USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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Uncle Boogeyman: Jul 22, 2007

ummel posted:

Not sure what they're referring to, but

The Uhuru movement was recently indicted
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-citizens-and-russian-intelligence-officers-charged-conspiring-use-us-citizens-illegal

And there was that weird fringe communist group that kept pledging allegiance to Putin or whatever during the start of the Ukraine war. I cannot remember their name and Google is more than useless nowadays without the correct keywords.

I was asking specifically about which organizations Nancy Pelosi has shown a pattern of identifying as �lovely faux-progressive organisations that believe in nothing but making chaos under the orders of foreign governments.�

# ? Jan 30, 2024 14:45

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# ? May 20, 2024 17:38

The Top G: Jul 19, 2023; by Fluffdaddy

Killer robot posted:

Would that pattern happen to be "calling out a protest organized by a group whose foreign funding is both well-demonstrated and which caused significant change in their directions of activism?" Since that's what it was that time.

And if you want to say that you don't really care if they're a Chinese-backed group that moved toward mostly doing things in Chinese interests, that's fine. It just seems that every time something like that happens we have to go through this whole version of the Narcissist's Prayer from step one where it's absurd to suggest a message has foreign sources, and even if it's plausible there's no evidence, and even if there is it's honest and meant to effect positive change, and even if it isn't it didn't have much effect, and even if it did so what you CIA lover.

This is an ad hominem attack against the protestors. We should engage with the message they are spreading and examine it in good faith and accept or discard it on its own merits.

Nancy Pelosi received hundreds of thousands of dollars from pro-Israel groups. This funding is both well demonstrated and happened to cause a significant change in her political directions. Should we call her an Israel-backed politician?

her recent behavior and statements were done for Israel�s benefit while likely harming her political cause in her home country - Is she acting as a foreign agent for Israel?

(USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)

The Top G fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Jan 30, 2024

# ? Jan 30, 2024 14:47

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Code Pink doesn't seem to have been on the radar since Biden won and Trump lost, useful until they're not it seems with that particular sect of Democratic Party activism, all good signs for November.

Nonsense fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jan 30, 2024

# ? Jan 30, 2024 14:52

Staluigi: Jun 22, 2021

don't forget Black Hammer

Every part of that insane organization was like it was designed to lure in the russians. zero percent chance they didn't end up taking marching orders for a few payments to gazi kodzo

# ? Jan 30, 2024 14:54

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

The Artificial Kid posted:

It's resurfacing because somebody thinks deliberately refloating it will cause disruption and strife for Pelosi and the Democrats.

I guess it�s too bad that the clip is an actual clip of her actually saying that.

Pleasant Friend posted:

Code Pink is a poo poo organisation and Pelosi was loving right in that case.

The only "point" made is that she has a pattern of identifying lovely faux-progressive organisations that believe in nothing but making chaos under the orders of foreign governments.

Interesting, do you have any sources to support this assertion?

Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jan 30, 2024

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:14

Nervous: Jan 25, 2005; Why, hello, my little slice of pecan pie.

The Top G posted:

This an A and B conversation, so C your way out before D and E come and knock you the F out.

Is this a bit based on your username? I'm honestly not sure.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:20

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Nucleic Acids posted:

I guess it�s too bad that the clip is an actual clip of her actually saying that.

Interesting, do you have any sources to support this assertion?

It was posted right after the OP about two pages ago. The group she was arguing with in that clip literally are funded by China (the new President is also married to the head of a Shanghai TV show funded by the city's propaganda department) and she was referencing a New York Times investigation published last year.

quote:

In fact, a New York Times investigation found, it is part of a lavishly funded influence campaign that defends China and pushes its propaganda. What is less known, and is hidden amid a tangle of nonprofit groups and shell companies, is that Mr. Singham works closely with the Chinese government media machine and is financing its propaganda worldwide.

From a think tank in Massachusetts to an event space in Manhattan, from a political party in South Africa to news organizations in India and Brazil, The Times tracked hundreds of millions of dollars to groups linked to Mr. Singham that mix progressive advocacy with Chinese government talking points.

quote:

Code Pink once criticized China�s rights record but now defends its internment of the predominantly Muslim Uyghurs, which human rights experts have labeled a crime against humanity.

