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M_Gargantua posted:
I think this is simultaneously the deepest and nerdiest and possibly most brilliant reference I have ever seen on the Internet, no joke. My hat is off to you, good sir. Ea-Nasir. Perfect.
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Jan 20, 2024 06:28
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:43 |
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M_Gargantua posted:To put it in terms you’ll understand, The thing of that is, Frieren is a well documented historical figure. People are still alive who spent time with her during the quest to kill the demon king, even if most of them are very, very old by now. She's not like King Arthur, even, where there's debate if she even existed. She's more like someone who worked on the Manhattan Project. Sure, most folks wouldn't recognize Richard Feynman at a glance, let alone the members of the project who weren't constantly breaking into locked desks for the fun of it, but if you study the era, you'd be able to recognize people involved. It's just most people don't care enough to do that research.
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Jan 20, 2024 06:30
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"my master said basic magic was more than enough for mages from this era" as she just no-effort uses it to toy with that mage
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Jan 20, 2024 06:34
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Nebrilos posted:Frieren did save the world but that was what, 80 years ago? That's forever ago in human terms. Yeah, old man Denken may now be the only one there to be remotely in the range of the Demon-King-slaying journey (or even Himmel's life), and that's still a long shot. To everyone else it's a legend from their parents. Or in somecases, a fairy tale from their grandparents.
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Jan 20, 2024 06:44
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And all the other mages are throwing around flashy wasteful spells while Fern is easily holding her own with basic magic. She hasn't scored a kill yet and I don't think she will but she'll certainly force a surrender out of someone's mouth when they realize finally that they're out classed.
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Jan 20, 2024 06:45
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Kind of a setup episode today, although the sequence of frieren quietly waiting for the bird by the pool was very good Either way i think there's potential for more episode 9 caliber animation coming up
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Jan 20, 2024 07:20
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chiasaur11 posted:The thing of that is, Frieren is a well documented historical figure. People are still alive who spent time with her during the quest to kill the demon king, even if most of them are very, very old by now. continuing with my idiotic "Sousou no Frieren is a rejection of the end of history following the close of the cold war" train of thought, Frieren is Eduard Shevardnadze. obviously.
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Jan 20, 2024 11:36
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https://twitter.com/fukaikiri/status/1748307826886496549
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Jan 20, 2024 14:22
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Considering the Himmel situation, she 100% does not. Also, there would be absolutely no difference in her behavior if she, by some miracle, knew.
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Jan 20, 2024 14:33
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So the test isn't necessarily intended to be lethal, mages are just assholes.
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Jan 20, 2024 15:05
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chiasaur11 posted:The thing of that is, Frieren is a well documented historical figure. People are still alive who spent time with her during the quest to kill the demon king, even if most of them are very, very old by now. I think you're overstating things a lot. Regardless of how well-documented a person is, this does not equal magic recognition powers on everyone studying their era. For an example, I'm a nerd who reads a lot of history, but while I know who Lafayette is, if someone looking like Lafayette suddenly showed up next to me, there's a 100% chance my comment wouldn't be "Oh hello Lafayette, I thought you were dead" and not even "Oh weird, that guy looks like Lafayette. Must be a reenactor". Instead my reaction would be more along the line of "hey French guy, could you please move a bit, you're blocking the sun, and I'm trying to read here"
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Jan 20, 2024 15:20
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Himmel is Captain America. Frieren is Bucky. Everyone knows who Captain America is. No one other than intelligence remembers Bucky out of Winter Soldier mode, and wouldn't recognize him if he was walking in public regularly, while they would recognize Captain America
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Jan 20, 2024 16:12
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Also probably falls in line with how humans like to only pay attention to their own history and species, humans. And probably pretend that elf and dwarf wasn't there.
