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selec posted:The strikes aren’t working, but they’ll continue, I guess.
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Jan 24, 2024 02:55
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This is labeled as the Yemeni Prime Minister, but obviously it's the Houthi Prime Minister. Still it's interesting to hear his talking points, and I gotta say I agree with most or all of what he has to say. https://twitter.com/upholdreality/status/1749948823584018888
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Jan 24, 2024 03:27
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Once again, I am begging you to consider where you are getting your information from. Like when you see a tweet like that, or an account like that, why doesn't it give you pause about your sources of infromation, let alone before you repost it uncritically here? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 04:03
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Discendo Vox posted:Once again, I am begging you to consider where you are getting your information from. Should we trust this guy more or less than an Israeli spokesman? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 24, 2024 04:06
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Discendo Vox posted:Once again, I am begging you to consider where you are getting your information from. Like when you see a tweet like that, or an account like that, why doesn't it give you pause about your sources of infromation, let alone before you repost it uncritically here? It's a video so I didn't vet the account. Are you claiming something about it is inaccurate like the translation or something? I noted the disparity about claiming he was the Yemeni Prime Minister.
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Jan 24, 2024 04:14
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Stringent posted:It's a video so I didn't vet the account. Are you claiming something about it is inaccurate like the translation or something? I noted the disparity about claiming he was the Yemeni Prime Minister. So you didn't vet the account or PressTV, the literal Iranian state-owned foreign-facing propaganda channel that the account is mediating.
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Jan 24, 2024 04:20
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Discendo Vox posted:So you didn't vet the account or PressTV, the literal Iranian state-owned foreign-facing propaganda channel that the account is mediating. I'm not seeing the issue? Would you be ok if it had been a BBC related account posting the video instead? I'm not trying to be obtuse or anything, I just legitimately don't understand the point you're trying to make. Is there something wrong with the video, the translation, or what? What's the issue specifically?
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Jan 24, 2024 04:27
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selec posted:Should we trust this guy more or less than an Israeli spokesman? I'm skeptical of anything that's reported on by a news outlet that makes horrific homophobic videos about how terrible the "LGBTQ propaganda"/"LGBTQ agenda" is: https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/06/24/705849/Muslims-response-to-LGBTQ Of course, you don't have to agree with me on that 
Kalit fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 04:28
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So the answer to the question 'do you have a logical rebuttal to the things he is saying' is 'no', then? You just don't like who is saying it and who is giving him the platform to be heard saying it?
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Jan 24, 2024 04:48
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Unless Kalit and Discendo are trying to claim it's a deepfake or something that does seem to be Abdul Aziz bin Habtour speaking. Do they dispute the translation, maybe? It's a nearly five minute continuous clip so it's hard for me to imagine it's selectively edited or something. It's not opinion or even reportage, it's just a clip of the guy speaking. I don't like or trust eg. Fox News but if they played a five minute uncut Trump speech I wouldn't dispute that it was Trump making the statement or that what he said in the clip wasn't what he really said. If you want direct statements from bin Habtour you're probably going to have to go somewhere like PressTV. I don't see him popping up on MSNBC too frequently.
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Jan 24, 2024 04:49
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Unless Kalit and Discendo are trying to claim it's a deepfake or something that does seem to be Abdul Aziz bin Habtour speaking. Do they dispute the translation, maybe? It's a nearly five minute continuous clip so it's hard for me to imagine it's selectively edited or something. It's not opinion or even reportage, it's just a clip of the guy speaking. TBH, if Breitbart or Newsmax had interviewed a lefty politician I was a fan of, I would probably take a step back and wonder the intention. And probably would not want to give that interview any additional attention. Yes, even if it was rare to find that politician covered on mainstream media. But, hey, maybe I'm just a more cautious person. Kalit fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 05:05
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Unless Kalit and Discendo are trying to claim it's a deepfake or something that does seem to be Abdul Aziz bin Habtour speaking. Do they dispute the translation, maybe? It's a nearly five minute continuous clip so it's hard for me to imagine it's selectively edited or something. It's not opinion or even reportage, it's just a clip of the guy speaking. You can only use Houthi words if they are being antisemitic in this thread. Sorry, that's the rules.
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Jan 24, 2024 05:07
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Kalit posted:TBH, if Breitbart or Newsmax had interviewed a lefty politician I was a fan of, I would probably take a step back and wonder the intention. And probably would not want to give that interview any additional attention. Okay so could you clarify in what ways bin Habtour is being misrepresented or the interview turned towards nefarious ends in a contextless clip of him speaking, uninterrupted? Please keep in mind that the clip's relevance to the discussion here isn't "this is the unalloyed truth" or "he is setting the historical record straight" but instead "forums poster Stringent mostly agrees with what he is saying in the clip". If Newsmax played an uninterrupted clip of Rashida Tlaib speaking about Palestine I'd probably agree with what she was saying, regardless of how the Newsmax staff felt about it or how they wanted to contextualize the clip.