These groups are funded through American nonprofits flush with at least $275 million in donations.

But Mr. Singham, 69, himself sits in Shanghai, where one outlet in his network is co-producing a YouTube show financed in part by the city�s propaganda department. Two others are working with a Chinese university to �spread China�s voice to the world.� And last month, Mr. Singham joined a Communist Party workshop about promoting the party internationally.

Mr. Singham says he does not work at the direction of the Chinese government. But the line between him and the propaganda apparatus is so blurry that he shares office space � and his groups share staff members � with a company whose goal is to educate foreigners about �the miracles that China has created on the world stage.�

quote:

Ms. Evans has organized around progressive causes like climate change, gender and racism. Until a few years ago, she readily criticized China�s authoritarian government.

�We demand China stop brutal repression of their women�s human rights defenders,� she wrote on Twitter in 2015. She later posted on Instagram a photo with the Chinese dissident Ai Weiwei.

quote:

Since 2017, about a quarter of Code Pink�s donations � more than $1.4 million � have come from two groups linked to Mr. Singham, nonprofit records show. The first was one of the UPS store nonprofits. The second was a charity that Goldman Sachs offers as a conduit for clients� giving, and that Mr. Singham has used in the past.

Ms. Evans now stridently supports China. She casts it as a defender of the oppressed and a model for economic growth without slavery or war. �If the U.S. crushes China,� she said in 2021, it �would cut off hope for the human race and life on Earth.�

She describes the Uyghurs as terrorists and defends their mass detention. �We have to do something,� she said in 2021.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-china-propaganda.html

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:22

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

It was posted right after the OP about two pages ago. The group she was arguing with in that clip literally are funded by China (the new President is also married to the head of a Shanghai TV show funded by the city's propaganda department) and she was referencing a New York Times investigation published last year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-china-propaganda.html

Okay. She still clearly foreign actors are behind most, if not all, anti genocide protests.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:25

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Nucleic Acids posted:

Okay. She still clearly foreign actors are behind most, if not all, anti genocide protests.

Do you have a source for that assertion?

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:26

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

Xiahou Dun posted:

Do you have a source for that assertion?

Her calling on the FBI to investigate anti war groups.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:28

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Nucleic Acids posted:

Her calling on the FBI to investigate anti war groups.

When did she call on the FBI to investigate anti-war groups in general?

Or even just when did she call on the FBI? Stating a vague desire for them to look at something is different.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:30

Bwee: Jul 1, 2005

Nucleic Acids posted:

Okay. She still clearly foreign actors are behind most, if not all, anti genocide protests.

Lol this is an excellent reaction to someone showing you that you were wrong about something

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:32

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

Xiahou Dun posted:

When did she call on the FBI to investigate anti-war groups in general?

Or even just when did she call on the FBI? Stating a vague desire for them to look at something is different.

A �vague� desire is still a desire, and she did not in any way attempt to clarify which ones should be. It�s just McCarthyism being wielded against groups that are making her party look bad.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:33

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Nucleic Acids posted:

A �vague� desire is still a desire, and she did not in any way attempt to clarify which ones should be. It�s just McCarthyism being wielded against groups that are making her party look bad.

Yes, but that's not calling on the FBI which is what you said.

Words mean things.

Also have you just abandoned trying to to turn "some" into "most"?

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:34

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

Bwee posted:

Lol this is an excellent reaction to someone showing you that you were wrong about something

She did actually Russia for some anti genocide protests.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:34

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

Xiahou Dun posted:

Yes, but that's not calling on the FBI which is what you said.

Words mean things.

Also have you just abandoned trying to to turn "some" into "most"?

She expressed a clear desire for an investigation using McCarthyite tactics.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:35

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Nucleic Acids posted:

She expressed a clear desire for an investigation using McCarthyite tactics.

Yes, but that's not what you said she did. Do you have a source for that?

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:36

Bwee: Jul 1, 2005

Nucleic Acids posted:

She did actually Russia for some anti genocide protests.

