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CJ
Jul 3, 2007

Asbungold
I got to infinite with Hela. I had like a 75% win rate until i got to 98 then dropped it to 58% trying to get those last two levels.

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Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

CJ posted:

I got to infinite with Hela. I had like a 75% win rate until i got to 98 then dropped it to 58% trying to get those last two levels.

Whenever I get above 95 or so, I just start to play super safe and exit any game that doesn't look certain for 1 cube. The frequency of bot matches (I seem to get them about 1-in-5 games) means that you can go even against players while farming the robits and still gain rank with almost no risk.

Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Jan 7, 2024

CJ
Jul 3, 2007

Asbungold

Skippy McPants posted:

Whenever time I get above 95 or so, I just start to play super safe and exit any game that doesn't look certain for 1 cube. The frequency of bot matches (I seem to get them about 1-in-5 games) means that you can go even against players while farming the robits and still gain rank with almost no risk.

I actually lost 8 cubes against a bot in that run because of the most insane casino bullshit sequences. It was a lot less than 1 in 5 games this time, it's weird because usually i get a lot of bots. Probably because i wasn't playing at 3am this time.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Skippy McPants posted:

And, again, "whale" is a very relative term here. You can obtain 80% of new cards for $9.99 per month, and 100% of cards for ~$60 per month. That is pretty mild as CCGs go.

It's not "pretty mild" when you're talking about four cards.

Also you're provably wrong about SP-only players being able to acquire 80% of new cards, especially now the release rate has been upped by adding a new S5 card in pass week. The numbers aren't even complex: if you play every day and complete all missions then you earn roughly 1.2 keys a week, and it takes an average of 2.5 keys to open a new card. The rate of acquisition is a bit higher than 50% as you'll get enough tokens to buy an S5 roughly three times a year, and you'll get some cards on the second pass through Spotlights, but the former is nowhere close to 80% and the latter isn't getting the cards when they're new.

Personally I'm SP plus a little spend and my collection ranges from 7-10 cards missing depending on how long I go without a good week. However, that's with a bunch of hoarded tokens from before the Spotlight system which are steadily depleting with time. If I'm 80% complete by the end of February I will have exhausted them all unless I get very lucky.

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

It is pretty mild when you're paying $10 for four cards. That is a bargain compared to something like MTG or Hearthstone.

You do make one fair point, which is that my 85% of cards for Season Pass players was based on the four-cards-per-month release schedule of previous seasons. WIth the new five cards/mo release pace, that number drops to ~70%, which is a non-trivial reduction.

uXs
May 3, 2005

Mark it zero!
I think the biggest issue I have is that even as a player who spends way more than they should, I still don't have:

* Howard the Duck (May)
* Lady Deathstrike (August)
* Master Mold (July)
* Stegron (August)

(And Martyr but ok.)

That's just silly.

Then again, Howard and Lady Deathstrike are going to series 4 in a few days and Master Mold and Stegron to 3, so that means I'll have every single card. Except Martyr who literally tries to lose you the game.

psychopomp
Jan 28, 2011
I usually only go season pass, but the week's closing out and I still don't have Nebula or Caiera, my two remaining spotlight cards. I've finished this week's chapter and still have a long way to go for the next key and two days to do it.

Only way I can see popping enough for another key is buying the Ice Man bundle from the web store, then using that gold to buy the Sauron bundle for the 2800 credits. This nabs me either Caiera or Nebula for $15. I also get the variants of Iceman and Sauron and some boosters I don't particularly need, which aren't the draw here for me.

Good idea? Bad idea?

Devo
Jul 9, 2001

:siren:Caught Cubs Posting:siren:
They're both good cards, but whether you want to spend real life cash money on them is your decision. They'll both be back in spotlights at some point in the future.

Snazzy Frocks
Mar 31, 2003

Scratchmo

psychopomp posted:

I usually only go season pass, but the week's closing out and I still don't have Nebula or Caiera, my two remaining spotlight cards. I've finished this week's chapter and still have a long way to go for the next key and two days to do it.

Only way I can see popping enough for another key is buying the Ice Man bundle from the web store, then using that gold to buy the Sauron bundle for the 2800 credits. This nabs me either Caiera or Nebula for $15. I also get the variants of Iceman and Sauron and some boosters I don't particularly need, which aren't the draw here for me.