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Jan 24, 2024 05:21
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Raenir Salazar posted:I don't understand this as a response to what you quoted; but I definitely don't think they're "culpable for an active participation in continuing the settler colonial project of Gaza" that seems like nonsense to me. Normal citizens enjoying their day to day life, outside of Gaza have nothing to do with Gaza or with the suffering Palestinians go through and I don't think I saw anything about the rave having anything to do with politics? But maybe I missed this point if it was brought up in the last couple of pages; I only saw discussion as to whether it was a "for peace" event or not. Yes, they absolutely do. The appropriateness of directing violence at people who do not *personally* bear overwhelming force of arms entirely aside, to deny that Israelis making exclusive use of land expropriated within the living memory of the concentration camp inmates next door have anything to do with the suffering of Palestinians--both in terms of immediate day-to-day material reality and the broader settler-colonialist project aimed at their extinction--is breathtakingly out of pocket. If the current occupiers of the land around the strip have nothing to do with Gaza--if they are totally innocent bystanders at a remove from the situation--then why must the Gazans be sequestered from that land? HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 05:24
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Kalit posted:TBH, if Breitbart or Newsmax had interviewed a lefty politician I was a fan of, I would probably take a step back and wonder the intention. And probably would not want to give that interview any additional attention. You don't even have to be hypothetical, I thoroughly enjoyed Bernie's appearance on Joe Rogan even though I'd normally prefer to chew glass than listen to that show. Likewise with Bernie's town halls on Fox.
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Jan 24, 2024 05:31
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Okay so could you clarify in what ways bin Habtour is being misrepresented or the interview turned towards nefarious ends in a contextless clip of him speaking, uninterrupted? Please keep in mind that the clip's relevance to the discussion here isn't "this is the unalloyed truth" or "he is setting the historical record straight" but instead "forums poster Stringent mostly agrees with what he is saying in the clip". I never claimed he's being misrepresented or how it "turned towards nefarious"? I don't know why you're claiming this. But I would guess, if for example Tlaib gave an interview to Newsmax, it wouldn't include much that the staff opposed. It would probably consist primarily of questions that were aimed towards the mediating source's goals. In this example, Newsmax's goal of furthering conservative politics. Stringent posted:You don't even have to be hypothetical, I thoroughly enjoyed Bernie's appearance on Joe Rogan even though I'd normally prefer to chew glass than listen to that show. Likewise with Bernie's town halls on Fox. TBH, I think I listened to Bernie's appearance on Joe Rogan, but hated myself for it. And certainly didn't promote it to anyone in any way.
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Jan 24, 2024 05:37
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Also if you're worried about media organizations being tainted, the NYT, Washington Post, and MSNBC all routinely launder propaganda for a state that supports and instigates genocide (The USA), which I would put at least on par with putting out anti-LGBT material. There is no unbiased media, you have to take each tweet or video in its context.
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Jan 24, 2024 05:47
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Kalit posted:I never claimed he's being misrepresented or how it "turned towards nefarious"? I don't know why you're claiming this. Can you please just tell us your point rather than play these bizarre games? Why was it bad that Stringent posted the clip or that they mostly agree with what's being said? Is Stringent an antisemite, accidentally or otherwise? Are they uncritically accepting a subtextual Houthi or Iranian propaganda message? Are they causing harm by dangerously platforming PressTV on Something Awful? Can you please just explain why it's bad rather than expecting everyone to guess what you're getting at?
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Jan 24, 2024 05:49
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I see an article on foxnews.com titled "US carries out 'self-defense' strike in Yemen against Iran-backed Houthi missiles", so I guess the US strike against Yemen wasn't in self defense, thanks for the pointers on verifying news sources!
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Jan 24, 2024 05:49
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Yes, they absolutely do. The appropriateness of directing violence at people who do not *personally* bear overwhelming force of arms entirely aside, to deny that Israelis making exclusive use of land expropriated within the living memory of the concentration camp inmates next door have anything to do with the suffering of Palestinians--both in terms of immediate day-to-day material reality and the broader settler-colonialist project aimed at their extinction--is breathtakingly out of pocket. Just say you think every Israeli's a legitimate target and you don't believe there's such a thing as civilians.
