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haveblue posted:In the second one a subway car full of New Yorkers promise they won't tell anyone about his secret identity when Doc Ock rips his mask off during a fight Did anyone actually know Peter Parker? But yeah, I guess no one was tempted to take a picture of his face and sell it.
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Feb 8, 2024 17:13
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The Raimi movies borrow a lot from early Spider-Man comics where things were more black and white morally. In those 60s comics you would be less likely to have someone trying to profit off of Spider-Man’s secret identity
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Feb 8, 2024 17:21
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Rappaport posted:Wouldn't the tentacles protect him? There are New York City bricks we're talking about here.
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Feb 8, 2024 17:39
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Byzantine posted:Tbf, it was 2004. Youtube didn't exist yet and people generally didn't walk around with cameras in their pockets. The cell phone I bought in early 2004 was a pretty cheap model and had a camera. But oh boy the pain of getting its postage stamp pictures off the phone and onto the internet.
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Feb 8, 2024 17:52
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Killer robot posted:The cell phone I bought in early 2004 was a pretty cheap model and had a camera. All you had to do was load up the photo posting site's WAP version, select the photo, and after only 15 minutes of uploading, your photo is online! Then at the end of the month you pay an extra $30 for all the bandwidth you used
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Feb 8, 2024 17:56
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Killer robot posted:The cell phone I bought in early 2004 was a pretty cheap model and had a camera. I forget if the camera was still complete dogshit by 2004, or if it had made it all the way up to 480p.
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Feb 8, 2024 18:02
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Eric Cantonese posted:Did anyone actually know Peter Parker? But yeah, I guess no one was tempted to take a picture of his face and sell it. Reminds me of the Justice League episode where Luthor bodyjacked the Flash and had no idea who the secret identity was
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Feb 8, 2024 18:07
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Byzantine posted:Tbf, it was 2004. Youtube didn't exist yet and people generally didn't walk around with cameras in their pockets. Presumably the movies are taking place before their release. I seem the Raimi movies as having big late 90s vibes.
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Feb 8, 2024 18:10
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Eric Cantonese posted:Did anyone actually know Peter Parker? But yeah, I guess no one was tempted to take a picture of his face and sell it. part of that is because in the early days of the comics, peter is like 16 and dumb as poo poo, kids dont think rationally, of course he thinks everyone would know him instantly if he lost his mask. that means more obviously if the villian is a family friend or whatever obviously. like obviously now, someone could figure it out because internet or etc. but in the 1960s through 90s, no one would know who the gently caress he was. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Feb 8, 2024 |
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Feb 8, 2024 18:12
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Reminds me of the Justice League episode where Luthor bodyjacked the Flash and had no idea who the secret identity was One of the funniest moments in that show's whole run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl9LltXH6fg
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Feb 8, 2024 18:13
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Barrel Cactaur posted:Doc Ock doesn't even wear a helmet, he could just get bricked at any time In the early comics Spider-Man would just thump him on the head once and he was out because he was just a regular dude with metal arms. It came back later because part of the reason he was dying was because he had so much trauma from fighting this superhuman dude all the time.
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Feb 8, 2024 18:14
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Barrel Cactaur posted:Doc Ock doesn't even wear a helmet, he could just get bricked at any time yeah. like some 1960s cop just plugs him in the head. i love that most of spidermans villians are just bank robbers with gimmicks.
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Feb 8, 2024 18:16
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Push El Burrito posted:In the early comics Spider-Man would just thump him on the head once and he was out because he was just a regular dude with metal arms. It came back later because part of the reason he was dying was because he had so much trauma from fighting this superhuman dude all the time. yeah. like why would you even be a regular criminal in any kinda of super hero universe. like do you think doc ock or the joker pays healthcare or even pays you well. like batmans gonna shatter my face when i shout and charge him.
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Feb 8, 2024 18:18
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Batman may break some of my bones, but he's not gonna shoot me like some loving cop would.
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Feb 8, 2024 18:24
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PeterWeller posted:Batman may break some of my bones, but he's not gonna shoot me like some loving cop would. yeah, also newer batman(and even old batman) actually did stuff for the community and like gave criminals real jobs and poo poo. the "evil facist batman" poo poo is from miller. I like batman drat it. Rip Kevin conroy.
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Feb 8, 2024 18:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, also newer batman(and even old batman) actually did stuff for the community and like gave criminals real jobs and poo poo. the "evil facist batman" poo poo is from miller. I like batman drat it. Rip Kevin conroy. Killer Croc tried to reform and there's a page of him being rejected from every interview possible As someone also going through the job hunt, I get why he stayed a monster cannibal for so long
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Feb 8, 2024 18:43
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Killer Croc tried to reform and there's a page of him being rejected from every interview possible thought slime(i think) did a very good video on batman and etc. it was a nice change of pace to the same lazy arguments. yeah thats shits bullshit. the company my mom worked for imploded because they trusted walmart and other big box stores. she ended up on her feet because of work connections but she was on workers comp for a month and had to do all the song and dance job search bullshit even when she doesnt need to anymore. gently caress that poo poo.
