(Thread IKs:
OwlFancier)
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By that logic then there should not be any form of economic divestment from countries engaged in actions you disagree with because it's pointless.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:07
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Julio Cruz posted:Israel is going to keep doing until and unless the US tells them to stop, no sort of shipping blockade is going to make the slightest bit of difference Pack it up lads, anything other than getting elected to the US govt. is pointless in the face of a genocide.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:07
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Julio Cruz posted:Israel is going to keep doing until and unless the US tells them to stop, no sort of shipping blockade is going to make the slightest bit of difference https://twitter.com/InternetHippo/status/881161169469403137?t=j-KtTbeLoeT20PmBWEtORQ&s=19
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Jan 13, 2024 19:07
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/InternetHippo/status/881161169469403137?t=j-KtTbeLoeT20PmBWEtORQ&s=19 lol “shooting at people who don’t deserve it is fine, actually” - a supposed leftist
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Jan 13, 2024 19:10
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Who does deserve shooting and why?
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Jan 13, 2024 19:11
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Julio Cruz posted:lol You're in the "spinning out and making up imaginary conversations" phase of this posting cycle. Please make sure to take 5 minute breaks every hour and stay hydrated
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Jan 13, 2024 19:13
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Julio Cruz posted:Israel is going to keep going until and unless the US tells them to stop, no sort of shipping blockade is going to make the slightest bit of difference It was pointed out in this thread weeks ago that there was discontent within Israel from civilians who were angry at the A bit of extra economic pressure on the government will make some sort of difference. It's one thing to get shipments of arms from your allies; if you start asking them to send food while you're also asking for weapons, that's the kind of bad optics I reckon even a few hardliners would flinch at.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:13
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OwlFancier posted:Who does deserve shooting and why? no-one, but I wouldn’t lose too much sleep if Bibi or some IDF commanders got shot I don’t see why it’s acceptable that someone who’s just working on a ship should suddenly become an acceptable target because that ship might be going somewhere vaguely near the Red Sea
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Jan 13, 2024 19:14
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Failed Imagineer posted:You're in the "spinning out and making up imaginary conversations" phase of this posting cycle. Please make sure to take 5 minute breaks every hour and stay hydrated This isn’t a cycle this is just how he posts. In other news I finally got my Palestine flag up in the window. The local shop has started selling them which is nice. Victory to all who resist oppression imo
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Jan 13, 2024 19:15
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Failed Imagineer posted:You're in the "spinning out and making up imaginary conversations" phase of this posting cycle. Please make sure to take 5 minute breaks every hour and stay hydrated am I making up the bit where I was described as a centrist not a leftist, or the numerous posts where people justified opening fire on civilians
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Jan 13, 2024 19:16
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Julio Cruz posted:am I making up the bit where I was described as a centrist not a leftist, or the numerous posts where people justified opening fire on civilians Agreed that calling Liberals Centrists is pretty wrong imo. The ones with one foot in each side are the Social Democrats.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:17
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Julio Cruz posted:am I making up the bit where I was described as a centrist not a leftist, or the numerous posts where people justified opening fire on civilians How many civilians has Yemen killed again?
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Jan 13, 2024 19:19
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kingturnip posted:It was pointed out in this thread weeks ago that there was discontent within Israel from civilians who were angry at the thank you for making an actual argument and not just attacking me given Biden’s full-throated support of Israel’s actions so far I think it’s unlikely that he’d refuse extra aid for Israel if they asked for it, but at some point surely he’s got to think about November’s Trump rematch and realise that genocide polls really, really badly with Dems, so who knows
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Jan 13, 2024 19:22
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Jakabite posted:How many civilians has Yemen killed again? I don’t recall claiming that they’d killed any, so now who’s making things up
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Jan 13, 2024 19:22
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Julio Cruz posted:lol They're delivering goods to a nation that is committing genocide. We've been doing this to countries all over the planet for far weaker reasons and with entirely predictable consequences for civilian populations much less capable of surviving than Israel and with much less deliverable demands than "Stop committing genocide". Hell, we literally just did this to Yemen. Hundreds of thousands killed for literally no gain beyond arms sales. Famine created by us to benefit Saudi Arabia. What's notable is that the Houthi have pretty much completely adopted the language of the Liberal West when they attempted to justify every military intervention over the past 30 years. You can argue they're doing it far more sincerely because they haven't killed a single civilian and the West regularly drown people in the Mediterranean for trying to escape our last intervention. Gonzo McFee fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 19:27
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Julio Cruz posted:I don’t recall claiming that they’d killed any, so now who’s making things up I didn’t claim you did, just wanted to clarify. If the answer is zero, then could you stop posting? Reading your posts is as likely to kill me through an aneurysm as any Yemeni missile is to kill a shipping worker and I know you don’t agree with endangering civilians for any reason.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:28
