|
Yeah roll stat or under on a d20 (maybe +/- a little for difficulty) is right there. My impression is that he did that kind of thing all the time in his own games but for some reason didn't choose to put it in the rules.
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 05:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:17 |
|
|
sebmojo posted:Yeah roll stat or under on a d20 (maybe +/- a little for difficulty) is right there. Yeah you would think that, roll under is pretty obvious but look at this bit from the article HOW TO USE NON-PRIME-REQUISITE CHARACTER ATTRIBUTES in Dragon Magazine #1 from 1976.  There's a lot to unpack here, beyond just the crazy mathematical gymnastics involved in this system, not only does the article indicate that there was no standard way to adjudicate non-combat actions, but the article also refers to non-prime-requisite attributes, but doesn't indicate how this differs from prime requisite attributes in any way. My favorite part is at the end where it says "EVERYTHING ELSE -- You get the idea."
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 06:44
|
|
|
I feel like my eyes have gone insane
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 07:01
|
|
|
the forebears have achieved levels of posting that we can only look at in faint awe
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 07:07
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:Yeah you would think that, roll under is pretty obvious but look at this bit from the article HOW TO USE NON-PRIME-REQUISITE CHARACTER ATTRIBUTES in Dragon Magazine #1 from 1976. lol these motherfuckers just loved rolling dice
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 07:08
|
|
|
shiny rockpilled clickety-clackcels
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 07:09
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:Yeah you would think that, roll under is pretty obvious but look at this bit from the article HOW TO USE NON-PRIME-REQUISITE CHARACTER ATTRIBUTES in Dragon Magazine #1 from 1976. This is one of those things where games and movies talk about the advanced precursor technology that was lost, and it turns out it was poo poo like this. We don't need to go back to the origin people, we can make new and better things with what we've learned. It turns out all that lost lore was lost because it was garbage .
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 07:13
|
|
|
There was a podcast that discussed early ttrpg zines, and they discussed early lgbt presence being there since the late 70s. A debated topic was not if you rolled to see of your character was gay, but HOW you rolled to find out if your character was gay. Rolling was just a given.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 07:15
|
|
|
thank you for bringing up the source of the first few issues of dragon. these ridiculous things are worth hours of entertainment
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 09:05
|
|
|
aw frig aw dang it posted:lol these motherfuckers just loved rolling dice I mean they literally admit that with a lot of things. It was novel and fun at the time. Mister Olympus posted:thank you for bringing up the source of the first few issues of dragon. these ridiculous things are worth hours of entertainment That's just someone's essay on Dune.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 09:16
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:That's just someone's essay on Dune. Funny, I was thinking Heinlein.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 09:19
|
|
|
theironjef posted:the 25% chance to crit off a D4 was higher than the 17% chance to succeed off a D12. Sadly Ryuutama shares that issue to some extent, crits happen when both the dice you rolled show a 6 or the highest number. But dice scale from d4 to d12 (and in some extreme niche situations d20). So as your attributes improve from 4 to 12, the chance goes (assuming both attributes are the same for simplicity) 1/16, 1/36, 1/16, 1/25, 1/36. It's completely silly. And crits are quite a big deal, too, as a lot of abilities come with very fancy critical effects. I've considered house rules for it, but haven't come up with anything elegant yet. You could just scale it up by one extra die face per size, but that does bring you up to greater than 1/5 crit rate at the far end of the scale. Maybe that's fine, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 16:03
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:There's a lot to unpack here, beyond just the crazy mathematical gymnastics involved in this system, not only does the article indicate that there was no standard way to adjudicate non-combat actions, but the article also refers to non-prime-requisite attributes, but doesn't indicate how this differs from prime requisite attributes in any way. It’s even more confusing, because the example uses a strength check for a Fighting Man, and strength should be their prime requisite stat. That is, unless the author taken one of the (logical) interpretations of the prime requisite rules that makes it into a 7th stat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 16:09
|
|
|
Griddle of Love posted:Sadly Ryuutama shares that issue to some extent, crits happen when both the dice you rolled show a 6 or the highest number. But dice scale from d4 to d12 (and in some extreme niche situations d20). So as your attributes improve from 4 to 12, the chance goes (assuming both attributes are the same for simplicity) 1/16, 1/36, 1/16, 1/25, 1/36. 6+ and doubles? e.g. 6,6, 7,7, etc. I don't know the math on that tho
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 16:16
|
|
|
Leraika posted:6+ and doubles? e.g. 6,6, 7,7, etc. It would help, but it doesn't address the drop in going from d4 (25%) to d6 (17%), if I understood you right. To further complicate matters, remember that you can also go from something like d4+d4 to d4+d6, and that actually decreases your odds of doubles. Griddle of Love fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Dec 28, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 16:34
|
|
|