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Jan 24, 2024 06:19
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Can you please just tell us your point rather than play these bizarre games? Pentecoastal Elites posted:Why was it bad that Stringent posted the clip or that they mostly agree with what's being said? In this specific instance, we can see this plays out with an assumption of being "anti-Western", as Abdulaziz bin Saleh Habtoor inferred that no Western forces assisted Egypt during the Suez Crisis. Even though, as we know, the US (and UN) played a major role with the Soviet Union in the assistance. Pentecoastal Elites posted:Is Stringent an antisemite, accidentally or otherwise? Pentecoastal Elites posted:Are they uncritically accepting a subtextual Houthi or Iranian propaganda message? Pentecoastal Elites posted:Are they causing harm by dangerously platforming PressTV on Something Awful? Pentecoastal Elites posted:Can you please just explain why it's bad rather than expecting everyone to guess what you're getting at? Kalit fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 06:27
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Kalit posted:I'm skeptical of anything that's reported on by a news outlet that makes horrific homophobic videos about how terrible the "LGBTQ propaganda"/"LGBTQ agenda" is: https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/06/24/705849/Muslims-response-to-LGBTQ Speaking as A Gay, this is an intellectually dishonest and exploitative framing of someone posting a non-news video in the thread whose political points they agree with. "Anti-Western Propaganda" or not, the video's not inciting hate against any demographic group, it's just making a historical argument about the actions of the US, and whether or not its specifics are accurate is a perfectly fine topic for the thread to discuss. It's hard for me not to connect this to the pro-Israel side's tendency to exploit the mere possibility of Palestinian homophobia, usually as a dogwhistle for the idea that Muslims are inherently bigoted, as a reason that LGBT people should unconditionally support Israel.
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Jan 24, 2024 06:41
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Personally, watching the West materially aid the genocide of Palestine has made me much less willing to consider 'anti-Western' a bad thing for media to be. In fact, it seems to me that if someone is 'anti-West' on the issue of Palestine, it puts them morally on the right side of history. But I understand if some people don't see it that way.
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Jan 24, 2024 06:47
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Angry Salami posted:Just say you think every Israeli's a legitimate target and you don't believe there's such a thing as civilians. Why would I say this. I am disputing the claim that they are wholly separate and uninvolved from the situation. That is all. I can think someone is--to use a legal analogy--guilty of receipt of stolen goods without baying for the death penalty. There are many more appropriate redresses. And more locally I was motivated to dispute that claim--that anyone not holding a gun has nothing to do with the condition of Gaza--because I think clinging to that precept hopelessly distorts understanding. If someone refuses to engage with or acknowledge the material basis of the conflict, what does that leave them to work with? HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 07:20
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youcallthatatwist posted:Speaking as A Gay, this is an intellectually dishonest and exploitative framing of someone posting a non-news video in the thread whose political points they agree with. "Anti-Western Propaganda" or not, the video's not inciting hate against any demographic group, it's just making a historical argument about the actions of the US, and whether or not its specifics are accurate is a perfectly fine topic for the thread to discuss. It's hard for me not to connect this to the pro-Israel side's tendency to exploit the mere possibility of Palestinian homophobia, usually as a dogwhistle for the idea that Muslims are inherently bigoted, as a reason that LGBT people should unconditionally support Israel. I am not pro-Israel, nor do I think that Muslims are inherently bigoted, and nor do I think that LBGT people should unconditionally support Israel. I gave a specific example of why I don’t trust a news source. Stop making assumptions.
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Jan 24, 2024 07:58
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I can see being skeptical of what the dude is saying, but the initial complaint is about the account that posted the tweet and PressTV despite it being a video we can all just watch. We can attempt to infer why the video was put out and by whom, but as it stands, it's still words coming from a person speaking on behalf of the Houthis.
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Jan 24, 2024 08:07
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Kalit posted:I am not pro-Israel, nor do I think that Muslims are inherently bigoted, and nor do I think that LBGT people should unconditionally support Israel. I wasn't accusing you of any of those things. I was comparing the rhetorical strategies of dismissing queer solidarity with Palestinians because "well they'd just be homophobic to you," and claiming that the veracity of a video of a dude talking must be called into question because "well that source has also made lovely homophobic arguments." It's maybe a drastic comparison, but you can't discount video evidence because you don't like the people who filmed it or posted it. It'd be another story if you'd provided evidence that this source had an actual history of fabricating footage.
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Jan 24, 2024 10:02
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The most important point is that Iran is a major Houthi ally, so you can expect Iranian state television to give their public statements reasonably full and sympathetic coverage. If you just want to know what Ansar Allah are saying (regardless of whether it's true or morally defensible), PressTV is probably one of the best sources out there.
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Jan 24, 2024 12:23
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Kalit posted:Big picture wise, of course not. But it would be nice if people thought more critically about where they get their information from, what's the intention behind the sources, etc. Questioning these things are good, IMO. Blind acceptance is not. No one is asking you to accept anything. If the only thing we're talking about is the actual content of a specific speech, which we are, the person doing the filming is not relevant to the conversation. You could make an argument about the content of the speech, but that wasn't what you were doing. Strange that anyone would have to clarify this but I am assuming good faith. Otherwise this reads like you were trying to piggyback off Discendo Vox for a cheap dunk on someone you disagree with by only looking at the source of a video and completely ignoring its content, and now are scrambling to find some way to dismiss it now that it's obvious what a cheap shot it was. Hopefully, though, this isn't the case.