What?

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:36

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

Xiahou Dun posted:

Yes, but that's not what you said she did. Do you have a source for that?

My source is her saying it on CNN, which has been posted in this thread.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:38

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

Bwee posted:

What?

I mean she did say she thinks anti war groups should be investigated.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:39

Kagrenak: Sep 8, 2010

quote="Nucleic Acids" post="537498606"]
My source is her saying it on CNN, which has been posted in this thread.
[/quote]

Even given her stupid comments it's pretty obvious she doesn't believe everyone or even most of who are attending the protests are paid or anything:

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/28/1227487571/pelosi-gaza-fbi-ceasefire-protesters-russia posted:

Asked for clarification on whether she thought some anti-war protesters were plants, Pelosi said: "I don't think they're plants. I think some financing should be investigated. And I want to ask the FBI to investigate that."

Even calling for an investigation of funding in this manner is a stupid and bad move for both civil rights and optics though.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 15:41

The Top G: Jul 19, 2023; by Fluffdaddy

Apropos of recent �9/11 was inside job� discussion, it seems a certain beloved congressman believed there was more to it than the official story:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ny-rep-jamaal-bowman-promoted-911-conspiracy-theories-on-blog

quote:

Squad member Rep. Jamaal Bowman promoted wild conspiracy theories about 9/11 on his personal blog during his previous career as a middle school principal, The Daily Beast has discovered.

After being asked about his writing, the New York Democrat disavowed it�saying in a statement Monday that he �regrets� his posts and does not believe in those theories.

�Well over a decade ago, as I was debating diving into a doctoral degree, I explored a wide range of books, films, and articles across a wide swath of the political spectrum and processed my thoughts in a personal blog that few people ever read,� Bowman said, though he did not address whether he gave credence to the conspiracy theories at the time.

Web archives show that while Bowman was a 35-year-old educator running the Cornerstone Academy for Social Action in the Bronx, he maintained an online journal at Relentless-Strongback.Blogspot.com, where he published poems and brief essays there on personal, political, and pedagogical concerns through 2014.

Every entry was deleted some time before February 2016, but the compositions preserved in archives included 137 lines of free verse from May 2011 entitled �Recapitulate.� What begins as a meditation on a decade-plus of world events, recollecting anxiety over Y2K and controversy around the 2000 Florida recount, swiftly delves into the world of 9/11 trutherism.

�2001/Planes used as missiles/Target: The Twin Towers,� a stanza on the terror attack begins. �Later in the day/Building 7/Also Collaspsed [sic]/Hmm.../Multiple explosions/Heard before/And during the collapse/Hmm��

Bowman there invoked a favorite, disproven trope of the paranoid fringe: that the collapse of Building 7 was the result of a controlled demolition. In fact, the National Institute of Standards and Technology determined that Building 7 buckled and fell after debris from its taller peers struck it and ignited a blaze inside, undermining its structural integrity. The agency found that none of the details of collapse, from the manner in which the building�s windows broke to the sounds reported in the area, were consistent with the massive blasts a controlled demolition would have required.

The poem then pursues even more obscure conspiratorial musings.

�Allegedly/Two other planes/The Pentagon/Pennsylvania/Hijacked by terrorist [sic]/Minimal damage done/Minimal debris found/Hmm�� he wrote.

That would appear to allude to Flight 93 and Flight 77, both of which left behind considerable debris, including black boxes and human remains. The strike on the Pentagon led to part of its outer wall collapsing, resulting in 125 fatalities within, and the deaths of all 59 people aboard the plane.

�We blamed Osama/Went to war in Iraq/Captured Saddam/Killed him,� Bowman�s poem reads. �Bin Laden is Afghan/So we went to war there too.� In fact, Bin Laden, who openly took credit for the Sept. 11 attacks, never held Afghan citizenship and was born into a billionaire Saudi family.

Loose Change is a viral �documentary� which has become an international laughingstock for positing that the U.S. government carried out the Sept. 11 attacks, based on a range of debunked and nonsensical assertions.

