Trad Games Chat: squabbled over drafts, forked, and disbanded

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Runa: Feb 13, 2011

theironjef posted:

I dunno I'll take an army of Ferrini going on about whatever grad student word examination of stat design over any talk at all about whether or not Chairman Mao was well respected in the 60s. One of those is at least tangentially about Trad Games. Goons gonna poli sci though.

Hey now, let's be fair, Ferrinus is also the one who brought up Mao unprompted, so if you're getting an army of him that's what they're bringing.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:03

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:21

Lurks With Wolves: Jan 14, 2013; At least I don't dance with them, right?

Whirling posted:

I like Mutants and Masterminds' classless point build system since I think it does a better job of letting you create something like a very smart Conan the Barbarian type guy since it isn't a waste to give him some extra intelligence and skills.

This also kinda brings me to the other message behind Death To Ability Scores: D&D's attribute spread is just kind of bad. The strength of having a small spread of stats like most attribute systems is that it's easy to tell at a glance that a character is good at X and Y but weak in Z. Conan is omnicompetent at the kinds of things D&D stats put emphasis on, which is why it's really hard to make him in D&D-derived games. (Other than games like M&M that have moved far enough away from caring about equal stat spreads to have it be something that really matters, of course.) If you made a Conan game with ability scores like Might/Cunning/Arcana/Civilization (or something similar that wasn't written in five minutes in a random forum post), you could make Conan without having to go "well, to be lore accurate he needs to have 14 at minimum in everything".

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:03

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

The thing about Death to Ability Scores is a simple fundamental question of whether or not you're actually thinking about what your game is about and how to portray that mechanically. Like I said, plenty of games use Attributes as functionally the entirety of a broad competency set and get by just fine, because they occupy the same function as Skills as well and the games they're in don't benefit from the added granularity.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:06

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Runa posted:

Hey now, let's be fair, Ferrinus is also the one who brought up Mao unprompted, so if you're getting an army of him that's what they're bringing.

Well you've got a point there. I will change the subject as penance. I'm writing a book of RPG history trivia. Anyone got any really good stotoes or moments or stuff I should know about and go research?

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:06

Antivehicular: Dec 30, 2011; I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

Yeah, I think stat systems that measure things related to the narrative (and may encompass natural gifts, training, supernatural talent, whatever) are generally more useful and interesting than things like Strength and Intelligence. The example that immediately comes to mind is Mask's stats all being, essentially, the way you perceive yourself and are perceived by others (Freak, Savior, etc.), because the game's story is about teen supers refining their identities and place in the world, so that identity is what matters, not how much they can deadlift.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:11

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Lancer's inspirations are iirc Armored Core (before it was cool again), Titanfall, definitely not a small amount of Gundam, and oddly enough pretty clearly Star Trek, with super-future 3D printers basically functioning as replicators and an interstellar superpower that's pretty much the Federation, complete with a near-religious devotion to egalitarianism and alleviation of poverty and slavery. (Though as a relatively recent change from a former regime that was more Starship Troopers slash borderline Warhammer 40k) Definitely some Marathon too particularly with the treatment of AIs. And some HORUS mechs definitely get rather EVA.

There are some rules and Talents representing psychic abilities and calling up your foes to monologue and/or poo poo-talk to them. Though overall it's more its own thing, one thing that stands out to me is the emphasis on electronic warfare, drones and hacking that's proved eerily prescient as to where modern warfare ended up going.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:11

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

theironjef posted:

Well you've got a point there. I will change the subject as penance. I'm writing a book of RPG history trivia. Anyone got any really good stotoes or moments or stuff I should know about and go research?

Make sure to bring up the "Graduate your Game" promotion White Wolf tried to run.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:14

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Nessus posted:

Make sure to bring up the "Graduate your Game" promotion White Wolf tried to run.

Oh yeah ads are good! So far I've only got some stuff about those weird flash cartoons from the 4e era.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:15

PuttyKnife: Jan 2, 2006; Despair brings the puttyknife down.

theironjef posted:

Well you've got a point there. I will change the subject as penance. I'm writing a book of RPG history trivia. Anyone got any really good stotoes or moments or stuff I should know about and go research?

Dave Wesley almost never shows up. So, what was the name of the game Dave Wesley read and used in his extremely important Braunstein? Strategos.