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Jan 24, 2024 13:25
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Kalit posted:TBH, if Breitbart or Newsmax had interviewed a lefty politician I was a fan of, I would probably take a step back and wonder the intention. And probably would not want to give that interview any additional attention. I don't think this is a reasonable stance to take on media consumption, and it's not a stance that helps you avoid bias. It's no less slanted than when people disregard news they don't like because it's being reported in the "liberal media". If a media organization you don't trust publishes an interview with someone, you should by all means consider why they published it, whether they manipulated the footage, asked leading questions, failed to contextualize things properly, check if the person being interviewed complained about being misrepresented later on, and all the other things you might do with a source you don't trust. What you should absolutely not do is try to "not give that interview additional attention" or in other ways disregard it simply because you don't like the source. When you do this, you're not being media literate, you're enforcing an echo chamber that only permits certain approved voices. That's a problem in general, but especially in cases like this. Western mainstream media is openly hostile to most of the people opposed to Israel (and I would expect vice versa). When you decide that people must disregard non-Western state media even when you can't point to evidence of tampering, you're essentially just completely preventing the words of the interviewed person from reaching you. You said you think "blind acceptance" is bad. Blind rejection isn't better.
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Jan 24, 2024 18:45
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Yeah this is a really weird track DV and Kalit are taking. For a different example, I wouldn't trust RT for poo poo about world affairs or anything but if they aired a speech or interview with Lukashenko that the Western media didn't think was notable, what reason would I have to question the translation? Even if I believe a source is so biased as to not believe any of their reporting of events, why would I think they're mistranslating someone they're so obviously aligned with? I wouldn't trust VoA to report about the middle east but if they published a translation of a speech by Antony Blinken, what reason would there be for one to doubt it?
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Jan 24, 2024 19:04
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Fine, I retract my statement about questioning what was stated by the “Prime Minister” of Yemen himself in that interview. But presstv is still a garbage tier company in my mind, along the same lines as Breitbart/Newsmax
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Jan 24, 2024 19:22
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Regarding what the PM of (Houthi) Yemen said in the interview, I can't help but notice how his argumentation is exactly the opposite of how western polticians talk about any large problem, most notably climate change. He's saying that people who argue that the US and aligned countries have the muscle to force their will on countries like Yemen, but if everyone thinks that way and give up preemptively, no one will ever be liberated. Esran fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 19:58
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wow this thread is really easy to derail. you guys need a strong ik or something (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 24, 2024 20:01
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Mia Wasikowska posted:wow this thread is really easy to derail. you guys need a strong ik or something Competent moderators would help too e2a: To be more clear, competent moderator LEADERSHIP. There's too much moderation for the sake of moderation, and this moderation does nothing to help the thread and is solely there to feed the ego of the head moderator. I wish they'd find another hobby or something and simply gently caress off. Koos is forum cancer personified. And I don't think I've ever seen anyone defend Koos either. That should speak volumes in itself. I've only seen people risk being probated by speaking out. Koos won't have a current open thread to discuss their terrible moderator decisions, so gently caress it. I'll eat yet another of their pissbaby probes and say my piece here. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) fuctifino fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 20:03
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fuctifino posted:Competent moderators would help too functional moderation. Not "you have violated rule 3.A.VII" (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 24, 2024 20:15
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As I said, please PM me if you have feedback regarding moderation of this thread or D&D in general, as the thread itself is for discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict.
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Jan 24, 2024 20:36
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Koos Group posted:As I said, please PM me if you have feedback regarding moderation of this thread or D&D in general, as the thread itself is for discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict. PMs haven't solved anything, except waste the time of the people sending them to you and feeding yet more of your shallow ego. This stuff needs to be talked about now, because your bullshit has gone on for long enough. Too many good posters have been driven away by your pettiness. e2a: I stopped even reading your PM replies to me because I didn't want you to waste any more of my time, nor did I want to feed your bureaucratic ego. Read the room. Read the forum. People want you to gently caress off.  
fuctifino fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 20:37
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Koos Group posted:As I said, please PM me if you have feedback regarding moderation of this thread or D&D in general, as the thread itself is for discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict. Either start publishing your PMs or this is just a way to avoid accountability.
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Jan 24, 2024 20:38
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Koos Group posted:As I said, please PM me if you have feedback regarding moderation of this thread or D&D in general, as the thread itself is for discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict. Keeping all discussion of moderations and rules private is terrible for a community.
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