|
Who the gently caress are you going to send to arrest Ubel who is not, themselves, a first-class mage?
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 19:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:09 |
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:Who the gently caress are you going to send to arrest Ubel who is not, themselves, a first-class mage? Kraft?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 19:47
|
|
|
Yeah, top-tier warriors like Eisen, Himmel, Kraft and Stark (If he gathered his courage and confidence) could probably handle a first-class mage, but it's not like there is a lot of warriors of that caliber hanging around either.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 19:53
|
|
|
GateOfD posted:standard battalion armies probably just had a squad of Class V and Class IV mages that spam volleys of small fireball spells together that aren't good enough for personal 1v1 combat like Class III and above that can take on elite mobs by themselves Ahh, The Malazan route to grim warfare.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 19:58
|
|
|
Brutal Garcon posted:Do you think this time period's relative lack of mages has anything to do with the lethality of their exams? I think the lethality of the first-class exam depends heavily on who's giving it. Genau has created an exam where the main determining factor (for everyone but frieren) as to whether you actually complete it conventionally is luck. Some test-takers get lucky and both find one and have the tools to catch it, and some don't. The stille is very small, absurdly fast, and can't be tracked by mana, so there's no obvious way to ensure an encounter with one. It's arbitrary, which means that the best way of winning consistently is to not focus on catching the stille, but on getting others' stilles. If you don't get lucky, then you need to attack someone who does, and either coerce them into giving you theirs or just kill them and take it. Clearly, what genau values in a first-class mage is power and willingness to use violence. Sense, on the other hand, seems to disapprove of this kind of test. It's possible whatever test she'd have designed wouldn't have been so lethal. sharkmafia fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jan 29, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 20:24
|
|
|
Lt. Lizard posted:Yeah, top-tier warriors like Eisen, Himmel, Kraft and Stark (If he gathered his courage and confidence) could probably handle a first-class mage, but it's not like there is a lot of warriors of that caliber hanging around either. Stark would freak out, then not be cut in two, would blink in surprise, and then he'd bring Ubel in with no real difficulties.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 20:38
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:Maybe we should start taking bets on who's going to become a first-class mage and who's going to die. everyone dies, the story continues on with stark alone
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 20:55
|
|
|
Qtotonibudinibudet posted:everyone dies, the story continues on with stark alone I'd watch this.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 21:10
|
|
|
Genau's name being what it is is funny to me, because when I lived in Austria it was basically used as a conversational filler word, kind of like we'd use "yeah" or "sure."
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 21:37
|
|
|
Apparently it means "precisely" or "exactly"? which sounds about right, yeah. Meanwhile, "Ubel" is apparently German for "evil", albeit in the sense of "malicious" rather than "Satan", which is still "a little bit on the nose, huh".
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:04
|
|
|
In a world where the strong guy is called Stark, I think you just have to roll with on the nose naming.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:08
|
|
|
btw are we supposed to understand that frieren and fern are like, a solid level above the other mages they've been interacting with. that's the vibe i get but idk if i'm jumping to conclusions
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:32
|
|
|
tbp posted:btw are we supposed to understand that frieren and fern are like, a solid level above the other mages they've been interacting with. that's the vibe i get but idk if i'm jumping to conclusions I think the recent episodes have made it clear they're both sandbagging
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:34
|
|
|
I would say that Frieren is completely out of the league of anybody else who's present, unsurprisingly. Fern is massively talented, well-trained for her age, and has absorbed a lot of Frieren's general approach to magic, but is still in the same general "tier" as the best of the mages present. (Although that's still several tiers above Kanne and Lawine, who probably just should not be here as they are obviously not the kind of person this exam is designed to select for.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:38
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:I would say that Frieren is completely out of the league of anybody else who's present, unsurprisingly. Almost certainly, but of course Frieren's already said she's lost multiple times to human mages so, like, you never know. It's not the size of your MP gauge, it's how you use it 
TwoPair fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jan 29, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:50
|
|
|
She minmaxed her build for demon killing, against human mages, especially in the new age, who knows?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:52