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Feb 8, 2024 18:46
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, also newer batman(and even old batman) actually did stuff for the community and like gave criminals real jobs and poo poo. the "evil facist batman" poo poo is from miller. I like batman drat it. Rip Kevin conroy. Every moment Bruce spent playing around in costume instead of funding social programs with his wealth is indulgent and wasted, and even "good" versions of batman beat up criminals and henchmen who are much more likely to be minorities and in poverty, just so he could get a hardon or whatever. ACAB includes Batman. Also he was still a multibillionaire, so he wasn't doing enough good.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:23
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Not every comic book for children is going to pass moral muster under every ideological framework.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:26
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Jaxyon posted:Every moment Bruce spent playing around in costume instead of funding social programs with his wealth is indulgent and wasted, and even "good" versions of batman beat up criminals and henchmen who are much more likely to be minorities and in poverty, just so he could get a hardon or whatever. Joker just stops in the middle of a massacre because Bruce Wayne sent him a stimulus check.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:28
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Push El Burrito posted:Joker just stops in the middle of a massacre because Bruce Wayne sent him a stimulus check. There's only a few supervillains and honestly they only exist in the comic to justify Bruce's proclivities. The vast majority of people he's beating the poo poo out of would probably benefit from social programs.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:32
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Jaxyon posted:Every moment Bruce spent playing around in costume instead of funding social programs with his wealth is indulgent and wasted, and even "good" versions of batman beat up criminals and henchmen who are much more likely to be minorities and in poverty, just so he could get a hardon or whatever. ... isn't this literally the basis of Jack Naper's argument in White Knight?
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Feb 8, 2024 19:34
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All Capes Are Bastards?
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Feb 8, 2024 19:34
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Jaxyon posted:Every moment Bruce spent playing around in costume instead of funding social programs with his wealth is indulgent and wasted, and even "good" versions of batman beat up criminals and henchmen who are much more likely to be minorities and in poverty, just so he could get a hardon or whatever. There are obviously parallels to real world issues and there are attempts to address it but it's also very clearly a comic book universe in which there are just really bad people that need to be stopped by superheroes. It's an absurd reading of the comics to hold Bruce Wayne/Batman to the same moral calculus as if the comic book universe he resides in is exactly the same as our own. It's silly.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:35
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Professor Beetus posted:There are obviously parallels to real world issues and there are attempts to address it but it's also very clearly a comic book universe in which there are just really bad people that need to be stopped by superheroes. It's an absurd reading of the comics to hold Bruce Wayne/Batman to the same moral calculus as if the comic book universe he resides in is exactly the same as our own. It's silly. this.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:38
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Jaxyon posted:Every moment Bruce spent playing around in costume instead of funding social programs with his wealth is indulgent and wasted, and even "good" versions of batman beat up criminals and henchmen who are much more likely to be minorities and in poverty, just so he could get a hardon or whatever. He's the kind of rich where he doesn't personally fund poo poo, he tells his people to set up and run programs. There's no trade off where every minute spent philanthopizing comes at the cost of a minute of Batmaning, or vice versa. Plus he's a near perfect genius who can totally set up the proper people and funding. Besides in a world with Superman, Firestorm, sundry other super powers, magic, and super tech, Bruce Wayne is way down on the list of guys not fully utilizing their assets to fix the world. Batman is poo poo in full isolation, but within the larger universe he's kind of not bad.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:42
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im pretty sure most of the Batman is bad stuff is all college students and early 20something nerds having baby's first serious analysis.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:44
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The comics have often implied that Bruce does fund social programs. It's just that comics rarely focus on that because funding a non-profit doesn't make for an action packed narrative. It's also a flaw of the serial medium that Batman can never fully fix Gotham/society, through violent or non-violent means, because that would end the comic. Edit: That's not to say that you can't or shouldn't criticize the comics through a political lens. But the focus should be on how the narrative is told and how it relates to broader society, not whether this impossibly rich, smart, and athletic fictional character would be ethical in the real world. glitchwraith fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Feb 8, 2024 |
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Feb 8, 2024 19:45
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Gyges posted:Besides in a world with Superman, Firestorm, sundry other super powers, magic, and super tech, Bruce Wayne is way down on the list of guys not fully utilizing their assets to fix the world. Batman is poo poo in full isolation, but within the larger universe he's kind of not bad. "Ahem, and what do you expect Superman to do on a JOURNALISTS salary? Especially for a dying newspaper?" 
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Feb 8, 2024 19:45
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Push El Burrito posted:Joker just stops in the middle of a massacre because Bruce Wayne sent him a stimulus check. Joker trying to stage some grandiose heist or attack and it all grinding to a halt because he can't get henchmen, what with all of his old crews being in decent jobs or school programs, would be a fun little story. "What do you MEAN, wearing clown makeup and being punched by an expert in human pain for 7 bucks/hour is no longer good enough, Jake? I got you started in this industry, you ungrateful moocher!"