Good idea? Bad idea?

This is the exact scenario SD desires

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Skippy McPants posted:

It is pretty mild when you're paying $10 for four cards. That is a bargain compared to something like MTG or Hearthstone.

You saying "but it's only $10 for four cards" does not make it true. It may be true if you have no S4/5 cards. It is not true if you have as many as half of them. You might get two, and you don't get to choose what they are. A comparative spend in Hearthstone would get you seven packs a month, which is 35 cards - considerably more even though decks are 30 cards instead of 12. You can get them in a set of your choice and while you technically get less specific choice within that set than in Snap, the conversion rate for cards of the same rarity is 4:1 instead of 6:1 with a chance of a flat 1:1 trade if you get a golden card.

take three tablets
Nov 21, 2005

Hell Gem
It’s 35 cards but the equivalent of a series 5 in Hearthstone is 1/20 packs. Nothing is directly comparable but on average something like 15 of those cards are commons which might as well be free. At 7 packs a month you’re averaging ~1.5 epics and .33 legendaries. I don’t actually think Hearthstone comes out looking great in this comparison.

Snazzy Frocks
Mar 31, 2003

Scratchmo
Hearthstone I could pay 80 bucks for every pre-order and still feel like I'm missing a fair number of important cards. At least snap I can do about the same for $10/month

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


I think the fact that you don’t actually want a lot of the cards muddies things. Yeah you could pay $X to get everything, but I don’t think anyone is heartbroken about not having Howard or Stegron or whatever. The accumulation is really only an issue if you absolutely must have every card

Devo
Jul 9, 2001

:siren:Caught Cubs Posting:siren:
I have bought every season pass since global launch, so I believe that's $160. If you add in the other small bundles I've bought, nothing more than $10 at any one time, I would estimate I have spent between $200 and $225 on this game since last October. I am missing the following cards:

- Howard the Duck
- Spider-Man 2099
- Martyr

None of those are actually cards. In addition to that, I currently have about 13k tokens I could use to directly purchase these cards if I really wanted a complete collection.
I used to spend $100+ on every Hearthstone expansion (3 times a year) and I did not have anywhere near a complete collection. Yes, in Hearthstone you can cannibalize your old cards to make new ones if you only play Standard. I liked to dabble in things like Duels and Wild so I didn't like doing that. In addition to that, there were plenty of bad epic and legendary cards I would collect by opening packs every expansion. Don't even get me started on paper Magic.

Could the monetization in this game be better? Yeah, I'd be lying if I said it couldn't be a little more friendly. But I think most of the problems with card acquisition are coming in series 3 where there's so much bloat it takes forever to get through it. Endgame players complaining about acquisition are really wearing rose-colored glasses when it comes to thinking back on the original token system. Remember seeing a new card that looked kind of cool but you weren't sure if it would actually be good? Cool, I'll just wait 3 months until I can actually get it because I don't want to burn these tokens. This does not happen anymore. You can get whatever cards you want if you just engage with the system in a way that makes sense.

psychopomp
Jan 28, 2011

Snazzy Frocks posted:

This is the exact scenario SD desires

I've fallen into their trap and emerged with Nebula and seven unopened caches for when all those cards drop to S3 in a few days.

Umbra Dubium
Nov 23, 2007

The British Empire was built on cups of tea, and if you think I'm going into battle without one, you're sorely mistaken!



Maybe I'm too naive here but I can't help feeling that they'd get way more money from the game by dropping the price of that 99.99 bundle by 90%.

Are there that many whales?

Big Mouth Billy Basshole
Jun 18, 2007

Fun Shoe
Whales seem to keep a lot of mobile games afloat, so it seems like there are still a lot of them out there.

One thing that Hearthstone does well is the duplicate protection. Getting 1000 tokens for a S4 or S5 card you already have is insultingly low.

Big Mouth Billy Basshole fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jan 7, 2024

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Devo posted:

seeing a new card that looked kind of cool but you weren't sure if it would actually be good? Cool, I'll just wait 3 months until I can actually get it because I don't want to burn these tokens. This does not happen anymore. You can get whatever cards you want if you just engage with the system in a way that makes sense.