Griddle of Love posted:It would help, but it doesn't address the drop in going from d4 (25%) to d6 (17%), if I understood you right. Yeah I forgot about that part.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 16:35
|
|
|
Griddle of Love posted:Sadly Ryuutama shares that issue to some extent, crits happen when both the dice you rolled show a 6 or the highest number. But dice scale from d4 to d12 (and in some extreme niche situations d20). So as your attributes improve from 4 to 12, the chance goes (assuming both attributes are the same for simplicity) 1/16, 1/36, 1/16, 1/25, 1/36. There is a popular house rule in DCC where you get a crit on a 20 AND the highest number on the die. So if your attack goes to a d24 you crit on a roll of 24 or 20, giving you a 1/12 chance to crit. I dunno how Ryuutama works or what that would change. Nemo2342 posted:It’s even more confusing, because the example uses a strength check for a Fighting Man, and strength should be their prime requisite stat. That's an interesting interpretation that I never thought of but it makes sense. I was thinking they were considering the combat stats, AC, HP Attack as the prime requisites since those are the stats that had mechanics at the time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 16:39
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:There's a lot to unpack here, beyond just the crazy mathematical gymnastics involved in this system, not only does the article indicate that there was no standard way to adjudicate non-combat actions, but the article also refers to non-prime-requisite attributes, but doesn't indicate how this differs from prime requisite attributes in any way. Rolling to determine what kind of dice to roll is one of my favourite “I don’t understand probabilities but I’m designing them anyway” things.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 16:51
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:There is a popular house rule in DCC where you get a crit on a 20 AND the highest number on the die. So if your attack goes to a d24 you crit on a roll of 24 or 20, giving you a 1/12 chance to crit. It already kind of does work like that. You roll two dice, determined by your attributes, scaling from d4 to d6, and if both of them show either their highest face or a six, it's a crit. This 'or a six' clause is like the 'or a twenty' that you mention, and what it does is bump up the crit rates for d8 through d12, but they still drop sharply at every attribute increase other than when going from d6 to d8 specifically.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 16:52
|
|
|
Griddle of Love posted:It already kind of does work like that. You roll two dice, determined by your attributes, scaling from d4 to d6, and if both of them show either their highest face or a six, it's a crit. This 'or a six' clause is like the 'or a twenty' that you mention, and what it does is bump up the crit rates for d8 through d12, but they still drop sharply at every attribute increase other than when going from d6 to d8 specifically. What about if any max value counts - so 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12?
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 17:49
|
|
|
How tae gently caress do you roll a d24? Asking the computer to do it doesn’t count
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 17:59
|
|
|
Angrymog posted:What about if any max value counts - so 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12? Yeah, that seems like the most elegant way to put into practice the option I describe above as Griddle of Love posted:You could just scale it up by one extra die face per size, but that does bring you up to greater than 1/5 crit rate at the far end of the scale. Maybe that's fine, though. The way you place the extra crits is much better than what my brain defaulted to which was: highest n faces on the dice, with n=1 for d4 scaling up to n=5 on d12.  That's a horrid thing to ask players to remember and resolve for every site roll, and I'm grateful you suggested a better way!
Griddle of Love fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Dec 28, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:06
|
|
|
Nessus posted:How tae gently caress do you roll a d24? Asking the computer to do it doesn’t count You can make a bullet-shaped die for just about any arbitrary number of sides until they get too small to settle, I think.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:08
|
|
|
Nessus posted:How tae gently caress do you roll a d24? Asking the computer to do it doesn’t count The DCC dice sets come with an actual d24, as well as the other unusual dice https://goodman-games.com/store/product-category/dice/ Edit: “Set includes a D3, D5, D7, D14, D16, D24 and D30.” Edit2: I’ve also seen an actual d100 that works, but it does roll for a bit longer than usual. lexxyth fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Dec 28, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:09
|
|
|
Nessus posted:How tae gently caress do you roll a d24? Asking the computer to do it doesn’t count First build a deltoidal icositetrahedron.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:25
|
|
|
Nessus posted:How tae gently caress do you roll a d24? Asking the computer to do it doesn’t count
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:27
|
|
|
Nessus posted:How tae gently caress do you roll a d24? Asking the computer to do it doesn’t count I typically let it drop from my hand from a small height, such that it rolls off my palm and continues rolling a short distance on the table. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:31
|
|
|
Nessus posted:How tae gently caress do you roll a d24? Asking the computer to do it doesn’t count Welcome to Dungeon Crawl Classics: https://www.gamesandstuffonline.com/products/dcc-dice-chucks-lucky-dice
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:34
|
|
|
LatwPIAT posted:Rolling to determine what kind of dice to roll is one of my favourite “I don’t understand probabilities but I’m designing them anyway” things.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:38
|
|
|
LatwPIAT posted:I typically let it drop from my hand from a small height, such that it rolls off my palm and continues rolling a short distance on the table.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:39