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:Almost certainly, but of course Frieren's already said she's lost multiple times to human mages so, like, you never know. True, but I don't think that really means that she isn't in a league of her own; it just means that time and chance happen to them all, you know?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:54
|
|
|
Fern has deck stacked in her favor, due to being insanely talented in general, having her own unique super fact casting ability and being trained in fighting style optimized to most efficiently defeat members of race that basically consists of nothing but powerful wizards. However I would say that she is still beatable by most other teams, assuming they would get some kind of (big) advantage. Like the most obvious example is Wirbel, who would probably be able to consistently defeat her, because I don't think she has anything to counter his paralyzing gaze and her default approach to combat would make her extremely vulnerable to it. But I can see even Kanne and Lawine having a fair shot at beating her, if they fought near (or even better, above) a big body of water and pulled an unexpected combo attack like what they did against the Stille. Frieren is, obviously, in a league far above everyone involved, probably including the examiners.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:56
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:I would say that Frieren is completely out of the league of anybody else who's present, unsurprisingly. yeah they were lucky as hell they got frieren on their team kinda rolling the dice to see if they got murdered by some overserious edgelord. it may still happen
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:57
|
|
|
I'm waiting for the One Punchline Man to happen where all this posturing and flashy battle technique gets resolved with a single strike from Frieren after she gets bored.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 22:59
|
|
|
usenet celeb 1992 posted:She minmaxed her build for demon killing, against human mages, especially in the new age, who knows? Frieren does have one of my favorite scifi/fantasy tropes which is that humans operate on such a short time scale compared to a lot of things that we just rapidly evolve and also we're extremely good at thinking of ways of surviving/killing. So human mages might do something really unexpected to win, where as Demons are just like "im rly strong let me mindlessly blast you with this strong technique"
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 23:04
|
|
|
Humans adopting the "gently caress it, we ball" approach that let's them surprise their enemies. I bet you the less friendly elves (if there are any) are probably scared of human advancements.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 23:09
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:In a world where the strong guy is called Stark, I think you just have to roll with on the nose naming. storieswithstyle has a 3-hour video going into quintessentially German levels of detail about the meanings of the names and what they might reveal about the future of the story. (He's an anime-only thusfar.) https://youtu.be/v_QP06N1mnk?si=8ATAY2gt969SH_yw
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 23:19
|
|
|
tbp posted:btw are we supposed to understand that frieren and fern are like, a solid level above the other mages they've been interacting with. that's the vibe i get but idk if i'm jumping to conclusions Well I mean Frieren is Frieren so she is light years away from nearly everyone in general. Frieren's comment about Draht when she fought him about how demons in this age are hopeless because they lack battle experience goes for mages as well. You get a sense of who has and hasn't been in a fight where they've been seriously challenged, or have had to make a legitimate decision whether or not they have to kill another human. Ehre, and Kanne and Lawine especially, give off the "we did well in school but have never really had to use this stuff practically" vibes, which you saw with Kanne and Lawine utterly failing to capture the first stille because they were overconfident, not assessing the situation first or even listening to someone they knew was more experienced, and just jumped in to it thinking they had it in the bag (or cage, as it were). We already know Fern is talented for her age from just a pure magic standpoint because of how she passed the third-class exam, she has the added benefit of being trained by Frieren, who has an old-head mindset and drilled in to her the types of things mages around during the time of the Demon King would have needed to not die, and Fern has had to use that training in the real world where death was absolutely a possibility if she hosed up (as she noted, the only reason why Lugner didn't straight up kill her as soon as he attacked her was because of his ego, she knows she would have been dead otherwise). Fern is also being trained by someone that predates blocking "ordinary offensive magic"; you see it in her fight with Lugner that she wasn't trying to block everything, and you see it in her fight with Ehre that Ehre was trying to block everything and got completely overwhelmed due to the mana penalty compared to Fern going brrrrrr. Probably the only "weakness" Fern has compared to some of the other mages in the exam that would actually be a threat is that unless the situation is absolutely dire and there is no other way around it, she's not going kill to a human. We know Wirbel has killed people (even if he has to work up the nerve to do it), we know Ubel has definitely killed people, Richter has pointed out that Denken has probably killed people or had people killed due to political ambition, and Richter has probably killed people (given his immediate and primary plan was "yo i'mma kill these kids" and 100% meant it since Denken had to tell him to not kill the kids).