Braunstein was Dave Wesley�s free form game of players playing officers. What was the Western form? Brownstein.

When did the first white box make it to Urbana Champaign, resulting in pedit5? 1974 gencon.

Where did character sheets come from? They were based on the first edition of Don�t Give Up the ship from Guidon Games.

In Lee Gold�s zine, Alarums and Excursions, how many pages did Gary Gygax say Dave Arneson sent him? 22.

Dave Arneson wrote a manuscript that many believe was his version of what would be called dungeons and dragons. It was later found in MAR Barkers� garage. Beyond this point be dragons.

Why was the Dieties and Demigods from 1e dnd reprinted with fewer pages and was that reason actually the case? It had Cthulhu and Elric lore in it. TSR actually had permission but they didn�t want to deal with a lawsuit so they removed it in the next printing.

When were players no longer able to play Hobbits in 0dnd? 6th printing when they got a cease and desist from the Tolkien estate?

Who is the worst man in ttrpgs and why? Kevin Siembieda because he hooked TSR on litigation and passed it off to wotc resulting in who even knows how much damage to the industry.

Any good?

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:22

Mister Olympus: Oct 31, 2011; Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Lancer's inspirations are iirc Armored Core (before it was cool again), Titanfall, definitely not a small amount of Gundam, and oddly enough pretty clearly Star Trek, with super-future 3D printers basically functioning as replicators and an interstellar superpower that's pretty much the Federation, complete with a near-religious devotion to egalitarianism and alleviation of poverty and slavery. (Though as a relatively recent change from a former regime that was more Starship Troopers slash borderline Warhammer 40k) Definitely some Marathon too particularly with the treatment of AIs. And some HORUS mechs definitely get rather EVA.

There are some rules and Talents representing psychic abilities and calling up your foes to monologue and/or poo poo-talk to them. Though overall it's more its own thing, one thing that stands out to me is the emphasis on electronic warfare, drones and hacking that's proved eerily prescient as to where modern warfare ended up going.

tom lancerman is on record as only having played armored core and seen evangelion before doing lancer, in terms of proper "robot anime" genre. if there were gundam influence it'd be much more visible. 40k is clearly there tho

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:24

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

theironjef posted:

Well you've got a point there. I will change the subject as penance. I'm writing a book of RPG history trivia. Anyone got any really good stotoes or moments or stuff I should know about and go research?

There should definitely be something in there about the White Wolf + Aaron Spelling vehicle Kindred the Embraced.

What city was so depressing to drive through on the way to GenCon that MRH invented Vampire the Masquerade?

What did you have to do first with your dice in the original D&D box sets?

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:44

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

Kestral posted:

drinking the Good Potions

For the sake of my future sanity, please reveal what are "the Good Potions"?

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:45

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

That Old Tree posted:

There should definitely be something in there about the White Wolf + Aaron Spelling vehicle Kindred the Embraced.

What city was so depressing to drive through on the way to GenCon that MRH invented Vampire the Masquerade?

What did you have to do first with your dice in the original D&D box sets?

1. Gary, Indiana.
2. Pencil in the numbers

# ? Dec 30, 2023 00:47

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Mister Olympus posted:

tom lancerman is on record as only having played armored core and seen evangelion before doing lancer, in terms of proper "robot anime" genre. if there were gundam influence it'd be much more visible. 40k is clearly there tho

Take one look at the Drake. It might just be visually, but still.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 01:19

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

It's not like you have to have watched Gundam to see a Zaku and think, yeah that's a neat design.

Just ask that one mayor of a random town in Turkey.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 01:27

Silver2195: Apr 4, 2012

Lurks With Wolves posted:

This also kinda brings me to the other message behind Death To Ability Scores: D&D's attribute spread is just kind of bad. The strength of having a small spread of stats like most attribute systems is that it's easy to tell at a glance that a character is good at X and Y but weak in Z. Conan is omnicompetent at the kinds of things D&D stats put emphasis on, which is why it's really hard to make him in D&D-derived games. (Other than games like M&M that have moved far enough away from caring about equal stat spreads to have it be something that really matters, of course.) If you made a Conan game with ability scores like Might/Cunning/Arcana/Civilization (or something similar that wasn't written in five minutes in a random forum post), you could make Conan without having to go "well, to be lore accurate he needs to have 14 at minimum in everything".

