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Grip it and rip it posted:Its wild to see someone saddle up and repeatedly post this kind if dumb poo poo over and over. You are completely disingenuous with your complaints about the Houthi. You're a racist and an Islamaphobe. You don't give a gently caress about civilian casualities on any side, you just want to see your side winning. You're a sports fan politician, you've no empathy for anyone.
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Jan 27, 2024 15:34
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I would probably argue if pressed that the Houthis (as they currently exist) are a product of the unrelenting hostility towards them by the Saudis and the West. Assassinations, air campaigns, a brutal civil war - these do not turn a loose conglomerate of muslim (both moderate and extreme) tribes and communities into nice people. if you want to empower strongmen you bomb the poo poo out of them and weaken the social infrastructure of their country until the people there have no option but to support the guys in pickup trucks with machine guns it takes years and years of upward mobility, improving conditions, safety and security, before strong men become too fat and lazy to fight and start ceding control to civilian organizations
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Jan 27, 2024 16:12
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It is interesting how our concerned American soldier is so deeply offended by Islamophobia only whenever someone happens to paraphrase someone else and never seems to have a problem with the person bringing up the troupes themselves or advocating for bombing them. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 27, 2024 16:18
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celadon posted:Palestinians are valued so little by the west that a single purely hypothetical nonpalestinian death weighs far more heavily than hundreds of actual daily Palestinian deaths. If airstrikes stopped the gaza war at the cost of the life of single dog aboard a cargo ship, the Houthis would be attacked for their barbarism and bloodlust. The dogs story would get turned into a made for tv movie. Palestinian orphans would be shown pictures of the dog and asked to condemn the Houthis. Cargo ships aren't actually usually crewed by dogs, but people. Typically from the "global south", like these 22 Indian crew members on a tanker they managed to hit that's now burning: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/26/middleeast/oil-tanker-fire-houthi-missile-attack-gulf-aden-intl/index.html Though tbh at this point I don't see any reason to continue participating in this discussion because anything can be justified under this kind of thinking.
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Jan 27, 2024 17:02
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They forgot to enter the "INDIAN_SHIP_BTW!" cheatcode in the transponder
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Jan 27, 2024 17:17
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The pairing of this smug “you are the real racist actually” right alongside the use of words like “terrorist” “brutal” and “random” used only to refer to the Houthis actions in the Red Sea which have killed zero people compared to the complete lack of passion when describing actions of the US, KSA, UAE, and Israel is sure interesting.
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Jan 27, 2024 17:18
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Neurolimal posted:It seems Yemen is punching several divisions above its weight class. Sure but that doesn't mean they are effective or have any effect on the Gaza war.
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Jan 27, 2024 17:30
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mobby_6kl posted:Ok I see where the disagreement is coming from. Looks like no one was injured here, did you mean to link to a different article where 22 people, one tenth of one day of Palestinian casualties, were killed by a Houthi attack?
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Jan 27, 2024 17:43
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Dandywalken posted:They forgot to enter the "INDIAN_SHIP_BTW!" cheatcode in the transponder I mean, yeah that seems pretty effective at not getting attacked so far. Endorsed by the Houthis, even. Probably wont be as reliable the moment an Israel-bound ship pulls that stunt, but for now it seems like a good way to go "hey, I'm not supporting the genocide."
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Jan 27, 2024 18:58
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Grip it and rip it posted:The Houthis are not an organization you should cheerlead and definitely wouldn't want to live under. Its not because they're "undulating savages" (you sound like a racist moron by the way) but because they are responsible for a wide range of crimes against humanity within the territories they control. Did you read any of the UN reports? I'd be happy to link a couple for you if you cannot find them. Maybe if you want to call someone a moron you should learn how to look up words you don't recognize: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ululate Ideally it would help to recognize when someone is parodying your position as well, in this case by calling back to racist tropes that were used to justify the hatred and oppression of basically every non-western group going back to the origin of the term "barbarians" which is often held to be an onomatopoeia of a language the Greeks didn't understand Nothing anyone has said gives even the slightest indication that they would want to live under the Houthis, but the bombings are in response to the shipping, so the civilian deaths you are laying at their feet are really just more evidence that the decision making process for who the US will wage war on has virtually no consideration for human rights
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Jan 27, 2024 19:20
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BougieBitch posted:Maybe if you want to call someone a moron you should learn how to look up words you don't recognize: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ululate I haven't called anyone savages in this thread? It seems like the only people using racists tropes are people who are openly ignoring violence against people from the middle east because its suites their rhetorical position. It's bizarre and inappropriate. But it's obvious that we're at an impasse on the topic, so I'm happy to drop it.