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Jan 20, 2024 16:15
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I work in education and the average person would struggle to mention 3 countries that participated in WW2, let alone how many world wars there have been unless they have a passing interest in history, and that was a cataclysmic event. Or they may know Napoleon existed but have no idea how long ago he lived. Unless it has a direct and meaningful impact in their lives people don't remember historical figures or events in more than the broadest of terms, even if they took place within living memory. That's why people not recognizing Frieren or having no idea who Himmel was feels perfectly congruent to me.
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Jan 20, 2024 16:20
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Honestly, I would expect Frieren being an elf to be a way, way bigger deal than shown. Imagine living in a society where there were like, a few dozen immortal blue people and one of them had helped killed Hitler in a daring commando raid. You might not know every detail about blue people, but when you see a blue person you're going be all like, "oh hey, it's one of those weird immortals that wanders around, I wonder if they're maybe the Hitler-killer. That would be cool, I'm a normal person and I'm bored and I'm going to go make myself their problem." e: Like, Kraft would 100% know who Frieren is because he would have lived the last 80 years with people going up to him with variations of "hey, are you Freezon the magus?" Haystack fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 16:22
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It doesn't matter to the story they're trying to tell so they just never get into it. Maybe it'll come up later.
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Jan 20, 2024 16:31
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Lt. Lizard posted:Considering the Himmel situation, she 100% does not. Also, there would be absolutely no difference in her behavior if she, by some miracle, knew. Yeah, we should cut granny Frieren some slack! She's behind the times but she's trying her hardest and she's fudamentally nice enough that it really doesn't matter if she fully gets it or not.
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Jan 20, 2024 16:51
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I feel like people are forgetting that, magic and monsters aside, this has still been a pretty stock Medieval setting, where information travels slowly and gets warped as it goes.
Mordja fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 17:42
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Haystack posted:Honestly, I would expect Frieren being an elf to be a way, way bigger deal than shown. Imagine living in a society where there were like, a few dozen immortal blue people and one of them had helped killed Hitler in a daring commando raid. You might not know every detail about blue people, but when you see a blue person you're going be all like, "oh hey, it's one of those weird immortals that wanders around, I wonder if they're maybe the Hitler-killer. That would be cool, I'm a normal person and I'm bored and I'm going to go make myself their problem." Yeah, as Mordja said, that story about blue people gets maybe three villages down the road until it's hopelessly mangled. Two countries over, it's been distorted into a completely different story. Elfs are now tiny, and red. Frieren is now a man, etc. People often forget how much mass media, even just radio, has changed the world. Some mages maybe using magic to send messages around (is that even a thing, I'm just being generous here) is not a replacement for every family owning a radio. Like, that last bit you wrote could actually happen, but it's equally likely it won't happen. In this story, it didn't happen, and that's fine. Would it be funny if dozens of historians and other weirdos were constantly seeking Kraft out and asking him if he was Frost, the Green Mage? Hell yes, but it doesn't need to happen, Frieren could just occupy a small spot in some obscure historian's work and nobody else cares because Himmel got all the credit.
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Jan 20, 2024 18:18
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Arc Hammer posted:So the test isn't necessarily intended to be lethal, mages are just assholes. Why not both? 
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Jan 20, 2024 18:22
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TwoPair posted:Why not both? Well Denken says that the 1st Rank Mages limit their numbers as much to project the power and privilege of their title as anything else. Let the wannabes kill each other without raising a finger.
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Jan 20, 2024 18:26
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Azran posted:I work in education and the average person would struggle to mention 3 countries that participated in WW2, let alone how many world wars there have been unless they have a passing interest in history, and that was a cataclysmic event. Or they may know Napoleon existed but have no idea how long ago he lived. Unless it has a direct and meaningful impact in their lives people don't remember historical figures or events in more than the broadest of terms, even if they took place within living memory. That's why people not recognizing Frieren or having no idea who Himmel was feels perfectly congruent to me. Himmel and co saved the world 80 years prior to the current events. IRL 80 years ago is 1944. Knowing about Himmel and his party (and what they looked like) would not be unlike knowing the lead generals of the Allies in WW2 or even just the American ones (assuming you're American). There's six and I could post all of their pictures and I doubt most people IRL would even know any of them or even match them up with provided names above a level of random chance. There's a later chapter that does reemphasize this in a comedic way and a picture related to it of the whole party with Frieren looking a lot closer to other fictional elves in anime.
