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i don't use that type of language. in my realm it's called a bias. and they're 100% real.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:30
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Deion Sanders is too 'hip hop' for the TFF crowd.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:31
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Re: Hester: https://twitter.com/DanMillerFox2/status/1740507424271065568?t=YAo8ZiOnk5WuKP4bTnfU8Q&s=19
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Dec 29, 2023 01:34
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Mr. Nice! posted:I don't know how they're counted in the stats, but pfr does have non-offensive TDs: From a minute ago, but Hester also did this against the Giants, took a long FG try 109 yards to the house at the half. He scared the absolute poo poo out of every opposing HC/ST coordinator
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Dec 29, 2023 01:35
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Kalli posted:Deion Sanders is too 'hip hop' for the TFF crowd.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:37
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I do not care about the hall of fame
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Dec 29, 2023 01:37
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Kalli posted:Deion Sanders is too 'hip hop' for the TFF crowd. I was going to post Deion's rap album as a joke, but honestly? The man looked good.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:38
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Kalli posted:Deion Sanders is too legit 2 quit
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Dec 29, 2023 01:42
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The giants put young, healthy odell at punt returner for like 4 minutes and he immediately returned a punt for a td against Cleveland which was called back on a phantom penalty but he looked like the best returner I'd ever seen in that short time Then they just decided it wasn't worth it for the injury risk and he stopped returning kicks before getting hurt playing receiver anyway
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Dec 29, 2023 01:45
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The thing that the Hester stats I posted don't really show is that teams generally would not kick to him. Teams would often risk a punt going way short out of bounds rather than give Hester a chance to run it back. I wish I had numbers for all of the times he was lined up deep and the punt was kicked out of bounds. The incredible number of times that coaches deliberately sacrificed 20+ yards of field position just to avoid Devin Hester is a testament to just how much he affected the game. Imagine if the bears ever had competent offense to take advantage of his unique skillset.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:46
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Mr. Nice! posted:The thing that the Hester stats I posted don't really show is that teams generally would not kick to him. Teams would often risk a punt going way short out of bounds rather than give Hester a chance to run it back. I wish I had numbers for all of the times he was lined up deep and the punt was kicked out of bounds. The incredible number of times that coaches deliberately sacrificed 20+ yards of field position just to avoid Devin Hester is a testament to just how much he affected the game. He went through college and the NFL being almost unplayable on offense. I'm not disagreeing about his efficacy on the field. I just think to throw the guy into the hall because people kicked away from him discounts other players who earned their spots and is disingenuous on how much he changed the game. People were kicking away from Dante Hall just as much. loving Dave Meggett used to get the same treatment. I have a hard time believing that guys who can put up 2k yard seasons wouldn't be just as effective as Hester if they just returned kicks.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:54
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Maybe the long term injury risk to your best wrs isn't worth it in the regular season but why aren't teams putting them in for the playoffs? You're gonna tell me in a do or die situation the coaches wouldn't force them to take those punts if they could do it as well as Hester?
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Dec 29, 2023 01:56
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Re: Hester: I have no feeling or thoughts about Hester in the hall, but using a college play to endorse his NFL HoF case is maybe not well considered. It's not the Hall of Amazing Things People Did Outside the NFL.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:57
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People joke about Lamar Jackson being an RB, but I think his true alternate position would have a truly devastating kick/punt returner in the Hester mold
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Dec 29, 2023 01:57
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Are the Browns the most injured 10-win team in history? Because this poo poo is ridiculous with Cooper now out
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Dec 29, 2023 01:58
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Kalli posted:Deion Sanders is too 'hip hop' for the TFF crowd. Deion was my absolute favorite player growing up. I still have newspaper clippings of him winning DPoY awards or something.
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Dec 29, 2023 02:05
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sirtommygunn posted:Maybe the long term injury risk to your best wrs isn't worth it in the regular season but why aren't teams putting them in for the playoffs? You're gonna tell me in a do or die situation the coaches wouldn't force them to take those punts if they could do it as well as Hester? They do sub in returners for playoffs. Steve Smith Jr. returned a few early on in his career. Giants also used ODB a few times once.
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Dec 29, 2023 02:07
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Doltos posted:"loving Dave Meggett" Hoo boy, he got a Walter Payton Man of the Year award and a 30 year prison sentence for sexual assault. He also has nine children, so "loving Dave Meggett" is accurate.
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Dec 29, 2023 02:16
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Doltos posted:They do sub in returners for playoffs. Steve Smith Jr. returned a few early on in his career. Giants also used ODB a few times once. They had him return one in a playoff game against the Seahawks since he was getting like triple covered for most of the game on offense (no joke), and he loving housed it. Shame about the rest of the game though. vvv Brother, you're preaching to the choir. ozymandius1024 fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 02:22
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ozymandius1024 posted:They had him return one in a playoff game against the Seahawks since he was getting like triple covered for most of the game on offense (no joke), and he loving housed it. Shame about the rest of the game though. A guy who should actually be going to the HOF this year.
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Dec 29, 2023 02:24
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sirtommygunn posted:Maybe the long term injury risk to your best wrs isn't worth it in the regular season but why aren't teams putting them in for the playoffs? You're gonna tell me in a do or die situation the coaches wouldn't force them to take those punts if they could do it as well as Hester? Did the Niners put in CMC and Deebo for kick returns over the last game or two? It happens, it's just not this secret cheat code worthy of media attention and you probably want your WR/RB to have some history of catching kicks or a fair amount of practice dedicated to it.