There are a few issues with D&D's specific stat spread, I think.

Are Strength and Constitution interesting enough to justify them being separate stats (especially since Constitution is so passive)? Maybe there's a case to be made that the answer is "yes" in the context of a pseudo-medieval fantasy game, but sometimes the D&D stats are used in games with sci-fi settings (e.g., Stars Without Number) where the answer is clearly "no."
In 5e specifically, Strength is useless even for most martials, since it's so easy to use Dex instead.
Spellcasting being purely tied to mental stats, with no distinct Magic stat, contributes to (but isn't the primary cause of) balance issues in some editions; maybe Wizards should need Intelligence to learn spells but Magic to actually cast them, or something like that.
Intelligence is maybe too broad in theory, although this isn't much of a problem in practice to due to things that would be covered by Intelligence in, say, GURPS being covered by Wisdom or Charisma instead.
Wisdom works decently in purely "gamist" terms, but it's very strange conceptually, as I said earlier.
Spontaneous casting being Charisma-based makes sense for Bards and Favored Souls, but it's a bit odd for Sorcerers conceptually.
The trade-off between Charisma and other stats creates obstacles to participation in social situations that pose issues for some campaigns.

An idea off the top of my head (I'm sure an existing game has something like this, and I'm sure there's a big problem with it I'm not noticing): 9 stats (no skills): Muscle, Agility, Sciences, Humanities, Magic, Willpower, Senses, Eloquence, Cunning. Most characters will max two stats, invest somewhat in three or four, be mediocre at one or two, and be bad at one or two. Muscle covers endurance as well as strength, but doesn't affect hit points, which are determined directly by class. Eloquence is the most "social" stat, but Cunning, Willpower, and even Humanities can have social applications. Fighters use Muscle and Agility. Rogues use Agility and Cunning. Wizards (whose magic is based on theoretically objective principles) use Sciences and Magic. Clerics (who worship anthropomorphic deities) use Humanities and Magic. Bards use Eloquence and Magic. Sorcerers use Willpower and Magic. Rangers use Agility and Senses. Paladins use Muscle and Willpower.

Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Dec 30, 2023

# ? Dec 30, 2023 01:58

Mister Olympus: Oct 31, 2011; Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

yeah i'm talking 100% about the setting, lore, general attitude of the thing towards the idea of giant robot fights, rather than visually

# ? Dec 30, 2023 02:15

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Silver2195 posted:

There are a few issues with D&D's specific stat spread, I think.

Are Strength and Constitution interesting enough to justify them being separate stats (especially since Constitution is so passive)? Maybe there's a case to be made that the answer is "yes" in the context of a pseudo-medieval fantasy game, but sometimes the D&D stats are used in games with sci-fi settings (e.g., Stars Without Number) where the answer is clearly "no."

In 5e specifically, Strength is useless even for most martials, since it's so easy to use Dex instead.

Spellcasting being purely tied to mental stats, with no distinct Magic stat, contributes to (but isn't the primary cause of) balance issues in some editions; maybe Wizards should need Intelligence to learn spells but Magic to actually cast them, or something like that.

Intelligence is maybe too broad in theory, although this isn't much of a problem in practice to due to things that would be covered by Intelligence in, say, GURPS being covered by Wisdom or Charisma instead.

Wisdom works decently in purely "gamist" terms, but it's very strange conceptually, as I said earlier.

Spontaneous casting being Charisma-based makes sense for Bards and Favored Souls, but it's a bit odd for Sorcerers conceptually.

The trade-off between Charisma and other stats creates obstacles to participation in social situations that pose issues for some campaigns.

An idea off the top of my head (I'm sure an existing game has something like this, and I'm sure there's a big problem with it I'm not noticing): 9 stats (no skills): Muscle, Agility, Sciences, Humanities, Magic, Willpower, Senses, Eloquence, Cunning. Most characters will max two stats, invest somewhat in three or four, be mediocre at one or two, and be bad at one or two. Muscle covers endurance as well as strength, but doesn't affect hit points, which are determined directly by class. Eloquence is the most "social" stat, but Cunning, Willpower, and even Humanities can have social applications. Fighters use Muscle and Agility. Rogues use Agility and Cunning. Wizards (whose magic is based on theoretically objective principles) use Sciences and Magic. Clerics (who worship anthropomorphic deities) use Humanities and Magic. Bards use Eloquence and Magic. Sorcerers use Willpower and Magic. Rangers use Agility and Senses. Paladins use Muscle and Willpower.