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Jan 27, 2024 19:42
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Grip it and rip it posted:I haven't called anyone savages in this thread? It seems like the only people using racists tropes are people who are openly ignoring violence against people from the middle east because its suites their rhetorical position. It's bizarre and inappropriate. You have provided nothing except calm bibi'ing
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Jan 27, 2024 19:46
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Ankara is in the Middle East, yeah? The US approved the sale of a bunch of F-16s to Turkey yesterday, in response to approving Sweden for NATO. Surprisingly I didn't really see much news coverage of it, or at least not front page. https://www.ft.com/content/6835147e-fb65-4ca6-9e5d-2dcb808a84d3 I'm also amazed that 40 F-16s is a $23bn deal, even with maintenance contracts & etc included.
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Jan 27, 2024 20:13
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Saladman posted:Ankara is in the Middle East, yeah? The US approved the sale of a bunch of F-16s to Turkey yesterday, in response to approving Sweden for NATO. Surprisingly I didn't really see much news coverage of it, or at least not front page. They used to be $10 billion, but Erdogan went for the season pass and preorder cosmetics.
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Jan 27, 2024 20:18
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Dandywalken posted:They forgot to enter the "INDIAN_SHIP_BTW!" cheatcode in the transponder I don't think that would help, India (or at least Hindutva India / Modi supporters) has the reputation of being massively pro-Israel https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/status/1710882299670389050 https://twitter.com/RealDanSadan/status/1715178533234905324 Flavahbeast fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 20:42
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Yeah one of the things that weirded me out after 7th October was the sheer number of Indian voices on social media who piped up lusting for Palestinian blood
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Jan 27, 2024 23:29
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There have been constant pogroms and lynchings of Muslims in India since the partition, it's just not covered much, even though the BJP I think is the first government in a while to go out of it's way to wink at it in the same way that Likud does about lynchings in the West Bank, it's unfortunately not that surprising. I'm only really aware of it because I have a bunch of Indian Muslim in-laws.
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Jan 27, 2024 23:50
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Saladman posted:Ankara is in the Middle East, yeah? The US approved the sale of a bunch of F-16s to Turkey yesterday, in response to approving Sweden for NATO. Surprisingly I didn't really see much news coverage of it, or at least not front page. it's funny that a day AFTER they finally finished wringing any political leverage out of Ankara about these F16s they go and sell a whack of F35s to Greece, plus 'donate' a bunch of weaponry to them
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Jan 28, 2024 01:13
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adebisi lives posted:If that were true the US wouldn't be bombing them. The US is bombing them because they're disrupting local shipping. Because the US is invested in local shipping, much more than Yemeni civilian life, it would be doing this even there were no Israel at all. It's possible that the Houthis are making a difference along the lines of "Houthis make shipping harder for first-world countries, first-world countries blame Israel for provoking the Houthis, first-world countries exert more pressure on Israel to do less genocide." I don't believe it, because it requires these first-world states to take the Houthis seriously when they say the piracy stops when the genocide stops, but it has an obvious logic to it. It is not correct that America bombing Yemen is by itself an indicator that the Houthis are effectively limiting or impeding Israel. SMEGMA_MAIL posted:...never seems to have a problem with the person bringing up the troupes themselves or advocating for bombing them. We've all heard this "tropes" language over and over again with Israel. If you say Israel operates on a creed of Jewish supremacy, or has a powerful lobby throughout the US, you can't say that, it's tropes! quote:[Ilhan Omar faced widespread condemnation for suggesting the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac) was buying influence for pro-Israel policies. In that case, it's the final refuge of idealogues unwilling to say "that's not true" or even "whether true or not, it's irrelevant." It's smearing accurate, relevant statements as racist-adjacent because a racist might believe something like them even if they weren't true and relevant. In this case I'm not accusing anyone of bad faith but I think talking about "tropes" is unproductive. When someone's talking about a state it's easy to tell whether they're talking about the documented activity of that state or some bullshit they made up out of racist ideology. The "tropes" criticism unhelpfully ambiguates between the two. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 15:24
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Civilized Fishbot posted:The US is bombing them because they're disrupting local shipping. Because the US is invested in local shipping, much more than Yemeni civilian life, it would be doing this even there were no Israel at all. Yeah. When the attacks on shipping started I predicted it wouldn't change the stance of any nation towards the war. So far as I know that holds true. Perhaps Israel sees a bit more pressure from it's allies. But since the bombing campaign and civilian death on a large scale continues, what little pressure there is doesn't seem to matter yet. I don't think the Houthis have contributed in any material way to the war in Gaza.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:42
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Count Roland posted:Yeah. When the attacks on shipping started I predicted it wouldn't change the stance of any nation towards the war. So far as I know that holds true. Perhaps Israel sees a bit more pressure from it's allies. But since the bombing campaign and civilian death on a large scale continues, what little pressure there is doesn't seem to matter yet. I don't think the Houthis have contributed in any material way to the war in Gaza. I think we're a long ways from anyone pressuring Israel as a result of the shipping attacks. No major power is at all interested in setting the precent that a small nation can disrupt international trade for whatever reason. However, just that reason may be.