This does happen, because if you don’t have the spotlights to open a card in a given week, the following week it becomes the meta, you cannot unlock that card with spotlights again until SD deigns to put it back in. Under the old system, you’d have to wait at least a month to be able to afford a S5 (5800 tokens a month). Now you have to wait 6 months (1000 tokens a month) or until SD puts it back in spotlights, where it might be with two other cards you already own and thus, as others have stated, stupid to open spotlights this week.

Ultimately this spotlight thing comes down to choice vs no choice, you get more with no choice but a way greater feelsbad vector.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Umbra Dubium posted:

Maybe I'm too naive here but I can't help feeling that they'd get way more money from the game by dropping the price of that 99.99 bundle by 90%.

Are there that many whales?

We used to regularly have cool and interesting bundles for $5-15 all the time but they recently started this as the central business practice.

Devo
Jul 9, 2001

:siren:Caught Cubs Posting:siren:
The 1000 tokens a month thing isn't true unless you're way luckier in opening spotlights than I am. If you've got a decent sized collection you're going to hit that dummy box a fair amount of times. I just checked and I have 14,450 tokens and I never buy the things. Despite that, I've got basically all of the cards.

psychopomp
Jan 28, 2011

Devo posted:

The 1000 tokens a month thing isn't true unless you're way luckier in opening spotlights than I am. If you've got a decent sized collection you're going to hit that dummy box a fair amount of times. I just checked and I have 14,450 tokens and I never buy the things. Despite that, I've got basically all of the cards.

You win!

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Devo posted:

The 1000 tokens a month thing isn't true unless you're way luckier in opening spotlights than I am. If you've got a decent sized collection you're going to hit that dummy box a fair amount of times. I just checked and I have 14,450 tokens and I never buy the things. Despite that, I've got basically all of the cards.

Okay, so if the system is especially rough to you, you only have to wait 3 months instead of 6? I don’t think this refutes the statement I made.

Devo
Jul 9, 2001

:siren:Caught Cubs Posting:siren:

Sandwolf posted:

Okay, so if the system is especially rough to you, you only have to wait 3 months instead of 6? I don’t think this refutes the statement I made.

Agree to disagree I guess. You're correct that you had more choice under the old system. It's just that the old system sucked rear end and if you chose to skip a week to get the next week's card you were screwed out of playing with that card for the next 3 months. The only engagement I've had with the token system since the spotlight system came around is to buy direct to S4 cards on weeks when I already had the other two cards in the pool. Tokens sucked and I don't miss them at all.

Nikumatic
Feb 13, 2012

a fantastic machine made of meat
I'm fine with the Spotlight System. I don't love it or hate it. I had a rough initial month or two with it while I saved up my keys, but now they're saved up and I can get any card I want the first week if I so desire, but can't/won't just throw keys at every single week so that I can't easily get to collection complete, so it's working as intended. I'll go in fully on any week where there are two cards I need or 1 card with variants I want and otherwise skip.

But it is, was, and will be bullshit how slapdashedly it was launched with eating people's unlocks without a confirmation window and repeating cards quickly because they didn't have enough variants in the pipeline for it and STILL don't since we're still getting 700g level variants instead of "cool, exclusive" spotlight art for every release as well as putting a loving bullet into series drops for 6 months. You don't gotta hand it to 'em.

sailormoon
Jun 28, 2014

fighting evil by moonlight
winning love by daylight


How is magic the gathering online money wise? Was looking to do another card game when I burn out on this each season

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead





Spotlights are 95% a good idea that's just too goddamn half assed. When you're still acquiring series 3 cards and will see 2-3 new cards weekly in spotlights, they feel pretty great to catch up with established players.

When you're series 3 complete, and at most see 1-2 new cards a week (including the guaranteed new card for the week), it's not surprising that you're going to have to pick your battles and can't get every new card.

But the booby prizes are extraordinarily lovely. 1000 tokens is an insult. But the combination of rotating old lovely cards more often than more popular and more powerful cards to make sure there's never too much value, including a ton of terrible variants, and also throttling shop variants for S4/S5 cards is a much more systemic problem.

Getting ultra-rare and cool variants for cards you like is great, but they have made the value so bad that for multiple weeks in a row, there's no desire at all to pull the gacha.

