The US will lose WW3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

zetamind2000: Nov 6, 2007; ~~I'm an alien.~~

Cerebral Bore posted:

(allegedly) most powerful navy in the world unprepared for a prolonged conflict against country whose navy consists of like a dozen upgunned motorboats

command and conquer generals 2 looking pretty good

# ? Dec 25, 2023 08:42

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# ? May 25, 2024 02:44

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

atelier morgan posted:

p much, the 'effective multiple warhead missile' already exists, it's ~~whatever drone or plane you fired your missile from~~ a box truck with a launch sled

# ? Dec 25, 2023 08:49

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

FuzzySlippers posted:

I've always wondered if there was some reason that old anime space stuff always has those crazy giant mirv clouds of missiles. Probably just a popular cartoon randomly did it and the rest copied but I thought they also could be responding to something specific.

Reminds me that I never finished the long rear end Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

It was because of this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichir%C5%8D_Itano

# ? Dec 25, 2023 09:01

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

When my dad played Master of Orion 2, he always won early game wars by mass producing scout-size ships that did nothing but carry as many nuclear missiles as the hull could fit. The battle would start, he'd unload dozens and dozens of missiles, then he'd order all but one ship to retreat, and the one remaining ship would run away while the missiles would fly to their targets, destroy the much bigger and much more expensive cruisers and battleships, then he'd win.

# ? Dec 25, 2023 09:19

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/AryJeay/status/1738943576942215252

quote:

🚨🇾🇪BREAKING: AnsarAllah political bureau spokesman:

While a reconnaissance drone from the Yemeni Navy was conducting a reconnaissance mission in the Red Sea, a US warship fired multiple weapons frantically, demonstrating a state of confusion and anxiety.

One of the missiles exploded near a ship heading south in the Red Sea, belonging to the Republic of Gabon, coming from Russian ports. We confirm that the threat to international maritime navigation arises from the militarization of the Red Sea by the US and its allies entering the region without any justification other than providing security services to the ships of the Israeli enemy entity.

The Red Sea will become a volatile area if the United States and its allies continue their thuggish behavior. Coastal countries of the Red Sea must realize the true risks threatening their national security.

who would win one dji mavic boy or a 2 billion dollar ship

# ? Dec 25, 2023 09:26

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

gradenko_2000 posted:

When my dad played Master of Orion 2, he always won early game wars by mass producing scout-size ships that did nothing but carry as many nuclear missiles as the hull could fit. The battle would start, he'd unload dozens and dozens of missiles, then he'd order all but one ship to retreat, and the one remaining ship would run away while the missiles would fly to their targets, destroy the much bigger and much more expensive cruisers and battleships, then he'd win.

MOO1/2 were such great games. I'm not sure why none of the many space 4x games over the year have been near as fun. Same for fantasy 4x and MoM for that matter. Sad day when Simtex closed.

Cheap missile boat swarms have been a solid strategy in most space strategy games over the decades. The answer had always been there.

# ? Dec 25, 2023 09:44

samogonka: Nov 5, 2016

waiting for the first newborns to be named after dji mavic

# ? Dec 25, 2023 09:45

samogonka: Nov 5, 2016

the ak 47 of the 21st century

# ? Dec 25, 2023 09:47

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

USN in 1980: able to fight a 2 front war against USSR and China
USN in 2023: gets owned by a $2000 troll drone

# ? Dec 25, 2023 10:00

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

FuzzySlippers posted:

MOO1/2 were such great games. I'm not sure why none of the many space 4x games over the year have been near as fun.

complexity for the sake of complexity

# ? Dec 25, 2023 14:28

Boat Stuck: Apr 20, 2021; I tried to sneak through the canal, man! Can't make it, can't make it, the ship's stuck! Outta my way son! BOAT STUCK! BOAT STUCK!

Cross posting from the Ukraine thread:

https://www.ft.com/content/69d83a44-1feb-4d6b-865d-9fb827b85578

paywall bypass:

https://archive.is/I6Gmk

quote:

The west�s Russia oil ban, one year on

How a shadow fleet undermined the price cap

...

Flows of Russian oil into Europe, previously its biggest export market, have shrunk to a trickle. Instead, millions of barrels are shipped every day from Russia�s western ports on the Baltic Sea and Black sea, on a circuitous journey to new buyers, mainly in India, China and Turkey.

