|
Wrong thread, buddy.
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 18:31 |
|
|
Nebrilos posted:If demons have existed in this world for hundreds of years and humans have been at war with them for at least a hundred years, wouldn't you think that most people would already know what demons are like by now? For us readers, who are outsiders to this fictional world, we need it to be demonstrated what demons are like (ie, utterly amoral killers who use the fact that humans have empathy against them, but don't feel empathy themselves). But for characters who have been living in this world that has demons in it and were probably told all kinds of folktales as children about how demons trick people by acting like people, but they can literally never be trusted, shouldn't they know by now what demons are like? How are demons still tricking people, like those diplomat demons and that child demon?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:39
|
|
|
Most people who have been close enough to a demon to listen to its lies are now dead. Thus, most of the really-accurate information on demons is second-hand.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:42
|
|
|
humans are emotional and most generally want to avoid conflict. So when demons throw some bait at the right people, they go for it. But they know a decent amount won't fall for it, and just go for outright traditional conquest and war, its just another tool. The outskirt villages are prime targets for espionage type demons.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:42
|
|
|
Humans want to ascribe human qualities to things. They see a thing that looks like them, talks like them, and acts like them so they go "ah, this thing must also think like me then too"
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:46
|
|
|
We also love the trope of "I'm the only one who can see the good (or whatever contrary to popular belief flavor) in this" when here it's exactly what the demons prey on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:51
|
|
|
Nebrilos posted:If demons have existed in this world for hundreds of years and humans have been at war with them for at least a hundred years, wouldn't you think that most people would already know what demons are like by now? For us readers, who are outsiders to this fictional world, we need it to be demonstrated what demons are like (ie, utterly amoral killers who use the fact that humans have empathy against them, but don't feel empathy themselves). But for characters who have been living in this world that has demons in it and were probably told all kinds of folktales as children about how demons trick people by acting like people, but they can literally never be trusted, shouldn't they know by now what demons are like? How are demons still tricking people, like those diplomat demons and that child demon? Or the fact that no one notices that the geas placed on Macht is meaningless against a demon. Oh man the frieren manga thread loves arguing endlessly about demons, so please do bring this up there. especially if you're going to mention a manga-only character
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:53
|
|
|
ChronoReverse posted:We also love the trope of "I'm the only one who can see the good (or whatever contrary to popular belief flavor) in this" when here it's exactly what the demons prey on. All these folktales tell me that the stripper doesn't love me, but now that i'm here that doesn't seem right, they seem so genuine!
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:57
|
|
|
it is pretty interesting that the modern era of academic mages uses elemental spells. and the girl Fern is fighting that says their most 'battle experienced mages' uses the magical blast type that is the "old system" Like the throwing rocks, turning leaves into needles, and water/ice spells look nice...but man, I imagine those spells would do poo poo to demons and they would just laugh it off. Its all so very anti-human mindset spells with the assumption that you be fighting other humans rather than demons in a much more peaceful age. (even though there still are demon attacks all the time in the cities on the frontier)
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:59
|
|
|
Super Jay Mann posted:I'm pretty sure I still haven't switched from the first basic not-magic missile spell you find in my time playing a mage build. Maybe I missed something that's obviously better and OP but all the spells I keep finding and trying out just have me thinking "what's the point?" They either barely do more damage or are horribly mana inefficient. Ironically, there was a rock throwing skill which felt ever so slightly better. But I think that needed special equipment. But honestly that magic system felt kind of bad in the way you described. Exploring an obscure path leading to a boss only to find a spell which was objectively worse than the starting one felt like bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 22:02
|
|
|
cant cook creole bream posted:Ironically, there was a rock throwing skill which felt ever so slightly better. But I think that needed special equipment. stone of gurranq is arguably one of the best spells in the game yeah I used it on my dex/faith melee build as a 'thing to throw at rear end in a top hat imps hanging on the wall/other miscellaneous purposes' spell. definitely more 'low level/workmanlike' than 'super flashy' though sharkmafia fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 23, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 22:05
|
|
|
If elemental spells only work by imbuing the element with mana (like Kanne's water magic) then that just adds an extra layer to casting a spell when you could just zap people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 22:10