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Jan 21, 2024 01:35
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I would not recognize the hero party that stormed into Demon King Hitler's fortress if they were ringing me out at McD.
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Jan 21, 2024 01:40
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Haystack posted:Honestly, I would expect Frieren being an elf to be a way, way bigger deal than shown. Imagine living in a society where there were like, a few dozen immortal blue people and one of them had helped killed Hitler in a daring commando raid. You might not know every detail about blue people, but when you see a blue person you're going be all like, "oh hey, it's one of those weird immortals that wanders around, I wonder if they're maybe the Hitler-killer. That would be cool, I'm a normal person and I'm bored and I'm going to go make myself their problem." For the sake of the story every character has a unique name, but in the reality of the world we can assume there are other red-haired boy warriors named Stark or purple haired wizard girls named Fern. Also, it only seems like nobles get last names, so there's little to differentiate. It would be rude, if not racist, to just assume any female elf mage named Frieren is the Frieren from the hero's party. Especially since the people in Frieren's world seem more considerate and polite than our own.
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Jan 21, 2024 05:23
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Xelkelvos posted:Himmel and co saved the world 80 years prior to the current events. IRL 80 years ago is 1944. Knowing about Himmel and his party (and what they looked like) would not be unlike knowing the lead generals of the Allies in WW2 or even just the American ones (assuming you're American). There's six and I could post all of their pictures and I doubt most people IRL would even know any of them or even match them up with provided names above a level of random chance. On average, people nowadays are way more educated than in the past. Do you think some random peasants in 900 could give you and accurate visual description of Charlemagne? Well maybe. Apparently his face was on coins and they may have one of those lying around. But I sure don't expect them to know what his fourth in command looked like. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jan 21, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 09:30
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M_Gargantua posted:To put it in terms you’ll understand, This is one of the greatest posts I've ever read. Kwyndig posted:And all the other mages are throwing around flashy wasteful spells while Fern is easily holding her own with basic magic. She hasn't scored a kill yet and I don't think she will but she'll certainly force a surrender out of someone's mouth when they realize finally that they're out classed. The ending of the episode reaffirms this, in between trash talking the lady she's fighting is thinking "There's something REALLY off about this girl and I don't like it one bit..."
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Jan 22, 2024 05:38
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Omnicrom posted:
I’m actually curious what will illicit a bigger “oh poo poo” response: people finding out who Frieren is, or the subsequent realization that Fern is her apprentice.
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Jan 22, 2024 06:03
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denken my beloved
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Jan 23, 2024 04:36
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the uneasiness I think is again, Fern hiding her true mana tank and can probably keep the 'boring' attack and defend style all day when other mages would be conscious of their mana pools.
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Jan 23, 2024 06:09
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I assume they're terrifyingly efficient in comparison to the flashier stuff. Refined and precise and basically bottomless. Frieren wanting to truly flex would probably blow up half a mountain Flamme-style. The simple stuff is more ecologically friendly too.
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Jan 23, 2024 09:20
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GateOfD posted:the uneasiness I think is again, Fern hiding her true mana tank and can probably keep the 'boring' attack and defend style all day when other mages would be conscious of their mana pools. I think this is a lot of it. Fern, like Frieren, keeps her mana output steady at a certain (somewhat low) level so other mages who see her and her mana level assume she's relatively weak but given her rank and presence in the test they assume she must have good control and mastery. But then they see her using these basic spells with that expected level of mastery and her mana doesn't even fluctuate. A normal mage's mana would dip and rebuild or slowly drain if they did what Fern does. But Fern's readings just stay flat all the time. Part of that is her constantly concealing her true mana level, but I also think she's not showing her true level of mastery of these "basic" spells either so they're likely underestimating her on two axes rather than just one.