But while the EU embargo has been effective in choking off most supplies into the bloc, western officials have acknowledged that 12 months later almost none of the Russian crude flowing to new buyers is selling at under $60 a barrel.

�In the first quarter the cap worked well, in Q2 Russia started to find ways around it, in Q3 the cap was almost over and now in Q4 the cap is definitely done,� said Maximilian Hess, founder of political risk group Enmetena Advisory.

The near universal violation of the price cap has been made possible by weaknesses in enforcement but also by Russia�s success in building a network of vessels, such as the Astro Sculptor, to move its oil, outside the reach of the G7.

...

Kyiv School of Economics, which has been studying evasion of the price cap, estimated that in October, 99 per cent of seaborne exports of Russian crude were sold at prices above $60 a barrel. Of those shipments, 71 per cent involved vessels and service providers outside of G7 countries, up from only 20 per cent in April 2022.

...

The challenge for the US and other western governments is that much of Russia�s new crude system has no need for western service providers.

�Russia�s been quite successful at building up its own fleet, finding alternative insurance, building an ecosystem of people who can help move crude and products� said Ben Cahill, a senior fellow at US-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, who has studied the west�s energy sanctions on Moscow. �It�s hard to put the genie back in the bottle.�

It turns out moving numbers around in a Lloyds of London database is not as important as all those think tanks thought! Better get used to a lot more of that in the years to come.

# ? Dec 25, 2023 19:52

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

capitalists stared at spreadsheets so long they became convinced there is only exchange value

# ? Dec 25, 2023 20:58

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

Raskolnikov38 posted:

capitalists stared at spreadsheets so long they became convinced there is only exchange value

it is grimly funny that the rise of neoliberalism is correlated with the replacement of office workers doing computations by spreadsheets

# ? Dec 25, 2023 21:29

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Boat Stuck posted:

Cross posting from the Ukraine thread:

https://www.ft.com/content/69d83a44-1feb-4d6b-865d-9fb827b85578

paywall bypass:

https://archive.is/I6Gmk

It turns out moving numbers around in a Lloyds of London database is not as important as all those think tanks thought! Better get used to a lot more of that in the years to come.

Called it the day they barred Russia from using their services. What they really thought nobody else could create an alternate version? I guess so.

Lloyds of London more like Legacy of Hubris.

# ? Dec 25, 2023 21:36

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

DancingShade posted:

Legacy of Hubris.

if that isn�t already the title of an RPG I�m stealing it

# ? Dec 25, 2023 22:44

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

Palladium posted:

USN in 1980: able to fight a 2 front war against USSR and China
USN in 2023: gets owned by a $2000 troll drone

its extra funny to me because its completely solvable. there is no reason to intercept a shahed with a million+ dollar missile, im sure there exists a solution to this problem

it just doesn't make the right people richer & more powerful

lol, lmao sucks to be a sailor

# ? Dec 26, 2023 06:51

BearsBearsBears: Aug 4, 2022

Delta-Wye posted:

its extra funny to me because its completely solvable. there is no reason to intercept a shahed with a million+ dollar missile, im sure there exists a solution to this problem

it just doesn't make the right people richer & more powerful

lol, lmao sucks to be a sailor

The solution is anti-air cannons. Bring back Flak guns. I don't know what size shells would work best but they would be cheaper than the current missile interceptors. Use those fancy computers and radars to determine where to fire the shells and set the appropriate distance fuze and just fire a few dozen rounds at each Shahed.

# ? Dec 26, 2023 06:59

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

BearsBearsBears posted:

The solution is anti-air cannons. Bring back Flak guns. I don't know what size shells would work best but they would be cheaper than the current missile interceptors. Use those fancy computers and radars to determine where to fire the shells and set the appropriate distance fuze and just fire a few dozen rounds at each Shahed.

in principle i don't see why a phalanx ciws or similar wouldn't sit in this role nicely for simpler drones, but i haven't seen it used in ukraine at all for whatever reason

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:06

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

BearsBearsBears posted:

The solution is anti-air cannons. Bring back Flak guns. I don't know what size shells would work best but they would be cheaper than the current missile interceptors. Use those fancy computers and radars to determine where to fire the shells and set the appropriate distance fuze and just fire a few dozen rounds at each Shahed.

Imagine the stress and vibrations of mounting pom pom guns on modern aluminium superstructure frigates.

What would you take off to mount them? Sacrifice the entire heli deck?