Zeitgeist, similarly a product of the message board and chain email margins of the aughties web, is a 2007 film that goes beyond preposterous fantasies about the 2001 hijackings and argues that a ring of globalist bankers controls the Federal Reserve and periodically contrives national tragedies to compel the U.S. government to embark on wars and take out greater debt. The movie rehashes a �90s-era conspiracy theory about an alleged plot to merge the U.S., Canada, and Mexico into a single country, and eventually to dissolve all national governments into a single planet-spanning regime. It also questions whether Jesus actually existed (nearly all historians agree that he did).

Both Zeitgeist and Loose Change were favorites of mass shooter Jared Loughner, who killed six people and injured 13 more, including then-Rep. Gabby Giffords, in a rampage in Tucson, Arizona in January 2011. And both productions enjoyed the backing of arch-conspiracy hawker Alex Jones: He served as executive director of the �final cut� of Loose Change, and declared he agrees with �90% of Zeitgeist,� further claiming that the movie drew from his own work.

There can be no mistaking that these are the subjects of Bowman�s poem: He even refers to Zeitgeist director Peter Joseph by name.

�Shout out to John Perkins/William Cooper/Michael Moore/Peter Joseph/And Adam Curtis,� Bowman wrote.

John Perkins is the author of the book Secrets of an Economic Hit Man, and William Cooper was a radio host and hero of the militia movement�and of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh�known for fevered ramblings about aliens, the Illuminati, and the supposed man-made origin of HIV/AIDS. Cooper died in a shoot-out with law enforcement in November 2001. Michael Moore and Adam Curtis are both left-wing documentary-makers.

In his statement Monday, Bowman said: �I don�t believe anything that these cranks have said, and my life�s work has proven that. As a Congressman, I�ve written a Congressional Resolution condemning a dangerous conspiracy theory, I�ve stood up to MAGA extremists, and I�ve called out the endless bullshit of the far-right.�

He added that he has �learned how misinformation spreads� since the time of the blog post and �I regret posting anything about any of these people. Anyone who looks at my work today knows where I stand.�

# ? Jan 30, 2024 16:26

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

That's a terrible poem.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 16:30

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

The only thing worse than 9/11 trutherism is free verse poetry 9/11 trutherism.

Possibly an even worse sign of mental stability is a 35-year old man writing in 2014 how he still has anxiety about Y2k.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 16:32

Angry_Ed: Mar 30, 2010; Grimey Drawer

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The only thing worse than 9/11 trutherism is free verse poetry 9/11 trutherism.

Possibly an even worse sign of mental stability is a 35-year old man writing in 2014 how he still has anxiety about Y2k.

If it was 2038 Anxiety though that'd at least be understandable

# ? Jan 30, 2024 16:42

Staluigi: Jun 22, 2021

Nucleic Acids posted:

Okay. She still clearly foreign actors are behind most, if not all, anti genocide protests.

Nucleic Acids posted:

She did actually Russia for some anti genocide protests.

Accidentally a word, but more importantly there's a meandering shift from "most, if not all" to "some"

# ? Jan 30, 2024 16:42

Fifteen of Many: Feb 23, 2006

The details about the subpoena starting to leak out.

https://x.com/bresreports/status/1752355402606399836?s=46&t=bfbUdXZ7wtKr5Ce8r1pCkQ

Not nearly as fun as the alternatives!

# ? Jan 30, 2024 16:45

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

A new study about U.S. real estate prices shows a lot of previous trends continuing. Nothing too surprising, but a couple of noticable trends:

- Florida continues its transformation from one of the cheapest places to live in 2000 to one of the most expensive places to live in 2024.

Every single one of the most expensive zip codes in the country (with a single exception of downtown Seattle) is now in California or Florida.

- The most expensive areas in the country are rapidly getting even more expensive. However, there are still significant tracts of cheap housing in the rust belt and south.

The most expensive neighborhoods are now roughly 200x more expensive than the cheapest neighborhoods in the U.S.

All of the ten cheapest areas are in the rust belt or non-urban areas in the south.

The full list of the top 10 most and least expensive neighborhoods in the country is posted after the article text.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1752134535083417765

quote:

House hunters frequently consider price per square foot when they're shopping for real estate because the figure can provide value comparisons with other properties in the same area.