|
|
|
Have there been indications of some kind of magic academy in the magic city where people go to learn or does everyone just go the apprentice/self taught route
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 22:19
|
|
|
Kanne and Lawine are from a magic academy, though I think it's in a different city. But besides that Frieren mentioned there are ~1400 apprentice mages registered to the magic organization so presumably regular mages take multiple apprentices?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 22:23
|
|
|
GateOfD posted:it is pretty interesting that the modern era of academic mages uses elemental spells. DeadFatDuckFat posted:Have there been indications of some kind of magic academy in the magic city where people go to learn or does everyone just go the apprentice/self taught route worldbuilding in frieren is very slow and sparse and very "show, don't tell" (which is good) but yeah, it kinda suggests that most mages go through academies (at least nowadays) and fern's kinda the oddball for studying under a master and having limited contact with broader magical society. ive not quite squared (or missed) how she got her level 3 qual though--hasn't she basically just been chilling at heiter's and studying until setting off with frieren? i guess maybe in the timeskip between frieren arriving at heiter's and leaving with fern maybe she dropped down to the local magic city as a teenager and said "yo, exam me"
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 22:35
|
|
|
Super Jay Mann posted:I'm pretty sure I still haven't switched from the first basic not-magic missile spell you find in my time playing a mage build. Maybe I missed something that's obviously better and OP but all the spells I keep finding and trying out just have me thinking "what's the point?" They either barely do more damage or are horribly mana inefficient.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 22:50
|
|
|
Qtotonibudinibudet posted:i guess maybe in the timeskip between frieren arriving at heiter's and leaving with fern maybe she dropped down to the local magic city as a teenager and said "yo, exam me"   I'd say she got it in the time between Heiter's death and their actual departure, since Heiter's house is close to that city and he probably got buried there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 23:23
|
|
|
Just casually spending 4 months to pass the BAR exam while Frieren is lost in a good book.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 23:28
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:i used the basic spell because it had the shortest cast time Swift Glintstone Shard has a shorter cast time than Glintstone Pebble, and can be cast while moving.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 00:21
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:If elemental spells only work by imbuing the element with mana (like Kanne's water magic) then that just adds an extra layer to casting a spell when you could just zap people. The other side of it though is that it use utility outside of just blasting people. Essentially a tradeoff between specific purpose (murdering thing) and more broad use. In a relatively more peaceful time, it's not as necessary to get really good at a spell meant primarily to blast demons when one could get better at moving water or rocks or other stuff
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 01:02
|
|
|
Xelkelvos posted:The other side of it though is that it use utility outside of just blasting people. Essentially a tradeoff between specific purpose (murdering thing) and more broad use. In a relatively more peaceful time, it's not as necessary to get really good at a spell meant primarily to blast demons when one could get better at moving water or rocks or other stuff Yup, and you gotta figure most other mages don't have the time to gently caress around and find that specific spell for pulling a dude out of mud. Water user can just manipulate the mud to throw him to safety! Everybody else is trying to master a skill tree while Frieren is just scattershot pulling spells from all of 'em because she doesn't have a job and can play games forever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 02:34
|
|
|
Qtotonibudinibudet posted:ive not quite squared (or missed) how she got her level 3 qual though--hasn't she basically just been chilling at heiter's and studying until setting off with frieren? she speed ran it because it was the only/soonest exam happening before the 1st class exam scheduled for a few months after they arrived, at least i'm pretty sure thats what happened in the episode fake edit: yeah you need at least 5th class to take the 1st class exam. the old man sees frieren boomer necklace and she just gets to take the 1st class exam. fern gets 3rd class because it had the soonest testing date (9:30 in ep 18), then (10:30) frieren says lets train for the exam in 2 months
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 05:29
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:i used the basic spell because it had the shortest cast time Fern? Is that you?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 05:33
|
|
|
Now that the whole Demon King thing is sorted out I'd expect a shift to less efficient but much cooler looking magic. You want to impress people while getting a prestigious rank.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 06:21
|
|
|
