear with cool set pieces and leaning entirely too much on the relatively simple combat loop is my impression of it, as well as remembering the plot point of Alan jumping into the Dark Place to save Alice. And indeed saving her, but at cost. I might grab the remaster at some point and play it through, but I doubt I'd change my mind on AW2 being a far superior game. The combat is sparse but the enemies are far more threatening, while the sparseness of enemies gives you some space to breath and absorb what's going in with the plot and atmosphere of the game. goblin week posted:Hey that's great man. Anyway can you play through this for me goondolances but if you wanna hit me with a reference to dunk on me you're gonna have to be more upfront with what it is. Random guess, is this from Spooky's Jumpscare Mansion?
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Dec 24, 2023 16:31
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Sekenr posted:I agree in factual sense. Gameplay kinda sucks, story makes little sense yet for some reason I find it pleasant to think back about this game and happy when it gets awards. Yeah, to be clear, I'm not like MAD it's winning awards, and I think that the things the game does well (chiefly the dream that Remedy has been chasing for a while - blending different kinds of media together), it does really well. Like I said, the musical level is really fantastic. I do, however, think that it gets a lot of credit for being different and experimental and that critics are kind of handwaiving away some of the more fundamental parts of the experience. I can see it in a top 5 but I just don't get how it tops a BG3 or a TOTK in this year.
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Dec 24, 2023 16:38
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:The phrase "walking simulator" needs to be deleted from the global human consciousness because there's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach besides it rubbing against some people's preconceptions of what a game "should" be doing. I don’t agree, that’s definitely a genre. what remains of edith finch and what remains of edith finch are both great games that can be described as walking simulators. The gameplay there is literally just walking around and enjoying the story and atmosphere. Which I don’t think is a bad thing at all, I was very impressed by both games when they came out. My issue with Alan is that from the things I’d heard about the game I thought it would be more like resident evil, maybe even with some side quests inside the towns to get you exploring the towns more. But the game didn’t deliver on that end. Which sure you can say is my fault since no one told me it would have any of that. I actually did have fun with it, mostly Saga’s story though since Alan’s felt like a fever dream, which while I understand was the point, wasn’t really fun. Like for example one of my issues with the game is the amount of “levels” where you get stuck in a loop as Alan and all you have to do is keep moving forward. And then you get teleported places left and right.
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Dec 24, 2023 16:39
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Evil Kit posted:Tbh? Half remembered watching on an LP a long time ago. The general sentiment of it being linear with cool set pieces and leaning entirely too much on the relatively simple combat loop is my impression of it, as well as remembering the plot point of Alan jumping into the Dark Place to save Alice. And indeed saving her, but at cost. To be fair I think I liked AW a lot because of its very unique atmosphere and setting for a video game. The combat was rear end but not too bad, especially if you play on easy to skip it as much as possible. And then Control came out which also had the same style but also fun gameplay. AW2 didn’t feel as unique to me anymore of course so the trick of fever-dreamy way of storytelling didn’t do it for me this time.
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Dec 24, 2023 16:45
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AfricanBootyShine posted:I personally prefer AW2's puzzles, even if they're often more frustrating. There's something about the video-gameyness of the RE puzzles that feels like a relic of 2000s game design. yeah thats whats good about it
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Dec 24, 2023 16:48
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like honestly i liked the puzzles that were in AW2 but it needed more variety than "solve a box riddle and gently caress around with some dolls" repeatedly
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Dec 24, 2023 16:48
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Kchama posted:Yes, I know, but the Deerfest section is where I got stuck. It's like a 5 second walk from the TV spot, so it's the same section. I've just finished that again in ng+ and nothing you're saying makes sense. That last part (deer fest) is a super linear section with no exploration outside of being able to go into the front section of the diner to get the TV ad next to the jukebox. You can't go into the back area of the diner as there are people blocking it. You can't get into the safe area of the lodge because it's not the route you're supposed to take (you have to go left around the chimney before going out the back through the kitchen) or you get murdered every time. The game is riddled with bugs but I've never seen anything like what you're describing for the end of the game by anyone online.
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Dec 24, 2023 16:53
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Feels Villeneuve posted:like honestly i liked the puzzles that were in AW2 but it needed more variety than "solve a box riddle and gently caress around with some dolls" repeatedly i think the bigger puzzles involving the plot board and the lamp were pretty cool but there weren't a lot of them (for obvious, making games is hard reasons)
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Dec 24, 2023 16:54
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VanillaGorilla posted:Yeah, to be clear, I'm not like MAD it's winning awards, and I think that the things the game does well (chiefly the dream that Remedy has been chasing for a while - blending different kinds of media together), it does really well. Like I said, the musical level is really fantastic. Not that I want to get in a whole GOTY debate as I don't find them edifying, but I will say I played TOTK this year and it was certainly good but, looking back, essentially forgettable - in that I lost interest and never finished it and I don't really remember many details of the experience. For all that AW2 is an imperfect experience and less polished than TOTK, in terms of being an interesting and memorable artistic and narrative experience it tops it, and that for me is what I'm looking for in a game. (Not played BG3 but by all accounts it is incredible and if I had I suspect it would be my GOTY!)