But looking at a neighborhood's average selling price on a square-foot basis can also shed some insight into where America's priciest and cheapest real estate is located.

A new report from home warranty company American Home Shield finds that the nation's most expensive neighborhoods are located in California, Florida and New York, while the cheapest zip codes can be found in the Rust Belt and the South. While those cheaper locations might provide more affordable properties, they could come with some downsides, such as a lack of job opportunities or housing choices.

Still, buyers can save a lot of money by opting for a neighborhood with a lower per-square-foot sales price. The difference between the most expensive neighborhood and the least costly place to buy a home is $5,386 per square foot, AHS' findings show.

The most expensive American neighborhood: San Francisco's South of Market, a zip code that's home to tech giants such as Airbnb and Uber. South of Market's median household income is about $104,440, higher than the median U.S. household income of about $75,000.

Buying a property in South of Market will cost about $5,415 per square foot � or about $5.4 million for a 1,000-square-foot apartment. In the cheapest location, Homewood, Pennsylvania, that same-sized home would cost about $29,000.

On a national basis, the median price per square foot is about $222, according to Rocket Mortgage. That equates to a purchase price of $222,000 for a 1,000 square-foot apartment.

quote:

Least Expensive:

Homewood, North Allegheny County, Pennsylvania - $29 per square foot
West Jackson, Hinds County, Missouri - $32 per square foot
Downtown Gary, Lake County, Indiana - $32 per square foot
Metawanee Hills, Genesee County, Michigan - $32 per square foot
Uptown Memphis, Shelby County, Tennessee - $33 per square foot
Wells/Goodfellow, St. Louis City, Missouri - $33 per square foot
Onyx, Lucas County, Ohio - $34 per square foot
Queensborough, Caddo Parish, Louisiana - $35 per square foot
Industry, Delaware County, Indiana - $35 per square foot
Roosevelt, Lucas County, Ohio - $35 per square foot

Most Expensive:

South of Market, San Francisco, California - $5,415 per square foot
Northwest Auburn, Placer County, California - $4,416 per square foot
Old Town Carpinteria, Santa Barbara County, California - $4,129 per square foot
Downtown Bellevue, King County, Washington - $3,619 per square foot
Port Royal, Collier County, Florida - $3,375 per square foot
Aqualane Shares, Collier County, Florida - $3,132 per square foot
Stinson Beach, Marin County, California - $2,988 per square foot
Star, Palm & Hibiscus Islands, Miami/Dade County, Florida - $2,861 per square foot
Crystal Cove, Orange County, California - $2,771 per square foot
Casa del Largo, Palm Beach County, Florida - $2,754 per square foot

# ? Jan 30, 2024 16:50

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Star Island is lower on that list than I would have guessed

# ? Jan 30, 2024 16:52

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

Assuming there's exactly one expensive house for sale in Placer County

Edit: I was thinking of Alpine County

CPColin fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jan 30, 2024

# ? Jan 30, 2024 17:14

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

A new study about U.S. real estate prices shows a lot of previous trends continuing. Nothing too surprising, but a couple of noticable trends:

Hmm, I wonder how much those cheapest places are increasing in price, if at all. I feel like the baseline ("In the best case scenarios, are things getting better or worse, and by how much?") seems super important for the conversation but I've not had much luck figuring it out.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 17:15

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

GlyphGryph posted:

Hmm, I wonder how much those cheapest places are increasing in price, if at all. I feel like the baseline ("In the best case scenarios, are things getting better or worse, and by how much?") seems super important for the conversation but I've not had much luck figuring it out.

On a per square foot basis, the cheapest one (Homewood, in PA) only increased 1.4% last year - lower than inflation.

However, when you google the name of the town one of the first things that comes up is how it was "destroyed by disinvestment when industry shut down in the 1970's and then the war on drugs," so there might be a specific reason for that extremely low median home value (~$30k).