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:16

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Delta-Wye posted:

in principle i don't see why a phalanx ciws or similar wouldn't sit in this role nicely for simpler drones, but i haven't seen it used in ukraine at all for whatever reason

The range on them is really poo poo compared to actual AAA

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:21

Stairmaster: Jun 8, 2012

Destroyers already have five inch Dual purpose guns. The hull can handle a bit of recoil I think

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:21

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Stairmaster posted:

Destroyers already have five inch Dual purpose guns. The hull can handle a bit of recoil I think

I think the shells for naval deck guns cost a bit though. Maybe not as much as a missile but probably still multiples of a flying lawnmower looking to drain the magazine.

You know what. Reflecting on it there isn't a solution because anything that can be implemented is simply going to not be cost effective because of the inherant grift required for such a project to see fruition.

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:37

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

BearsBearsBears posted:

The solution is anti-air cannons. Bring back Flak guns. I don't know what size shells would work best but they would be cheaper than the current missile interceptors. Use those fancy computers and radars to determine where to fire the shells and set the appropriate distance fuze and just fire a few dozen rounds at each Shahed.

I had been curious why I have seen no one doing it. I wasn't sure if there was some technical reason or just too low tech and boring. If nazis could throw up an entire sky full of flak every night even as they lost the war flak can't be too expensive, can it? It's not like you need to get a direct hit to bring down a repurposed quadcopter

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:41

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

went looking for antishahed examples
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/14skfo3/an_antishahed_system_in_action/
this poo poo sucks so much

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:43

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5_F4_Eod8

this is better. future wunderwaffen opportunity????

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:49

BearsBearsBears: Aug 4, 2022

DancingShade posted:

I think the shells for naval deck guns cost a bit though. Maybe not as much as a missile but probably still multiples of a flying lawnmower looking to drain the magazine.

You know what. Reflecting on it there isn't a solution because anything that can be implemented is simply going to not be cost effective because of the inherant grift required for such a project to see fruition.

It's a solvable problem for nations that aren't the US, just build factories that can build tonnes of naval shells on the cheap. China will have this problem licked. Cheap and plentiful naval shells plus interdiction of enemy drones (exploding enemy drone launchers before they can launch their drones) can bring the industrial cost of the war to (roughly) matching levels.

There's also a another technology that's been developed to cheaply counter enemy drones. It's a UAV that's tethered to the ground and is designed to physically intercept the enemy drones. They're easier to use on fixed positions and are more effective if layered.

The Brits used these to counter the primitive UAVs that the Nazis were using to attack London and the Americans used them to secure the beacheheads against air attack after the D-Day landings.

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 08:03 on Dec 26, 2023

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:56

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Delta-Wye posted:

in principle i don't see why a phalanx ciws or similar wouldn't sit in this role nicely for simpler drones, but i haven't seen it used in ukraine at all for whatever reason

whoops grifts left, right, center and all the way down

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:56

Complications: Jun 19, 2014

FuzzySlippers posted:

I had been curious why I have seen no one doing it. I wasn't sure if there was some technical reason or just too low tech and boring. If nazis could throw up an entire sky full of flak every night even as they lost the war flak can't be too expensive, can it? It's not like you need to get a direct hit to bring down a repurposed quadcopter

Yeah, the way you cost effectively deal with cheap drones is bullets and old school radar fused flak. You can get away with a smaller caliber SPAAG on land because there's more cover around and you can keep the things a distance away from what you're defending, but on the water a Tunguska equivalent would let them get a bit too close for comfort to the ships. Hilariously 5in DP guns would be just about perfect. Plus, those shells are small enough that a modern ship several times the size of WW2 escort classes could definitely store plenty of ammunition for them. Also 5in cannons are far more unwieldy on land. There's probably a medium range option I'm not smart enough to think of, so keep an eye on China.

All of this is theory, of course. I'd expect to see defenses like that in action from China, Russia, and other nations not plugged into the western MIC. Western MIC is allergic to the word 'cheap' or 'cost effective' so yeah the proliferation of cheap smart munitions is gonna suck for anybody in their militaries.