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Jan 28, 2024 16:03
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A US base in Jordan was attacked by drones and 3 US soldiers were killed and dozens injured. So things are definitely going in the wrong direction. https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-01-28-24/index.html
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Jan 28, 2024 18:16
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Saladman posted:Ankara is in the Middle East, yeah? The US approved the sale of a bunch of F-16s to Turkey yesterday, in response to approving Sweden for NATO. Surprisingly I didn't really see much news coverage of it, or at least not front page. It includes upgrades upgrades for another 80 F-16s they already have and a shitload of armaments: https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/turkiye-f-16-aircraft-acquisition-and-modernization And what I'm sure is not a coincidence, Greece got approved for 40 F-32s at the same time lol: https://archive.ph/OUNUx#selection-4851.0-4851.205 A bit upset they're getting 80 Bradleys for free thown in instead of Ukraine from excess inventory which suddently appeared somehow 
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Jan 28, 2024 18:24
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Charliegrs posted:A US base in Jordan was attacked by drones and 3 US soldiers were killed and dozens injured. So things are definitely going in the wrong direction. Also Biden said "We will respond to this how and when we want (sic)" which is the usual answer before things randomly start exploding.
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Jan 28, 2024 18:24
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I wonder if Biden is saying the attacked base in Jordan, in order to justify its presence, as it'd obviously be there on invitation from the Jordanian govt- but if it's in Syria, they lack the same legitimacy and the target could be considered far more legitimate
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Jan 28, 2024 19:00
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Bohemian Nights posted:I wonder if Biden is saying the attacked base in Jordan, in order to justify its presence, as it'd obviously be there on invitation from the Jordanian govt- but if it's in Syria, they lack the same legitimacy and the target could be considered far more legitimate Is anyone claiming the base attacked was in Syria? The base they're claiming was attacked is inside Jordan on Google Maps (albeit less than 1km from the Syrian border), so if they're lying it means a different base was attacked. Not impossible but I wouldn't assume it unless someone's actually disputing the details.
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Jan 28, 2024 19:36
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Reveilled posted:Is anyone claiming the base attacked was in Syria? The base they're claiming was attacked is inside Jordan on Google Maps (albeit less than 1km from the Syrian border), so if they're lying it means a different base was attacked. Not impossible but I wouldn't assume it unless someone's actually disputing the details. https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/4819096-jordan-says-attack-targeting-american-soldiers-was-not-its-soil I don't know anything about the site linked, but it was the first English speaking link I found- I read about it on non-english news Apparently it comes from Muhannad al Mubaidin, minister of government communications in Jordan
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Jan 28, 2024 19:42
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Bohemian Nights posted:https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/4819096-jordan-says-attack-targeting-american-soldiers-was-not-its-soil What reason would the US have to not simply announce the attack was on Al-Tanf? The US acknowledged an attack on that base as recently as mid October so it's not like there's some sort of cone of silence around its continued existence. Just seems like an odd time to start lying about something like that. E: it would also be strange for Jordan to release a conflicting view of the attack so 
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Jan 28, 2024 19:49
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Bohemian Nights posted:I wonder if Biden is saying the attacked base in Jordan, in order to justify its presence, as it'd obviously be there on invitation from the Jordanian govt- but if it's in Syria, they lack the same legitimacy and the target could be considered far more legitimate Or hear me out. The base that was attacked was the one in Jordan. There's been no indication at all so far that the base was anywhere else like Syria. The attackers probably launched the drones from Syria, but I don't think it really matters all that much where the US troops that got killed are located regardless of the legality of where they are based. Plus everyone involved (and not involved) has cameras now. It would be pretty insane to lie about which base got hit when you know any civilians in the area could have filmed the attack and it would be easy as hell to tell where it actually was. God so many conspiracy poisoned minds out there. Edit: This CNN article says it was the "Tower 22" base in Jordan. Unless you think CNN is in on the conspiracy too. Charliegrs fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 19:49
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Bohemian Nights posted:https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/4819096-jordan-says-attack-targeting-american-soldiers-was-not-its-soil Interesting! It seems like a foolish thing to lie about, or at least a silly thing to lie about without getting Jordan on board for the lie. Maybe they're counting on their own media ignoring Jordanian spokespeople over US Government voices? Unless their operations in Al Tanf are coordinated from the Jordanian base (does Jordan give permission for that?) and they got confused about which base was attacked in reporting.