CJ
Jul 3, 2007

Asbungold
I got She-Hulk as the random card in the shop but i still don't have Magik so i won't be able to play her deck even if i get it. It feels like it would be better to just not get her to increase the odds of getting one of them in my caches so i can then get the other one in the shop.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Opopanax posted:

I think the fact that you don’t actually want a lot of the cards muddies things. Yeah you could pay $X to get everything, but I don’t think anyone is heartbroken about not having Howard or Stegron or whatever. The accumulation is really only an issue if you absolutely must have every card

This. If there's a week whey they offer Alioth, Howard, and Echo, I just know my first key is giving me the rando/token slot or Howard.

I'd almost rather keys took longer to get, but you had a choice of which card you received.


Infinite Karma posted:

Spotlights are 95% a good idea that's just too goddamn half assed. When you're still acquiring series 3 cards and will see 2-3 new cards weekly in spotlights, they feel pretty great to catch up with established players.

When you're series 3 complete, and at most see 1-2 new cards a week (including the guaranteed new card for the week), it's not surprising that you're going to have to pick your battles and can't get every new card.

But the booby prizes are extraordinarily lovely. 1000 tokens is an insult. But the combination of rotating old lovely cards more often than more popular and more powerful cards to make sure there's never too much value, including a ton of terrible variants, and also throttling shop variants for S4/S5 cards is a much more systemic problem.

Getting ultra-rare and cool variants for cards you like is great, but they have made the value so bad that for multiple weeks in a row, there's no desire at all to pull the gacha.

If they improved the random card/token slot, it'd be infinitely better. The idea of getting a random S4/5 card is great, except if you land on one you already have, you should either get 3k tokens, or just shift to another S4/5 card you don't have. And if you have all of those, just default to 3k tokens - the equivalent of just buying a new card at the lower tier. It'd also be nice if it was guaranteed that that slot was always the 4th thing you got.

Beasteh
Feb 12, 2012

I'M QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE AND THIS IDIOT JUST WANTS TO PEE OFF A WALL

I hit infinite and tryharded so much it gave me a headache hell yeah

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


I swear to God they coded Sakaar to target Hela.

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

Opopanax posted:

I swear to God they coded Sakaar to target Hela.

One time, I was in a bad spot against Hela Casino and my only play was to Snowguard Bear onto Sakaar. Guess which card I hit?

Snazzy Frocks
Mar 31, 2003

Scratchmo
Bear works on sakaar now?

Ninurta
Sep 19, 2007
What the HELL? That's my cutting board.

Neat variant that I'll never use mk 237481.

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

Snazzy Frocks posted:

Bear works on sakaar now?

Pardon, I meant Sokovia.

Too many dang locations.

When Pigs Cry
Oct 23, 2012
Buglord

Ninurta posted:

Neat variant that I'll never use mk 237481.



I literally opened this variant this morning lmao. It was almost cool until I looked at it long enough to realize that Rhino is a guy who dresses up like a rhino (just now).

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

When Pigs Cry posted:

I literally opened this variant this morning lmao. It was almost cool until I looked at it long enough to realize that Rhino is a guy who dresses up like a rhino (just now).

Spider-Man gives Batman a run for his money when it comes to lame villains in his rogues' gallery.

Edit: including masterworks such as,

BIG WHEEL


and LEAPFROG!


And apparently, Leapfrog has no direct connection to Venture Bros' Brick Frog.

Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jan 8, 2024

Nikumatic
Feb 13, 2012

a fantastic machine made of meat

When Pigs Cry posted:

I literally opened this variant this morning lmao. It was almost cool until I looked at it long enough to realize that Rhino is a guy who dresses up like a rhino (just now).

actually he is permanently stuck in the rhino suit so have some respect for how bad my guy smells

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Skippy McPants posted:

Spider-Man gives Batman a run for his money when it comes to the best villains ever in his rogues' gallery.

Fixed this for you

Bad Video Games
Sep 17, 2017


Flash has the best Rogues Gallery, and it's not even close.

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DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.

Umbra Dubium posted:


Are there that many whales?

Going by the number of people I go up against with FULL INKED decks with rare/super rare variants..yes. Yes there are.

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