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Julio Cruz posted:no-one, but I wouldn’t lose too much sleep if Bibi or some IDF commanders got shot Because almost every action you could possibly take in the world which would affect change, will cause somebody who probably doesn't deserve it to suffer and perhaps die. If you divested from Russia after the invasion of Ukraine, that's going to put Russian workers out of a job, they're going to go hungry. Why should they be acceptable targets? If you cut police numbers that's going to happen too. What about the direct military conflict? I doubt most of the Russian army signed up to go die in Ukraine, but I don't suppose you would think it unreasonable that people should shoot at them when they're invading, regardless of the fact that the majority of them probably have a pretty lovely life that led them to be in that position. Militaries don't generally select for people who fully understand what they're getting into and are free of other coercive factors making it an appealing career option. History is also replete with examples of people putting the lives of people who weren't directly responsible for the wrongs they were fighting, at risk in order to accomplish some goal we would probably, in hindsight, say was worthwhile. I'm sure if the people shooting at the ships had a magic bullet that would home in on the brains of the leaders of the IDF they would use them, but they don't have that sort of thing. It is the nature of human conflict and the way our societies are organized, that the people who are most responsible for causing problems in the world are also most protected from the consequences of those decisions. Militaries and polities more generally are structured so that the people in charge aren't the ones getting shot. In the scheme of things, being able to threaten ships with damage or destruction and keep as many as possible from trying to transit the gulf of aden without so far actually killing people, is postively angelic in terms of effectiveness against human misery inflicted. So people are going to think it strange when this specific thing is the cause for concern, and not any of the things surrounding why it's happening.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:28
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Gonzo McFee posted:They're delivering goods to a nation that is committing genocide. We've been doing this to countries all over the planet for far weaker reasons and with entirely predictable consequences for civilian populations much less capable of surviving than Israel and with much less deliverable demands than "Stop committing genocide". assuming that they’re only shooting at ships going to Israel (which iirc the guy who actually works on one of those ships said wasn’t true) that’s not the crew’s fault, I doubt they get much input on where their cargo ends up I have no problem with a blockade of Israel but I don’t agree with putting undeserving people in danger to do so
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Jan 13, 2024 19:30
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How do you enforce a blockade without physically stopping people from going through a place with threat of violence?
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Jan 13, 2024 19:31
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Julio Cruz posted:assuming that they’re only shooting at ships going to Israel (which iirc the guy who actually works on one of those ships said wasn’t true) that’s not the crew’s fault, I doubt they get much input on where their cargo ends up Then take it up with the companies who are ignoring a publicly announced blockade and putting their workers at risk.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:32
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Julio Cruz posted:I have no problem with a blockade of Israel but I don’t agree with putting undeserving people in danger to do so lol this is great
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Jan 13, 2024 19:34
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What would your stance be on picket lines? Why should workers be called scabs and harassed and threatened by strikers just because they need to go to work?
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Jan 13, 2024 19:34
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Jakabite posted:I didn’t claim you did, just wanted to clarify. I'm afraid as a conscript in the Posting Wars you are a legitimate target
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Jan 13, 2024 19:34
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Julio Cruz posted:assuming that they’re only shooting at ships going to Israel (which iirc the guy who actually works on one of those ships said wasn’t true) that’s not the crew’s fault, I doubt they get much input on where their cargo ends up Do you understand what a blockade is? We're not blocking the way by lining up ships, we're drawing lines in the waves and killing anyone who tries to cross them. You may not be a liberal/Centrist but you've certainly been hidden away from the gross reality of our cleaned up Liberal terminology.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:36
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Julio Cruz posted:I have no problem with a blockade of Israel but I don’t agree with putting undeserving people in danger to do so I don't doubt that it sucks to be in the merchant navy, especially during a time of war, but ultimately the shipping companies are the one making the decision to send people into what they know is a dangerous area.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:43
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Gonzo McFee posted:Do you understand what a blockade is? We're not blocking the way by lining up ships, we're drawing lines in the waves and killing anyone who tries to cross them. That's an extremely hosed up thing to be doing if taken in complete isolation, but the men aboard, many of them freedmen themselves, some of them just privateers chasing a bounty, still believed that what they were preventing was a far worse thing than what they were doing. (Even the bounty hunters, they'd be making more as a human trafficking blockade runner than as a preventative if that were all they cared about.) People don't do blockades for a laugh. Sometimes they do so for very misguided reasons, but they always do so knowing in advance what a blockade involves. I think also that's the issue here, we have decided that governments may, for reasons we may agree or disagree with, make the call to blockade, but the way this one is being talked about by the press and government denies the legitimacy of Yemen and implies that a bunch of terrorists have just decided to throw missiles at boats for bantz.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:50
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Jan 13, 2024 19:51