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Jan 28, 2024 19:52
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Charliegrs posted:Or hear me out. The base that was attacked was the one in Jordan. There's been no indication at all so far that the base was anywhere else like Syria. The attackers probably launched the drones from Syria, but I don't think it really matters all that much where the US troops that got killed are located regardless of the legality of where they are based. Plus everyone involved (and not involved) has cameras now. It would be pretty insane to lie about which base got hit when you know any civilians in the area could have filmed the attack and it would be easy as hell to tell where it actually was. It could be a miscommunication or misunderstanding, but why would a Jordan govt official say the attack occurred within Syria if it didn't? Jordan has friendly relations to the US and no reason to make false claims. I don't really think it's very conspiracy minded to wonder why there's conflicting claims, or if some degree of spin is being attempted here
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Jan 28, 2024 19:56
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Incompetence and confusion are both very common It also looks like "Tower 22" is within spitting distance of Al Tanf along the same road and Al Tanf got hit with a similar attack in October. Easy mistake to make. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 21:18
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Bohemian Nights posted:It could be a miscommunication or misunderstanding, but why would a Jordan govt official say the attack occurred within Syria if it didn't? Jordan has friendly relations to the US and no reason to make false claims. I don't really think it's very conspiracy minded to wonder why there's conflicting claims, or if some degree of spin is being attempted here The article says he thought it was targeting Al Tanf, and seems to imply the Jordanian base was hit by mistake.
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Jan 28, 2024 21:31
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adebisi lives posted:If that were true the US wouldn't be bombing them. And your basis for this assertion is what, exactly.
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Jan 28, 2024 21:52
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Bohemian Nights posted:I wonder if Biden is saying the attacked base in Jordan, in order to justify its presence, as it'd obviously be there on invitation from the Jordanian govt- but if it's in Syria, they lack the same legitimacy and the target could be considered far more legitimate considering that biden used an attack on the al-tanf garrison back in 2022 as justification to airstrike targets in syria supposedly linked to the iranian revolutionary guard, i don't think he gives much thought to its legitimacy
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Jan 28, 2024 21:58
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BBC reporting the the Jordanian claims that the attack happened on Syrian soil. e: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68122706 A motivation for Jordan to lie is that if the attack didn't happen on their soil then they don't need to react. Any attack on their soil though might require a response. I don't know if the US has motivation to lie. Count Roland fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 22:40
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Count Roland posted:I don't know if the US has motivation to lie. Always assume we do
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Jan 28, 2024 23:34
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:And your basis for this assertion is what, exactly. The Biden administration has demonstrated it is willing to let a regional conflict spin out of control rather than condemn Israel and cease aiding the genocide. The Houthis are enacting a blockade to combat the genocide and the US bombing of Yemen is an escalation to the conflict where Biden is doubling down on support of Israel. I'm not taking it for granted that Biden would be willing to indefinitely bomb Yemen unless the blockade is threatening Israel's ability to keep murdering Arabs. The democrats would rather get swept out by the republicans by destabilizing west Asia than even talk about making aide to Israel conditional!
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Jan 29, 2024 02:25
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adebisi lives posted:The Biden administration has demonstrated it is willing to let a regional conflict spin out of control rather than condemn Israel and cease aiding the genocide. The Houthis are enacting a blockade to combat the genocide and the US bombing of Yemen is an escalation to the conflict where Biden is doubling down on support of Israel. I'm not taking it for granted that Biden would be willing to indefinitely bomb Yemen unless the blockade is threatening Israel's ability to keep murdering Arabs.
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Jan 29, 2024 05:17
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:The connection between the houthis and what is happening in Gaza appears to exist almost exclusively in the minds of the houthis, and in the minds of people thousands of miles away on the internet, so far as I can tell. Your insight into the region is profound.
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Jan 29, 2024 05:54
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