Edit: It looks like almost all of them on the cheapest list have barely increased in price at all or even decreased when adjusted for inflation, but almost all of them are towns that started dying in the 1970's and 1980's because they were reliant on one specific industry that shrank or left and they never recovered - including the ironically named "Industry" in Indiana.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jan 30, 2024

# ? Jan 30, 2024 17:23

Mooseontheloose: May 13, 2003

I want to live near where I grew up, is that so hard to ask?!

# ? Jan 30, 2024 17:29

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Mooseontheloose posted:

I want to live near where I grew up, is that so hard to ask?!

Maybe, but you have to go back in time and make sure that you don't grow up in California, Florida, Seattle, Manhattan, Washington D.C., Boston or Hawaii.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 17:31

Mooseontheloose: May 13, 2003

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Maybe, but you have to go back in time and make sure that you don't grow up in California, Florida, Seattle, Manhattan, Washington D.C., Boston or Hawaii.

Alternatively, I can cause an environmental crisis near one of these places.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 17:33

BougieBitch: Oct 2, 2013; Basic as hell

GlyphGryph posted:

Hmm, I wonder how much those cheapest places are increasing in price, if at all. I feel like the baseline ("In the best case scenarios, are things getting better or worse, and by how much?") seems super important for the conversation but I've not had much luck figuring it out.

The places with the cheapest prices are places where the walls are full of asbestos and every house on offer is going to require a full teardown to be livable - or at the least, Gary Indiana definitely fits that bill and I'd imagine the same is mostly true for the rest

That isn't to say that the overall trend of housing being cheaper in the rust belt and non-urban south isn't true, but there is a certain minimum standard of "4 walls, a ceiling, and a foundation" and "won't kill me just from living here for 5 years"

Flint, MI is almost certainly not a unique case, btw, and some of these communities are probably infrastructure nightmares that will not be resolved at any point in the next 30 years

Edit: I literally grew up in Delaware County, Indiana and I have never heard of the town of "Industry", so I'm guessing that's, like, 5 houses on a country road that technically have their own name for historical reasons?

I guess technically they are talking about "neighborhoods", and this must be the "official" name for the spooky ghost town on the far side of Muncie?

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/611-E-6th-St_Muncie_IN_47302_M46296-38020

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/824-S-Penn-St_Muncie_IN_47302_M42112-29469

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1205-E-6th-St_Muncie_IN_47302_M35480-21797

The median is $33 because the lowest value one is a literal empty lawn, the next lowest is a deathtrap, and the median one is probably technically livable but has lead, mold, or both and would need substantial refurbishment.

There are 5 listings for the neighborhood, so that's the list of relevant entries

I actually lived across the tracks from this neighborhood back when I was in elementary school, I double-checked and it doesn't actually contain the public housing communities (those were on my side of the tracks), but according to the census data it is 98th percentile for persons with disability and has elevated rates of diabetes, heart disease, asthma, and poor mental health according to the EJI map (which is just contextualized census data), so you can imagine why people aren't going to pay a premium to get in there. There's room to debate whether the lived environment causes the health conditions or the health conditions make it so you can't afford to live anywhere else, but I feel pretty comfortable saying that the median home for sale in that neighborhood is a health hazard in one way or another and a lot of them are going to have a history of foreclosures.

BougieBitch fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jan 30, 2024

# ? Jan 30, 2024 17:58

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

GlyphGryph posted:

Hmm, I wonder how much those cheapest places are increasing in price, if at all. I feel like the baseline ("In the best case scenarios, are things getting better or worse, and by how much?") seems super important for the conversation but I've not had much luck figuring it out.

They're basically not increasing at all, but it's not really right to talk about a single national baseline. A big part of the overall home pricing problem is that there's only really a handful of areas that most people actually want to live in. There's still vast chunks of America that are relatively cheap overall, but they're cheap because not all that many people really wants to live there. Even in California and Florida, there's huge shifts in prices depending on what part of the state you're looking.

Here's a national summary of home prices from the National Association of Realtors that clearly illustrates the problem:

While this map is purchase prices only, rents follow a fairly similar pattern. As you can see, there's still plenty of cheap homes available - as long as you're willing to live well away from a major urban area, and especially if you're willing to live in flyover country, the Midwest, or the deep South.

