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jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Space Kablooey posted:

i was also, until i experimented 60 fps and i cant go back to 30 anymore

Same, but 120Hz

Not that my eyes can see anything higher than 24fps

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Livo
Dec 31, 2023
What's the technical reason why reflections in modern games tend to be trash apart from a few exceptions? Even if you have a high end Ray Tracing card & a game focusing heavily on lighting/reflections, they often don't look good at all. Did the change from forward to deferred renderers change things, or is it something else?

I understand RT is great for outdoor reflections and it's much better for outdoor lighting in general. Indoor reflections & lighting in modern games on the other hand, usually look like utter crap, with no character reflections unless you have a RT card (even then it can be quite wonky), missing/incorrect objects etc, compared to older games like SWAT 3, Max Payne 2, Unreal, Deus Ex, Metal Gear Solid 1/2. Many older games used the "Duplicate the room & character with reversed animations to fake it" trick, which still look pretty drat good for the most part. The common argument for re-using this trick is "No! It'll reduce performance if we do that for an indoor scene! To avoid this issue, we simply won't have any mirror reflections at all unless you have a Ray Tracing card!" but a) indoor geometry can be carefully placed by the level designer so you only have to duplicate a smallish room, which shouldn't be that demanding b) back in the 90s there was some performance dips with mirrors, but for the most part it wasn't a large performance drop and c) you still get large performance drops with mirrors on high end RT cards anyway, why is it suddenly a major issue now?

Aramis
Sep 22, 2009



Livo posted:

What's the technical reason why reflections in modern games tend to be trash apart from a few exceptions? Even if you have a high end Ray Tracing card & a game focusing heavily on lighting/reflections, they often don't look good at all. Did the change from forward to deferred renderers change things, or is it something else?

That's mostly because reflections used to only apply to a few well-placed gimmicky-ish elements of a scene. Nowadays, reflections are part of the core lighting system. Every surface reflects light in some way, shape, or form, but that doesn't need "true" reflections to look good. Because of this, you can now get the lovely reflections you are talking about for effectively free. Just set the material's roughness to 0 and metallicity to 100 and bam!

This makes the cost/benefit ratio of true reflections a much tougher sell than it used to be.

Same goes with transparency. Dithered transparency looks like absolute poo poo to my eyes, but I understand that it's practically free compared to blending in modern engines, so I tolerate it if it means a better framerate.

Aramis fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Feb 7, 2024

MSPain
Jul 14, 2006
higher (120+) framerates absolutely help in games like counterstrike. it's not even a matter of opinion

https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
compare 60 and 120fps here with motion blur off (assuming your monitor can do 120hz)

George
Nov 27, 2004

No love for your made-up things.
I get a lot of screen tearing these days.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

MSPain posted:

higher (120+) framerates absolutely help in games like counterstrike. it's not even a matter of opinion

https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
compare 60 and 120fps here with motion blur off (assuming your monitor can do 120hz)

this still isn't a comparison of how it makes clicking heads better this just shows that it looks better.

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
A tangled skein of bad opinions, the hottest takes, and the the world's most misinformed nonsense. Do not engage with me, it's useless, and better yet, put me on ignore.
Do people still play Counter-Strike? I thought that mod would have died off once Natural Selection became a thing.

hawowanlawow
Jul 27, 2009

credburn posted:

Do people still play Counter-Strike? I thought that mod would have died off once Natural Selection became a thing.

lol

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









galagazombie posted:

Realistic lighting is my nemesis. It’s the worst thing to ever happen to games. You know why “light” and “dark” are synonyms for “good” and “bad” respectively in literally every human culture that has ever existed? Because things not being fully lit and unshadowed loving sucks. You think Shakespeare performed his plays with “realistic lighting”? gently caress no he lit that stage up so everyone could see the drat actors. It’s a sad world we live in where N64 and PS1 games with their jaggy and muddled squares have better visibility than games made on hardware 100 times more powerful. And all simply because the former just lit each object in the way that made the game most fun, instead how the dumb lantern said it should be.

Shakespeare lived before electricity and performed his plays outside and during the day time so people could see them

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!

sebmojo posted:

Shakespeare lived before electricity and performed his plays outside and during the day time so people could see them

Exactly, even scenes that took place in dark castle dungeons at night.

MSPain
Jul 14, 2006

credburn posted:

Do people still play Counter-Strike? I thought that mod would have died off once Natural Selection became a thing.

counterstrike and its lovely spinoffs are wildly successful microtransaction fests while natural selection has already been relegated to obscurity

God is real. He hates us.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Disco Pope posted:

People shouldn't bother with pixilated retro game styles for modern games, because it doesn't look right if it's not on an actual CRT TV or monitor and kind of looks worse.

Lmao wrong. Modern pixel artists are making their pixel arts to look good on normal modern screens. People appreciate the sharpness and minimalism without the CRT smearing going on.

One day someone came up with that comparison gif of Dracula eyes with and without CRT display and a whole bunch of folks convinced themselves artists of the pass were very meticulously planning their art around these CRT limitations and that viewing them outside of CRT is "wrong."