Complications has issued a correction as of 08:00 on Dec 26, 2023

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:58

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Slavvy posted:

The range on them is really poo poo compared to actual AAA

the combat ceiling of a shahed is like 4000 meters and it flies p drat slow, so range isn't really an issue here. hell, theoretically you could down one with an hmg

# ? Dec 26, 2023 07:59

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

The real problem of the Shahed and similar low cost strategic weapons isn't that it can't be countered, it's that a genuine challenge to the Western MIC grift coasting on energy and invention from 50 years ago, a challenge that they're no longer capable of meeting. Like what do you actually do about it? Equip your tactical formations with organic mid-caliber autocannon AA using optical or IRST fire control systems and proximity fuzed rounds so your mechanized and armored formations are much more difficult to attack with drones, then build your own drones too.

But that's not the problem, the problem is that any novel threat or challenge to the doctrine and production of the West's entrenched MIC players is simply ignored. It's just that the Shahed represents a challenge that's accessible to almost anybody; you don't need to be China to make a few hundred small drones like that and suddenly present a credible threat to airbases, civilian infrastructure, shipping, etc. now. It's like you can go to the store and buy automatic rifles now but the US military is run by and for the benefit of the flintlock lobby.

# ? Dec 26, 2023 08:21

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

BearsBearsBears posted:

The solution is anti-air cannons. Bring back Flak guns. I don't know what size shells would work best but they would be cheaper than the current missile interceptors. Use those fancy computers and radars to determine where to fire the shells and set the appropriate distance fuze and just fire a few dozen rounds at each Shahed.

"the solution is something that requires the production of a lot of shells"

Sorry but that ship has sailed (pun intended!)

# ? Dec 26, 2023 08:40

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

FuzzySlippers posted:

I had been curious why I have seen no one doing it. I wasn't sure if there was some technical reason or just too low tech and boring. If nazis could throw up an entire sky full of flak every night even as they lost the war flak can't be too expensive, can it? It's not like you need to get a direct hit to bring down a repurposed quadcopter

How useful.have the ZSU-23s been for Ukraine or Russia in all this?

# ? Dec 26, 2023 08:47

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

BearsBearsBears posted:

It's a solvable problem for nations that aren't the US, just build factories that can build tonnes of naval shells on the cheap. China will have this problem licked. Cheap and plentiful naval shells plus interdiction of enemy drones (exploding enemy drone launchers before they can launch their drones) can bring the industrial cost of the war to (roughly) matching levels.

There's also a another technology that's been developed to cheaply counter enemy drones. It's a UAV that's tethered to the ground and is designed to physically intercept the enemy drones. They're easier to use on fixed positions and are more effective if layered.

The Brits used these to counter the primitive UAVs that the Nazis were using to attack London and the Americans used them to secure the beacheheads against air attack after the D-Day landings.

lol we already saw the havoc that one chinese balloon could werck.

# ? Dec 26, 2023 08:56

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

great balloon wall of china with machine guns

# ? Dec 26, 2023 08:57

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Delta-Wye posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5_F4_Eod8

this is better. future wunderwaffen opportunity????

lol at the wobble on that

# ? Dec 26, 2023 21:38

a_gelatinous_cube: Feb 13, 2005

I was googling around to see if anyone has actually tested an honest-to-god drone swarm yet, and found this video from a 2016 test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86rwv-5f7IA

where the drone swarm sounds exactly like the screams of all the damned souls burning in hell at the end of The House That Jack Built which is horrifying. I'm guessing to actually get one of those to work is you need them to be running on some sort of autonomy and have the ability to chose targets themselves which seems like a nightmare so it is probably something we are definitely going to do.

# ? Dec 26, 2023 21:54

GlassEye-Boy: Jul 12, 2001

a_gelatinous_cube posted:

I was googling around to see if anyone has actually tested an honest-to-god drone swarm yet, and found this video from a 2016 test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86rwv-5f7IA

where the drone swarm sounds exactly like the screams of all the damned souls burning in hell at the end of The House That Jack Built which is horrifying. I'm guessing to actually get one of those to work is you need them to be running on some sort of autonomy and have the ability to chose targets themselves which seems like a nightmare so it is probably something we are definitely going to do.

looks expensive.

https://youtu.be/scTe1LUjwbo?si=b9iwLnr3JW7nQsPg

# ? Dec 26, 2023 22:46

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolynschwaar/2022/02/27/us-military-to-3d-print-its-way-out-of-supply-chain-woes/?sh=27e832c7275d

quote:

U.S. Military To 3D Print Its Way Out Of Supply Chain Woes

Keeping mission-critical supply chains running is nothing new to military operations. But when contracted manufacturing partners struggle to overcome pandemic-induced backlogs, raw materials are stuck in ports, and chip shortages halt production lines, the U.S. military turns to 3D printing to get essential parts and components.