Even in Florida, California, and New York, you can find fairly affordable places if you're willing to look well away from any of the major urban cores. Even though those states' housing prices are skyrocketing, it's driven almost entirely by the intense desirability of the major coastal cities. The rural areas and the ex-industrial areas are a lot cheaper.

But that brings us back to the real problem - those places are a lot cheaper because people don't want to live there, and for the most part there's good reasons why people don't want to live there. A lot of the businesses that had a good reason to not be near cities have either automated away most of their manpower demands or transitioned to using cheap-and-disposable migrant labor instead, leaving behind blighted dying neighborhoods full of toxic waste and cranky retirees. And if they don't have any reason to not be near cities, it's attractive to locate near cities, where they have access to a large labor pool and extensive infrastructure.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 18:21

Freakazoid_: Jul 5, 2013; Buglord

Anecdotal, but some of my acquaintances and former work buddies seem to have caught on to the cheaper housing in the midwest/south and have been vocal about moving there. These are people who live in the seattle metropolitan areas. Only one of them made good on their move.

I get the desire to own a home, but I don't believe they are thinking this all the way through.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 19:20

Gangringo: Jul 22, 2007; In the first age, in the first battle, when the shadows first lengthened, one sat.

He chose the path of perpetual contentment.

Mooseontheloose posted:

I want to live near where I grew up, is that so hard to ask?!

I fell into that trap. I grew up in a neighborhood that was run down and cheap when I was a kid, but that attracted cool young artist people that made it cool which in turn attracted investors and yuppies so now the houses we rented for $300 a month in the 90s are pushing $1 million.

Bought way more house than I need but drat it if I don't love it here.

# ? Jan 30, 2024 19:21

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# ? May 20, 2024 17:38

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

On a per square foot basis, the cheapest one (Homewood, in PA) only increased 1.4% last year - lower than inflation.

However, when you google the name of the town one of the first things that comes up is how it was "destroyed by disinvestment when industry shut down in the 1970's and then the war on drugs," so there might be a specific reason for that extremely low median home value (~$30k).

Edit: It looks like almost all of them on the cheapest list have barely increased in price at all or even decreased when adjusted for inflation, but almost all of them are towns that started dying in the 1970's and 1980's because they were reliant on one specific industry that shrank or left and they never recovered - including the ironically named "Industry" in Indiana.

This is apparently Homewood, PA:

Although it doesn't seem to be completely run down, not sure what I'd do there other than commute to... Beaver Falls?

Main Paineframe posted:

They're basically not increasing at all, but it's not really right to talk about a single national baseline. A big part of the overall home pricing problem is that there's only really a handful of areas that most people actually want to live in. There's still vast chunks of America that are relatively cheap overall, but they're cheap because not all that many people really wants to live there. Even in California and Florida, there's huge shifts in prices depending on what part of the state you're looking.

Here's a national summary of home prices from the National Association of Realtors that clearly illustrates the problem:

While this map is purchase prices only, rents follow a fairly similar pattern. As you can see, there's still plenty of cheap homes available - as long as you're willing to live well away from a major urban area, and especially if you're willing to live in flyover country, the Midwest, or the deep South.

Even in Florida, California, and New York, you can find fairly affordable places if you're willing to look well away from any of the major urban cores. Even though those states' housing prices are skyrocketing, it's driven almost entirely by the intense desirability of the major coastal cities. The rural areas and the ex-industrial areas are a lot cheaper.

But that brings us back to the real problem - those places are a lot cheaper because people don't want to live there, and for the most part there's good reasons why people don't want to live there. A lot of the businesses that had a good reason to not be near cities have either automated away most of their manpower demands or transitioned to using cheap-and-disposable migrant labor instead, leaving behind blighted dying neighborhoods full of toxic waste and cranky retirees. And if they don't have any reason to not be near cities, it's attractive to locate near cities, where they have access to a large labor pool and extensive infrastructure.

Yeah it's the same everywhere, housing is cheap in the middle of nowhere where nobody wants to live because there's nothing to do (both work and like for fun) but the top cities are skyrocketing

# ? Jan 30, 2024 20:04

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