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Dec 29, 2023 03:22
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Kalli posted:Deion Sanders is too 'hip hop' for the TFF crowd. coach rhyme
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Dec 29, 2023 03:25
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The Dave posted:Did the Niners put in CMC and Deebo for kick returns over the last game or two? Deebo was in for a few, but not CMC. He did pretty well.
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Dec 29, 2023 03:26
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Omne posted:Are the Browns the most injured 10-win team in history? Because this poo poo is ridiculous with
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Dec 29, 2023 04:22
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I'd rather read another 5000 word kawalimas essay than any more doltos hot takes
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Dec 29, 2023 04:25
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E oops I thought this was the gdt
HootTheOwl fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 04:25
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BlindSite posted:A guy who should actually be going to the HOF this year. 
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Dec 29, 2023 05:31
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Hold up, Dion Sanders isn't in the hall?
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Dec 29, 2023 05:54
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HootTheOwl posted:Hold up, Dion Sanders isn't in the hall? Deion was a first ballot inductee in 2011
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Dec 29, 2023 05:58
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Mirotic posted:
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Dec 29, 2023 06:00
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fartknocker posted:Deion was a first ballot inductee in 2011 Why are people talking like he isn't?
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Dec 29, 2023 06:01
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Doltos posted:The Basketball Hall of Fame is what people want the NFL HOF to turn into because then all their favorite players who were pretty good get the award and then they feel good. That's not the NFL HOF. You have to be literally the best. A returner who didn't even play offense is not that. He could have been fungible with any other skill position and the fact that no one wastes their best players on returning is a testament to how meh Hester career was.
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Dec 29, 2023 06:04
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Again, dodging 10.5 tacklers who are all barreling towards you and only you is a very different skillset than being 1 of 3-to-5 potential targets running very specific routes on specific playcalls that are innately designed to diffuse coverage throughout the entire offense as to sift and winnow out the most-open-target. Not only was Hester able to evade all these tacklers, he was able to dodge them in such timing that he was able to more-or-less influence the flow of play on the field and generate further and repeated openings that he could continue to return through. Remember peak Le'Veon Bell who could juke and patiently wait until gaps opened up to shoot through them? If you're saying Hester is a fungible property, you're essentially saying Trent Richardson could've done the same thing Bell did. That combined with his speed and agility is why teams hated kicking to him and would take the 40-yard penalty or the pooch/out-of-bounds punts instead.
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Dec 29, 2023 06:22
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A friend of mine in Cleveland who is a diehard Browns fan just made this and sent it to me. I saw it, and now everyone else has to see it, too. Behold: FREDDIE 
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Dec 29, 2023 06:26
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HootTheOwl posted:Hester redefined the game and if returners are so interchangeable then more teams would interchange them. We run this experiment every time a game is close in the fourth and the other team punts and it's still the normal return guy back there. They do get changed up. Head coaches also don't like to change things too much that are working. Belichick specifically didn't want anything but a sure handed guy returning things because he hated fumbles on special teams. SKULL.GIF posted:Again, dodging 10.5 tacklers who are all barreling towards you and only you is a very different skillset than being 1 of 3-to-5 potential targets running very specific routes on specific playcalls that are innately designed to diffuse coverage throughout the entire offense as to sift and winnow out the most-open-target. It's not just because you bolded it and italicized it. It's literally the same concept, in fact, as running in the open field. You find lanes and you shoot for them. It's why so many WRs are great kick returners.
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Dec 29, 2023 06:42
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Doltos posted:They do get changed up. Head coaches also don't like to change things too much that are working. Belichick specifically didn't want anything but a sure handed guy returning things because he hated fumbles on special teams. How come DJ Moore wasn't returning punts against Cleveland with the season on the line? How come tonight, the Jets who couldn't get anything going offensively, didn't have a WR try it tonight? Why is it, with roster spots so tight that teams still have kick returners at all?
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Dec 29, 2023 06:52
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You simply dont tell the story of the 2000s NFL without mentioning Hester. Its that simple and hes a HoFer
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Dec 29, 2023 06:53
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We could put a WR, any of them, back there and we'd be instantly better, but we don't because we don't want to change what's working. But also it isn't working which is why we're losing.
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Dec 29, 2023 06:54
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HootTheOwl posted:How come DJ Moore wasn't returning punts against Cleveland with the season on the line? Moore returned a few kicks earlier in his career but I doubt the Bears want to risk injuring their main trade piece from the last offseason. I don't exactly think their season was on the line since they need a lot of certain things to happen to make the playoffs even if they won that game. You think the Jets would have suddenly beat Cleveland if they put Garrett Wilson in? Also didn't Xavier Gipson have a bunch of decent to good returns? What does your third question even mean? Teams carry a bunch of WRs and DBs naturally for formations and just stick one of them or a RB in at returner. I don't think the position is as impactful as you think it is. Hester had 19 return TDs over 156 games. He averaged 11 yards a punt and 24 yards a return per game. Yeah people kicked away from him, but none of these things really completely change a game. Nor does it really warrant risking good players in the position which is why, again, for the history of the NFL, good returners become regular fixtures on offense or defense. There's a reason why Cordarelle is better, and it's not just because he's a better returner too.
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Dec 29, 2023 07:06
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Doltos posted:It's literally the same concept, in fact, as running in the open field. Running in the open field, presumably after a completion, presumably after roughly half the defense (at minimum) has been eliminated via blocking, presumably after the remaining half has been eliminated from consideration because of positioning because they were assigned to other targets during the development of the play. If you started every single offensive snap with a 25 yards backwards pass to Barry Sanders you'd have Devin Hester.
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Dec 29, 2023 07:06
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