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Also with strong central planning, designing structures for shorter lifespans and reduced lifetime inputs can be an effective strategy comparable to building long lifespan structures with high lifetime inputs. Of course strong central planning of buildings is anathema to the American economic system.
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Jan 3, 2024 17:58
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Trabisnikof posted:Also with strong central planning, designing structures for shorter lifespans and reduced lifetime inputs can be an effective strategy comparable to building long lifespan structures with high lifetime inputs. Yeah, euros love to poo poo on the stick framing that most American houses use, but it's fine for what it's supposed to do which is build, quick, cheap commodity housing. That we act like our cheap housing is actually worth a million dollars and can only go up is a problem of our own making.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:52
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You know there's nothing really inherently vulnerable or low-lifetime about stick-framed houses if they used high quality lumber and the carpentry was good. I grew up in a balloon-framed kit house that was about a hundred years old at the time and had no structural issues at all, and it's still there.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:59
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I'm not an expert or anything, but I did work construction, and we could build houses to last a hundred years or more if we wanted to. It would just require using thicker lumber and somewhat higher-quality materials at different stages of construction. But that makes Number Go Down, and more importantly, houses don't need to be sturdy or well-insulated to to be vehicles for financial products. Today, make your prayer: More of you, Number, and less of me, until it is the Market alone in my life
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Jan 3, 2024 19:12
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Apparently we've rediscovered how to make Roman concrete but we don't use it because there's not enough value in making building that much longer lasting with concrete that's that much more expensive
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Jan 3, 2024 19:17
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm not an expert or anything, but I did work construction, and we could build houses to last a hundred years or more if we wanted to. It would just require using thicker lumber and somewhat higher-quality materials at different stages of construction. But that makes Number Go Down, and more importantly, houses don't need to be sturdy or well-insulated to to be vehicles for financial products. Today, make your prayer: More of you, Number, and less of me, until it is the Market alone in my life Yeah. I think something that always strikes me as funny is that so much of the housing around me was, literally, ordered out of a catalog and shipped to the site as a kit. It was commodity housing in the absolute maximum sense of the word, mass-manufactured, built to a very specific set of price-points, and meant for assembly by semi-skilled labor in the shortest time possible. But it was commodity housing produced in an era before the total financialization of the housing market. The market-makers in the housing market then were either people buying themselves a place to live or people selling those people a place to live, rather than distant financial institutions with no more interest in the product itself than how quickly it can be generated and bundled into value-added financial products for investors.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:21
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Not only that, but the people putting the houses together were generally semi skilled, so they would know if the materials were garbage. The average person today is probably less likely to know when they're getting hosed over on the quality of the house they're buying.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:29
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm not an expert or anything, but I did work construction, and we could build houses to last a hundred years or more if we wanted to. It would just require using thicker lumber and somewhat higher-quality materials at different stages of construction. But that makes Number Go Down, and more importantly, houses don't need to be sturdy or well-insulated to to be vehicles for financial products. Today, make your prayer: More of you, Number, and less of me, until it is the Market alone in my life the market has determined that houses made of pine 2x4s with a plastic shell that cost $700k and last 10 years are actually the perfect form of housing. may as well argue with gravity
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Jan 3, 2024 19:30
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it's very funny to drive around suburban/exurban areas and see just the shittiest looking zero lotline houses all clustered together on what was previously a farm. so these people live in the middle of nowhere but they're still up in each other's assholes and often the houses cost more than in a place a person would actually wanna live. and the houses fall apart and the utilities the developers install for the development are also garbage. pretty good racket i suppose
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Jan 3, 2024 19:34
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BitcoinRockefeller posted:Yeah, euros love to poo poo on the stick framing that most American houses use, but it's fine for what it's supposed to do which is build, quick, cheap commodity housing. That we act like our cheap housing is actually worth a million dollars and can only go up is a problem of our own making. How can Euros poo poo on American building, the British didn’t know what insulation was until like 2003.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:45
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Gripweed posted:How can Euros poo poo on American building, the British didn’t know what insulation was until like 2003. Not euros though
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Jan 3, 2024 19:53
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Gripweed posted:How can Euros poo poo on American building, the British didn’t know what insulation was until like 2003. there was a recent mass protest movement to demand insulation start being used and it was suppressed as an enemy of the state and good order.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:55
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Hatebag posted:it's very funny to drive around suburban/exurban areas and see just the shittiest looking zero lotline houses all clustered together on what was previously a farm. so these people live in the middle of nowhere but they're still up in each other's assholes and often the houses cost more than in a place a person would actually wanna live. and the houses fall apart and the utilities the developers install for the development are also garbage. pretty good racket i suppose 17th century puritan urban planning practices have a lot to answer for