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Dec 24, 2023 17:02
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Kefa posted:To be fair I think I liked AW a lot because of its very unique atmosphere and setting for a video game. The combat was rear end but not too bad, especially if you play on easy to skip it as much as possible. And then Control came out which also had the same style but also fun gameplay. AW2 didn’t feel as unique to me anymore of course so the trick of fever-dreamy way of storytelling didn’t do it for me this time. I agree AW2 isn't gonna win any awards for unique combat gameplay but it was still satisfying and fun. Don't need to reinvent the wheel, just gotta make the wheel look and sound great when it's doing the job it's supposed to do. Kin posted:I've just finished that again in ng+ and nothing you're saying makes sense. There's a patch note from the official website for Alan Wake 2 that actually supports the claim of this specific bug, though like most things it was written vaguely enough you couldn't thumb the Deerfest chair as the specific thing that was fixed Alan Wake 2 Patchnotes posted:
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Dec 24, 2023 17:11
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Alan Wake 2 definitely didn't hit for me the way it did some people, dunno why exactly. I'd almost say it feels like a good game in Remedies new connected universe but a poor sequel to Alan Wake, the game I've waited 13 years for cause I really did enjoy Alan Wake 1, probably more than it deserved. I haven't done the New Game + yet cause it's not a game I feel the need to replay that soon, I'll play the DLC when that comes out though. I don't think playing the NG+ will resolve the issues I had with the plot though.
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Dec 24, 2023 17:12
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thebardyspoon posted:Alan Wake 2 definitely didn't hit for me the way it did some people, dunno why exactly. I'd almost say it feels like a good game in Remedies new connected universe but a poor sequel to Alan Wake, the game I've waited 13 years for cause I really did enjoy Alan Wake 1, probably more than it deserved. I haven't done the New Game + yet cause it's not a game I feel the need to replay that soon, I'll play the DLC when that comes out though. I don't think playing the NG+ will resolve the issues I had with the plot though. Did you play the Remastered or replay AW1 recently? That's how I feel and I'm just curious if it's all just the nostalgia or if I do like the first game more.
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Dec 24, 2023 17:16
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AW1 is not very good and especially the first half, even if you didn't know what happened with it you could probably tell it was really troubled in development
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Dec 24, 2023 17:26
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like there's this entire chapter in the first half which is just a bunch of areas with short cutscenes connecting them with very little coherence that comes off as "gently caress we've got a bunch of maps, just shove them all together in a chapter"
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Dec 24, 2023 17:27
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Kefa posted:Did you play the Remastered or replay AW1 recently? That's how I feel and I'm just curious if it's all just the nostalgia or if I do like the first game more. I last replayed Alan Wake 1 in 2018 on PC and enjoyed it still but obviously the reveals had less impact. I think it was my first time playing the DLC and then American Nightmare as well. It is a flawed game of course, like only 3 enemy types if you count the birds and possessed objects and they use the "camera pans over to a group of 3 enemies emerging from the fog slowly" setup a whole hell of a lot but I think I found the very propellant nature of the story/gameplay more engaging than 2s setup. Alot of the early parts of 1 are you moving through the countryside or like, rusted Americana in a quite linear fashion, the atmosphere is very spooky and they seem to be quite confident in their environments, enemies and the fog to do the work of unnerving you. The only part of 2 that really hit in the way I was hoping the entire game would was Coffee World tbh, that felt like a good relatively linear exploratory sequence that used the enemies and mechanics quite well. Also Watery and Coffee World capture that whole, economically depressed small town feeling very well.
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Dec 24, 2023 17:34
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thebardyspoon posted:The only part of 2 that really hit in the way I was hoping the entire game would was Coffee World tbh, that felt like a good relatively linear exploratory sequence that used the enemies and mechanics quite well. Also Watery and Coffee World capture that whole, economically depressed small town feeling very well. That's actually exactly how I felt too. Those were fun to explore. I liked being able to explore Bright Falls too. Not much to explore to be honest, but still cool.
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Dec 24, 2023 17:44
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Speaking of AW1, I always found that game bizarrely easy, even on the hardest difficulty. It's a weird contrast to AW2 where on NG+ fully upgraded I died a whole bunch due to enemies throwing axes through trees (repeatedly and obviously, it's actually insane how those things have no collision), enemies ganging up to sprint right to my face and not allowing me to heal or reload, and Alan sometimes dying to two hits (some kind of an adaptable difficulty issue..?). As much as I do think AW2 is a much better game as a package, I don't really understand how they took so many steps back in core combat. I get slowing the overall pacing down made them rethink things but the dodge as it is is probably the worst and most unsatisfying in all gaming here.
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Dec 24, 2023 17:55
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