Recently, the U.S. Navy released a plan to pair suppliers who cannot meet growing demand for submarine parts with 3D printing companies that can print the metal parts around the clock to boost supply.

According to Matt Sermon, executive director of Program Executive Office Strategic Submarines, this plan will help Navy contractors � many of whom are the sole sources of components to the Navy � by removing pressure as they struggle to keep up with the current workload.

Last week, the Department of Defense released its assessment of defense critical supply chains in response to President Biden�s 2021 Executive Order on America�s Supply Chains. The report recommends the military expand its use of 3D printing (also called �additive manufacturing�) as a key focus area and strategic enabler required for mission success.

3D printing spare parts is actually nothing new to the U.S. military. 3D printed parts are currently in critical aircraft engines, on tanks and submarines, and on the soldiers themselves.

In fact, the use of 3D printing in the U.S. military is now so widespread, the Department of Defense established an additive manufacturing strategy last year that outlines the technologies and applications it intends to fund and employ within all the branches. Its detailed 3D printing strategy calls for the military to use 3D printing to rapidly prototype and produce spare parts, and for use in the battlefield to produce "innovative solutions."

�Additive manufacturing offers DoD unprecedented supply chain agility while enabling our developers to sustain technological dominance for our Warfighters,� said Robert Gold, director of engineering enterprise at the Department of Defense.

Additive manufacturing enables the military to produce new products quickly and cost-effectively, on-demand and at the point of need, either at base, at sea, or on the frontlines. It bolsters the lifespan of legacy systems and vehicles that might otherwise be retired.

A few years back, Wichita State University in Kansas working with the U.S. Army took apart a Black Hawk helicopter piece by piece to 3D scan each component. The detailed 3D digital models now can be instantly and securely sent to any military 3D printer anywhere for 3D printing spare parts at a moment's notice.

The U.S. Military already, widely uses � or is experimenting with � 3D printing for everything from spare parts for fighter jets to concrete barracks for remote outposts.

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is an avid user of 3D printing technology. Its VHA 3D Printing Network is responsible for coordinating the 3D printing initiatives in more than 33 VA facilities nationwide, producing pandemic PPE, custom prothesis, dental tools, and medical models.

The U.S. Marine Corps� Advanced Manufacturing Operations Cell (AMOC) fulfills orders for additively manufactured parts from throughout the Marine Corps and develops 3D printable solutions that can then be sent to 3D printers in the field. Marines also learned how to 3D print a concrete bunker in just 36 hours that�s big enough to hide a truck-mounted multiple rocket launcher system.

The U.S. Army�s Rock Island Arsenal Additive Manufacturing Center of Excellence is just one of the locations housing the military's collection of 3D printing technology. A new additive manufacturing lab for metal parts is set to open at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City later this year. Rock Island recently announced it�s getting a second metal 3D printer from Australian manufacturer WarpSPEE3D, which uses a high-speed metal fabrication technology that can print tools and spare parts in a matter of hours. The 3D printing unit can be deployed to frontlines in a small container.

The ability to bring manufacturing to the frontlines significantly reduces the costs and time of shipping replacement parts from machine tooling hubs overseas. The DoD contracted with metal 3D printer manufacturer ExOne to develop a 40-ft long portable additive manufacturing unit to be deployed on land and sea.

The Army Research Laboratory is currently working on a way forward-deployed units can reduce supply chain dependence by using available plastic packaging materials as a feedstock for 3D printers that can then churn out a wide range of parts, tools, and supplies.

There�s no shortage of parts and products the U.S. Military needs to ensure are available when and where they�re needed. From 3D-printed spare Humvee door handles to 3D-printed submarine parts, the uses of 3D printing within the military are vast and growing, and perhaps a universal roadmap for building supply chain resilience.

# ? Dec 26, 2023 23:13

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

US Armory Department of Strategic Maker Spaces

# ? Dec 26, 2023 23:15

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# ? May 25, 2024 02:44

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

dads friend steve posted:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolynschwaar/2022/02/27/us-military-to-3d-print-its-way-out-of-supply-chain-woes/?sh=27e832c7275d

This has to be a full buzzword bingo

# ? Dec 26, 2023 23:28

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

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