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Jan 3, 2024 19:55
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Gripweed posted:How can Euros poo poo on American building, the British didn’t know what insulation was until like 2003. Brits aren't Euros 
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Jan 3, 2024 19:55
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm not an expert or anything, but I did work construction, and we could build houses to last a hundred years or more if we wanted to. It would just require using thicker lumber and somewhat higher-quality materials at different stages of construction. But that makes Number Go Down, and more importantly, houses don't need to be sturdy or well-insulated to to be vehicles for financial products. Today, make your prayer: More of you, Number, and less of me, until it is the Market alone in my life sure, but there are some advantages to having a planned lifecycle for structures that let you re-evaluate your choices at shorter intervals. you can design components for improved end-of-life utilization (reuse/recycle/etc) and reduce the risk of locking in design choices that end up being less useful in the long term. like parking garages are a good example, where we've built them to last 50+ years and now we're having to imagine how to reuse them in a reduced car future. easy enough for garages attached to sfh, but harder for the massive ones. or imagine a world where socialism happens, and communal kitchens become a large part of daily life. the opportunity to rebuild the housing stock with smaller or fewer in-unit kitchens is an advantage of planned shorter lifespan infrastructure.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:07
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Trabisnikof posted:sure, but there are some advantages to having a planned lifecycle for structures that let you re-evaluate your choices at shorter intervals. you can design components for improved end-of-life utilization (reuse/recycle/etc) and reduce the risk of locking in design choices that end up being less useful in the long term. what if our planned shorter lifespan infrastructure is instead part of a growth ponzi scheme that also poisons the people who live in and around the infrastructure in the meantime
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Jan 3, 2024 20:14
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https://www.wsj.com/finance/currencies/the-dominant-dollar-faces-a-backlash-in-the-oil-market-0f151e28 https://archive.is/k8VkK The Dominant Dollar Faces a Backlash in the Oil Market An estimated 20% of global oil this year was bought and sold in other currencies as Russia and Iran sold cargoes to China and other buyers quote:... 
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Jan 3, 2024 20:14
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The Oldest Man posted:what if our planned shorter lifespan infrastructure is instead part of a growth ponzi scheme that also poisons the people who live in and around the infrastructure in the meantime it can be two things
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Jan 3, 2024 20:15
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The Oldest Man posted:what if our planned shorter lifespan infrastructure is instead part of a growth ponzi scheme that also poisons the people who live in and around the infrastructure in the meantime tempting, but unless it also alienates the individual and crushes the community im not on board
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Jan 3, 2024 20:16
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm not an expert or anything, but I did work construction, and we could build houses to last a hundred years or more if we wanted to. It would just require using thicker lumber and somewhat higher-quality materials at different stages of construction. But that makes Number Go Down, and more importantly, houses don't need to be sturdy or well-insulated to to be vehicles for financial products. Today, make your prayer: More of you, Number, and less of me, until it is the Market alone in my life We sit together, the Market and I, until only the Market remains.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:20
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Hatebag posted:it's very funny to drive around suburban/exurban areas and see just the shittiest looking zero lotline houses all clustered together on what was previously a farm. so these people live in the middle of nowhere but they're still up in each other's assholes and often the houses cost more than in a place a person would actually wanna live. and the houses fall apart and the utilities the developers install for the development are also garbage. pretty good racket i suppose I end up watching a bunch of home inspector videos on facebook, and biased sampling but American and British housing quality is absloute dogshit. But its not just the ugly tract housing, its everything. These billion dollar investment condos built along Central Park are less than 10 years old and they're all falling apart and leaking as reported by the very few people that actually live in those towers
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Jan 3, 2024 20:37
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Boat Stuck posted:https://www.wsj.com/finance/currencies/the-dominant-dollar-faces-a-backlash-in-the-oil-market-0f151e28 critical support to the biden administration for killing the petrodollar
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Jan 3, 2024 20:38
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KomradeX posted:I end up watching a bunch of home inspector videos on facebook, and biased sampling but American and British housing quality is absloute dogshit. case in point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xezg8PxVSYA
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Jan 3, 2024 20:41
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KomradeX posted:I end up watching a bunch of home inspector videos on facebook, and biased sampling but American and British housing quality is absloute dogshit. yeah housing became a speculative asset in the 80s so i wouldn't buy anything built after then. which is too bad because that's around when asbestos drywall and lead paint were phased out in the us. lead pipes weren't banned until 86 lol i just live in a very sturdy 150 year old pile of asbestos and lead
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Jan 3, 2024 20:52
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KomradeX posted:I end up watching a bunch of home inspector videos on facebook, and biased sampling but American and British housing quality is absloute dogshit. oh yeah British newbuilds are just the worst. And as they've got shittier they've raised in price. Excellent.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:57
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I wonder what it's like to make $200,000 a year and live in a high rise apartment that's mostly empty because the other tenants are investors.