Worst part of that comparison image is the non-CRT definitely looks better anyway.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

Khanstant posted:

One day someone came up with that comparison gif of Dracula eyes with and without CRT display and a whole bunch of folks convinced themselves artists of the pass were very meticulously planning their art around these CRT limitations and that viewing them outside of CRT is "wrong."

Worst part of that comparison image is the non-CRT definitely looks better anyway.

the funny thing about that dracula sprite is that it's traced from a high res piece of concept art where he doesn't have the horizontally glowing eyes that a CRT gives the impression of

Vakal
May 11, 2008

Mordor She Wrote
Nov 17, 2014

Disco Pope posted:

People shouldn't bother with pixilated retro game styles for modern games, because it doesn't look right if it's not on an actual CRT TV or monitor and kind of looks worse.


I think the real problem with pixel art is that people aren't making impressive looking pixel art, 99% of poo poo is just 9 pixel garbage that looks like Fez as opposed to something like Comix Zone or whatever

Mordor She Wrote
Nov 17, 2014

MSPain posted:

higher (120+) framerates absolutely help in games like counterstrike. it's not even a matter of opinion

https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
compare 60 and 120fps here with motion blur off (assuming your monitor can do 120hz)

I got a 144hz refresh monitor and my ability to snipe in Overwatch/CoD/TF2 increased to an insane degree.

Devils Affricate
Jan 22, 2010

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

this still isn't a comparison of how it makes clicking heads better this just shows that it looks better.

Which of those two baseballs do you think would be easier to click on? Most game engines receive input in the same main loop that they render frames in, so the precision in timing that's available to you is tied directly to the framerate. It's absolutely not just a visual difference.

Devils Affricate fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Feb 8, 2024

JollyBoyJohn
Feb 13, 2019

For Real!

credburn posted:

Do people still play Counter-Strike? I thought that mod would have died off once Natural Selection became a thing.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
Unpopular video game opinion:

Mechwarrior5 is better than Battletech (2018) in basically all ways that matter, and that's coming from a guy who didn't love either and was hoping for a MechCommander game (which was the entire point of Btech2018!).

MrQwerty
Apr 15, 2003

LOVE IS BEAUTIFUL
(づ ̄ ³ ̄)づ♥(‘∀’●)

Battletech 2018s point was to make a computerized recreation of the board game not make a new mechcommander

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
Yea, and it sucked. The TT minis are fun, the 2018 video game is not.

Btech'18 did such a boring effort at its job that a subsequent first-person-shooter did a better job of lance combat.

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!
Saying pixel graphics don’t look good is like saying 3D graphics don’t look good. It’s decades of different tech levels, art styles and talent. There is no way to seriously compare some indie puzzle game trying to ape an Commodore 64 with something like Blasphemous (which is gorgeous).

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

Serephina posted:

Unpopular video game opinion:

Mechwarrior5 is better than Battletech (2018) in basically all ways that matter, and that's coming from a guy who didn't love either and was hoping for a MechCommander game (which was the entire point of Btech2018!).

I feel the opposite of this, Battletech (with mods) is the best mech game I've ever played but MW5 is probably the worst. MW5 was so incredibly disappointing :(

I think your version of this is the popular version of the opinion though based on the way people on this forum post about them. Whole lotta people think Battletech is "boring minute to minute" which is true of the vanilla unmodded game and think MW5 is great despite the fact that it plays and feels like a unity asset flip except without the flipped assets.

I never liked the mechcommander games though

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Feb 8, 2024

Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

God drat this is sad.

William Henry Hairytaint
Oct 29, 2011



MrQwerty posted:

Battletech 2018s point was to make a computerized recreation of the board game not make a new mechcommander

It was fun but it wasn't what I wanted from it, which was basically Megamek with better graphics and UI. I have no idea why they couldn't stay faithful to tabletop.

The voice acting was also god awful.

Space Kablooey
May 6, 2009


My unpopular opinion is that the MechWarrior series should drop the mercenaries aspect of it and just make a straight up campaign again, like MechWarrior 3.

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
A tangled skein of bad opinions, the hottest takes, and the the world's most misinformed nonsense. Do not engage with me, it's useless, and better yet, put me on ignore.
Mechwarrior 3 was the last Mechwarrior I thought was good. 4 came out shortly after and I hated everything about it. They took away the cockpit, which I feel is integral to the experience, and made it into an extremely clunky third person shooter. What is even the point of a third-person shooter if you don't have a cover system?

SilvergunSuperman
Aug 7, 2010

I fuckin loved mw3.

From the cheesy/awesome intro I was hooked.

spaceblancmange
Apr 19, 2018

#essereFerrari

credburn posted:

Do people still play Counter-Strike? I thought that mod would have died off once Natural Selection became a thing.



looks like the answer is no

T3hRen3gade
Jun 7, 2007

Look in my eye,
what do you see?
Unpopular opinion: Base Wars was the best game Capcom ever made and the fact they haven't tried to remake it in over thirty years is an absolute travesty. Winning space baseball with murder robots was loving awesome please bring it back. :argh:

Barudak
May 7, 2007

spaceblancmange posted:

looks like the answer is no

Counter-Strike 2 is a free update to Counter-Strike: Global Operations, which itself was effectively Counter-Strike 3 so look its very confusing.