Well, if your goal is to make a D&D heartbreaker you're following in the footsteps of a long and storied tradition. A nine-stat, no skills system isn't the worst hook I've heard for the idea.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 02:31

ActingPower: Jun 4, 2013

I've wondered myself if there's space in the design world for a game where the primary stats are things like DPS, Tank, Support, etc. It always seemed to me like "wizard who hucks powerful spells" and "Fighter who cuts guys innhalf" should have the same stats, and "wizard with utility spells" and "rogue with utility skills" should too, etc.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 02:36

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Ferrinus posted:

In On Contradiction, Mao Zedong lays out the difference between the metaphysical worldview of liberalism, which holds that things are driven by fundamentally static and eternal essences which can only change in quality, and the dialectical worldview of Marxism, which holds that things are in a process of constant transformation driven by the clash of internal forces. It's the liberal conception of reality, and therefore of history, that classifies people by supposed essential natures that then render those people civilized or savage, smart or stupid, innocent or criminal, and so on. This is why ability scores are not simply bad game design but a manifestation of the racial ideology that underlies western hegemony.

Hey, cool of you to bring out the revisionist capitalist roader. Why don't you bring some real Theory next time?

# ? Dec 30, 2023 02:39

Silver2195: Apr 4, 2012

ActingPower posted:

I've wondered myself if there's space in the design world for a game where the primary stats are things like DPS, Tank, Support, etc. It always seemed to me like "wizard who hucks powerful spells" and "Fighter who cuts guys innhalf" should have the same stats, and "wizard with utility spells" and "rogue with utility skills" should too, etc.

I think there are some PbtA games that work sort of like this, but they're generally a bit less on-the-nose with the stat names.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 02:41

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

ActingPower posted:

I've wondered myself if there's space in the design world for a game where the primary stats are things like DPS, Tank, Support, etc. It always seemed to me like "wizard who hucks powerful spells" and "Fighter who cuts guys innhalf" should have the same stats, and "wizard with utility spells" and "rogue with utility skills" should too, etc.

The Leverage RPG which was, ultimately, a Cortex hack had you have values for the five broad roles the main cast of the show had: Mastermind, Hitter, Grifter, Thief, Hacker.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 02:43

Griddle of Love: May 14, 2020

ActingPower posted:

I've wondered myself if there's space in the design world for a game where the primary stats are things like DPS, Tank, Support, etc. It always seemed to me like "wizard who hucks powerful spells" and "Fighter who cuts guys innhalf" should have the same stats, and "wizard with utility spells" and "rogue with utility skills" should too, etc.

Pillars of Eternity, TTRPG edition!

Tbh, LANCER's 'attributes' are a bit like that, only less thematic.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 03:07

bewilderment: Nov 22, 2007; man what

ActingPower posted:

I've wondered myself if there's space in the design world for a game where the primary stats are things like DPS, Tank, Support, etc. It always seemed to me like "wizard who hucks powerful spells" and "Fighter who cuts guys innhalf" should have the same stats, and "wizard with utility spells" and "rogue with utility skills" should too, etc.

Not as easily ported to TTRPGs but the Pillars of Eternity games did this.

There was no 'Strength' stat, there was Might, and it applied to all damage you did as well as all healing.

Other fun things included Perception applying to all durations you caused, Resolve applying to hostile effect duration on you, and Intellect increasing the safe zone (area where enemies will be hit but your allies aren't) of all AoEs, including stuff like Barbarian's cleave.

Downside: these were all also checked as dialogue options when they should have been totally separate because my character's combat style should not defin who I am out of combat! rope kiiiiiid!

# ? Dec 30, 2023 03:08

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Plutonis posted:

Hey, cool of you to bring out the revisionist capitalist roader. Why don't you bring some real Theory next time?

Well I wanna let people get their feet wet before I pull up a character sheet for https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Enver_Hoxha

# ? Dec 30, 2023 03:18

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

Griddle of Love posted:

Pillars of Eternity, TTRPG edition!

Tbh, LANCER's 'attributes' are a bit like that, only less thematic.