Plus basic offensive magic doesn't have any level of restraint, hits with it tear flesh off or outright kill the target depending on your aim. Flashier elemental magic can probably be dialed down to nonlethal settings, merely bruising targets. Of course Frieren is like why get in a fight if you don't want to kill your opponent, there's always talking or waiting then out. While Fern is trying the controversial approach of talking and fighting. I'm sure Frieren will fight though, the other team is the aggressors and the easiest way to knock a team out of the running is to kill one of its members.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 06:34
|
|
|
Yeah, there's a lot to be said for "magic that has uses other than killing people." You can even see it here! Most of the mages whose magic we've seen in this exam have specializations that have broader utility beyond combat, like water manipulation, ice manipulation, and the like. Then we have mages like Ubel and Wirbel, who have specialized even harder in killing people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 06:48
|
|
|
I'm not sure how I feel about in order for Fern to progress, Ubel has to survive. I'm sure that'll come back to bite somebody in the rear end, even if it's not our two mages.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 06:54
|
|
|
Kwyndig posted:I'm not sure how I feel about in order for Fern to progress, Ubel has to survive. I'm sure that'll come back to bite somebody in the rear end, even if it's not our two mages. Well, whatchagonna do, kill her for being kind of sketchy and evil, probably? Nobody here has actually seen her do anything really bad.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 06:57
|
|
|
magic that makes you stop fighting and instead start squeeing over cute things
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 09:04
|
|
|
Kwyndig posted:I'm not sure how I feel about in order for Fern to progress, Ubel has to survive. I'm sure that'll come back to bite somebody in the rear end, even if it's not our two mages. This is only stage 1 of the exam right? I’m sure the later stages won’t be team based (tournament arc here we come!) After all we’ll have to find some way to shed all these test takers who don’t appear in the OP or otherwise have “generic background character” designs.”
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 09:19
|
|
|
If this is only stage one of the exam can I assume that we're gonna be on this track for the rest of the cour?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 12:59
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:If this is only stage one of the exam can I assume that we're gonna be on this track for the rest of the cour? There's still another 9 episodes left to go so I wouldn't assume that
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 13:09
|
|
|
Spookydonut posted:magic that makes you stop fighting and instead start squeeing over cute things This is how they beat the Demon King for reals.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 15:57
|
|
|
GloomMouse posted:Now that the whole Demon King thing is sorted out I'd expect a shift to less efficient but much cooler looking magic. You want to impress people while getting a prestigious rank. A reminder that Frieren's current fighting style really only became possible in the last generation of humanity, as it took decades after the Demon War to understand Zoltraak and to develop rudimentary flying magic. In the war she fought much, much differently. Her current fighting style is the most modern magical abilities. It's her mindset and approach that are older. Even the combat monsters of this age are more hunters. They respond to conflict, they look for demons and monsters. It's no longer the heart of the forever war, when everything was burning and any moment could be your last. That's about the only thing that gives Fern and Frieren an edge.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 18:07
|
|
|
Frieren seems to go whole hog into whatever style seems the best at the time so she doesn't have to think about it on top of limiting her power level, and just practices it exclusively so that she gets real good at it
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 20:56
|
|
|
Why waste time on learning new combat spells when you could be learning one that helps you find lost sewing needles instead? (She doesn't sew.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 22:12
|
|
|
Mordja posted:Why waste time on learning new combat spells when you could be learning one that helps you find lost sewing needles instead? (She doesn't sew.) Calling it now, next test is finding a sewing needle in a giant haystack (the haystack is a mimic).
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 22:41
|
|
|
Y’all talking about the natural/elemental magic being inefficient is interesting. I was assuming that imbuing something physical with magic and manipulating that magic would be a shortcut and more mana efficient than giving pure mana shape and form like zoltraak.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2024 00:15
|
|
|
Tabletops posted:Y’all talking about the natural/elemental magic being inefficient is interesting. I was assuming that imbuing something physical with magic and manipulating that magic would be a shortcut and more mana efficient than giving pure mana shape and form like zoltraak. I don't think we have any confirmation on that either way, so i guess we'll see
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2024 00:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 18:31 |
|
|
From the way Kanne and Lawine were talking it takes time to imbue things with enough mana to be effective, though that could be because water is so heavy, I dunno.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2024 00:37
|
|