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

Apparently CS2 is just fluffed up CS:Go. When I played CS:Go it was just fluffed up CS: Source which was just fluffed up CS 1.6.

CS will keep going until heat death of the universe.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

deep dish peat moss posted:

I feel the opposite of this, Battletech (with mods) is the best mech game I've ever played but MW5 is probably the worst. MW5 was so incredibly disappointing :(

I think your version of this is the popular version of the opinion though based on the way people on this forum post about them. Whole lotta people think Battletech is "boring minute to minute" which is true of the vanilla unmodded game and think MW5 is great despite the fact that it plays and feels like a unity asset flip except without the flipped assets.

I never liked the mechcommander games though

I've heard pretty consistent praise on these forums for BT18, which is why I gave it so many drat chances. Also the bolded part gives me a good chuckle; had a bad purchase? No worries, just throw good money after bad, then use off-site modding to change everything about the game. See, it's good now, right?

----

I'm happy to continue the Battletech talk, and I'm glad someone else brought up MegaMek. To me, Battletech as a game roughly falls into two categories; the dry Type1 rules which is all about two human players having a duel of wits with weapon platforms trying to outflank each other, and 'everything else' which covers precombat mech customisation, gritty rules such as infantry crawling on mech legs to plant mines on them, asymmetric scenarios and campaigns, extended lore fluff, the whole shebang. MegaMek is all about the former, preserving the rules so we can have elegant pvp fights, while most of the commercial games lean more into the power fantasy and setting, with big stompy mechs wrecking their surroundings and running around with narrative mission objectives.

BT18 failed at the former; I'm sure someone out there bought the game for PvP purposes, but for the rest of us the single player missions sucked on both a strategic and tactical level. The computer players are hopeless in an even fight, so all lance vs lance fights ended up being "win the first fair fight, now do the same again as you're obviously still healthy and we don't know how to challenge you otherwise". Wasn't fun and got old real fast. And I'm not sure if getting grognardy with the fidelity of mech customization (that the mods claimed to offer) is gonna help that. The game also didn't do well with the setting and fun power fantasy stuff; I died a little inside every time I saw a mech miss his kick on a tank.

Meanwhile MW5 is stripped-down idiot-fest. The mech customization is offensively oversimplified, your lancemates are fully braindead (yes I know about weapon groupings to coach their behavior shush) and so the fights are just punching matches, and the inter-mission stuff is uh, not any better than Btech'18. BUT! It's fun. The little tanks and copters are a effective nuisance as they keep spawning in behind you to peck at you, yet die satisfyingly when you draw a bead, while the buildings lovingly crumble while you perform your warcrimes. The enemy lances spawn in seemingly infinite numbers, yet somehow that's still better than Bt18 since you don't actually have to kill them to complete the mission, quite the contrary you're mostly there for some other objective and the enemy lances are the local entertainment and clock to keep you moving. It works.

There's gotta be some sort of saying for this, like "Good execution more than makes up for poor theory", or something. MW5 is riddled with poor taste in mechanics but is still such a fun mech game that I wish I could mod in bird's-eye controls and issue called-shots and have my sloppy MechCommander3, while BT18 was never gonna be the deep combat simulator I think it implied itself to be. Just to be clear, I didn't think either of them was a great game, just that one set a lower bar and reached it more satisfyingly.

If any of that made any sense? Also sir this is a Wendy's yes I know

Serephina fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Feb 8, 2024

Junk
Dec 20, 2003

Listen to reason, man. Why make your job difficult?
i never really cared much for counterstrike but ive been playing cs2 when it dropped and its clicked with me better than any other version of the game

this is my unpopular opinion

MSPain
Jul 14, 2006
here's an unpopular opinion I formed when I was ten and can't seem to let go:

mario 64 has nothing in common with real mario games and, furthermore, it sucks rear end

Barudak
May 7, 2007

MSPain posted:

here's an unpopular opinion I formed when I was ten and can't seem to let go:

mario 64 has nothing in common with real mario games and, furthermore, it sucks rear end

Accurate though, real accurate

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

Nintendo couldn't even spring for the extra 5 to make Mario 69

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
A tangled skein of bad opinions, the hottest takes, and the the world's most misinformed nonsense. Do not engage with me, it's useless, and better yet, put me on ignore.

Barudak posted:

Counter-Strike 2 is a free update to Counter-Strike: Global Operations, which itself was effectively Counter-Strike 3 so look its very confusing.

Got it. Counter-Strike 4 is Counter-Strike 2.

Mr. Fix It
Oct 26, 2000

💀ayyy💀


i collected all 120 stars before the end of October 1996, so Mario 64 is always gonna have a place in my heart

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The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

All computer graphics are pixel graphics, actually.

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