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 23:39
|
|
|
Kvantum posted:storieswithstyle has a 3-hour video going into quintessentially German levels of detail about the meanings of the names and what they might reveal about the future of the story. (He's an anime-only thusfar.) Yeah I saw a different German-speaking reactor watching the show, and one of the things she asked was "are they going to have to change the names for a German dub?" because the names are like so comically on the nose that it would be a little absurd to just keep them because it would be a bit too immersion breaking.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2024 23:45
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:I bet you the less friendly elves (if there are any) are probably scared of human advancements. Race known for not giving a poo poo about literally anything, including their own extinction: Progress is scary. HamburgerTownUSA posted:Frieren's comment about Draht when she fought him about how demons in this age are hopeless because they lack battle experience goes for mages as well. This is the North, home of demons, and most of these people have been fighting for their entire life. It's just a different type of combat, less insane apocalyptic wars and more hunting and small towns occasionally getting wiped out. It makes a difference though, because there are moments where you aren't thinking about dying. Here or there. You still know you could die, but it's not at the front of your mind at all times. Fern was trained by someone still in the mindset of forever war, where you never let your guard down for a moment and you always ready yourself for the killing blow. Not everyone is quite at that level, but they aren't exactly pampered school kids. These people are still mostly honed killing machines. Even the cute uwu girls, because that's what a mage does. They kill monsters. All of them, all the time. There never were and never will be any mages that get a break in their world, because their mana is strong and that makes them a target. quote:Probably the only "weakness" Fern has compared to some of the other mages in the exam that would actually be a threat is that unless the situation is absolutely dire and there is no other way around it, she's not going kill to a human. Her weakness is she doesn't know poo poo about most combat magic, and there's a bunch of people that use control and deceptive magic she has no answer to. She gets that binding spell cast on her, it's over. Also if her sociopathic partner was less sadistic and used her power a bit more efficiently, there's nothing Fern could do about it. And if.....so forth and so on. She defeated one person who took her lightly. She's still amazing, but she also got a good match up and her fighting style is based on getting people to let their guard down. That's great in a fight. It's loving stupid in a test. You get to do it once, and unless you kill all witnesses everyone else knows you are way stronger than you look and never lets their guard down ever again. Mulva fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 30, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 00:25
|
|
|
she has fast reaction, i think if he tried the binding spell on her, she would sense it happening and protect her body with mana before it binds her. like how Frieren is able to protect her neck from the magic string fast enough to not get her head chopped off, which would totally work on every other mage in the test. GateOfD fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jan 30, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 00:56
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:In a world where the strong guy is called Stark, I think you just have to roll with on the nose naming. Frieren = 'to feel cold, to be cold', Fern = 'remote, aloof', Eisen = 'iron', Himmel = 'heaven', Heiter = 'bright', Ubel = 'bad', Kraft = 'power', Denken = 'think' ... It's Star Wars levels of character naming, lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 01:02
|
|
|
GateOfD posted:she has fast reaction, i think if he tried the binding spell on her, she would sense it happening and protect her body with mana before it binds her. She's not faster than the bird who got taken out by the exact same type of spell. It's also not a projectile. It doesn't fly over to bind you or something. It binds you in place. The only defensive spell Fern knows is shielding. It's kind of poo poo against really weird or overpowering stuff. Ferns entire tool set is the most practical and wildly applicable things to kill monsters. The magical version of a Glock and a bullet proof vest, which is enough for her to roll up and threaten most living things in their world. She runs up against a dragon and all she can do is run or die. Frieren has depth, she can work up a spell that could kill a dragon in time. Fern doesn't. It's her biggest weakness. She's so fast and competent it's not much of a weakness, but it's still a weakness. She is overall one of the stronger mages in this test, but she has some gaping flaws a more balanced mage wouldn't. Most more balanced mages can't stand up to her for a heartbeat though. It's not right nor wrong, it's just the trade off for what she is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 01:13
|
|
|
Mulva posted:Her weakness is she doesn't know poo poo about most combat magic, and there's a bunch of people that use control and deceptive magic she has no answer to. She gets that binding spell cast on her, it's over. Also if her sociopathic partner was less sadistic and used her power a bit more efficiently, there's nothing Fern could do about it. And if.....so forth and so on. She defeated one person who took her lightly. She's still amazing, but she also got a good match up and her fighting style is based on getting people to let their guard down. That's great in a fight. It's loving stupid in a test. You get to do it once, and unless you kill all witnesses everyone else knows you are way stronger than you look and never lets their guard down ever again. There are a lot of assumptions here. Her master is Frieren who due to the fact she was fighting before basic combat magic was a thing means that she would have training to deal with that as well. Also it isn't stupid in this type of test. If everyone was colleagues then they might talk about it but for the most part everyone is strangers so there are not going to start blabbing without incentive. That and as the demon fight showed, an opponent having no idea how much longer you can go in a fight is a nice advantage.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 01:15
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:Frieren = 'to feel cold, to be cold', Fern = 'remote, aloof', Eisen = 'iron', Himmel = 'heaven', Heiter = 'bright', Ubel = 'bad', Kraft = 'power', Denken = 'think' ... Just change then to their english equivalents for the German dub.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 01:17