There is a official Pillars ttrpg: https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Pillars_of_Eternity_(pen-and-paper_RPG)

Stuck in alpha forever since Ropekid is busy.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 03:31

Kestral: Nov 24, 2000; Forum Veteran

DalaranJ posted:

For the sake of my future sanity, please reveal what are "the Good Potions"?

Some of it is context-dependent, because a good fight should rarely be as straightforward as storming into a 10' x 10' room and killing everything inside it, because every part composition is different (and its capabilities change as you go across the level range from 1 to 20), and because smart resource conservation is a thing, but generally The Good Potions are Speed, Heroism, Invulnerability, Flying, and some form of Giant Strength. All five can tilt a fight pretty hard at any level, but Speed and Flying in particular are devastating. Usually you only want one at a time and only when it's actually needed, but sometimes if you have some setup time and you know it'll be worth it, you can juice up the Fighter like Bane and it's very funny.

Also, it's important to remember that the effects provided by Speed, Heroism, and Flying aren't the spells Haste, Heroism, and Fly - they're straight-up better versions, enormously better in the case of a Potion of Flying, which lasts for an hour without taking up anyone's concentration slot.

D&D 5e characters should be spending money on these things at every opportunity, and manufacturing them in their downtime if you're using those rules (which you should, not least because it strongly pushes the party to have a home base). "But that's an unfair tax on martial characters" - it would be unfair, yes, if you let casters get away with not using spell components.

Make them use spell components. D&D is unironically much better when you actually use the rules that people have been desperately trying to forget exist since the late 90s.

Edit: Something people always seem to forget about Potions of Cloud Giant Strength or what-have-you is that when you drink it, you are now as strong as a cloud giant. It's not just "I have +2 more AB and damage than usual," you can do Cloud Giant Things. Enjoy.

Kestral fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Dec 30, 2023

# ? Dec 30, 2023 03:45

senrath: Nov 4, 2009; Look Professor, a destruct switch!

Kestral posted:

Make them use spell components. D&D is unironically much better when you actually use the rules that people have been desperately trying to forget exist since the late 90s.

I've never seen anyone try to forget expensive material components exist in any game I've been in or in any discussion I've read, and most spells in 5e don't use those anyway. Everything else you explicitly have access to with a tiny initial purchase of a component pouch or a focus item.

senrath fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Dec 30, 2023

# ? Dec 30, 2023 04:28

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Yeah 5e has very few exotic spell components and has the pouch to handwaved away all the non GP value components. It's not like you've got to carry around live spiders and vials of bitumen anymore.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 04:44

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Basically all the stuff that used to be speedbumps for caster has been sanded away. I remember absolutely deflating a guy once that was arguing that all you had to do in 3e to curb wizards was "just don't give them the power spells all the time!". Genuinely wouldn't believe that wizards in 3e just picked two spells for free every level gain until he saw the screenshot.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 04:53

Doctor Zaius: Jul 30, 2010; I say.

I also generally prefer the approach of giving martials expendable resources similar to spell slots, but also lmao imagine if martials just straight up picked some magic items to get for free every so often.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 05:43

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Antivehicular posted:

Yeah, let's table the question of what our political enemies may or may not believe about human capabilities and get back to the important stuff: games not bein' designed too good

On a completely different subject, has anyone here played Brindlewood Bay? I just got my physical copy right before Christmas vacation and have been enjoying reading it, and I'm really curious how it plays.

Played it at cons, never ran it, but based on what I've seen stump some GMs, something to watch out for is that even though Meddling is a player-initiated action that could theoretically dig up a clue in any circumstances, you should still only let them roll it if you have a way to give them a Clue, a Dark Clue, and some kind of downside. Just getting basic lay-of-the-land stuff isn't necessarily Meddling if you don't want the waitress at the Oh Deer Diner to get all sinister out of nowhere.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 06:05

mellonbread: Dec 20, 2017

Kestral posted:

Some of it is context-dependent, because a good fight should rarely be as straightforward as storming into a 10' x 10' room and killing everything inside it, because every part composition is different (and its capabilities change as you go across the level range from 1 to 20), and because smart resource conservation is a thing, but generally The Good Potions are Speed, Heroism, Invulnerability, Flying, and some form of Giant Strength. All five can tilt a fight pretty hard at any level, but Speed and Flying in particular are devastating. Usually you only want one at a time and only when it's actually needed, but sometimes if you have some setup time and you know it'll be worth it, you can juice up the Fighter like Bane and it's very funny.