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Can I just pop my hand up here and say that I wasn’t trying to start a debate on the morality of blockading Israel, I don’t have any problem with that. I was seeing a lot of language like attacking “shipping companies” or “damaging hdtvs” and I wanted to remind people that it’s people on those ships and I’m sorry but the fact that nobody has died yet seriously isn’t because the folks in Yemen are trick shotting their missiles and drones in an extremely operator like fashion, it’s pure luck and the fact that a whole bunch of them are getting shot down. It doesn’t matter if you don’t give a poo poo regardless but you could at least be clear eyed about what you’re hand waving away as unfortunate necessity. Honestly my anger is reserved for the idiots in our office who decided to send people through despite the danger and gave them no choice in the matter.dadrips posted:Why aren't you more concerned about the shipping companies willingly putting their staff in danger, instead of those expressing international solidarity in the face of mass slaughter? Yeah p much this. Mr Teatime fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 19:51
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Are the Houthis actually helping anyone other than themselves with these attacks? And if not, are they actually trying to? And before anyone accuses me of being some kind of liberal hypocrite, the reason I'm not asking these questions of the Tories' response is that I already know the answer in that case is no, and no.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:56
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Dabir posted:Are the Houthis actually helping anyone other than themselves with these attacks? And if not, are they actually trying to? And before anyone accuses me of being some kind of liberal hypocrite, the reason I'm not asking these questions of the Tories' response is that I already know the answer in that case is no, and no. How are they helping themselves here?
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Jan 13, 2024 20:01
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Brendan Rodgers posted:How are they helping themselves here? They need an external enemy to justify their rule.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:05
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Dabir posted:Are the Houthis actually helping anyone other than themselves with these attacks? And if not, are they actually trying to? And before anyone accuses me of being some kind of liberal hypocrite, the reason I'm not asking these questions of the Tories' response is that I already know the answer in that case is no, and no. What are they gaining? As far as I can tell they've made themselves targets for every Western Country to slaughter and there's only one road that leads to. This isn't Blair claiming to be a liberal and then making millions in his blood money institute. There is no off ramp where doing this means you retire one of the most powerful people on the planet.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:07
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Julio Cruz posted:given Biden’s full-throated support of Israel’s actions so far I think it’s unlikely that he’d refuse extra aid for Israel if they asked for it, but at some point surely he’s got to think about November’s Trump rematch and realise that genocide polls really, really badly with Dems, so who knows That situation is a no win for Biden. If he supports Israel he'll be attacked for supporting genocide. If he abandons Israel or threatens to do so he'll be attacked for being pro-Muslim and for wanting to bring about the second Holocaust. And all by people who would have fully supported the first Holocaust and want to see the people of Gaza exterminated. It's the end point of Lib Brain: you move closer to the fash to chase their vote to the point where your party can't be separated from theirs with a cigarette paper, and you get destroyed because your own side can't stand your evil and the other side will never vote for you whatever you do.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:07
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Nenonen posted:They need an external enemy to justify their rule. Well it's a good thing we've given them that in spades, eh?
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Jan 13, 2024 20:08
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Dabir posted:Are the Houthis actually helping anyone other than themselves with these attacks? And if not, are they actually trying to? And before anyone accuses me of being some kind of liberal hypocrite, the reason I'm not asking these questions of the Tories' response is that I already know the answer in that case is no, and no. I feel like I’m going mad. Are there seriously so many people who ostensibly take an interest in politics who aren’t aware of the concept of economic pressure?
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Jan 13, 2024 20:08
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Nenonen posted:They need an external enemy to justify their rule. If you think they were lacking that before you might want to look at a map.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:10
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Gonzo McFee posted:What are they gaining? As far as I can tell they've made themselves targets for every Western Country to slaughter and there's only one road that leads to. Support. The same way that Hamas were deliberately trying to provoke a disproportionate response, because it creates new supporters for them.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:11
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Dabir posted:Support. The same way that Hamas were deliberately trying to provoke a disproportionate response, because it creates new supporters for them. Cool, it worked. They've proven their enemies are far more evil than they are.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:13
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https://www.facebook.com/reel/332735502933740
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Jan 13, 2024 20:13
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| # ? May 24, 2024 02:18 |
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Gonzo McFee posted:Cool, it worked. They've proven their enemies are far more evil than they are. Well... yeah. Of course it worked. The US worked with Israel to write a big manual decades ago about how it works and what you should do instead. I'd suggest you to go read it if you're interested, only I can't remember what it's called. They're just incapable of following it themselves, for a number of reasons, like the Israeli government being a bunch of genocidal fascists.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:24
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