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Jan 23, 2024 09:49
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It’s like a human running vs a cheetah. Humans can’t run anywhere close to 75 mph, but they absolutely will overtake a cheetah eventually once they run out of energy.
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Jan 23, 2024 17:36
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Tbh i'm not convinced that a spell that fires a literal magic laser beam takes less mana than a spell that throws rocks (admittedly a lot of them, and very fast). But yeah fern has far more mana than she seems to and we know that using defense magic in particular takes a lot of mana. So how casually she's just throwing out tons of zoltraaks and defense spells given how much mana she appears to have is probably making her opponent uneasy
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Jan 23, 2024 17:50
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sharkmafia posted:Tbh i'm not convinced that a spell that fires a literal magic laser beam takes less mana than a spell that throws rocks (admittedly a lot of them, and very fast). But defense magic is explicitly mana expensive so Fern being able to just use it like a cantrip, even with the more efficient barely enough coverage, is really something to take a pause at. ChronoReverse fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jan 23, 2024 |
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Jan 23, 2024 18:47
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The more impressive thing about their shielding techniques is how fast their reaction times are to summon pinpoint deflections.
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Jan 23, 2024 18:50
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sharkmafia posted:Tbh i'm not convinced that a spell that fires a literal magic laser beam takes less mana than a spell that throws rocks (admittedly a lot of them, and very fast). I checked Elden Ring and that's just how it works. On average, one of the most basic spells has the best DPS.
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Jan 23, 2024 19:15
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Wizard cast's GUN, its super effective and lazy.
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Jan 23, 2024 19:18
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cant cook creole bream posted:I checked Elden Ring and that's just how it works. On average, one of the most basic spells has the best DPS. I'm pretty sure I still haven't switched from the first basic not-magic missile spell you find in my time playing a mage build. Maybe I missed something that's obviously better and OP but all the spells I keep finding and trying out just have me thinking "what's the point?" They either barely do more damage or are horribly mana inefficient.
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Jan 23, 2024 19:48
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Super Jay Mann posted:I'm pretty sure I still haven't switched from the first basic not-magic missile spell you find in my time playing a mage build. Maybe I missed something that's obviously better and OP but all the spells I keep finding and trying out just have me thinking "what's the point?" They either barely do more damage or are horribly mana inefficient. Generally speaking in FromSoft games the basic attack spell is and is meant to be the best in terms of "damage per MP spent." In the situation where you can cast the spell at an any as many times as you want, it's always going to be the best. Other spells are going to be for situations like "I really want to delete an enemy out of that group before I aggro the rest of them", "I need to damage multiple enemies at once", or "this one can hit multiple times if the enemy is large enough." Or, or course, the very popular "this boss won't just sit there and let me cast at her." For Frieren it seems to be that basic attack magic that just tosses mana around is very efficient and effective, and the advantage of studying something like water magic that uses a physical element as a medium is that the skill you put all that time into training has uses both in and out of combat, whereas Zoltraak just kills.
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Jan 23, 2024 19:53
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:43 |
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If demons have existed in this world for hundreds of years and humans have been at war with them for at least a hundred years, wouldn't you think that most people would already know what demons are like by now? For us readers, who are outsiders to this fictional world, we need it to be demonstrated what demons are like (ie, utterly amoral killers who use the fact that humans have empathy against them, but don't feel empathy themselves). But for characters who have been living in this world that has demons in it and were probably told all kinds of folktales as children about how demons trick people by acting like people, but they can literally never be trusted, shouldn't they know by now what demons are like? How are demons still tricking people, like those diplomat demons and that child demon? Or the fact that no one notices that the geas placed on Macht is meaningless against a demon. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 23, 2024 21:13
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