|
|
|
Hunt11 posted:There are a lot of assumptions here. Her master is Frieren who due to the fact she was fighting before basic combat magic was a thing means that she would have training to deal with that as well. They had this conversation in the cave. Fern admitted she doesn't know a lot of combat magic. It's what leads to the joke about her seeing through clothes. There are no assumptions at work, that's just the text of the story as presented so far. She's trained to be world class at one thing, and also that one thing is all she can do. It's a fair trade off, but it *is* a trade off.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 01:49
|
|
|
Mulva posted:They had this conversation in the cave. Fern admitted she doesn't know a lot of combat magic. It's what leads to the joke about her seeing through clothes. There are no assumptions at work, that's just the text of the story as presented so far. Fern, a person who lies as easily as she breathes in combat or combat adjacent situations and who has spent the majority of her life concealing her magical strength from any who'd observe her did not reveal that she knew other combat magic to people she may yet still need to fight. We know the stille can move fast, but not it's reaction time. We don't know what conditions or restrictions that binding spell has beyond maintaining vision - do you have to calibrate it to your target's mana level, for example? Can you cast it on someone with more mana? We know that many of these kids went to magic school down south so we pointedly do not know whether all the uwu kids, as you put it, are killing machines. We don't know how many mages spend their time killing monsters compared to how many are cloistered academics. We know that the wilds of the north are more dangerous than the south, but we don't know just how safe the south is and we do know there's a magic university down there. You're definitely making assumptions that go beyond the text. I don't think your take is wrong per se - you very well might be right - but I do think you're being more certain than warranted, and more dismissive of other views.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 02:03
|
|
|
pork never goes bad posted:Fern, a person who lies as easily as she breathes in combat or combat adjacent situations and who has spent the majority of her life concealing her magical strength from any who'd observe her did not reveal that she knew other combat magic to people she may yet still need to fight. Fern, the person who has had multiple fights throughout the story and has only done one thing every single time. Hey I can do that too! quote:We know the stille can move fast, but not it's reaction time. Of course you do, you know that the instant anyone disturbs it with the slightest bit of mana it screws off. It's pretty fast. It's not mind breakingly super-humanly fast, or nobody could catch it at all. So it falls somewhere between "Fast" and "Unthinkably fast". Not a complicated thought. quote:We know that many of these kids went to magic school down south so we pointedly do not know whether all the uwu kids, as you put it, are killing machines. We started the journey in the south, where Fern and Frieren slowly killed their way north through all sorts of nonsense. Not every mage is running into Aura, but every mage is running into something. quote:You're definitely making assumptions that go beyond the text. Nah.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 02:11
|
|
|
Kinda stupid argument to make out Fern being unable to defend against the entirely unblockable binding spell being some sort of weakness in what she does. Do we even know she can't see through the deception type magics using her known strong ability to sense magic? Why isn't her ability to simply stealth and then point a gun at the head of basically whoever she wants not more than sufficient? Or is this some future knowledge bullshit that should GTFO of this thread? ChronoReverse fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jan 30, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 02:18
|
|
|
ChronoReverse posted:Or is this some future knowledge bullshit that should GTFO of this thread? they're mentioning THE TEXT so probably
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 02:21
|
|
|
At least we got it cleared up that basically all the mages know who frieren is
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 02:23
|
|
|
Do they though? It seems more like Denken is the only one in the exam who actually figured it out
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 02:24
|
|
|
Fern's never needed to do anything else because, as her master says, you don't need more than basic combat magic to defeat mages of this era. Assuming that she has no tools to fall back on or hasn't learned any other combat appropriate magic is silly. We saw a spell affect a stille and for it to subsequently break the spell. It didn't react fast enough to the mana swelling beneath it. Pointedly, we know that it can't escape the binding spell being applied to it but we don't know whether that's true or Fern, a mage who is consistently shown to surprise her opponents with both her speed and her control. I don't doubt there's risk in the wilderness in the south, but again your assumption that all mages fight is absolutely an assumption. Unless you're reading stuff we haven't seen, you're way too arrogant about this stuff and it's a bad look.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 02:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:09 |
|
|
VideoWitch posted:Do they though? It seems more like Denken is the only one in the exam who actually figured it out Her own party member said she wondered about it, but was surprised elves really lived that long. Boogalo posted:they're mentioning THE TEXT so probably No, if I was doing that I'd be saying something entirely different. pork never goes bad posted:Unless you're reading stuff we haven't seen, you're way too arrogant about this stuff and it's a bad look. No, again, this is all just from the story in front of you. Your "counters" are poo poo that isn't in the story, like "What if this hypothetical was true?" means anything. When Frieren says that she doesn't want an apprentice because most of them die, what did you think that meant? That's not me projecting, that's what you were told. Heiter had to fake that whole grimoire bit to get Frieren to train Fern for half a decade, in total safety before, she'd even think about taking her along.....and there were still times Fern got tripped up and would have died without Frieren. It's rough out there for mages. All of them. Mulva fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jan 30, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 02:27
|
|