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Feb 8, 2024 19:47
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No one wants to fight Batman anymore they all drive for Uber.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:48
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Randalor posted:"Ahem, and what do you expect Superman to do on a JOURNALISTS salary? Especially for a dying newspaper?" he could move his arms around in a circle really fast and at the specific and precise frequency of 60 htz.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:48
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Batman doesn't want to cure crime. He wants revenge on criminals for his parent's death. He's a bad person doing insane things. Also it is his fault that criminals keep getting released because he keeps loving up evidence with his vigilante bullshit
Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Feb 8, 2024 |
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Feb 8, 2024 19:50
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Sephyr posted:Joker trying to stage some grandiose heist or attack and it all grinding to a halt because he can't get henchmen, what with all of his old crews being in decent jobs or school programs, would be a fun little story. The cops dont shoot joker because he is white.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:52
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glitchwraith posted:The comics have often implied that Bruce does fund social programs. It's just that comics rarely focus on that because funding a non-profit doesn't make for an action packed narrative. It's also a flaw of the serial medium that Batman can never fully fix Gotham/society, through violent or non-violent means, because that would end the comic. Nah, they could fix Gotham and still have stories. Batman is in almost as many places at once as Wolverine anyway. But they're in the same situation as Marvel where all stories must be in a constant boomerang between new changes and flipping back to the status quo.
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Feb 8, 2024 19:55
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That's just the nature of comic books existing at the intersection of art and business. If you want to make a permanent change to the universe, or reach a moral conclusion that forecloses future storytelling, you can always do a limited series outside of continuity
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Feb 8, 2024 20:03
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Gyges posted:Nah, they could fix Gotham and still have stories. Batman is in almost as many places at once as Wolverine anyway. But they're in the same situation as Marvel where all stories must be in a constant boomerang between new changes and flipping back to the status quo. Ok, I'll bite. Gotham's corruption has been rooted out. Effective social programs have made poverty and major crimes rare to non-existent, and all super villains have been cured, reformed, or at least humanely separated from society. Gotham is in all senses of the word "fixed". What story do you tell now?
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Feb 8, 2024 20:08
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glitchwraith posted:Ok, I'll bite. Gotham's corruption has been rooted out. Effective social programs have made poverty and major crimes rare to non-existent, and all super villains have been cured, reformed, or at least humanely separated from society. Gotham is in all senses of the word "fixed". What story do you tell now? Batman and Catwoman cutting up Gotham's nightscene on powerdates, Bruce helping the Robins start their careers in other cities, the reformed crims catching up over a game of poker or catan. C'mon man use your own imagination, don't beg us to use yours for you.
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Feb 8, 2024 20:13
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glitchwraith posted:Ok, I'll bite. Gotham's corruption has been rooted out. Effective social programs have made poverty and major crimes rare to non-existent, and all super villains have been cured, reformed, or at least humanely separated from society. Gotham is in all senses of the word "fixed". What story do you tell now? Batman is also fighting intergalactic aliens, working with the Justice League, running one or more international teams, showing up in other cities, and sometimes running a global network of Batmen. Plus Gotham doesn't need to be a Utopia to be fixed, just upgraded from crumbling hellhole to maybe regular Superhero city. Flash's city isn't a hopeless pit of corruption after all.
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Feb 8, 2024 20:14
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Gyges posted:Nah, they could fix Gotham and still have stories. Batman is in almost as many places at once as Wolverine anyway. But they're in the same situation as Marvel where all stories must be in a constant boomerang between new changes and flipping back to the status quo. A broader view of this is that mainstream supers as a genre inherently requires the heroes to be serving the status quo because it's set in a world that roughly reflects the here and now and will be expected to still be in publication ten years from now and reflecting the "here and now" of 2034. Anti-gang superheroes can never really eliminate organized crime, science heroes can never bring their wonderous inventions to mass production, anti-authoritarian heroes can never really overthrow the corrupt systems they struggle against. Instead you have to have small victories over the threat of the day, or just stopping things from getting worse. Fortunately, good writers manage to sell that as still taking heroic efforts and justifying the heroes. There's also the related dilemma that traditionally supers are special people who are just better than everyone else in some way and act with even less accountability than real-world cops. It's really easy to make it super fascist, particularly if you don't take pains to wallpaper it with just how strong the hero's moral code and progressive values are. Batman is an intersection of both of these, and with the added complication that he's had as many different writers, alternate interpretations, and adaptations into other media as any other superhero. Batman exists in a whole lot of diffiller "pretty drat fascist actually" to full on Adam West "Gotham's not that bad except for gimmick villains and revolving door prisons." In between there are various weights of "he's a broken person whose main struggle is not to be another Arkham supervillain case, but does what good he can within that framework" to "Doing a lot more positive stuff behind the Batman act than even many fellow heroes understand." and how much of each depends on the writer.
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Feb 8, 2024 20:14
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