|
|
|
Got my copy of Cast Away today. Uses Mork Borg but in a way that isn’t the sort of boring way you often see. Love me some Mork Borg but it needs so much to feel like a deadly system. https://www.monomythgames.net/cast-away
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 18:44
|
|
|
FMguru posted:World Of Synnibar does this in the example of play section. A player tries to do something that isn't covered by the rules, so the GM makes a judgement call that he will roll a D% to determine the difficulty, and the play will need to roll a D% under that difficulty to succeed. Which, mathematically, is the same as flipping a coin. It's actually a 49.5% chance (  ) which makes it even more maddening: it's such an incredibly specific number to accomplish something that wouldn't be any less reasonable if it just was 50/50--and either way it's not a satisfying solution to the problem of not having enough guidance for setting difficulty. Splicer posted:My brain insisted on parsing this as genuine advice at first and started trying to work out what benefit a straight down drop would add over a standard rolly roll. Genuinely? I actually quite like the short drop with a small roll over a more flat toss because the die, while it does usually roll in both cases, doesn't roll as far off in one direction. This makes it a tad bit faster to read the results, and the chances the die rolls off the table or crashes into the pieces are reduced. Once the boards get big, the pieces many, and the tables small, you adapt to circumstances. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 19:42
|
|
|
Leraika posted:6+ and doubles? e.g. 6,6, 7,7, etc. I've been reading through Fabula Ultima and this is what that game does, I wonder how that maths out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 20:46
|
|
|
If I recall it’s not even “something not covered by the rules”. It’s the GM deciding if the PC’s spaceship will still be there when they get back from the planetary expedition. Remembering that this is a game in which Calling Fate is a thing, I think it was presented as the fairest way to do it?? Not sure about that though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 20:49
|
|
|
FMguru posted:World Of Synnibar does this in the example of play section. A player tries to do something that isn't covered by the rules, so the GM makes a judgement call that he will roll a D% to determine the difficulty, and the play will need to roll a D% under that difficulty to succeed. Which, mathematically, is the same as flipping a coin. IIRC, FATAL features this as a regular and fundamental mechanic. Not the worst of its sins, but evidence that its creators were stupid in a wide variety of ways.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 21:46
|
|
|
Kestral posted:On the one hand, that commenter has a good definition for Timmy cards. On the other hand, “only wizards get mic-drop moments” is a statement that says “I don’t actually know 5e very well at all.” They're right if you just understand "wizards" as shorthand for "full spellcasters". How does a rogue signify that they're breaking the emergency glass because the situation calls for them to go all-out? Well, by trying to line up and deliver a sneak attack, same as they do every other round. A fighter's at least got their per-short-rest action surge, but they conspicuously don't get a special move or combat stance so outrageously powerful that it'd be ridiculous to let them do it more than once per day.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 21:50
|
|
|
weast posted:I've been reading through Fabula Ultima and this is what that game does, I wonder how that maths out.  Fabula Ultima does not have d4, so the (6+) line is applicable to vanilla FU, where the 4+ line would be one adapted to the stat spread of Ryuutama critting on all doubles of 4+. "House Rule" is a crit when both dice show an even number of 4+, even if it's not the same number on both dice. Ryuutama's crit chance is all over the place. Fabula Ultima is quite stingy, boasting the lowest numbers but getting consistently higher as both stats are raised. Uneven stats on the other hand decrease the chance to crit even as one stat goes up. The house rule ends up being a lot more generous with crits across the board (except for the case of rolling 2d4). EDIT: Actually, looking over the numbers again, Fabula Ultima vanilla peaks at 2d10 with a 5% crit chance, and goes down from there on out (not far, as it stops at d12s). Adapted to Ryuutama dice ranges, it peaks at 2d6 for a 8.33% crit rate. EDIT2: Turns out I was misunderstanding Ryuutama's crit rules: When you roll something like 2d8, only results of 6, 6 and 8, 8 are crits, 6, 8 and 8, 6 are not, cutting higher end crit rates in half. Table updated correspondingly. Griddle of Love fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Dec 29, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 22:08
|
|
|
ninjoatse.cx posted:There was a podcast that discussed early ttrpg zines, and they discussed early lgbt presence being there since the late 70s. A debated topic was not if you rolled to see of your character was gay, but HOW you rolled to find out if your character was gay. Rolling was just a given. If you remember, can you post what that was? I am interested.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2023 00:09
|
|
|
Oh so that's why psionics were OP pre-3.5e.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2023 00:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:17 |
|
|
Not sure this is the right thread for this, but: I remember "Death to ability scores!" being a common catchphrase here at one point. What I find odd about it is that I can't actually think of any tabletop RPGs (aside from maybe some ultra-rules-lite ones) that don't have ability scores. I can think of a few systems that superficially don't have them, but actually have them in disguise. What are these ability-score-less systems that people were calling for D&D to imitate?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2023 02:23
|
|