When I used to do Pathfinder Society the front line combatants took Potions of Displacement to effectively halve incoming damage, and the casters used Potions of Reduce Person to wedge themselves in unreachable locations while firing off spells. I remember the adventures dropped lots of Potion[s] of [Animal]'s [Attribute] that temporarily boosted your stats, but nobody ever bought them with their own money.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 06:59

Ravus Ursus: Mar 30, 2017

Nessus posted:

I thought about this a fair bit and colony drops have such immense narrative scope that it almost feels like a UC Gundam-esque game would need some kind of narrative rules for the Signature Atrocity, since it defines and escalates the nature of the war. You actually would have to strategically create a situation where PCs do not have agency over the outcome of such a decisive thing. (This doesn't mean PCs couldn't prevent or avert a colony drop, in the sense of the literal physical/military event, of course.)

You have the atrocity pool.

After players engage with the enemy forces eventually one stands out and they've developed a RIVAL. The pool gets a point.

Out of mech events mean they interact with the rival in social setting and they generated TENSION. The pool gets a point.

They have a climactic DUEL or challenge each others IDEALS. The pool gets a point.

Eventually, something has to give and after enough of these and other events driving the atrocity pool reaches a threshold, the villain will commit a WAR CRIME. Might be a colony drop, maybe a genocide or biological/chemical weapon. Or maybe they defeat a capital ship in an especially hosed up way. Like disabling engines and pushing the immobile ship into the gravity well of a star so they get the worst death.

quote:

Mao talk

I bet he'd be a fan of GMs.

quote:

Lancer and Beam Saber

I'm pretty sure Beam Saber is straight up Gundam and Lancer has enough transhumanism in it that there gotta be a least a little Gundam leak in it. Though AC4 had a fair bit of that, so did 2 I guess.

Leo's Klein and the space hive would be a dope Signature Atrocity to unleash.

Who wins that fight? Nine Breaker and the space hive or Amuri with the ghost of Ramba guiding him?

# ? Dec 30, 2023 07:05

tanglewood1420: Oct 28, 2010; The importance of this mission cannot be overemphasized

Anyone have any thoughts or tips on the Modophius 2D20 system? Specifically Achtung! Cthulhu if there are differences between the games that use it.

Thinking of running a one shot of AC d20 in the near future and if it goes well a full campaign.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 10:44

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

https://nitter.net/IRHotTakes/status/1740736368148373651

# ? Dec 30, 2023 11:00

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

I don't like nitter, the site layout feels off compared to twitter. Also it doesn't embed so I have to click through and I'm lazy.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 11:18

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Just about any mech franchise you can name has some Gundam DNA in it unless it's exclusively drawing on older super robot stuff, you can't really escape it because it was so formative to the genre. Not even Battletech went untouched. Armored Core and Evangelion both, despite appearances, are pretty directly descended.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 11:34

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

tanglewood1420 posted:

Anyone have any thoughts or tips on the Modophius 2D20 system? Specifically Achtung! Cthulhu if there are differences between the games that use it.

Thinking of running a one shot of AC d20 in the near future and if it goes well a full campaign.

2d20 is hit or miss with people online, but I actually enjoyed playing it (Conan) more than I expected to based on how people talk about. There is a common criticism that the rules in all of 2d20 are oddly laid out and a pain to consult mid-play and that was my experience with Conan. I've heard A!C is supposed to be a tighter experience in that regard.

Also, if you end up hating 2d20, A!C was also released for CoC7e and Savage Worlds, you can still find the rulebooks online.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 11:43

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:21

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Runa posted:

Just about any mech franchise you can name has some Gundam DNA in it unless it's exclusively drawing on older super robot stuff, you can't really escape it because it was so formative to the genre. Not even Battletech went untouched. Armored Core and Evangelion both, despite appearances, are pretty directly descended.

Also kind of a point where you might need to define what actual influence from Gundam is meant to look like, given so many of its features have become reused and played with in so many ways. The focus on space colonies and their political relationships with each other and Earth is one thing that's still relatively unique, maybe. The spectacularly insane war crimes that usually provide a turning point in the story and/or define the current conflict are another, and in that case, somewhat spoilery but definitely something Lancer also has, kinda.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 12:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Trad Games Chat: squabbled over drafts, forked, and disbanded

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