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Jan 3, 2024 21:06
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im just going to tell you why you should watch this: this is a hundred million dollar condo skyscraper, in downtown san francisco that is sinking because it wasnt designed right, and that sinking was bad enough to cause panes of glass on the building facade to shatter and fall into the street in high winds the engineering company brought in to fix this rested the entire structural fix on a series of small steel plates sitting at the bottom of new piles that were installed under the building the engineer of record does not appear to have done any actual math to determine whether those plates can handle the loads that are on them to support the building that engineer's name is Ronald Hamburger
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Jan 3, 2024 21:08
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Ronald Hamburgerbrain.
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Jan 3, 2024 21:15
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The Oldest Man posted:im just going to tell you why you should watch this: this is a hundred million dollar condo skyscraper, in downtown san francisco that is sinking because it wasnt designed right, and that sinking was bad enough to cause panes of glass on the building facade to shatter and fall into the street in high winds single family housing stays winning sullat posted:I sit in my cubicle, here on the motherworld. When I die, they will put me in a box and dispose of it in the cold ground. And in all the million ages to come, I will never breath, or laugh, or twitch again. So won't you run and play with me here among the teeming mass of humanity? The universe has spared us this moment. reading this hit me like a truck so i looked it up expecting it to be a vonnegut line i hadn't come across, or maybe leguin, but it's from a video game lmao. top tier stuff though
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Jan 3, 2024 21:17
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interesting video, and 8 months later, looks like no info on the question raised
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Jan 3, 2024 21:26
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The Oldest Man posted:
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Jan 3, 2024 22:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:excited for lumber brutalism Even cooler: 
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Jan 3, 2024 23:43
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So if that San Francisco tower tumbles, that wiped out Pelosi's district right?
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Jan 3, 2024 23:45
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I am sure most of the SanFran tower owners are speculators.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:excited for lumber brutalism SplinterPunk
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Jan 4, 2024 00:08
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The Oldest Man posted:im just going to tell you why you should watch this: this is a hundred million dollar condo skyscraper, in downtown san francisco that is sinking because it wasnt designed right, and that sinking was bad enough to cause panes of glass on the building facade to shatter and fall into the street in high winds But thaaaaat's my life!
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Jan 4, 2024 00:09
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Halloween Jack posted:Not only that, but the people putting the houses together were generally semi skilled, so they would know if the materials were garbage. The average person today is probably less likely to know when they're getting hosed over on the quality of the house they're buying. No one is pulling drywall to see what number studs they got, ive framed some crooked rear end poo poo, there are plenty of tricks to work it straight, and you wont notice it till that starts to fail years and years down the line and the drywall starts to bulge. Besides, houses dont exist so people have a place to live, they are 100% investment vehicles.
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Jan 4, 2024 00:17
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Ted Wassanasong posted:No one is pulling drywall to see what number studs they got, ive framed some crooked rear end poo poo, there are plenty of tricks to work it straight, and you wont notice it till that starts to fail years and years down the line and the drywall starts to bulge. the same can be said of the usa
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Jan 4, 2024 02:10
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gradenko_2000 posted:excited for lumber brutalism welcome to mass timber binch 
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Jan 4, 2024 02:25
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The Oldest Man posted:im just going to tell you why you should watch this: this is a hundred million dollar condo skyscraper, in downtown san francisco that is sinking because it wasnt designed right, and that sinking was bad enough to cause panes of glass on the building facade to shatter and fall into the street in high winds This sounds like the narration for a space station 13 let's play.
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Jan 4, 2024 03:06
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